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Weed is not good for your heart, studies say

nms

Well-Known Member
We don't know the specifics in the sense you're talking about regarding how tobacco is harming people. The physical process by which it happens is not known. It is based on statistics. And in statistics you isolate variables and attribute a relationship between them. I did not describe a process neither for tobacco nor for weed because the human body is too complex.

Regardless, there are tons of proposed ways this happens, some even attempt to decypher a relationship between tobacco use and your lungs microbiome. This is just so you realize the depth of interactions that happen in your body.

Reliability of a statistical study relies on the samples taken and the ability to isolate from other variables generally some are comorbidities, other personal and medical related.

Had you any experience on the development of pharmaceuticals you'd figure in general statistics is how they're deemed effective or uneffective(ever since they're tested on animals) because it's not possible to exactly define the process by which they interact with an organism as complex as animals are. We just need to be able to recognize and properly evaluate symptoms. The rest is hypothesized in a very broad form generally trying to target processes we know.

This doesn't mean we have no clue as to how a given medicine works. We are aware generally aware of the general mechanics by which something works. For instance immunotherapy for cancer patients, a state of the art treatment that is at the top of the line of what we can do. We are aware of what antibodies are and how they connect to antigens in cancer cells causing white cells to attack them, but given the resulting complexity of interactions, and the unknown antigens involved, the effectiveness of such treatment is still small. This is due to lack of knowledge. So how do we know it is effective? We treat x patients and if we see reduced symptoms in a percentage of them, then that's the effectiveness of the treatment.

Not only is the measurement of effectiveness based on statistics but the side effects are also accounted in such form. This is why if you read the paper that comes with your medicine you'll see the side effects measures in a statistical form, generally in the form of the common, rare and very rare attributed to different scales:

Ibuprofen example:(https://www.hpra.ie/img/uploaded/swedocuments/PIL-2184772-20012017111614-636205077751693750.pdf)
  • stomach and intestinal ulcers, sometimes with bleeding and perforation, vomiting blood or have black tar-like stools (common: may affect up to 1 in 10 people)
  • severe flaking or peeling of the skin (very rare: may affect up to 1 in 10,000 people)

If you think it's possible to know how these happen, you're very mistaken. The human body is far too complex and we still find new details on how the most important processes in it work, let alone knowing the full extent of any external interaction.

If I am wrong, then link to me an article that shows the exact effects by which tobacco smoke harms your lungs. (please take your time to research, because you'll find many proposed ways in many different generally inconclusive or highly targeted articles).

Still we have no doubts that tobacco harms your lungs. That is because we have statistical evidence. You can ignore it, but it's measurable. Does it mean you'll be on the unlucky side of the balance? No, but it means you have an higher risk of being there than a non consumer. Risk does not mean it will happen, people still make money off casinos, but casinos are still profitable. They work based on risk assessment. On the big picture they always win.

Science is not made of absolutes, it builds nothing but a model with predictive value for our reality. That model is not absolute nor is it made to endure dualisms, it's just a more or less accurate representation that allows us to predict things within it's context. No model is free of error(uncertainty). Luckily through repeated experimentation we can get an idea of what that error is so we can achieve a reliable model of reality.
 
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Shadooz

Well-Known Member
As what matters are the final effects, we don't really care if knowledge comes from statistical feedbacks or micro process understandings.
The difference will only affect the interaction that could occured by combination with other drugs/ or particular diseases ("orpheline" or not).
But again, most of those interactions will be define with feedbacks, and maybe then clear understanding.

And as we said feedbacks for cannabis are relevant enough, due to her time of presence. It's not methamphetamine or anything similar...
 
Shadooz,

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
@nms ibruphrophen blocks Cox 1 and why it is toxic ... a new formula that targeted cox 2 was required so as not to be so toxic... that is how tobacco harms too, a cox block bronchorestrictor

@Shadooz so far the only issue with cannabis and the heart is how it interacts with other medications the person may be on that the doc is prescribing at that moment in time ... and that is how the " bad " part in the plant is viewed via docs who cannot control a person who wants plants too along with their meds ... the risk takers the open minders
 
C No Ego,
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nms

Well-Known Member
@C No Ego You make such a complex world sound so simple that I am left without words to argue against you. The effort I have to put in any of my posts is too much to receive such feedback. I wish I had such certainties, but unfortunately I have to accept that I don't know nearly enough, nor do I have access to the knowledge to do so, despite a master's on the specific area. :lol: :D
 

AMiA

Well-Known Member
For anyone intrested how a 62 year old is doing,here it is.
Started 2 days ago by NOT vape any Indica before bedtime,which i have done a couple of years now whothout a break except for 3 weeks in hospital break due to a bicycle accident.

First night as alot of Meditation,downloaded some guided go-to-sleep files,found one that was "sort"of okey..after that i actually fell a slepp,but only for about 1 hour.Turned on some slow go-to-sleep piano music,9 hours of it ;-).Went to trey to sleep again,1-2 hours of vivid dreams,more vivid than usuall,woke and toilett time..tossing and turning every 2 hours..at 05.00 i had enough.
But i felt proud of myself that i've abstained from even 1 little toke the first night.More of meditation and breathing excercises during the day,prepping for night 2.

Last night,vivid dreams again,no wakeing up due to cottonmounth syndrome,ie not drinking water during the night,so only needed to go to toilett once insted maybe of 2..Meditation now done from someone native in my own language,i'm Skadinavian..two times 18 min,pianomusic on again,went to sleep but already now sleping much better,not as good as i wanted it to be but still 50% better then the first night.Feeling great this morning,except yesterday i tripped walking my puppy.so my knee is in alot of pain today..other then that i'm very happy of me beeing able to restrain myself from using my sleeping aid..Indica..even if i only use 0.1gram.

So if you want me to continue my progress,give me some love;-)i need your help too guys and girls,okey.If you are NOT intrested,well give me the boot;-)tell me to f***off..Take care brothers and sisters..Moderation is the key..Sorry not spellchecked.;-)
 

arb

Semi shaved ape
For anyone intrested how a 62 year old is doing,here it is.
Started 2 days ago by NOT vape any Indica before bedtime,which i have done a couple of years now whothout a break except for 3 weeks in hospital break due to a bicycle accident.

First night as alot of Meditation,downloaded some guided go-to-sleep files,found one that was "sort"of okey..after that i actually fell a slepp,but only for about 1 hour.Turned on some slow go-to-sleep piano music,9 hours of it ;-).Went to trey to sleep again,1-2 hours of vivid dreams,more vivid than usuall,woke and toilett time..tossing and turning every 2 hours..at 05.00 i had enough.
But i felt proud of myself that i've abstained from even 1 little toke the first night.More of meditation and breathing excercises during the day,prepping for night 2.

Last night,vivid dreams again,no wakeing up due to cottonmounth syndrome,ie not drinking water during the night,so only needed to go to toilett once insted maybe of 2..Meditation now done from someone native in my own language,i'm Skadinavian..two times 18 min,pianomusic on again,went to sleep but already now sleping much better,not as good as i wanted it to be but still 50% better then the first night.Feeling great this morning,except yesterday i tripped walking my puppy.so my knee is in alot of pain today..other then that i'm very happy of me beeing able to restrain myself from using my sleeping aid..Indica..even if i only use 0.1gram.

So if you want me to continue my progress,give me some love;-)i need your help too guys and girls,okey.If you are NOT intrested,well give me the boot;-)tell me to f***off..Take care brothers and sisters..Moderation is the key..Sorry not spellchecked.;-)
I had the craziest dreams when I took a break for some medical studies.
Very vivid and detailed which I was able to remember.
Normally no dreams at all I can recollect in the morning.
Also felt like my big toe nails were being tugged up which was.......horrible.
No pain just irritation of the mind which is harder for me to sleep with.
I will definitely give you some love and encourage you to see what happens.
🐈
 

nms

Well-Known Member
@AMiA I'm definitely interested, just take it easy. It generally takes me one month and a half before feeling clean(being completely fine not consuming at all) enough that I have to manually convince myself that it is worth it to consume again in a similar fashion to how I had to convince myself to stop consuming in the first place:D . It takes less than two weeks of daily usage(once a day) to become hooked again and reverse the situation. As time goes on consuming it's almost impossible to resist the urge to increase dosage or do more than one session a day, automatic thoughts start coming to mind as if trying to convince me to do it :D .

Recently I have been like month in two months out and the first/second weeks after stopping are filled with the craziest of dreams you never thought you could pop out of your head. It's also very hard to sleep, I get mood swings and motivation is hit and miss. After becoming familiar with the symptoms(stopping a couple times) you get used to it and can consciously avoid some of the symptoms. I also usually get a headache on day 1, generally control it with paracetamol. Craving gradually wears off in the first month.

I think most important thing for you is to actually sleep properly and don't make any sudden changes, if you want to cut down do it really slowly. One of most important things for being healthy is good sleep, a minimum of 7 hours is generally agreed upon and less than that has drastic effects particularly on the immune system(such as lower white cell count in the blood). Even one day lacking sleep can cause enough harm and as we age it gets harder to maintain proper sleep even without consuming anything that messes with it.
 
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AMiA

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the support nms :-)

First night was really hard to avoid taking a pupp just to stop tussing and turning in the bed,atleast this time i won;-)No headache,maybe a bit tired,but that's pretty much it..ehh well my hot temper flared up just a bit..but i could see in my friend thinking ..what's up with him today...puppy had take the blame😊I've done meditation before and found it working,really don't know why i stopped..but i'm on that meditation track again and it helps.
-Yes,i need 7-8 hours of good slepp to feel gooooood;-)They say that the older you get the LESS sleep you need,well i don't think i ever will be satisfyed whith less..

How do you cut down from 0.1 of mids..Well i try to abstain instead..time will tell..reason i don't feel i want to be hooked on anything,i want to be my own Master,that's it.

Jesus-when i see vids on people and they missuse this herb/drug i just shake my head..dabbing well seeing U-Tube vids totally destroing themself whils people just stand beside and laugh..not my cup tea.And seeing people,young peole here on this Forum just don't think it's anything else then harmless as candy..shake my head..not good.And people hiding behind statments like..it's not dagerous,it's only herb..try blackpepper eat it,overdo it,you see what will happen whith your stomach ;-)As i said before..moderation is the key..you be young or old like me,moderation please..That said,been ther done that.

So dear friends,just take care,STOP..THINK..ACT..were are you in life..try to use and not missuse,that's it..and maybe not that easy.Anyway,goodluck..whatever your choice my be..to be continue..Wish me goodluck for day 3;-)
 

Shadooz

Well-Known Member
Withdrowal must not be brutal, so will say take a little sip for tonight. Keep that 3 days schedule for at least a week or two. (2 night without, 1 night with).

And then reduce for when u think it will be beneficial, as painfull days, or mindfull/stressfull...

Good luck, and also, as u like meditation, try to master lucid dream now ;)
 

nms

Well-Known Member
I believe over indulging on ocasion has its perks as well though, at least if your lifestyle allows for it. There is a time and place for everything.

In the end life has to be enjoyed, remembering that despite everything no matter what goals you achieve, there is a new 'now what' the following day.

Sometimes the value of things doesn't lie in how long they last, but in the intensity at which they happen. It is up to us to decide how to tread that balance for the most enjoyable ride.

One thing I don't like about addictions though is that to an unpredictable extent they take motivation away from exploring what you really like and enjoy. They tend to act as a shortcut to achieve a state of well being you'd otherwise need to naturally find.
 
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AMiA

Well-Known Member
God afternoon from Skandinavia !

Well,last night around 21.00,usuall bedtime for me,i was not feeling tired at all,but went to bed to do some Meditation for 30-40-min.
Fell alseep alright but woke up after 3.5 hours..wanted to take a sip or two from my vape..but instead i got up and took a cold shower,shaved and went to bed again.Vivid dreams again,nothing bad..slept until 06.00..toilett time..felt sleepy,went back to bed and woke up 07.30...No vaping and good sleep..i'm happy but not my knee,swollen and not feeling good...other than that i feel stronger the ever that i will keep on staying away from vaping.

Now time for late lunch..and after that some deep breathing excercises/meditation...:-)

Have a blessed day everyone.
 
AMiA,
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Shadooz

Well-Known Member
@AMiA as you've described your withdrowal, u seems not in dependency (no sleep issues, or normal for your age), nor addiction (as it was only 0.1 before sleep).
So your usage was already good, and if it helps you with knee pain and deeper sleep, won't throw it away.
Enjoy (more) some days, just not every days ;)
 
Shadooz,

AMiA

Well-Known Member
Shadooz,i agree whith what you said..But i have 4 years ogo gone thrue the worst withdrawals ever.But i was smoking maybe 0.5 before bed then.2 weeks of nightweats,soking wet..had to change my t-shirt maybe 2-3 times a night..had to go to the ER twice from really bad anxiety attacks..after that i tryed to stop but chould not..instead i had a plan that i would ONLY do 0.1/night.That was around 4 years ago..now i don't suffer any of the things i mention above.

But i can say that breating excercises/prayer/thanfull meditation WORKS.atleast for me.


Last night..i did the same a before,breating excercises/prayer/thanfull meditation..for maybe 30 min,and after that i had the 9 hours of slow Piano music..Toilett visit at 04.15,back to bed,woke up 05.00..05.30..my mornings prayers..thankfull and greatfull for giving me the power and motivation for me to have yet another good nights slepp..knee very painfull when put weight on/walking/stairs...I'm very happy man now,i know i can reach my endgoal..FULL S T O P..maybe not forever but for some time atleast.And who knows i might relaps cause i like the growing and beeing abel to enyoy my own 100% fully Organic Canna ;-)Acually,i like more growing the using it..

Take care everyone out there..God bless..:-)
 
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AMiA,

AMiA

Well-Known Member
I like growing more then smoking for sure..Had 13 plants going under 800W led..Vegged 2 month,and until yesterday in preflower,all 100% Organic,everything looked very nice....BUT..

Have now not used anything at all for a good week or so,sleep is so and so,some night good some not so good,but i'm sticking whith my new weed..Meditation,Prayers and trying to be mindfull in my daly life,and it seems to work,atleast for now.But i know weaknesses,so yersterday i cut EVERYTHING DOWN and threw it in the bin.I started my Medical Weekjourney when i was 46,and i just had enough..yesterday i quit for (i hope)for good.Taked to my wife this morning and told her everything..we were both happy(er).I've been on both sides,the good and the bad..but now i hope it's the right time to say bye bye..When i look back i know i haven't been totallu honest whith myself and my use,neither for my wife or myself..The world we live in now is a world that i want to face head on,not in a daze trying to hide from reality..So so sad to see how people hide behind diffrent "drugs"just to cope whith life.-Yes,it's up to everyone to choose their own journey /way in life,mine was to STOP my CB use now..i on a "new"and diffrent louney now.More of Meditation,Prayers and Thanfullness for who and what "state"of mind i want to face the positive/Negative things in my life..i'm sure it's going to be "painfull"at times..but i'm done,atleast i feel so now.Same was when i quit wet tobaco 10 years ago,time was right,made a plan and stuck whith it..never looked back..used the wet tobaco for around 30 years..To have a plan is number uno to be sucsessfull in everything in life,right..So i will end this rant..by thanking everyone here on the Forum,wish each and everyone all good in their lifes..Thanks for reading and thanks for the replyes guys and girls..one love..God bless you all.:-)
 

Shadooz

Well-Known Member
You contradict yourself, taking that moderation not moderatly. I Hope that radical change will help you enjoy more. But it's always sad to hear all those girls end in the bin. When there is cbd only strains or even other plants (less potent). If you need her one day, won't forget about her..
 
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Green Kiwi

Well-Known Member
can we go back to the topic please.
Eventhough I don't feel/think at all that weed is bad for the hart, I did find it an interesting tread.:peace::leaf:.
 
Green Kiwi,
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AMiA

Well-Known Member
You contradict yourself, taking that moderarion not moderatly. I Hope that radical change will help you enjoy more. But it's always sad to hear all those girls end in the bin. When there is cbd only strains or even other plants (less potent). If you need her one day, won't forget about her..
Like i said...have not been totally honest whith myself..i can see that now.But thank you for pointing that out...
 
AMiA,

AMiA

Well-Known Member
Like i said...have not been totally honest whith myself..i can see that now.But thank you for pointing that out...
..mostly CBD..had two SSH too..but atleast now i can give my struggling stepdaughter some "leftover money when my electicbill is less ;-The only "girls i have now is her and my wife ;-
 
AMiA,

arb

Semi shaved ape
..mostly CBD..had two SSH too..but atleast now i can give my struggling stepdaughter some "leftover money when my electicbill is less ;-The only "girls i have now is her and my wife ;-
How did you type that with your hands on your hips?
😉
 
arb,

nms

Well-Known Member
I like growing more then smoking for sure..Had 13 plants going under 800W led..Vegged 2 month,and until yesterday in preflower,all 100% Organic,everything looked very nice....BUT..

Have now not used anything at all for a good week or so,sleep is so and so,some night good some not so good,but i'm sticking whith my new weed..Meditation,Prayers and trying to be mindfull in my daly life,and it seems to work,atleast for now.But i know weaknesses,so yersterday i cut EVERYTHING DOWN and threw it in the bin.I started my Medical Weekjourney when i was 46,and i just had enough..yesterday i quit for (i hope)for good.Taked to my wife this morning and told her everything..we were both happy(er).I've been on both sides,the good and the bad..but now i hope it's the right time to say bye bye..When i look back i know i haven't been totallu honest whith myself and my use,neither for my wife or myself..The world we live in now is a world that i want to face head on,not in a daze trying to hide from reality..So so sad to see how people hide behind diffrent "drugs"just to cope whith life.-Yes,it's up to everyone to choose their own journey /way in life,mine was to STOP my CB use now..i on a "new"and diffrent louney now.More of Meditation,Prayers and Thanfullness for who and what "state"of mind i want to face the positive/Negative things in my life..i'm sure it's going to be "painfull"at times..but i'm done,atleast i feel so now.Same was when i quit wet tobaco 10 years ago,time was right,made a plan and stuck whith it..never looked back..used the wet tobaco for around 30 years..To have a plan is number uno to be sucsessfull in everything in life,right..So i will end this rant..by thanking everyone here on the Forum,wish each and everyone all good in their lifes..Thanks for reading and thanks for the replyes guys and girls..one love..God bless you all.:-)
Sounds like you have good reasons to stop using it and took notice it can easily steal your life by draining motivation from other things. It's easy to forget how huge of a cheat it is to just feel good on demand, when you'd have to do things that'd come along a journey of discovering yourself to achieve the same result. That's the power of drugs, any drug to be honest, but the softer ones in a way are the easiest ones to build dependence on because you don't immediately feel physically ill. As I keep saying, moderation is key. This doesn't mean daily consumption to me, nor does it mean every single month or routinely. I know that if I don't use it for more than one week every one or two months, and use it for fun, not to fix how I may feel, I find no such side effects. As stated many times, it's addictive, so it needs a strong mindset to not go down the rabbit hole.

I find the most honest approach, for most people is to not be afraid to use it like you would a glass of wine in the occasional event in a social situation. It's fun sometimes. All the time, it becomes your life. And that, is not for everyone at any time, and for sure isn't for anyone all the time. I still believe there are periods of life for all kinds of consumption though, but it needs to fit what your life is like at any given time.

When I was a student though, none of these rules applied :D, except of course the basis of life: "No sidetracking of your main goals".
 
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AMiA

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you have good reasons to stop using it and took notice it can easily steal your life by draining motivation from other things. It's easy to forget how huge of a cheat it is to just feel good on demand, when you'd have to do things that'd come along a journey of discovering yourself to achieve the same result. That's the power of drugs, any drug to be honest, but the softer ones in a way are the easiest ones to build dependence on because you don't immediately feel physically ill. As I keep saying, moderation is key. This doesn't mean daily consumption to me, nor does it mean every single month or routinely. I know that if I don't use it for more than one week every one or two months, and use it for fun, not to fix how I may feel, I find no such side effects. As stated many times, it's addictive, so it needs a strong mindset to not go down the rabbit hole.

I find the most honest approach, for most people is to not be afraid to use it like you would a glass of wine in the occasional event in a social situation. It's fun sometimes. All the time, it becomes your life. And that, is not for everyone at any time, and for sure isn't for anyone all the time. I still believe there are periods of life for all kinds of consumption though, but it needs to fit what your life is like at any given time.

When I was a student though, none of these rules applied :D, except of course the basis of life: "No sidetracking of your main goals".
Nms,thank you for your post and understanding,like me,when it comes to any "drug"moderation is the key,i totally agree in everything said in your post.I knew i'm not alone,but people/users hide behind Cannabis and their use.When young,yes i overdid it to but then it was alkohol..same same but diffrent right;-
Tank for your thoughfull post,be avare,be moderat and check yourself now and then,comsumptions wise.

I can say that i feel more"fresh" and the biggest postitives from stopping...no more waking up and my mouth was like a dessert...water please..that is no more for me..ie..sleep is better whitout having to go to bathroom maybe two times /night.Dreams are mostly good,no nightmares..just alot of dreams...good ones.

Take care NMS:):wave:
 
AMiA,

Solomon

Talk to the Beard
Cannabis is not safe, it makes you vulnerable to COVAIDS and that's pure science fact

According to who?

There are actually several studies going on right now showing cannabis as a potential treatment for COVID-19 (not sure what "covaids" is). You might be referring to early statistical studies (not lab study) showing a correlation between VAPING and COVID - but that was E-CIGS and NOT cannabis


 
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