Vleaf Go: on-demand convection herb vaporizer!

OF

Well-Known Member
Hey all! New VLeaf go user - can already tell I'm going to like this thing once I get more comfortable with it. Have combusted my last two bowls on red (after stiring) - any thoughts on this?

Also, this whole silcone/basket screen thing is annoying already (could also be due to how I'm packing it) I know DDave has replacement screens for this, but any other tips/tricks for more seasoned Go users?

Thanks!

Two suggestions. First lower the heat until you get more control. I use green very successfully unless the battery is nearly spent. This is convection, not conduction. Most vapes claiming convection aren't, and those that claim 'hybrid' are definitely not. If the vape in question has a (digital) temperature display it's convection no matter what the box says. Prior experience with most vapes isn't useful here.

Learn to gauge the vaping on taste/production as you go. This vape is not going to do it all for you, it'll let you get in just as deep as you want.

Secondly, pay careful attention to any herb or other debris above the oven rim when loading. Unless it's really dirty with concentrate and gets 'glued' to the oven when hot, it's debris in that wedge shaped gap between plastic and SS that jams the screen in and lets it pull out of the rubber piece above it. It can work very well (or they'd never have built it that way?).

Congratulations, good buy, you're on the way to better times ahead.

OF
 
Two suggestions. First lower the heat until you get more control. I use green very successfully unless the battery is nearly spent. This is convection, not conduction. Most vapes claiming convection aren't, and those that claim 'hybrid' are definitely not. If the vape in question has a (digital) temperature display it's convection no matter what the box says. Prior experience with most vapes isn't useful here.

Learn to gauge the vaping on taste/production as you go. This vape is not going to do it all for you, it'll let you get in just as deep as you want.

Secondly, pay careful attention to any herb or other debris above the oven rim when loading. Unless it's really dirty with concentrate and gets 'glued' to the oven when hot, it's debris in that wedge shaped gap between plastic and SS that jams the screen in and lets it pull out of the rubber piece above it. It can work very well (or they'd never have built it that way?).

Congratulations, good buy, you're on the way to better times ahead.

OF


Thank you for the excellent reply! Much appreciated.
 

mccringleberry

Well-Known Member
Can't say I am impressed with this thing at all. With how hot it gets, I can't find myself using it. It also had a funny taste(maybe burn off?).
Got the VleaF Go and Ambit in the mail yesterday - pretty impressed!
Ok, this is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. Is it or is it not an impressive vape? Lol.

Most vapes claiming convection aren't, and those that claim 'hybrid' are definitely not.
Can you elaborate on the hybrid part? That makes absolutely no sense to me. You're saying there's no such thing as hybrid heating? Then what is the Mighty/Crafty/Arizer Air/Fury doing? They all claim hybrid and we have evidence that they are hybrids.
 
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mccringleberry,
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OF

Well-Known Member
Can you elaborate on the hybrid part? That makes absolutely no sense to me. You're saying there's no such thing as hybrid heating? Then what is the Mighty/Crafty/Arizer Air/Fury doing? They all claim hybrid and we have evidence that they are hybrids.

Sure. From a scientific POV (not a marketing one.....), there can be no such animal. That's not how Thermodynamics works. 'Follow the heat'.

In a convection vape, super heated air enters the load at substantially higher than 'magic temperature' and cools as it gives up heat energy to the load (warming it and eventually making vapor as it gets near 390F). IIRC the maker claims something like 700F on low? This is, however, not a fixed reading since the harder you pull, the cooler it gets? With no flow you can see a glow in the heater that indicates something like 1300F. The key is the hottest thing in the vape is quite hot. It has to be to heat the air to hundreds of degree hotter going in than coming out?

This means unless you sense the actual air temperature somehow, and also the flow rate, it's impossible to display the actual delivered temperature? Regulation to a fixed temperature is also just not possible. Unless you can foretell the future, of course. If the vape has such a feature like display of working temperature or temperature regulation, it can't be Convection based.

With conduction, OTOH, the hottest part is the cup/oven body. Everything has to be cooler to satisfy Thermodynamics. There is no way to heat at substantially hotter, nor any way to regulate the effect of the super heated air. If you did something clever, like put a second heater in running at a higher temperature to heat the air to several hundred degrees above 'magic temperature' (which nobody does?) before introducing the air to the already preheated (by conduction) load you'd get instant combustion..... Every time. Them's the rules.

Many of the sellers who claim Hybrid technology are using more preheating of incoming air, but as long as that air is below 390 or so it's simply preheated air, it makes no vapor! It simply 'robs less heat from the load than otherwise it would. Again, to produce vapor it needs to be hundreds of degrees hotter than it can possibly be if the hottest part of the heater system is much cooler than that. That's the way heat really works, 'flows from hot to cold'?

Heat soaks are a good clue. If the vape benefits from them it's because extra time allows more heat to conduct in to replace that lost from the previous hit. If, OTOH, a longer pause between hits lessens production on the following hit it's a Convection effect, the load having cooled off due to no conduction in but rather out of the load, the load is cooling. This is heat that the heated airflow must replace before further heating and vapor production can happen. Pauses in Conduction mean less, not more, vapor immediately available on the next hit. One or the other?

Claiming Hybrid technology no doubt scores big points in vape marketing, folks take it at face value as a positive feature and lay their money down. And under the tough and tumble rules of marketing ('first liar don't stand a chance'....), once one maker claims it, the rest are under serious pressure to jump on or lose sales. The Suits can be depended on for such things, it's their job? But doing so and insisting it's really happening will get you flunked out of a serious Physics class in short order. It's not only not happening in real world vapes, it can not. Follow the heat......that's what Thermodynamics is all about.

Please, if you will, tell me what's behind "we have evidence that they are hybrids". What is this evidence, and what do you believe is behind it? TIA

Sorry to ramble, but you asked.....

Regards to all.

OF
 

mccringleberry

Well-Known Member
@OF so in other words, all Storz & Bickel vaporizers are pure conduction. The Arizers are pure conduction. The Fury lineup is pure conduction.
You also state that most vapes claiming pure convection aren't. That would mean that the Tinymight, Firefly, Splinter, Tubo Evic, and Milaana are NOT pure convection, they're actually hybrids, right? And last but not least, the VLeaf go is also a hybrid? Man, that's gonna ruffle some feathers. Lol

So basically, a torch powered pass through vape like the Sticky Brick, or equivalent, is the only pure convection design out there, because that's the only one that allows moving air to get hot enough to vaporize the load via air only. And the advertisers of all these other vapes I just mentioned are deceiving us for marketing purposes... am I understanding your points correctly? I'm not trying to be contentious... I genuinely just want the real info. I don't have an emotional stake in the conduction vs convection game like some others do. It's just a fascinating topic to me.

back on topic, you're saying the VLeaf go is a hybrid?
 
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mccringleberry,
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OF

Well-Known Member
back on topic, you're saying the VLeaf go is a hybrid?

No, there is no such thing is 'hybrid'. Including Go. Go really is convection (as you see in the title of the thread, and in the discussion here). No practical conduction contribution (it cools in a pause, not recovers heat). All the conduction going on is heat conduction OUT of the load, not in. I can't speak to some/many of the vapes you mention since I don't own/use them but they too must follow the same rules. But, yes, Solo is conduction (only), we had a very long debate on the point somewhere around here, lots of sincere folks held up thermocouple measurements as 'proof'. It turned out to be instrumentation error based on not understanding how T/Cs work. A fairly common oversight, really.

"Pure" conduction makes no sense, really. Since there is no such thing as 'conduction with some convection' in the real (scientific) world applied to heating our loads to make vapor. Heat enters the load by one way or the other by design. Following the rules of Thermodynamics.

Marketing claims, are of course, a different matter. Believe what you want, but if you want to follow proven principles.......

So you really don't have any "evidence that they are hybrids" to offer? I didn't really think so, kind of reassured actually, such evidence would stand hundreds of years of Science on it's head I'd think. Vapes would be a strange place indeed to discover it. It started with Boyle and Hooke and was finally codified by Carnot after Joule added his insights, once atomic theory finally 'took hold'. That's why it's now called a "Law", it's been considered for so long that scholars don't dispute it?

Here's a fun thing to consider, convection is a misnomer anyway.......it really, at a molecular level, is conduction. It just involves a 'working fluid' (air or water, typically) that moves bringing (or removing) heat from the area. The heat (change in vibration of the molecules) happens by atom to atom contract still (near field electromagnetics really, FWIW, the atoms don't really touch?). A Professor I had many many years back quipped 'we had to invent convection so Engineers could deal with it..... Radiation is, of course something entirely different. I only know of one vape (Bender) that works this way.

Fun stuff, even if hard to follow.

As the Bard said, "a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet".

Regards to all.

OF
 
OF,

mccringleberry

Well-Known Member
So you really don't have any "evidence that they are hybrids" to offer? I didn't really think so, kind of reassured actually, such evidence would stand hundreds of years of Science on it's head I'd think.
Fill a Fury 2 glass mouthpiece with ground herb, turn the unit on, crank the heat it up as high as it will go and walk away. After a few minutes the top of the load nearest the heater is brown. The other side of the load will still be mostly green. If that's not hybrid heating, what is? Even if you're right and that's happening due to conduction, or lack thereof from the glass, the bottom line is you're not extracting the rest of the load until you take a draw. At that point, is the draw toasting the rest of the load from hot air, or hot glass?
I know you'd like to say, 'well, if you leave the unused F2 chamber heating at that temp forever, eventually the entire load will slow-roast due to conduction.' Ok, but that doesn't have anything to do with the question which is, does your draw toast the rest of the load via hot air, or hot glass? If the glass chamber is going to take 5 minutes to spend the entire load with conduction, can you prove that the same conduction is the process that's roasting the load during a few initial draws over the course of the first 45 seconds? Have you measured the before and after temps of the glass during the course of 2 hits? The glass is going to take some time to reach those temps high enough to roast the entire 0.06 to the center. We can talk a big game about thermodynamics, but the essence of the scientific method is for you to accurately measure the temp of the glass when someone uses the unit from a cold start and is getting visible vapor while taking draws at what the Fury calls 325F, 40 seconds after they turned it on.. Have you?
 
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mccringleberry,

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
We've had a lot of discussion on the topic of hybrid vaporizers over the years and it usually derails the thread. Let's not continue the topic in this thread too. :horse:

If anyone wants to comment about whether hybrid vapes exist,
they do
please take it to this thread instead.

Thanks.

:peace:
 

someTooL

Well-Known Member
Ok, this is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. Is it or is it not an impressive vape? Lol.
Well since the other question was responded to :science:, I’ll tackle this one.

Yes, to me this is a very impressive purchase. Small micro dosing, nice battery life so far with quick charging (3-4Loads), little maintenance other then cleaning the screen and bowl, use direct or in a jhook/water pipe, entry price point. I only use the green setting on demand and have not once walked away without being impressed when I dumped the load.

My only con would be the vapor path. But that’s just my preference. I lean towards all glass/SS/Ti materials.

Oh yeah, forgot to add that it looks like a marital aid. :hmm:
 

vapviking

Old and In the Way
Also, this whole silcone/basket screen thing is annoying already (could also be due to how I'm packing it) I know DDave has replacement screens for this, but any other tips/tricks for more seasoned Go users?
The Ddave's screens help considerably (as does not over-loading).
I also find it helpful, while placing the cap on the unit, to bring it down straight in line with the body -- using the poker end as a guide onto its' slot.

When the cap is brought down askew, the danger is that the funnel end of the unit might push sideways on and dislodge the silicone tube that holds the screen.
 

Spelaeus

Well-Known Member
Just got mine yesterday. If I pull out slow and long as I possibly can, I actually got some pretty good vapor off of this thing and can kill a bowl in a few hits. But if I speed up how fast I'm pulling whatsoever, I'll barely get any vapor whatsoever.


Is this normal? If it is, that's fine. It works well enough with the right technique. But from other reviews, I'm a little surprised.

For the record, this is on red and I'm definitely not a particularly heavy user when it comes to the inhalation speed. We're talking anything faster than the laziest of draws on a small bubbler.
 

Sour Dream

Grapefuit Sour Dream
Just got mine yesterday. If I pull out slow and long as I possibly can, I actually got some pretty good vapor off of this thing and can kill a bowl in a few hits. But if I speed up how fast I'm pulling whatsoever, I'll barely get any vapor whatsoever.


Is this normal? If it is, that's fine. It works well enough with the right technique. But from other reviews, I'm a little surprised.

For the record, this is on red and I'm definitely not a particularly heavy user when it comes to the inhalation speed. We're talking anything faster than the laziest of draws on a small bubbler.
One of the guys here will give you the whole breakdown on how convection works I’m sure lol, but yea it’s how it works.

The faster you draw the lower the temp of the air hitting the herb vs inhaling slowly
 
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Spelaeus

Well-Known Member
One of the guys here will give you the whole breakdown on how convection works I’m sure lol, but yea it’s how it works.

The faster you draw the lower the temp of the air hitting the herb vs inhaling slowly

All right, I saw some posts earlier in the thread talking about getting better vapor the harder you pull because you're pulling more hot air through your load. That definitely isn't my experience.

But I get why pulling too much cold air through the heater could cool things off too much. Just want to make sure my unit is functioning normally.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
Is this normal? If it is, that's fine. It works well enough with the right technique. But from other reviews, I'm a little surprised.

For the record, this is on red and I'm definitely not a particularly heavy user when it comes to the inhalation speed. We're talking anything faster than the laziest of draws on a small bubbler.

Who's to say what normal is these days? It's common enough, but not the only way to address this. Different techniques could give different results. The certainly do for at least some of us?

Consider how the system works. Heat is generated in the heater and is replaced by more heat (from the battery) as it's removed from the heater. So, within reason, the heat that's stripped out is mostly air heating, some conduction out through the body, but almost all the heat produced then removed is to the air. Got it?

Next idea is if you run it the way you are, you're heating only a small amount of herb, that which is directly exposed to the hot air. Since this small percentage is all that contacts the (modest) airflow, it's the only fraction that can produce vapor.

The goal should be getting as much of the load to magic temperature as possible if you want the highest production rate? I suggest you take it in stages, heat, then vapor? Tim from Thermovape came up with this idea as a starting technique for new to conduction Cera owners 'in the day'. Loosely called 'the puff test'. You pull fairly hard once the heater is hot. One draw after another, packing heat in without regard to vapor. Pull after pull quick as you're comfortable doing. Expect half a minute, give or take, to transfer enough in to make any difference. Remember the only source of power is what the air can take out of the heater. When you think there might be something happening, pause a second or two then take a 'test puff' and blow it out. Just a puff. If in doubt, pull another draw through and test puff again. Only when the test puff comes out solid, meaning the load is all hot, switch to hitting mode. HIt as you wish, now the heat coming in makes fresh vapor, not try to heat the load up?

Just another starting point, you're on your own to figure out what works best for you of course. Experiment around, follow the results you like. This is not a typical sort of vape, you are a major factor in it's use. Technique is an important variable. Not for everyone, of course, but it can be especially rewarding due to that?

Regards to all.

OF

Edit: Just to be clear, since you're 'sipping' air from the heater you're not really removing much heat. Not enough calories (as opposed to degrees) to heat the entire load in a reasonable time. Making the heater hotter doesn't really change the numbers of delivered energy much at all as you've seen? You're not 'overrunning' the heater I think.

OF
 
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Ramahs

Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
The slower you pull, the more vapor you're going to get at the same temperature. The faster you pull, the less vapor you're going to get at the same temperature.

If you're not getting the vapor you want, and you're already at the highest temp, then slow it down. If you have trouble drawing slow enough, then loosen your lips contact with the tip of the vape just enough to allow a small amount of air in on the side.
 
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KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
As always a sure way to help regulate draw speed if you struggle to do it yourself is to create resistance at the load: tamp the shit down! Make it a compact mass, and it will slow down passing air enough to give it time to vaporize the material.

Alternatively letting your screens clog works too...
 

Spelaeus

Well-Known Member
For anyone wanting to use this thing dry, I'd definitely recommend seeing if you have any small glass accessories lying around with a deep female 19mm joint. I've taken to using the wpa from my Elev8r, it cools the vapor just enough for sipping on it dry and stays on solidly enough that I'm comfortable using it around the house.

Between the vapor this thing puts off and the form factor, using it like this is the closest thing I've encountered to the experience of hitting a pipe but without any of the nastiness. Now that I'm thinking about it, I could probably fill one with glass beads for a nice, short cooling mouthpiece...
 
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