Vaporizing Tobacco (not e-cigs)

[Hansha]

(Pax doesn't succeed to heat properly all tobacco in the oven when it's fully tightly packed)

This in deed is the biggest flaw I can see o PAX 3. They should try to find a solution how to fix the heating of the upper portion of material. Packing with the half pack lid is not an option for me since it created to short sessions. I tried to get around it by grinding away a part of the half portion lid in order to achieve an optimum pressure and oven size. However - the half pack lid is no made out of solid material! When I grin of a portion of material it broke and revealed a cotton or some fibre inside. I rendered it useless.

I am not thinking how to attach another 3D screen to the regular lid without using any questionable chemicals. Such metal end of the oven lid would be optimal for the oven size and perhaps contribute to more heating in that portion.

I am also still looking to buy a secondary vaporizer. I would hate getting into a situation where my PAX fails and I stay without a device. After my bad experience with Crafty I was ogling Davici IQ. The reports I read however turned me away from it. I am not thinking or ArGo but would love some personal reviews from a tobacco smoker first. Did any of you tobacco smokers order it?

Another finding one might be interested in: I was looking for a tobacco grinder. Reading all the plastic particle, aluminium particle etc discussions plus not really liking the concept of weed grinders I started looking into manual coffee and herb mills.

I made a jump and bought a Porlex Mini coffee grinder. https://www.homegrounds.co/porlex-mini-hand-grinder-review/ It uses a set of spring-loaded ceramic burrs - I reckon nobody can find any health concerns with those even in the event they would chip and end up in out tobacco. I am happy to announce that the results are great! I can adjust the roughness of the grind and tobacco stays in the jar so there is no annoying grinders emptying that ends up everywhere. Because grinding tobacco shows less resistance than coffee I skip the crank, hold the bolt and turn the whole body.

 

[michael.lm]

fix the heating of the upper portion of material

Glad I am not alone on that J

You can try oven lids from newvape - it doesn’t solve problem but gives more flexibility how much to pack into oven. Also vented lid improves dramatically draw resistance.

I am using regular electrical coffee grinder - not ideal since it’s difficult to control a grind size. I will check a grinder you shared.

On the vaporizers front I follow Boundless Tera (should be re-released soon after recall) and Haze Square (quad chamber, release soon). Not sure if they are actually good for tobacco but look promising.

 

[michael.lm]

I received a herb press for pax and it’s working well. I was able prepack tobacco into pressed cakes half-oven in size, carry in small box and use them on-the-go.

 

[Küro]

Thinking about getting a butane powered vape pipe.

Have any of you guys tried a vapcap? It seems it’s nice on pot but not sure about tobacco use. Some ppl say it’s awful but some ppl say it’s ok. I want to hear opinions from ppl who are mainly vaping tobacco.

I have Pax3 and Solo2 but need non-battery powered one for my backpacking trip. (Mountain climbing)

 

[Xelatsok]

I vape tobacco exclusively and I do not recommend Vapcap for tobacco. Choose some convection vape instead. Lotus is my favorite, but it is hard to use while sunny or windy. For mountains, I would prefer Hammer and it is on sale now for lucky $40 at https://www.thehammervaporizer.com/collections/vaporizers. I yet to try Stickybrick, but I bet the big one is very good with tobacco too, while smaller one may lack vapor cooling.

 

[Küro]

Thanks, Xelatsok!

I will take a look at Hammer!

 

[dr_no]

Hi folks, so happy I found you!

I got the idea to vape my own tobacco after trying the iQOS. I liked it but no way I'm giving money to big tobacco anymore. I am only what they call a "party smoker", my habit is switched on after 2-3 drinks but then it is quite strong and e-cigs don't satisfy the craving.
Still, even at an estimated 1 pack of cigs per month on average, I'm concerned with my health. So my journey began...

I got a cheap 2nd hand Airistech Seva and tried all kinds of things: American Spirit rolling tobacco, "Voortrekker" pipe tobacco, different amounts in the chamber, tight vs loose packing, additionally chopped up vs whole, oven-dried, sprayed with VG, with a rolling cigarette filter inserted into the mouth piece DIY style, different temps of course and different techniques of puffing/drawing.

So far, the best results are with lightly packed pipe tobacco that has been dried in the oven a bit.
What I don't like about the taste of this is a certain "dryness" of the vapor. This does improve with VG but then VG seems to make the vapor more harsh, which I find counter-intuitive. Just like the fact that drying the tobacco made it vape better. People say the throat hit is determined by the amount of nicotine you get it. Either that's not the whole story or the VG greatly increases this amount.

I'm currently waiting for some vaping tobacco from toquesnuff.com and some Nordic Chew from buysnus.com to arrive. I read that the pasteurization process involved in Nordic Chew/Snus produces even fewer TSNAs so I'm hoping for an overall less toxic vapor from that. I have the feeling that Nordic Chew (which is basically Snus with a minor change to circumvent the EU ban) might also be lower on all the other nasty additives that big tobacco is putting in their products, even pipe tobaccos. It's quite moist so oven-drying will be a must, I guess.

Anyway, I'm satisfied enough with the results so far to go an invest in a better device that's easier to fill and clean and that will have longer battery life and better temp control so I can explore lower settings.
I tried the AirGo and was quite impressed, although the taste and amount of vapor didn't differ much from my cheap Seva. (side note: I too had difficulty getting any vapor out of the Mighty).
However, the Seva doesn't go below 190C which, according to the majority of comments I read, is a bit too much. I'll redo all the tests once I can go to ~170C.

Anybody out there using the AirGo for tobacco who can tell me if it's a good pick? Or would I be missing some important feature I don't yet know I need? How about Snus? Anybody vaping that?

 

[blokenoname]

I have a designated nylon stem for tobacco with an 8 mm ss tip and a screen for a bowl, I use with my DIY log vapes (Misty Pine). Fag- and rolling tobacco are unsuited. Taste and odour would make flys drop dead from the walls.

Decided on some quality pipe tobacco instead. Usually take two or three fingers full out of the bag and have a go at it with the good old shot glass and scissors first. Then I add about five to six drops of taste neutral and nicotine free PG/VG liquid to act as a solvent for extracting and transporting flavors and nicotine in the resulting aerosol and stir, until sufficiently absorbed. From how I understand it, most flavored pipe tobaccos come PG drenched anyway, as that's how the flavors got infused into the tobacco to begin with, and what keeps it humid for years.
Running the log at around 11-11,5V gives me the best results. Should be something between 190-200°C, I'd guess, but that also varies, depending of how far I insert the tip into the log's heater port. Gives me about 5-6 nice hits from a bowl.

For a portable, I tried an Arizer Air I, but compared to the log, it is just lame and the glass stems and oven are hard to clean from the gunk. The nylon stem on the other hand, can be easily cleaned with some hot water and soap. And the tip, I just throw away after a week, and cut me a new one, from fitting ss tubing.
So I went back to using a conventional e-cig, when out and about.
ETA: Should actually be easy, making a stem and fitting ss tip for the Air I too. 12mm maybe? We'll see, how that goes then.

Just found this designated tobacco vape here, which also uses typical log vape style stems: Cloud9 ™ .

https://www.portabletobaccovaporizer.com/pics.html

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I have a designated nylon stem for tobacco with an 8 mm ss tip and a screen for a bowl, I use with my DIY log vapes (Misty Pine). Fag- and rolling tobacco are unsuited. Taste and odour would make flys drop dead from the walls.

Decided on some quality pipe tobacco instead. Usually take two or three fingers full out of the bag and have a go at it with the good old shot glass and scissors first. Then I add about five to six drops of taste neutral and nicotine free PG/VG liquid to act as a solvent for extracting and transporting flavors and nicotine in the resulting aerosol and stir, until sufficiently absorbed. From how I understand it, most flavored pipe tobaccos come PG drenched anyway, as that's how the flavors got infused into the tobacco to begin with, and what keeps it humid for years.
Running the log at around 11-11,5V gives me the best results. Should be something between 190-200°C, I'd guess, but that also varies, depending of how far I insert the tip into the log's heater port. Gives me about 5-6 nice hits from a bowl.

For a portable, I tried an Arizer Air I, but compared to the log, it is just lame and the glass stems and oven are hard to clean from the gunk. The nylon stem on the other hand, can be easily cleaned with some hot water and soap. And the tip, I just throw away after a week, and cut me a new one, from fitting ss tubing.
So I went back to using a conventional e-cig, when out and about.
ETA: Should actually be easy, making a stem and fitting ss tip for the Air I too. 12mm maybe? We'll see, how that goes then.

Just found this designated tobacco vape here, which also uses typical log vape style stems: Cloud9 ™ .

https://www.portabletobaccovaporizer.com/pics.html

Haha the joke continues ,that guy was selling these for 1000$ back in the days,claiming it is the shit,but i doubt anyone here got around trying his product.With zero disclosure on internals and any safety certificates...
People are getting used to expensive vape gear nowadays but back then it sounded even more insane.
I am against all tobacco use,but i see people around here are getting in the IQOS shit,which is basicly e-juice dripped on cut to half cig fag...,lol...
I also remember the T-vape was originally meant to accept whole cigarretes .

About smokable tobacco being flavoured with PG,sounds like it further attributes very to the overall cancerogenic profile of this plant.

 

[blokenoname]

Oh... don't even remember what I searched for, when that site came up. Just found it interesting re the pic showing he's using stems, akin to the old PD and AZ/MZ ones. Site wasn't updated for ten years at least.

 

[dr_no]

So I went and bought the Arizer Go and I am very happy with it. 165 C already does the trick. Slightly dried pipe tobacco with a little bit of VG mixed into it gets a satisfying amount of vapor (although not comparable with the amount of smoke from a cigarette or vapor from an e-cigarette). Too much VG and the vapor gets too harsh for me and it leaves a sweet aftertaste on the tongue. But a little bit seems preferrable to no VG.

As for the toquesnuff vaping tobacco: I hope this is not what snus tastes like because I didn't like that at all. Very little vapor, bad taste. A waste of money.

 

[dr_no]

@Xelatsok One of the things that puzzle me is why more humid tobacco produces less vapor. Water has a low boiling point, waaay below PG and VG, so it should be producing vapor like crazy at the temperatures that I'm experimenting with (160 - 190). You mentioned this fact before. Can you shed some more light?

 

[Xelatsok]

Water steam is not vapor we are looking for. It is hot, tasteless and invisible. Clouds and taste are made of VG/PG and oils/resins correspondingly. Unfortunately, water remained prevents vaporizing of these substances, lowering load temp towards to 100C effectively. So, no clouds and taste until water is evaporated completely.

 

[dr_no]

@Xelatsok I see, thanks. Next experiment: longer drying times and a few drops 80/20 VG/PG mix for my pipe tobacco. After that more research into additive free, high-quality pipe tobacco in my city.

Meanwhile the Nordic Chew has arrived. I must've misunderstood the source that made me think vaporizing this would be a good idea... it's basically a paste and the smell hardly reminds me of tobacco. It smells nasty.

I understand that proper snus would be a little more coarse but I assume that the smell/taste is similar. I don't even want to know what this stuff tastes like in my ArGo.

 

[Xelatsok]

@XelatsokNext experiment: longer drying times and a few drops 80/20 VG/PG mix for my pipe tobacco.

Try it soaked for couple of days.

 

[dr_no]

That might make for more flavourful vapor but I noticed that more than a few drops of VG will make the vapor too harsh to inhale. I put the VG in a little spray bottle with some distilled water and spray the tobacco 3-5 times. Gives more vapor than without VG and is still inhaleable

 

[dr_no]

I am quite happy with the setup so far. Found a very tasty pipe tobacco (R. McConnell Scottish Blend) which I vape straight out the can at 175C for very smooth and tasty vapor.
Or, after drying for 15min at 100C and spraying with a VG + 10% Vodka solution, at 165C. The latter gives more vapor but is also harsher on throat+lungs. In both cases the nic buzz is similar, AFAICT.

The one thing I still can't figure out is where the harshness comes from when using VG. I can vape VG e-juice in an e-cigarette with no issues, I can vape pure tobacco, no issues. But the VG on the tobacco makes it surprisingly harsh. If anybody has an idea, let me know.

I got the VG it at a drug store. It's meant for mixing your own shampoos, etc. Not sure if that makes it food-grade or not. Maybe I should get some from a proper vape shop.
Also, VG is supposed to be sweet but I tried spraying some PG on the tobacco and I'd say the vapor was sweeter. The throat hit was similar but felt more "fine-grained", slightly more similar to what the light cigarettes that I used to smoke gave me. I might add 10% PG to the mix in the future.

 

[Xelatsok]

My experience with VG is opposite - it does nice clouds, but softens the taste, makes it bland, never harsh. PG provides excellent distinctive taste but it hits throat when there are a lot of it. So I mix VG/PG 70/30 or 80/20, never add water nor spirits nor anything.

 

[dr_no]

The reason for adding water or vodka was to reduce the boiling point of the VG. I understand that PG will reduce it somewhat, too, but I wanted a greater effect.
BTW, I get the harsh vapor from a drop of VG alone, too. Guess it's time I tried a different VG...

 

[Xelatsok]

I put the SS screen on to the oven bottom of both Air and Solo 2 to reduce harshness. I learned to avoid direct contact of metal heating plate to tobacco. Tobacco is overheated there and produce harsh vapor. I used the same “screen trick” with Vapcaps and Iolite, it worked.

 

[dr_no]

interesting. never thought of the proximity to the heating element as a source for harshness.

always putting the screen on top of the tobacco sounds like additional hassle that I would like to avoid.
I'll try loading the argo with half the tobacco. that should create 3-4 mm of seperation to the metall plate I see in there. maybe it'll change sth. though I don't really see or smell burned tobacco in the residue...

 

[Xelatsok]

I put the SS screen on to the oven bottom

putting the screen on top of the tobacco

There is a difference and it is great in terms of hassle. My screen keeps its place.

 

[dr_no]

i tried to translate this to the ArGo situation where I only have the glas tube:
https://goo.gl/images/nNQi2i

the tobacco goes in the short compartement in the front of the pic and then the tube is inserted into the ArGo so that front end is close to the heat source. Where would you put the SS in this case?

 

[Xelatsok]

Oven, not stem/tube. Into the device itself, laid over the oven bottom. If size is right, it will stay there. It is more complex task to put this screen into the ArGo though comparing to Air/Solo.

 

[dr_no]

I just tried it out. Put about half the tobacco I used until now, and pushed it firmly into the tube so there is at least 5mm space between it and the heating plate. And behold, there is a lot of vapor but it's much milder!
Thanks @Xelatsok ! I'm not sure if it's the distance or the fact that it's much less material. Maybe both. But I still get a good session from it so its even more efficient. Oh man, this is perfect. Now I can start bragging about it in real life