Vaporizing is drying my lungs out.

[Longbones]

Thanks for all your help, and sorry for derailing the thread.

I'm generally a pretty active person, which is why this bothers me so much. I only took up smoking because I was under the impression it wouldn't cause irreversible damage to my lungs...and then started vaping because I didn't even want temporary damage as I work out a lot.

So I'll probably still at least keep playing basketball and doing my martial arts. I'm going to quit the running for now though, and will quit altogether if that's what the doc advises. I definitely hear what you're saying though, and if it seems like my body is protesting I'll just take a break from everything...

 

[Carbon]

Herb has properties that facilitate sleep, and then there is the drying effect of the vapor itself. The sleep effect is similar to taking any central nervous system depressant such as a muscle relaxer, and latter is similar to taking an antihistamine. As a result a person may sleep with his/her mouth open, and the mouth is already being less moistened. The introduction of more air during sleeping along with less salivation can result in xerostomia and/or related dental issues. It's possible you could have nasal inflammation, but if so you would typically experience rhinitis symptoms, too.

Yeah there would be nights sometimes where my nose would allow basically no air in or out of it. I wish I'd known this was a risk when I got started with all of this as the recession cannot be reversed without surgery.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

Yeah there would be nights sometimes where my nose would allow basically no air in or out of it. I wish I'd known this was a risk when I got started with all of this as the recession cannot be reversed without surgery.

Good grief, that's too bad. So you've had the ENT exam with the endoscopic tube?

 

[Carbon]

Good grief, that's too bad. So you've had the ENT exam with the endoscopic tube?

No I haven't had one of those. All cannabis aside, pretty much every day of my life I don't have full use of one or the other nostril of my nose. I always just assumed it was my allergies.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

Good grief, that's too bad. So you've had the ENT exam with the endoscopic tube?

No I haven't had one of those. All cannabis aside, pretty much every day of my life I don't have full use of one or the other nostril of my nose. I always just assumed it was my allergies.

The reason I asked was because you said that it could not be reversed without surgery. If you haven't had that particular exam, I wonder what led you to the surgery conclusion? There are other possibilities. Allergies are one; is your breathing *ever* clear? Another is a deviated septum. Yet another is inflammation (which causes swelling), and then the question is, from what. If this is a constant or recurring problem, I would definitely see a good ENT specialist. Besides the nasal issue itself, if you're breathing through your mouth all the time then you're vulnerable to xerostomia which besides being uncomfortable has its own complications. The exam procedure is no picnic, but a good doc can do it in just a couple minutes.

Just my

 

[GratefulVapor]

I've developed this same problem as the OP originally reported...& I stopped combusting in Nov 2009! These reactions came outta nowhere..?

 

[Ratm22]

With smoking I had the exact symptoms. Keep liters of water with in reach. Always vape below 350F.

 

[kertong]

You have the exact same symptoms I do. I combusted and smoked from bongs and pipes in college, but that stopped in 2004. Been vaping through various vapes (see sig) ever since.

Try taking a benadryl about 20 minutes before you vape. It stops the wheezing / rattling / whistling sounds, coughing, dry irritated unproductive cough, etc. If I don't take a benadryl before bed, I wake up with both nostrils plugged, itching/running, etc. It's terrible.

Strangely, I think it is a herbal/flower thing, possibly an allergic reaction in my sinuses from powder/kief/etc getting into the bronchii and sinuses, and getting that whole post nasal drip (hence the rattling sound on exhale) thing.

Now that I'm using my omicron 95% of the time, the problem is gone. When I reintroduced my DBV to myself 2 weeks ago after about 3 months of 100% omicron use, bam - wheezy and rattling, and woke up the next morning with both nostrils plugged and tons of sinus pressure, etc.

 

[Nycdeisel]

Kertong. I think you could have avoided the drugs completely, if you would just filter out the particulates! By using a water pipe. even a small and simple glass piece would do the job for you. Removing all particles and pollen via water helps TREMENDOUSLY

 

[kertong]

Kertong. I think you could have avoided the drugs completely

Aw, but what fun is that? j/k Yeah, I sometimes have a minibong to filter through water, but I tend to use portables, on the go a lot. I have terrible rsi pain in my wrists and palm edges (i'm a software engineer) so I sometimes sneak puffs at work to restore feeling and such to my fingers, I don't think they would take too kindly to hearing that all too familiar bubbling sound.... haha. How awesome would that be, though

 

[sessnet]

Just bought a NICE DECENT PROFESSIONAL (and expensive) piece from ALT, tried it yesterday, and I am glad to say - NO MORE COUGHING/CHOKING.

Cheap glass with more water/airpath didn't seem to help.

Either that - or it's a placebo effect - but I would like to say - with GOOD filtration - I have solved my coughing/choking problem.

Will keep my fingers crossed that yesterday wasn't a fluke.

 

[Nycdeisel]

I feel like slapping you silly. If you dont know hos much fun glass water pipes are... well, I will just say you are missing out

Possibly other dry solutions for your portables, a type of hypoallergenic cloth. Maybe buy an organic cotton handkercheif or something along those lines, that would be able to filter out smaller particles. But that still can not beat water filtration in terms of filtering out the stuff you dont want.


Congrats, sessnet!

 

[OO]

Just bought a NICE DECENT PROFESSIONAL (and expensive) piece from ALT, tried it yesterday, and I am glad to say - NO MORE COUGHING/CHOKING.

Cheap glass with more water/airpath didn't seem to help.

Either that - or it's a placebo effect - but I would like to say - with GOOD filtration - I have solved my coughing/choking problem.

Will keep my fingers crossed that yesterday wasn't a fluke.

what matters the most is the technique, because that will determine the heat density of the air you are breathing.
in order to determine the heat density you need to know a thing or two about chemistry.

i'll include an example to help though.

i have a HA that i've had the most painful experience with, what was done was a dense, full pack with high quality, ground herb with very high trichome contents. the temp was turned up all the way, and a bag was the route of administration.

the high surface area of the herbs, along with the high amounts of herbs and high temps meant the first bag had extremely oversaturated air. the oversaturated air had alot of oil droplets which have a higher heat capacity than the air at the same temperature. this means that in order for them to equalize with the temperature of the lungs, they would have to lose much, much more heat than unsaturated air of the same temperature. this means that the tissue of the lungs was being heated much more than if i had taken the hit at a cooler temperature.

ive repeated the same thing with a 4 foot device. the fact that it is being pulled through water, as well as 4 feet of thick glass means that there is ample opportunity for the air/vapor/condensate mixture to lose its heat to the device before entering the lungs. and as a result it did not hurt the same amount, in fact the pain was much less.

it's fairly basic chemistry principles applied to vaporization.

 

[kertong]

Oh don't worry, I've taken dabs off a friend's ti nail / skillet and 6 arm perc / 2 foot bong, and maaaan. It was like breathing cool tasty air from a piney forest. Way better than any of the cheap $20 bongs I have lying around from my college days. I've def. been thinking of investing in some glass and an LSV or vriptech vape for the bedside nightstand...

 

[jeffp]

Depending on certain factors such as the actual vaporizer, the temp set on a variable temp vape, the current on the outlet, i actually DO find vaping to be more abrasive on my throat for the first few hits, than smoking. Bear in mind I was a cigarette smoker for most of my life. I'm sure that has something to do with it.

After a few hits vapor no longer causes me to choke but the first few hit me hard.

This is a recent phenomenon; for three years I didn't have any adverse reaction to vapor. I gave up cigarettes about a year and a half ago having switched to ecigs. I wonder if this has anything to do with this one way or the other.

Regardless I find that drinking tea is extremely beneficial to do while vaping, and vaping with water does help. Warm water in a bong is very good, much better than cold. I didn't understand this at first. Warm water seemed lame or wussy, so to speak, but it is better and I never use ice anymore.

The herbal tea that I really like alot, that just fits into the vaping experience perfectly, is Gotu Kola. It has a nice sweet taste, similar to chamomile. With a bit of stevia added, the taste is beautiful. It's reported to improve brain function which I can always use, as well. I was using "dream herb" in the form of tea for awhile but I can't handle the insanely bitter taste anymore although I did enjoy its effect.

 

[OO]

warm water should provide more humidity, which if the actual problem is actually dryness of the air (a definite possibility, since as the temperature of air increases, it's saturation specific humidity (the amount of water it can hold before being saturated) increases) which means the air would remove water from your lungs. so if warm water works better than cold, then i do suspect that the real issue is the dryness of the air!

a similar circumstance occurs for me in cars. when the defroster is on, hot air is being blown onto my face, and i get horrible boogers. this is because the hotter air is drier (its capacity to contain water has increased) and in order to come to equilibrium (in this case equal humidity) with the air in the environment, it will remove water from the most convenient place, the nasal passages it's being breathed through. this leaves the surface mucous hard, meaning annoying boogers.

 

[kertong]

This is a recent phenomenon; for three years I didn't have any adverse reaction to vapor. I gave up cigarettes about a year and a half ago having switched to ecigs. I wonder if this has anything to do with this one way or the other.

Interesting - you're not the only one. The only explanation I can come up with is that I overdid it and my body developed an allergy to it over time. In college, I smoked out of bongs and pipes quite often, and regularly for about 4 years. I then switched to a vaporbrothers box and whip vape, and was fine too. Then I went back to smoking joints for an year, then got myself a volcano.

I was fine with the volcano, until about year 2 into ownership. That's when I started sneezing, coughing, wheezing, rattling after a lungful of vapor.

Also to note is that an year before I got the volcano, my wife got a cat (worst decision ever imo). My allergies were already a little aggravated from that, but the volcano turned it into a much worse sneezing/plugging, etc.

Once I got the MFLB, and the PD, the problem multiplied, and I sounded like a rattlesnake when I inhaled or exhaled. Switching to non-flowers (like the omicron) and taking a benadryl or zyrtec once in a while kept it under control..

we're looking for a new home for the cat now, so if my allergies calm down and the vapor problem goes away with the cat, then I know it was the cat and the allergens in the air that I was inhaling into my lungs. If not, then it probably is related to flower/herbal particulates...

 

[jeffp]

But again, after a few hits the problem stops, I'm fine. Once the effects begin the coughing and choking subside, that is to say. I wonder if lack of humidity in my apt is a possible cause, like OO suggested; if a humidifier could help not just for vaporizing but in general. What I tend to do as a remedy is whatever vape I'm using when I'm inhaling I'll open the side of my mouth a little and draw in some air at the same time. Or I'll just take smaller hits.

But yes, I do find that vapor can be very abrasive and discomforting - in the beginning of a session. It is then remarkable to me that by the second bowl or stem I can then take in monster hits and hold them in like a college kid, as if the high relaxes the "fight or flight" reaction in my lungs.

 

[Stu]

But again, after a few hits the problem stops, I'm fine. Once the effects begin the coughing and choking subside, that is to say. I wonder if lack of humidity in my apt is a possible cause, like OO suggested; if a humidifier could help not just for vaporizing but in general. What I tend to do as a remedy is whatever vape I'm using when I'm inhaling I'll open the side of my mouth a little and draw in some air at the same time. Or I'll just take smaller hits.

But yes, I do find that vapor can be very abrasive and discomforting - in the beginning of a session. It is then remarkable to me that by the second bowl or stem I can then take in monster hits and hold them in like a college kid, as if the high relaxes the "fight or flight" reaction in my lungs.

Ditto for me, JeffP. Your comments mirror my own experience. I'm glad it's not just me!

First session of the day = coughing fits no matter what I try (minimized margianally by smaller hits)
Rest of my sessions = holding in monster hits with little or no cough afterward.

Strange, eh?

 

[vaporbrothers]

here's a vote for propylene glycol used in ecigs being the culprit for dry lungs.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...hen-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html

Read down the page:

"...Some - but by no means all - suffer from a dry throat, or even a sore throat, when starting to use an e-cigarette due to the drying-out effect of PG. ...... PG is a humectant (attracts, ie 'sucks out' water) and when vaping the back of the throat gets coated. You can find that after sleeping, you wake up with a sore throat. Things that can help are drinking a glass of water before bed, gargling with a mouthwash to cut the PG coating before bed, drinking water throughout the day, using hard candies and drinking liquids with honey liquid through the day to keep your mouth moist - especially if you are a new user.."

 

[Makai]

Indeed propylene glycol dries out the airways. But that alone doesn't make you cough from vaporizing. Maybe it's because dry airways can't easily clean those tiny plant particles which may be inhaled with the unfiltered vapor, and then they react more or less intensive. I think that may in some cases make the body produce histamines like in an allergic reaction.

I also switched to e-cigarettes a few months ago (after more than 20 years of smoking) and then had problems with my airways when I first tried my vaporizer 2 weeks ago. With a simple water filter and warm water it got a little better. And with a bubbler with inline diffuser I barely have any problem with the vapor anymore. I assume it's normal that it "burns" a little in the throat when inhaling a significant amount of vapor, and that vaporizing at high temperatures makes it a little heavier on the lungs.

There's also liquids for e-cigarettes with fewer or no propylene clycol at all. I'm vaping a liquid with 50% PG, 40% vegetable glycerin and 10% water. That may help if you have problems with the combination e-cigarette + vaporizer.

 

[kertong]

hey guys,

thanks for all the advice. a quick update - i got myself a humidifier and ran it in my room overnight. woke up clear lunged, seems to help! hope it isnt a fluke, will continue to use it and see..

 

[vorrange]

That's great man, hope you keep it clear then. ahah!

 

[kertong]

whoops, i just realized i posted this in the wrong thread. dammit...guess i'vehad one too many

 

[Carbon]

The reason I asked was because you said that it could not be reversed without surgery. If you haven't had that particular exam, I wonder what led you to the surgery conclusion? There are other possibilities. Allergies are one; is your breathing *ever* clear? Another is a deviated septum. Yet another is inflammation (which causes swelling), and then the question is, from what. If this is a constant or recurring problem, I would definitely see a good ENT specialist. Besides the nasal issue itself, if you're breathing through your mouth all the time then you're vulnerable to xerostomia which besides being uncomfortable has its own complications. The exam procedure is no picnic, but a good doc can do it in just a couple minutes.

Just my

Since posting in this thread I did have an exam and was told I have a somewhat deviated septum and some tight air passages. The exam wasn't very comfortable as you stated. Maybe I'll get surgery for it in the future, but for now I'm going to try my best to avoid something like that.

When I said something couldn't be reversed without surgery I was referring to gum recession in the mouth if I remember correctly.