Vaporizing is drying my lungs out.

[chib]

I'm just too cheap to pay shipping for only 1 bong attachment that I don't feel will be able to power my SG.
I find that the grind helps a bit but I'm usually to lazy to sit there and snip away at my bud with scissors, Sometimes I'll do it but not always.

On another note.
My lungs are feeling so much better than when I was toking my Q.
No more morning wheeze!

 

[Nycdeisel]

What!? You dont have a grinder? No wonder you dont have a good grind consistency !

 

[chib]

No no I do have a grinder I have a 4 piece sharp stone (not fake). I meant I would grind my weed up and then use scissors afterwards to make it extra fine

 

[Nycdeisel]

Oh my bad then.
Ah, well that makes sense! A 4 piece wont do the job well for the log vapes.
Buy a good 2 piece, like the small Space Case 2 piece, a favorite around this site. works flawlessly every time and is very well made!

Its important not only that you have the proper fineness(not too fine) while still being ground up evenly.

 

[MarcellusWiley]

I don't see why a 4 piece can't get the grind fine enough.

I take the top two pieces, with the teeth, put my buds in and grind them upside down in that part very nicely and then pop it on the rest of the grinder then turn it a couple more times to get the bud to fall through.

the more I grind it between the two top pieces turned upside down, the finer it gets! I can get it almost kief-like, just like my old two-piece I used to use. same idea.

 

[WakeAndVake]

Water + crushed ice is the key.

The vapor needs to cool down... I would bet the dryness you are feeling is actually just excess heat. I had a similar issue when I started vaping.

It seems that while vaping has a lower temperature than a lighter, it has a lot of concentrated heat, so it's easy to get burned. So take the precautions and use water + ice when you are getting nice.

 

[Nycdeisel]

the thing is if you use the 4 piece like a two piece like that you would have to take the top teeth parts off to use it that way and also dont put it onto the screen after or you will get plant material in the keif chamber.

you dont want it powder like though, but try finer then what you are using now.


the vapor doesnt actually need to be cooled that much, smoke is much hotter. vapor feels more dry though, so what is important is that it is moisturized by water filtration, it doesnt need a huge bong to cool down the vapor from a log vape.

 

[chib]

@ Marcellus
I find that my zap is working actually a lot better now that I'm chopping my weed fine with scissors after busting. The 4 piece I have leaves big leafs sometimes that don't like to burn, the more surface area exposed to the heat the better.

@Wakeandvake
Yes, But it's a goddam pain in the ass if you smoke as much weed as me to be constantly filling up icecube trays, But hey that's just me.

@Nyc
I think I may swing by the headshop next day off and pickup what you suggested, We'll see though. I did JUST get this grinder about a month ago so I may just hold up.

 

[MarcellusWiley]

@ Marcellus
I find that my zap is working actually a lot better now that I'm chopping my weed fine with scissors after busting. The 4 piece I have leaves big leafs sometimes that don't like to burn, the more surface area exposed to the heat the better.

Well that's what I was trying to say lol. I use my 4 piece and just turn it upside down (without the kief catch part) and just grind away until it is very fine. it doesn't fall through the screen because it is upside down so it continues to be ground up. way easier than scissors and you can still turn it over, put the kief catch back on and drop the bud it into the screen to keep the kief in the catch, or just dump all the bud into a bowl/paper to collect for packing and smoke it with the kief.

and yea if you do it TOO fine you can get plant material in the kief chamber so usually theres a point where you know you have grinded it enough where it is very fine but not like "coffee grinder dust"
been using it long enough got it pretty much down just on feel.


also if you don't like constantly filling up ice cube trays...try warm water possibly? to me either warm or cool helps, room temperature always leaves me with a weirder feeling/taste and is more unpleasant. warm feels more moisturizing than cool but is a bit odd at first.

 

[chib]

I thought I mine as well update everyone.
I have been feeling great since I got my Rockzap, been about a week since I've used my puffer or woke up with morning wheeze.

I am vaping half as much weed though with this thing though, that could be why.
(good thing)

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

@chib, with the huge caveat that I'm only speaking from my experience, so this is just fwiw. Btw, I have an EQ.

I have had a similar problem to yours, and I discovered there were two fundamental issues. One had to do with just finding the right usage technique for me, the other is a medical issue that is not that uncommon but still is little known to most people (as it was to myself).

The first issue is simply that I my respiratory system is just extra sensitive to heat and dryness. I combusted for years, without filtration or cooling, and rarely had an issue. But with the passage of time and relocating to a different climate, this sensitivity became more noticeable. This is common. When I started with the Q, I used passive direct draw @210c thru a 14" bong with a 6-slit stem; that required a lot of pull and didn't provide very good diffusion. Adding ice cubes seemed more of a hindrance than a help. I asked Kevin at Arizer what would be best for optimum density with minimum irritation, and he suggested dropping the temp to no higher than 190c and using the Fan assist set to 1 or 2. He was right. I also switched to the Headford piece that Nycdeisel has raved about, and she is spot on: It only holds a little over an oz, but the 11-slit inline chamber provides a lot of great diffusion; I've got a little tupperware bowl acting as an ice bucket for the glass which adds to the cooling. Then I fashioned a mini-bag that holds 5-6 hits, and use that thru the Headford rather than direct draw. Finally, I make sure my fill is right; with relatively good quality herb .15g is about right. This is enough for a very good high; if I want to go to the moon I use ~.25g and do the bag twice (Fan 1 actually results in more dense vapor). These changes greatly reduced the demand I was placing on my bronchial tubes in the draw, while providing a bit lighter vapor much more effectively moisturized and cooled. Does require a few more hits than a passive heavy hit at higher temp, so it's not quite as fast a trip but it's only a little additional time to get to the same place.

Now, after all that hoopla, here's the big surprise. Most everyone has heard of GERD or gastro reflux that causes heartburn, or inflammation where the esophagus meets the stomach. Well, there is a condition nicknamed "silent reflux", medical terms LRP (for "laryngopharyngeal reflux") or EERD (for "extraesophageal reflux"). These are called "silent" because in 50% of instances, there is no heartburn or stomach discomfort. The reason is that the stomach acid moves thru the esophagus more quickly and therefore concentrates higher up, primarily around the larynx. This causes radiating inflammation, for some a burning irritation anywhere from the upper trachea to the back of the throat. PPI medications often used for GERD such as Prevacid or Prilosec do not have the properties necessary to treat this type of reflux, which is why higher dosage Nexium is prescribed instead. This condition can only be confirmed by an ENT exam (which is no fun, but it's quick). I won't bore you with all the details of how I learned this, but I can say conclusively that this happens.

All any of us can do is share our particular experiences. I guess the lesson I learned is (1) try various adjustments in your vaping process, seemingly little things do matter; and (2) more can be involved than meets the eye, if a problem is outright painful and/or recurring something else could be at work and it pays to get it checked out.

Just my

 

[Longbones]

I feel like I'm having this problem as well. Since I started vaping more and more, I started getting shortness of breath (a problem I've never had before) and a wheeze on the last part of my exhale.

Completely stopped vaping and started working out a lot more, and I think my lungs are recovering. The problem seems to be with the dryness of vapor vs smoke (weird because the heat isn't as high and I have very good technique as far as not burning my buds).

I was using a mflb without a stem, but I'd ideally like to get back to vaping but have it 'moisturized'.

What headford piece were you referring to oldie? Would it work with the MFLB water pipe adapter?

Would a waterpipe+mflb adaptor achieve what I want in terms of moisturized vapor?

 

[SD_haze]

What headford piece were you referring to oldie? Would it work with the MFLB water pipe adapter?

Would a waterpipe+mflb adaptor achieve what I want in terms of moisturized vapor?

headford inline

The MFLB adapter has a GonG joint and the headford is GonG (glass on glass), but I believe the MFLB joint is 14mm (standard) and the headford is 18mm. You'd need a 18-->14 reducer adapter (Under $10-20)

However, the headford jacuzzi bubbler IS 14mm.
Fairly comparable diffusion with both being flavor savers.
It just doesn't stand quite upright, like the inline can.

 

[J.R.R.Tokin']

Would a waterpipe+mflb adaptor achieve what I want in terms of moisturized vapor?

Water filtration definitely increases the moisture levels and makes the vapor less harsh. But, I will say yours seems to me to be quite an extreme reaction. Because of this I don't know if water filtration is going to be enough for you. I would recommend picking up a relatively cheap bong to start with to see if the filtration is 'cooling/calming' enough before you go shelling out a wad of cash.

You may want to consider alternative methods like edibles, tinctures and capsules for your mj needs

 

[Longbones]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Honestly considering quitting altogether except for edibles on occasion. It'll depend on how long it is until I notice all breathing problems going away, and whether I notice the same problems come back with less frequent vaping or smoking.

I never had these breathing troubles when I was only smoking (out of bongs or dry piecesI've definitely toked from many a bong), but I only noticed the wheeze when I started running again and opened up my lower lungs again (which might not have been used in a while...?).

The shortness of breath, however, I didn't notice even with smoking. So I'm thinking it might be the moisture troubleeither way, I'm going to wait until my lungs are 100% before experimenting.

I did have a really bad cough a month and a half ago, and smoked for a few days during it. I'm not sure if that caused any of this...

SD_Haze, thanks for the infoit'll prove very useful should water filtration be what I need.

 

[J.R.R.Tokin']

Honestly Longbones, to me it sounds like you have an infection on your lungs. It is possible that the cough developed into an infection, and the vapor wouldn't have helped. I would seriously consider going to your GP and have a check-up with a focus on your lungs. The thing with lung problems is that they are much easier to treat earlier on and damn stubborn if left a long time. Play it safe and see a doc

 

[Longbones]

I honestly have been thinking the same thing, but wanted to see if it got better on its own. It's now been about a week and a half since I stopped vaping/smoking and I still have that wheeze on the last part of the exhale.

The thing is, I'm not coughing, I'm now working out 2-3 times a day with no shortness of breath, and not coughing up yellow or green phlegm since I stopped vaping/smoking. Do you still think it's possible I have an ongoing infection?

I've been worried since I noticed this, and am moreso now. Knew I shouldn't have smoked with a cough, and stopped when I realized that; stillit does seem possible I have an infection.

 

[Nycdeisel]

If you do seek medical help, Just remember that antibiotics only work on bacterial infections.

Could just be bronchitis. in which case you really can wait it out, could be 3-4 weeks but theres no magic pill.

 

[darkrom]

I'm on anti-biotics now for an unknown throat issue. Vaping DEFINITELY makes it worse. I am vaping 1x a day at most right now and none if I can. Hopefully things go back to normal.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

I honestly have been thinking the same thing, but wanted to see if it got better on its own. It's now been about a week and a half since I stopped vaping/smoking and I still have that wheeze on the last part of the exhale.

The thing is, I'm not coughing, I'm now working out 2-3 times a day with no shortness of breath, and not coughing up yellow or green phlegm since I stopped vaping/smoking. Do you still think it's possible I have an ongoing infection?

I've been worried since I noticed this, and am moreso now. Knew I shouldn't have smoked with a cough, and stopped when I realized that; stillit does seem possible I have an infection.

Just to add to the several good replies . . . if you had that kind of phlegm, you had an infection. You may have overcome it, or it may remain at low grade. Infections can also migrate. Regardless - and I'm afraid this is a distinct possibility - you may have really inflamed the delicate tissues in your bronchial tract; that's where the problem is typically rather than inside the lungs. Smoking or even vaping while there is infection can substantially aggravate the inflammation; the infection can resolve but the inflammation remain. Ironically, working out that increases your breathing load can add to this because of the additional expansion/contraction that flexes the tissues.

IMO it's time to see a good physician. S/he will listen to your airways and take an x-ray to see if there is any obstruction, constriction, or infection. However, if the problem is residual inflammation, it may not be severe enough for the physician to detect, i.e., it will have to be a symptomatic diagnosis. It's likely that you'll be put on a course of antibiotics; even if you no longer have an infection, as long as you have the inflammation you are vulnerable to a relapse or exposure to another bug. The last thing you want is a recurrence or new infection, that's the path to pneumonia. What you tolerated in the past is not relevant now. It's possible if not probable that the only solution is time, rest, and taking precautions such as avoiding exertion. Listen carefully to your body. And take it slow, however long it takes.

Good luck.

 

[djonkoman]

I do notice that if I'm pretty vaked my hits start to get smaller, I feel it more in my throat
and especially in the weekends when I have nice vapebinges at night I usually have a bit a dry troath when I wake up in the morning and some thick phlegm
but if I combust, especially with tobacco(all my friends smoke mixed joints), it's much more pronounced/worse
don't know how it would be if I only combust and not vape

when I'm sick/getting sick it's also worse, vaping will give me a sore throat, but also reduce other symptoms(headache for example), so it's worth it. if I combust while sick it wil feel better as vapor at first, the smoke kind of numbs my throat, but after an half hour to an hour I will get a really sore throat, wich isn't worth the decrease in other symptoms(wich is also less with combustion as with vapor since the smoke itself amplifies headaches a bit, so will help less as vapor against headache)

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

I do notice that if I'm pretty vaked my hits start to get smaller, I feel it more in my throat and especially in the weekends when I have nice vapebinges at night I usually have a bit a dry troath when I wake up in the morning and some thick phlegm but if I combust, especially with tobacco(all my friends smoke mixed joints), it's much more pronounced/worse don't know how it would be if I only combust and not vape

when I'm sick/getting sick it's also worse, vaping will give me a sore throat, but also reduce other symptoms(headache for example), so it's worth it. if I combust while sick it wil feel better as vapor at first, the smoke kind of numbs my throat, but after an half hour to an hour I will get a really sore throat, wich isn't worth the decrease in other symptoms(wich is also less with combustion as with vapor since the smoke itself amplifies headaches a bit, so will help less as vapor against headache)

Your post illustrates one of the risks associated with not only combustion but even vaporizing, especially if at higher temperatures and extra especially if there is already inflammation, let alone some underlying condition. At high temperatures canniboids which have analgesic and anesthetic properties are converted to vapor. With combustion, not only do you have the same canniboid effects but additional compounds in the herb undergo a chemical conversion; this is how for example benzenes are created, and some of these can also produce an anesthetic effect. Symptoms improve. However, as you experienced, these effects are transient and, while possible providing some temporary relief to the existing inflammation, often actually make the condition worse.

The net effect of course varies highly by the person. Someone who is younger and stronger and who has relatively mild irritation, will likely find it tolerable. This is common with tobacco smokers, who will put up with "smoker's cough", compromise of taste, dental conditions, acid reflux, etc. for years. It's likely that herb smokers and even heavy high-temp vapers may do the same, although of course the ramifications are significantly less for herb smoking vs tobacco smoking, and much less again for vaporizing vs herb combustion, usually just on-going throat or bronchial irritation. But there remains the possibility that the inflammation makes one vulnerable, e.g., to bronchitis. The vulnerability increases over time. In the end, each person makes his/her own risk/benefit trade-off, hopefully an informed decision. A caveat in this equation is medical users, who due to treatment needs may decide to accept more annoyance or even risk in exchange for the medical benefits, just as is true with any other drug treatments since virtually all drugs have some side-effects.

It's the above that led me to pay more and more attention to my vaporizing routine and technique. For years I combusted with little ill effect. When I took up vaporizing I thought I'd gone to heaven and, frankly, I allowed myself to over-indulge. I eventually paid a price for that misjudgment. I have since gone through an evolution of vape selection, moisturizing and cooling, temperature reduction, herb quantity and frequency, and technique, to eventually find a method and level which does not leave me irritated and vulnerable. I don't want to have to go on sabbatical for months again waiting for an inflammation to heal. While not quite the blow-out fun that I used to have, I feel a lot better for it in more ways than one.

Just my

 

[Longbones]

Oldieif it is inflammation, and assuming I abstain from vaping or smoking in any form, should this inflammation eventually subside? I'll be going to see a physician within the next couple days.

I'd hate to think my lungs will be permanently damaged because of a stupid decision I made to smoke with a cough.

 

[Carbon]

Here's a story from me as well:
I was vaping excessively for a while. Background is that I have allergies, sensitive skin, etc. Vaping a lot for multiple days in a row for a long period of time caused unsightly gum recession. I hypothesize that it was caused by the drying effect of the vapor combined with it causing nasal inflammation necessitating me breathing through my mouth all night while asleep so I could get enough air.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

Oldieif it is inflammation, and assuming I abstain from vaping or smoking in any form, should this inflammation eventually subside? I'll be going to see a physician within the next couple days.

I'd hate to think my lungs will be permanently damaged because of a stupid decision I made to smoke with a cough.

I wouldn't think you have done permanent damage. The body is very resilient and its self-healing powers remarkable. And the inflammation is much more typically in the bronchus, not the lungs. As I indicated previously, resolution comes with time. How much time? Depends on the degree of inflammation, your overall health, and how smart you are about the recovery. In particular, be careful to avoid doing things that re-aggravate the tissues, so besides the obvious of no smoke and no vape, stay away from cold dry air, don't do the cardio that gets you breathing heavily, and the like. The tissues just need an extended rest.

I was vaping excessively for a while. Background is that I have allergies, sensitive skin, etc. Vaping a lot for multiple days in a row for a long period of time caused unsightly gum recession. I hypothesize that it was caused by the drying effect of the vapor combined with it causing nasal inflammation necessitating me breathing through my mouth all night while asleep so I could get enough air.

Herb has properties that facilitate sleep, and then there is the drying effect of the vapor itself. The sleep effect is similar to taking any central nervous system depressant such as a muscle relaxer, and latter is similar to taking an antihistamine. As a result a person may sleep with his/her mouth open, and the mouth is already being less moistened. The introduction of more air during sleeping along with less salivation can result in xerostomia and/or related dental issues. It's possible you could have nasal inflammation, but if so you would typically experience rhinitis symptoms, too.