Vaporizer Purchase Question

[Shit Snacks]

Everyone should remember that the BP of THC at standard pressure is unknown. The Wikipedia value is of no use since it is under near vacuum.

It probably degrades/denatures prior to boiling but rides on Terpines as an aerosol.

The temperature control is most helpful at least as I see it to keep the temp down to the minimum to get the job done.

Yeah I had a typo above, meant to say I rarely use the chart for the specific temperatures, once you get to know the dial, you know what the different dial lines correspond to, for the extraction you are looking for, so the actual value is irrelevant

 

[badbee]

the BP of THC at standard pressure is unknown. The Wikipedia value is of no use since it is under near vacuum.

It's unusual for a physical property of a material to be quoted at something other than STP. "standard temperature and pressure". Do you mean it is unknown to everyone or just to those getting information from Wikipedia? Is there some reason it would be difficult to determine the value at STP? Seems odd.

 

[andrew`124c41+]

It's unusual for a physical property of a material to be quoted at something other than STP. "standard temperature and pressure". Do you mean it is unknown to everyone or just to those getting information from Wikipedia? Is there some reason it would be difficult to determine the value at STP? Seems odd.

The BPs of most substances are done under near vacuum. As pressure increases, the BP goes up. There is even an equation to predict those temps but it is theoretical.

You are mixing things up referring to STP. I am referring only to standard pressure.

The bottom line is that NOBODY knows the true BP of THC. If you do some research you will find this statement to be true.

I remember doing melting point assays to look at the purity of organic compounds...but this is different than looking at BPs of organic compounds... assuming you have a pure sample.

 

[Petetbay]

The bottom line is that NOBODY knows the true BP of THC. If you do some research you will find this statement to be true.

I don’t know if it is a fact, but I know it’s true.
There are people that know and have conducted the research. There are many cannabis companies doing research of every aspect of cannabis, thc and cbd and to say their chemical engineers can’t or haven’t studied the gasification point of thc is more likely not true. I would put money on that S&B’s chemical engineers know that # at any pressure. You ever listen Mark on Hash Church, who is a chemical engineer(mighty even be PhD) that works as consultant to a lot cannabis oriented companies, he could tell you how it’s done.

 

[andrew`124c41+]

I don’t know if it is a fact, but I know it’s true.
There are people that know and have conducted the research. There are many cannabis companies doing research of every aspect of cannabis, thc and cbd and to say their chemical engineers can’t or haven’t studied the gasification point of thc is more likely not true. I would put money on that S&B’s chemical engineers know that # at any pressure. You ever listen Mark on Hash Church, who is a chemical engineer(might even be PhD) that works as consultant to a lot cannabis oriented companies, he could tell you how it’s done.

Look, I am not going to argue with you. But I am telling you, that the BP of THC at standard pressure is unknown. In fact, it is a guy who tests vaping devices that came up with the aerosol theory

If you can find the BP I would be the first to congratulate you!

 

[andrew`124c41+]

Look, I am not going to argue with you. But I am telling you, that the BP of THC at standard pressure is unknown. In fact, it is a guy who tests vaping devices that came up with the aerosol theory

If you can find the BP I would be the first to congratulate you!

Seriously, I would like to know. I can't find it :-(

 

[Berzzerkker]

Why are boiling points so different??

delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol

Chemical and physical data Formula C21H30O2 Molar mass 314.469 g·mol−1 3D model (JSmol) Interactive image Specific rotation −152° (ethanol) Boiling point 155–157°C @ 0.05mmHg,[6] 157–160°C @ 0.05mmHg[7]

delta-8 tetrahydrocannabinol

Chemical formula	C21H30O2
Molar mass	314.5 g/mol
Density	1.0±0.1 g/cm3
Boiling point	383.5±42.0 °C

 

[andrew`124c41+]

The first one is at near vacuum. The second one (as far as I understand) is an estimate at 39 mm hg based upon the Clausis-Clapeyron equation. But it is a theoretical estimate not based upon physical chemical analysis.

Note the second value +/- 42 degrees C. It could theoretically be 42 degrees higher or lower.

 

[badbee]

The BPs of most substances are done under near vacuum.

When you say this do you mean specifically for most organic compounds? The term "normal boiling point" is specifically defined as the boiling point at 1 atm pressure, anything else is something other than normal boiling point. Is the "normal" part not standardly used in organic chemistry? Luckily for me "orgo" wasn't a requirement for an engineering degree (other than chemical), I had many friends who had to take it twice.

It still seems bizarre that such an easily measured property wouldn't be well known.

 

[andrew`124c41+]

The first one is at near vacuum. The second one (as far as I understand) is an estimate at 39 mm hg based upon the Clausis-Clapeyron equation. But it is a theoretical estimate not based upon physical chemical analysis.

Note the second value +/- 42 degrees C. It could theoretically be 42 degrees higher or lower.

 

[andrew`124c41+]

When you say this do you mean specifically for most organic compounds? The term "normal boiling point" is specifically defined as the boiling point at 1 atm pressure, anything else is something other than normal boiling point. Is the "normal" part not standardly used in organic chemistry? Luckily for me "orgo" wasn't a requirement for an engineering degree (other than chemical), I had many friends who had to take it twice.

It still seems bizarre that such an easily measured property wouldn't be well known.

Yep, it is confusing. I agree with you. Look at this article. By the way there is also vapor pressure but that is an equilibrium state as I vaguely recall.

What Is The Real Boiling Point of THC?

Wikipedia can be a great source of information, but don’t always trust it. When it comes to numerical values, like the boiling point of a compound, normally Wikipedia gets close enough because something so simple is easy to agree on, and all the primary sources will provide roughly the same...

hightimes.com

 

[Petetbay]

I never try to argue, you just need further education on cannabis and not all the answers are readily available to everyone looking for them on the internet. Marcus (the bubbleman) holds school at Hash Church with some of the best people in the many roles all in support of the health benefits of cannabis. I find the discussions extremely educational and these are not just stoners getting together.

We are both old school and mighty be time to head back to class. School is in. Long 3.5hr lectures. The Coles Notes cheat point is 2:34.00 boiling point.

 

[andrew`124c41+]

I never try to argue, you just need further education on cannabis and not all the answers are readily available to everyone looking for them on the internet. Marcus (the bubbleman) holds school at Hash Church with some of the best people in the many roles all in support of the health benefits of cannabis. I find the discussions extremely educational and these are not just stoners getting together.

We are both old school and mighty be time to head back to class. School is in. Long 3.5hr lectures. The Coles Notes cheat point is 2:34.00 boiling point.

I don't know anything about these guys. What I need is a scholarly, peer reviewed article in a respected scientific journal. Absent that, as far as I am concerned, the BP at 39 mm hg is unknown. Maybe they did some research, but until it is published and replicated, it is unproven.

I have been involved with integrative, complimentary medicine since the 90s. There are many therapies that are of interest to people but they have not gone through proper trials or approval. One has to remain skeptical. Heck, I remember when I first encountered the Threronos technology. I read the original patients that were the basis for it and I did not believe it at the time.

Do these guys have anything published? Do they explain their methodology? I heard nothing in the video about arriving at the actual BP

 

[andrew`124c41+]

I don't know anything about these guys. What I need is a scholarly, peer reviewed article in a respected scientific journal. Absent that, as far as I am concerned, the BP at 39 mm hg is unknown. Maybe they did some research, but until it is published and replicated, it is unproven.

I have been involved with integrative, complimentary medicine since the 90s. There are many therapies that are of interest to people but they have not gone through proper trials or approval. One has to remain skeptical. Heck, I remember when I first encountered the Threronos technology. I read the original patients that were the basis for it and I did not believe it at the time.

Do these guys have anything published? Do they explain their methodology? I heard nothing in the video about arriving at the actual BP. Did I miss something.

.

 

[JOHN GALT]

Determination of Cannabinoid Vapor Pressures to Aid in Vapor Phase Detection of Intoxication​

Tara M. Lovestead** and Thomas J. Bruno

Determination of Cannabinoid Vapor Pressures to Aid in Vapor Phase Detection of Intoxication - PMC

The quest for a reliable means to detect cannabis intoxication with a breathalyzer is ongoing. To design such a device, it is important to understand the fundamental thermodynamics of the compounds of interest. The vapor pressures of two important ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[andrew`124c41+]

Determination of Cannabinoid Vapor Pressures to Aid in Vapor Phase Detection of Intoxication​

Tara M. Lovestead** and Thomas J. Bruno

Determination of Cannabinoid Vapor Pressures to Aid in Vapor Phase Detection of Intoxication - PMC

The quest for a reliable means to detect cannabis intoxication with a breathalyzer is ongoing. To design such a device, it is important to understand the fundamental thermodynamics of the compounds of interest. The vapor pressures of two important ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I read this article. It deals with vapor pressure, not

Determination of Cannabinoid Vapor Pressures to Aid in Vapor Phase Detection of Intoxication​

Tara M. Lovestead** and Thomas J. Bruno

Determination of Cannabinoid Vapor Pressures to Aid in Vapor Phase Detection of Intoxication - PMC

The quest for a reliable means to detect cannabis intoxication with a breathalyzer is ongoing. To design such a device, it is important to understand the fundamental thermodynamics of the compounds of interest. The vapor pressures of two important ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I read this article. It is about vapor pressure, not boiling point which are two very different things.
While they are related, the vapor pressure of a compound is given as a pressure in a closed system. The BP is the temperature at which there is a phase change from liquid to gas.

The vapor pressure is the tendency of a substance to go from the liquid to gassous phase. There is an equilibrium between the liquid and the vapor at the service.

Vapor pressure increases with temperature. So, to determine the vapor pressure, you put the liquid in a container like a flask and hook it up to a manometer. This will give you a pressure at a specific temperature. By increasing the temperature, one can plot the vapor pressure points against temperature giving you a curve on a graph.

Unfortunately, this does not tell you at what point the substance boils.

Here is the problem. Every substance does not have a melting or boiling point. You could be in a lab and obtain a BP under vacuum. But as the pressure is increased, as one increases the temperature of the substance, say you start with a yellowish liquid. You try your experiment at half 1 atmosphere. The substance remains a liquid but turns black at a certain temperature before the BP. You lower the temperature and the substance stays black.

You run your new black substance through a GC/MS (gas chromatography mass spectrograph and lo and behold you now have a new substance that you can't identify!)

The intramolecular forces are too weak to take the heat so it degrades before boiling.

Kind of a paradox...
or bummer as far as THC is concerned.

I love organic chemistry.

The chemistry of compounds is facinating. How close 3,4,5 trimethoxyephedrine (phenylephrine) is to both ephedrine, amphetamine, and methamphetamine.

The difference between the first and last molecules are just the 3 methoxy groups!

It should come as no surprise that psuedophed is locked up at the pharmacy. We would not want people doing certain at home organic conversions now would we.

So, it should be no surprise, that the first molecule, mescaline, is pharmacologically a pressor and will increase BP and cause mydriasis, pupillary enlargement.

LSD is also related being lysergic acid diethylamide.

It too is an amide.

Of note, only the dextro isomers are generally psychoactive.

 

[invertedisdead]

It’s not like the metrics are totally unknown though, we can extrapolate from published data on various vaporizers and their condensate that the ideal temperature range for volatization of THC is likely between 210-230C.

You could assume If a researcher is performing such experiments as determining enthalpy of cannabinoid isolates; they’re probably gonna test under vacuum simply based on their educational background. It’s not that data at ambient pressure isn’t useful to somebody, but in a lab setting one is likely to follow their training.

 

[andrew`124c41+]

It’s not like the metrics are totally unknown though, we can extrapolate from published data on various vaporizers and their condensate that the ideal temperature range for volatization of THC is likely between 210-230C.

You could assume If a researcher is performing such experiments as determining enthalpy of cannabinoid isolates; they’re probably gonna test under vacuum simply based on their educational background. It’s not that data at ambient pressure isn’t useful to somebody, but in a lab setting one is likely to follow their training.

The reason it is done under vacuum is because that the BP will be often much lower than under 1 Atm.

The bottom line is that you are offering what is tantamount to a guess rather than a value achieved by repeated experiment and findings.

 

[ugotmale]

I came across this:

Boiling Point of THC

Boiling Point of THC

That chart is perfect. Good find. That chart (and the math that created it) was the basis for the computation for the pressure curve really I created. If you observe two known points of a boil at two different pressures then the math that created that curve chart you posted can be used to...

future4200.com

 

[andrew`124c41+]

I came across this:

Boiling Point of THC

Boiling Point of THC

That chart is perfect. Good find. That chart (and the math that created it) was the basis for the computation for the pressure curve really I created. If you observe two known points of a boil at two different pressures then the math that created that curve chart you posted can be used to...

future4200.com

This is an estimate used by researchers to eastimste BPs at various pressures. I already mentioned this in another post. The problem is that it is an estimate not hard proof.

 

[Siebter]

@andrew`124c41+ – Maybe explain to us what exactly is missing; why is an estimation not good enough?

 

[andrew`124c41+]

@andrew`124c41+ – Maybe explain to us what exactly is missing; why is an estimation not good enough?

I am not saying it has no value, but it is an estimate. You have to obtain the phase change at that temperature and pressure and be certain that the compound you started with is the same as after the phase change...that the original compound did not degrade.

I don't think this has a whole lot of impact upon vaping. What does it matter whether the THC gets to your lungs vis vaporization or piggy backing other Terpines as an aerosol?

It does have a bearing on pure research and methodologies for detection and quantitative analysis.

The following article does not address the BP issue but other issues about determining potency.

The Highs and Lows of Cannabis Testing

AOCS advances the science and technology of oils, fats, proteins, surfactants, and related materials, enriching the lives of people everywhere.

www.aocs.org

 

[LesPlenty]

any recommendations for a vaporizer meeting my requirements (if it exists) would be helpful.

Boundless Tera is on sale again...US$75 is a crazy price for such a great bong buddy...WPA included in the box!

TERA Vaporizer | Dry Herb Vape | Boundless Technology

Our Boundless TERA Vaporizer is the ultimate convection hybrid vape for wax and flower. Discreet, compact, and lightweight, this is ideal for on the go use.

bndlstech.com

 

[Petetbay]

Boundless Tera is on sale again...US$75 is a crazy price for such a great bong buddy...WPA included in the box!
View attachment 15588

TERA Vaporizer | Dry Herb Vape | Boundless Technology

Our Boundless TERA Vaporizer is the ultimate convection hybrid vape for wax and flower. Discreet, compact, and lightweight, this is ideal for on the go use.

bndlstech.com

I got one on BF sale for $115CDN=$90USD, so that’s an amazing price.

 

[Robert-in-YEG]

I got one on BF sale for $115CDN=$90USD, so that’s an amazing price.

The price is fantastic. I paid $160.

Robert-in-YEG

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