Vaporiser temperature and heart rate variability

[muswolf]

Hi all!

I have a prescription for pain and anxiety. I also wear an Apple Watch that tracks my heart rate variability (HRV), a measure of stress, which is interesting because I can see how my medical usage affects my symptoms and HRV. I find that lower temperatures (around 165°C or 329°F in a Mighty/4.5 in a TM) boost my HRV (reduces my stress). This correlates with my anxiety and pain diminishing strongly, and feeling more relaxed. I also associate this with an expansion of my awareness (versus feeling claustrophobic when stressed).

I have found differing effects at higher temperatures, which is why I am wondering if anyone else has experimented with cannabis and HRV like this? At higher temperatures (above 195°C/383°F) although subectively I like the effects (stoney, high, super relaxed), my HRV drops significantly. This is what is reported in clinical research (for smoking maybe) and is I assume because of the CB2 receptor activation in the body/immune cells. The THC at 165°C is mainly acting on the CB1 receptors of the brain (mind-high). I am also using a THC oil, which does not cause significant sedation even at large doses (20mg+) - so I am pretty sure it does not contain CBN. Hence I am left thinking that although I like the physical relaxation of the CBN in my flower, it is not 'good' for me?

For more context on this, it is well established in the medical field that HRV is a good indicator of both chronic and acute stress, either in chronically low values, or by a sudden sharp drop. Things like bad sleep, diet, overtraining, overworking and external stressors (work) negatively implicate HRV, in addition to physical/mental health conditions.

Higher temperatures also increase the dosage so I have tried experimenting with smaller doses (typically load 0.1g, tried 0.05g) but I need to pack the deadspace in my Mighty/dosing cap.

Thanks!

 

[Haze Mister]

I am not a fan of the "medical field" or Apple and their "smart " gadgets, but can tell you from extended (decades) experience both in myself and from many others I have known, that cannabis (and especially oil!) is far from ideal if you have anxiety issues. Most doctors will probably agree.

Low THC cannabis may reduce anxiety temporarily but this is management of symptoms rather than addressing the root of the issue. I would especially advise against using before sleep as it interferes with deep sleep and prevents proper relaxation. I also believe CBD and similar are ridiculously hyped by ex- dope dealers wanting to be legit and cashing in on general ignorance after decades of insane prohibition.

Physical exercise (not training), meditation and breathing techniques can help. Proper sleep is the best medicine.

I would not waste time reading about receptors and the like- science really has a very limited understanding of human psychology, psychoactive plants, the human body and their intersection. They are still stuck in the dark ages of torturing animals for "experiments" and extrapolating the "results" to human beings....

I advise stopping with the THC oil immediately or tapering off if you get withdrawal symptoms ( more anxiety, insomnia, stomach upset).

 

[fdgero]

on your HRV i am workin with a Solo 2 trying to get exactly what you hit on, with the same history and rec. I'm curious what you're vaping to achieve wanted results? (and I use a body gel for arthritis and old traumatic paín)

 

[muswolf]

on your HRV i am workin with a Solo 2 trying to get exactly what you hit on, with the same history and rec. I'm curious what you're vaping to achieve wanted results? (and I use a body gel for arthritis and old traumatic paín)

Vaping a 20% THC 0% CBD indica (Cairo). The THC at the low temperatures is enough to get at the nerve pain I find, so try 170°C in your Solo 2! I actually find 175 and 180 to be stimulating. Then 185 and 190 become more sedating.

I am not a fan of the "medical field" or Apple and their "smart " gadgets, but can tell you from extended (decades) experience both in myself and from many others I have known, that cannabis (and especially oil!) is far from ideal if you have anxiety issues. Most doctors will probably agree.

Low THC cannabis may reduce anxiety temporarily but this is management of symptoms rather than addressing the root of the issue. I would especially advise against using before sleep as it interferes with deep sleep and prevents proper relaxation. I also believe CBD and similar are ridiculously hyped by ex- dope dealers wanting to be legit and cashing in on general ignorance after decades of insane prohibition.

Physical exercise (not training), meditation and breathing techniques can help. Proper sleep is the best medicine.

I would not waste time reading about receptors and the like- science really has a very limited understanding of human psychology, psychoactive plants, the human body and their intersection. They are still stuck in the dark ages of torturing animals for "experiments" and extrapolating the "results" to human beings....

I advise stopping with the THC oil immediately or tapering off if you get withdrawal symptoms ( more anxiety, insomnia, stomach upset).

I am not a fan of big pharma and end-game capitalism either.

I did talk to my doctor about this recently, as I have anxiety, the THC takes it away, I feel relaxed and get on with my life. I have had issues with chronic cannabis use in the past where when I stopped it did reveal a lot of underlying fear that had been bottled up. I am aware of THC and sleep, I will vape an hour or so before bed. I haven't experimented with the THC oil yet (finding it helpful during the day but it's not hitting the same as the vape!)

I agree that CBD seems to be over marketed, I do not currently take any CBD.

I agree that western science and symptomatic treatment have failed to capture the true holistic nature of human health (integrative medicine, biopsychosocial model), but that does not mean that science is useless. I practise yoga and pranayama in addition to transcendental meditation so I feel like I have those things down. I swim/cycle/run when time allows.

Thanks for the advice, I will look into this more.

 

[WisePenny]

I suppose it depends on where you are located as to whether CBD is 'ridiculously hyped' or 'over marketed'. Generally I find in my area, which is a few years a legal market medically and recreationally a few years now, that all Cannabis is 'over marketed'.

However, that has nothing to do efficacy. CBD is an anxiolytic, and in my experience does help to not only lower my overall stress level, but also helps to relieve acute anxiety, as well as prevents me from having any thc-related anxiety effects.

More on the original topic - I also generally avoid the higher temps that you define. I also have an apple watch, though I haven't paid much attention to the HRV (and honestly haven't quite understood it as well as I do after @muswolf 's explanation). I'll start paying attention to that.

 

[muswolf]

I suppose it depends on where you are located as to whether CBD is 'ridiculously hyped' or 'over marketed'. Generally I find in my area, which is a few years a legal market medically and recreationally a few years now, that all Cannabis is 'over marketed'.

However, that has nothing to do efficacy. CBD is an anxiolytic, and in my experience does help to not only lower my overall stress level, but also helps to relieve acute anxiety, as well as prevents me from having any thc-related anxiety effects.

More on the original topic - I also generally avoid the higher temps that you define. I also have an apple watch, though I haven't paid much attention to the HRV (and honestly haven't quite understood it as well as I do after @muswolf 's explanation). I'll start paying attention to that.

That's what my doctor said about the CBD too - it helps with stress and the negative side effects of THC.

Interesting! I actually made a free apple watch app to help people more easily understand and use HRV (by converting it to health points, HP, like a video game):

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/nurture/id1614679667

Give it a go (more explanation on HRV on the iPhone app once you download it).

Here is my data from last night (175°C in a Mighty boosted my HRV, 213°C in a TM dropped it severely):

https://imgur.com/G5vEJdG

Back to 175°C today and happy with it. Might try 190°C tonight for sleep. Will report back!

 

[Grass Yes]

Interesting! I actually made a free apple watch app to help people more easily understand and use HRV

...and now I understand the impetus for this thread.