Vaporbrothers VB2

[lazylightning]

Im fine with a bit higher temp. I actually do prefer the quicker vaporization / stronger effect. Flavor chasing is great for sometimes, but with being a medical patient, my #1 priority is the overall vapor quality.

I'm a medical user too and not a flavor chaser. I mostly mentioned flavor because your original question was about flavor. I find that the lower temp dabs actually help with my pain more...perhaps because there are more terps which have been shown to be part of the "entourage effect". The higher temps dabs from the VB2 work too but burn the back of my throat. Not trying to dissuade you from the VB2, but these are things I wish I'd known before deciding on a VB2.

 

[MileHighHuman]

I'm a medical user too and not a flavor chaser. I mostly mentioned flavor because your original question was about flavor. I find that the lower temp dabs actually help with my pain more...perhaps because there are more terps which have been shown to be part of the "entourage effect". The higher temps dabs from the VB2 work too but burn the back of my throat. Not trying to dissuade you from the VB2, but these are things I wish I'd known before deciding on a VB2.

I 100% agree with the entourage effect so that is interesting and glad you brought it up. Ill have to experiment with it some before i come to a conclusion.

I just hate the slower vaporization process. Which is why i prefer "higher" temps.

And ive actually found the Sublimator to be much smoother on me than my enail. I always use high temps with the Sub. So maybe its something our lungs react to in the materials that the certain vaporizer uses?This is another reason why I've been looking into the VB. I already own the dnail sapphire dish which is extremely nice, but I'm also really curious now to if this is one step above?

 

[lazylightning]

I 100% agree with the entourage effect so that is interesting and glad you brought it up. Ill have to experiment with it some before i come to a conclusion.

I just hate the slower vaporization process. Which is why i prefer "higher" temps.

And ive actually found the Sublimator to be much smoother on me than my enail. I always use high temps with the Sub. So maybe its something our lungs react to in the materials that the certain vaporizer uses?This is another reason why I've been looking into the VB. I already own the dnail sapphire dish which is extremely nice, but I'm also really curious now to if this is one step above?

If you already own a dnail sapphire dish I doubt you'd experience the VB2 as an upgrade. It's a different sort of machine and was really designed for waxy extracts before dabbing became popular.

Another thing I should mention is the amount of reclaim through the VB2 vs my enail setup. I used the Vapor Brothers Inline Bubbler that fits right on top of the dome. After dabbing a couple grams of shatter, the bubbler would be totally brown with reclaim and require a thorough cleaning. With my enail I can run 10 grams through and have less reclaim than just 2 grams through the VB2. I think this may have to do with the hot temp dabs condensing more in the bubbler water.

As far as others experiencing the heater burnout issue, take a look through the earlier posts or search for "heater" in the forum. There are enough others who have had the same issues I did with the heater.

 

[Vitolo]

My VB2 units have auto shut-off at 20 minutes.
You can go in and quickly turn it off and back on to keep it hot.
Very rare for me to do that, unless I forget and walk away with no hit, while waiting (or get distracted)
I try to stick within the 20 minutes, and then let 'er rest up till I am ready to go again.

 

[Cannabis Connoisseur]

@MileHighHuman I personally find my VB2 has a place in my arsenal as the HeavyWeight! Its a very, very temperamental machine. It reminds me of a Ferrari. Requires more serious maintenance than the average more regularly but, it out performs the average. I hit my VB2 when i want to get STONED!!! The hits are no where near as flavorful as Sappire and SiC to me, However the VB2 has a different flavor profile than those. My Sapphire and SiC would be smoked or barbecue vs Ceramic & Quartz Baked or Fried. Due to maintenance and levels of intensity that are capable, The VB2 is worth having as a weekend sports car not a daily driver! I can afford both so I do! Just my

Edit: Id like to reiterate the VB2 is Bruce Lee it kicks your ass! I just don't use it everyday! I also have my auto shutoff set to 45min

 

[MileHighHuman]

@MileHighHuman I personally find my VB2 has a place in my arsenal as the HeavyWeight! Its a very, very temperamental machine. It reminds me of a Ferrari. Requires more serious maintenance than the average more regularly but, it out performs the average. I hit my VB2 when i want to get STONED!!! The hits are no where near as flavorful as Sappire and SiC to me, However the VB2 has a different flavor profile than those. My Sapphire and SiC would be smoked or barbecue vs Ceramic & Quartz Baked or Fried. Due to maintenance and levels of intensity that are capable, The VB2 is worth having as a weekend sports car not a daily driver! I can afford both so I do! Just my

Edit: Id like to reiterate the VB2 is Bruce Lee it kicks your ass! I just don't use it everyday! I also have my auto shutoff set to 45min

This is just what i was expecting!

Without having experienced the VB, i had really related it to the Sublimator. No where near as tasty, but definitely creates stronger of an effect. Might be the vape signature. Or it might just be the vape. Lol. But either way i felt the VB would be very similar in that aspect which is why i have been looking into it a lot.

i think the 10 min auto shut off is only on the VB2.5 ?
45 minutes isn't too bad. But i will say an enail with no timer is best in my opinion.

Thank you

 

[lazylightning]

@MileHighHuman I personally find my VB2 has a place in my arsenal as the HeavyWeight! Its a very, very temperamental machine. It reminds me of a Ferrari. Requires more serious maintenance than the average more regularly but, it out performs the average. I hit my VB2 when i want to get STONED!!! The hits are no where near as flavorful as Sappire and SiC to me, However the VB2 has a different flavor profile than those. My Sapphire and SiC would be smoked or barbecue vs Ceramic & Quartz Baked or Fried. Due to maintenance and levels of intensity that are capable, The VB2 is worth having as a weekend sports car not a daily driver! I can afford both so I do! Just my

Edit: Id like to reiterate the VB2 is Bruce Lee it kicks your ass! I just don't use it everyday! I also have my auto shutoff set to 45min

This is so interesting to me. I'd been dabbing ~1/2g per day through the VB2 for months. When my enail came, I did a low-temp dab and was instantly more baked than I'd been in months. It was hard to function normally for the first week or so after switching over to the Liger and I was so impressed I never actually tried the VB2 again.

I think the perceived difference in effect might have a lot to do with vape signature, temp or both. When I used to vape mostly flower I had a pretty big vape collection and regularly switched them up for vape signature effect. I couldn't really say one was better than the others, but each one seemed especially good after not using it for a while.

Maybe I'll try a higher temp dab on my Ti enail just for kicks and see how baked I get off some familiar Cookie Wreck shatter.

@Cannabis Connoisseur, let us know if you decide to use your VB2 for a couple weeks straight and then switch to your dnail sapphire. I'd be interested to see if the dnail suddenly seems like the Ferrari.

 

[Vitolo]

Different Delivery systems most often provide different effects, especially one you have not tried.
Patients and their needs all vary also.
For me a double dab every couple of hours does not make me all that altered.
I do not use it for the "Bruce Lee, KIck Ass" factor, but rather to keep my time in the
vape room short for family, and still be well medicated.
When I want Kick Ass... I use flower (A great deal of it) in a longer session.
Perhaps 5-6 wands using the VB1

Once I became very accustomed to regular concentrate use, it seems flower
gives me a more powerful "alteration".
Can not give up one or the other though.
All forms of the medicine come in handy.

Edit:

I do not use it for the "Bruce Lee, KIck Ass" factor

Well... that is not always... hehehe.

 

[Cannabis Connoisseur]

This is so interesting to me. I'd been dabbing ~1/2g per day through the VB2 for months. When my enail came, I did a low-temp dab and was instantly more baked than I'd been in months. It was hard to function normally for the first week or so after switching over to the Liger and I was so impressed I never actually tried the VB2 again.

I think the perceived difference in effect might have a lot to do with vape signature, temp or both. When I used to vape mostly flower I had a pretty big vape collection and regularly switched them up for vape signature effect. I couldn't really say one was better than the others, but each one seemed especially good after not using it for a while.

Maybe I'll try a higher temp dab on my Ti enail just for kicks and see how baked I get off some familiar Cookie Wreck shatter.

@Cannabis Connoisseur, let us know if you decide to use your VB2 for a couple weeks straight and then switch to your dnail sapphire. I'd be interested to see if the dnail suddenly seems like the Ferrari.

Different Delivery systems most often provide different effects, especially one you have not tried.
Patients and their needs all vary also.
For me a double dab every couple of hours does not make me all that altered.
I do not use it for the "Bruce Lee, KIck Ass" factor, but rather to keep my time in the
vape room short for family, and still be well medicated.
When I want Kick Ass... I use flower (A great deal of it) in a longer session.
Perhaps 5-6 wands using the VB1

Once I became very accustomed to regular concentrate use, it seems flower
gives me a more powerful "alteration".
Can not give up one or the other though.
All forms of the medicine come in handy.

Edit:

Well... that is not always... hehehe.

@lazylightning it's totally the vape signature situation! I use my Dnail daily so when i pull out the VB2 it's like a new vape all over again! I had the VB2 first so when i got the Dnail i put the VB2 up for at least a month! It had better effects and flavor. Then i pulled the VB2 out and was blown away all over again. They stayed side by side for 2 months. The VB2 went through countless heaters but in the end I put the VB2 away because we couldn't function on it. It turned us to couch potatoes. That's one of the warnings in the instructions. Also I own a Liger 30mm Sapphire I don't own the Halo. I like the VB2 because it vaporizes all your material! Nothing to mop up afterwards or burn off! YOU'VE INHALED IT ALL! @Vitolo I've also found herb to be a better kickass device lately vs concentrates too! I wonder why! My EVO has been beating me senseless!!

 

[Vitolo]

It has been a while, so I thought I would chime in.... I still use my original VB2 once a day, and still have no issue.
I use it on high, and utilize the same cool-down procedure I have described here before.
Thanks @vaporbrothers for keeping me medicated properly for years now!

 

[lazylightning]

I was just doing some reading about the new research out on high temp dabs. I use to take a dozen or so super high temp dabs every day for a year and a half on the VB2 without a second thought. I thought others might want to educate themselves about high temp dabs and maybe try to master the elusive VB2 low temp dab.

 

[stickstones]

What are the temps on this thing? I forget...

 

[lazylightning]

What are the temps on this thing? I forget...

I'm not sure exactly. As I recall it was around 1,000*. In the quote below Linus implies it is well over 800*.

When I use VB2, I turn it to the highest setting and forget temperature. Over about 750 or 800F, the "leidenfrost effect" means the oils dance on the surface, held in the air above the plate by their own evaporating.

He also seems to think the VB2 really won't do low temp dabs very well, though I remember at least one person claiming it was possible.

Low temp dabs are best done on an e-nail with a well fitting carb cap IMO. Low temp in the VB2 is slower and a bit smoky (yes, I believe low surface temp allows the material to burn more).

Edit: found a couple more references to VB2 operating temps...

My unit gets above 1000 degrees F (500+ Cent)

The medium setting (slow & strong) is approx 700*F while the high setting (hot & fast) is 900-950*F.

The recent research shows hazardous methacrolein and benzene compounds at temps above 600 degrees, so to be safe I'd guess you'd have to set the VB2 on the lowest setting.

 

[stickstones]

Thanks! That's about what I remembered, so I think you got it. I wonder if anyone has successfully vaped on the first setting. I don't remember any discussion about that. I should break it out and give it a try. I always used the second setting, and that is now higher than I do on my other devices, but now that I'm in the sub 550 range that very first setting might work.

 

[lazylightning]

Thanks! That's about what I remembered, so I think you got it. I wonder if anyone has successfully vaped on the first setting. I don't remember any discussion about that. I should break it out and give it a try. I always used the second setting, and that is now higher than I do on my other devices, but now that I'm in the sub 550 range that very first setting might work.

I don't have mine any longer but I'd be interested to hear how the lowest setting works for you. I remember trying low temp on the VB2 and getting dabs that tasted a bit weird and then wouldn't burn off the ceramic disc without turning the temp to high for 15 minutes or so.

I think I agree with Linus that low temp dabs are best done on an enail with well fitting carb cap. The reason low temp dabs work is that the pressure is reduced under the carb cap. That reduces the heat necessary to vaporize the oil. If it wasn't for lowering the pressure with a carb cap and keeping the heat up, you'd have to use higher temps on an enail as well. I'm vaporizing at a confirmed dish temp of 390F on my Liger 30mm but until I put the carb cap on nothing much happens.

 

[Vitolo]

I wonder if anyone has successfully vaped on the first setting. I don't remember any discussion about that.

I have vaped on the low setting.
Flavor is great and it calls for a smaller dab to finish it in a hit.
I have a temperature sensor that says my low setting it 738º.

EDIT:
I have two units.
one has a high temp of 997º and the other has a high temp of 972º

 

[lazylightning]

Here's a link to the full study on dabbing temps if anyone's interested.

The 403C data point below would be 757F...close to what @Vitolo measured his low dish temp to be. At 322C (612F) there were no detectable levels of methacrolein. 455C is 850F which is normal high operating temp for VB2. 526C is 978F which is the range I was taking my VB2 hits for so many months.

"The dabbing experiments in the current study produced benzene—a known carcinogen—at levels many times higher than the ambient air, the researchers noted. It also produced high levels of methacrolein, a chemical similar to acrolein, another carcinogen.

“‘The results of these studies clearly indicate that dabbing, although considered a form of vaporization, may, in fact, deliver significant amounts of toxic degradation products,’ the authors concluded. ‘The difficulty users find in controlling the nail temperature put users at risk of exposing themselves to not only methacrolein but also benzene. Additionally, the heavy focus on terpenes as additives seen as of late in the cannabis industry is of great concern due to the oxidative liability of these compounds when heated."

 

[vaporbrothers]

Good topic!!! I still believe that dabs on a hot surface evaporate before they experience the high temperature, but for sure the smoke from residue burning off shouldn't be inhaled. Of course part of the function of this device is to clean itself back to pure white. It's hard to measure this but the residue remaining after the first big puff of vapor probably gets as hot as the surface. The device was inspired by hot knifing and originally used with bubble & solid chunks, both which would taste nasty if the temp wasn't at the highest. Once the stuff actually started to burn the hit would be stopped and the remains would be burned off (and not inhaled)

This makes me worry about the not-super-low dabs that most people take on glass rigs, because the dabs settle and turn black. I've only seen a handful of people control temp so low that the dabs never really turn dark at all. Their glass stays perfectly clean because they can swab out the residue as soon as it's cool.

For VB2.0 (No longer produced) the earliest units like @Vitolo were capable of 1000F, with L setting for essential oils aromatherapy (not dabs), M setting at about 800F. All units made in the past few years have L at 500F, M around 700F, H around 850F. VB2.0 does not control its temperature exactly so it heats up another 100F over 30 min or so. If you're wondering the temp settings of yours are you can message me your serial# and I can check what we set it at. Check your temp using a meter like this (if out of stock on the site- DM to get directly from me)

VB2.0 was replaced with VB2.5 which solved the delicate heater problem by replacing it with an indestructible silicon nitride heater. It controls its temp precisely using a thermocouple (but without a temp display) and is able to do any temperature 500-800F. Heat up time is only 30 seconds from cold. This thread is good for general VB2 discussion, but just so you know VB2.5 has it's own thread here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vaporbrothers-2-5.18715/

 

[lazylightning]

Good topic!!! I still believe that dabs on a hot surface evaporate before they experience the high temperature

I don't believe this for 2 reasons.

#1 - The VB2 dabs burned my throat and made my voice a little hoarse for a few minutes afterward whereas low-temp dabs never have this effect for me.

#2 - The research cited above actually proved that dab surface temps above 700F released toxic compounds and the surface temps of the VB2 are well above that.


Word to the wise...if your actual dab surface temp is 700F or above you are inhaling toxins.

 

[Vitolo]

I use my unit on occasion for lower temp dabs (set to lower power), when I am "flavor grabbing".

 

[lazylightning]

I use my unit on occasion for lower temp dabs (set to lower power), when I am "flavor grabbing".

That's less toxic than higher temps but you said your low temp setting measured 738F so that is still considered a high-temp dab and still results in elevated toxins in the vapor.

 

[vaporbrothers]

I don't believe this for 2 reasons.

#1 - The VB2 dabs burned my throat and made my voice a little hoarse for a few minutes afterward whereas low-temp dabs never have this effect for me.

#2 - The research cited above actually proved that dab surface temps above 700F released toxic compounds and the surface temps of the VB2 are well above that.


Word to the wise...if your actual dab surface temp is 700F or above you are inhaling toxins.

I totally believe your experience is as you describe, just doesn't seem to match up with mine or what I've heard from users. There is a too-hot temp for me for sure. But I also got that burned feeling when turning the machines down, letting the dabs settle into the surface of the heater rather than evaporate right away. Torched dabs felt that way many times. Only the lowest temp dabs (Where you're able to swab the glass clean with a Qtip) didn't feel hot/burning, but they hurt for different reasons (THC is an irritant). Patients like @Vitolo told me the substances they need for pain don't really come out at those low temps.

I believe #2 but am never surprised to learn that I inhale more toxins when I try to avoid inhaling other toxins. If the study was about another chemical, it would be just as concerning, and would have it's own set of temperatures to avoid, or products to avoid. As mentioned in my other thread... Until we're all in electric cars, we inhale benzene-rich raw gasoline at the fuel pump, enough to make a study go berserk. Then when we're finally in electric cars, we'll notice the vinyl surfaces baking in the sun every day, then we'll realize we're smoking herbs doused with chemicals. Eventually we realize that our harm reduction methods lessen the harm of life, not eliminates them completely.

 

[lazylightning]

I totally believe your experience is as you describe, just doesn't seem to match up with mine or what I've heard from users. There is a too-hot temp for me for sure. But I also got that burned feeling when turning the machines down, letting the dabs settle into the surface of the heater rather than evaporate right away. Torched dabs felt that way many times. Only the lowest temp dabs (Where you're able to swab the glass clean with a Qtip) didn't feel hot/burning, but they hurt for different reasons (THC is an irritant). Patients like @Vitolo told me the substances they need for pain don't really come out at those low temps.

I believe #2 but am never surprised to learn that I inhale more toxins when I try to avoid inhaling other toxins. If the study was about another chemical, it would be just as concerning, and would have it's own set of temperatures to avoid, or products to avoid. As mentioned in my other thread... Until we're all in electric cars, we inhale benzene-rich raw gasoline at the fuel pump, enough to make a study go berserk. Then when we're finally in electric cars, we'll notice the vinyl surfaces baking in the sun every day, then we'll realize we're smoking herbs doused with chemicals. Eventually we realize that our harm reduction methods lessen the harm of life, not eliminates them completely.

I suppose if you're comparing between high and low temps on a VB2 that it would make little difference to throat irritation. After all, @Vitolo reported low setting of 738F for his VB2 and that is still very hot and considered a high-temp dab.

I currently dab at 460F measured surface temp with carb cap and never have any throat irritation or coughing. It's like night and day for me, but then it's about half the temp of the VB2 so that makes sense. My girlfriend has used both my VB2 and Liger banger hundreds of times and she has had an identical experience.

Just because we are exposed to lots of environmental toxins doesn't mean we should be willing to voluntarily breathe known carcinogens deep into our lungs on a regular basis. I was under the impression that Vapor Brothers has always prided itself on caring about its customers' health and producing healthy vaporizing products. It'd be a shame to see that commitment fall by the wayside because a current product was discovered to be unhealthy. Have you considered inventing a new and better model that will do healthy low-temp dabs?

 

[Vitolo]

That's less toxic than higher temps but you said your low temp setting measured 738F so that is still considered a high-temp dab and still results in elevated toxins in the vapor.

I have tweaked it as low as 650 for some low temp action. 738 gave me more relief, so there I left it.

Patients like @Vitolo told me the substances they need for pain don't really come out at those low temps.

That's what I am saying.
tweaked my unit up pretty close to 1000 in the early days. I must have had some toxins for breakfast then....
But I have calmed things down since.

Spoiler: Dark Secret

I have

 

[lazylightning]

I have tweaked it as low as 650 for some low temp action. 738 gave me more relief, so there I left it.

That's what I am saying.
tweaked my unit up pretty close to 1000 in the early days. I must have had some toxins for breakfast then....
But I have calmed things down since.

Spoiler: Dark Secret

I have

I'd argue that 650F is still a high-temp dab as anything 600F and above produces measurable toxins.

I do agree that different temps affect which compounds form and vaporize. I sometimes turn my Liger banger up quite a bit from my usual 460F for higher-temp effects, but with the carb cap I can still get those effects at significantly lower temps than my VB2. This is because the carb cap lowers the air pressure in the bucket which allows vaporization at lower temps.