Vapor Brownies (ABV Cannaoil)

jeffp

psychonaut/retired
Tuck said:
My last batch, I didn't strain at all. I was trying JeffP's method from halfway through the thread. I made it a powder with the coffee grinder and warmed it up in oil and skipped the straining. It worked real well and I think that's my preferred method now. I used chocolate chips and pecans to make the texture right.
That's funny - I have a legacy. Well, pot brownies, it's something.
Seriously when you consider how powerful and efficient eating weed is it's sort of strange that it's gotten in general only short or peripheral shrift. It's an "extra" or a "novelty." I feel that this direction warrants at least as much attention as vaporizing, and there's lots to say and do in terms of experimentation and creativity.

**Edit***

Special thanks to VTac for providing a great foundational recipe - everything we're doing is piggybacking off of what he put forth.
 
jeffp,
Hi all! Just got into vaping a few weeks ago and I needed something to do with my avb and came across this thread and wanted to share my experience. This is my first time cooking with herbs and I'm not much of a cook to boot, but I must say, this was a great first experience!

First! Weighing out the avb...

8.5g of MFLB avb
bakingandvaping002.jpg


8.5g of EQ avb
bakingandvaping003.jpg


I tried a bowl of MFLB avb in my EQ and didn't really enjoy the taste so I figured I do a half and half for more potency.

Then I started the crushing process. Had a half a cup of avb and ended up with a quarter cup. Used the jar I keep my MFLB to crush it.
bakingandvaping005.jpg


Close up the final product before hitting the oil.
bakingandvaping006.jpg


I thought I spent a lot of time on the crushing part, but as you can see from the pic I didn't crush it as fine as I thought I did...
bakingandvaping007.jpg


Oh, I used 1/2 cup of vegetable oil and didn't strain due to messiness and loss. Hence, trying to grind the avb really fine. It didn't smell the house as bad as I thought it would and the only time I noticed was whe I would leave the house and reenter. Oh, and since I didn't strain I didn't let the oil cool and just threw it in the batter mix still hot. Almost cooked the eggs I had sitting in there...wasn't good lol So I mixed and the end result was real thick. Almost added water to the mix but said screw it.

Here's the final results.
bakingandvaping010.jpg


I actually let that cool, cut it into 8 squares, individually wrapped them in saran wrap and put them in a freezer bag and stuck them in the freezer. I ate some crumbs and licked the bowl but since it was so thick, wasn't much there.

So, went to sleep, woke a few hours later and on an empty stomach...
bakeandvape001.jpg


Since I had nothing to do I started by eating half since this is my first time. That was around midnight last night. Had a buddy come over and he took a square and ate half. Unfortunately for him, he seemed to have some allergic reaction to the brownies and ended up throwing up on his way home, but admitted he was royally medicated. I finally finished my square and am happily medicated. I'm a little bummed out on my tolerance as I'm working on the half my buddy left.

Thanks so much for this post! I appreciate all the feedback and advice. I have to say I'm very happy with the results! The brownies have somewhat of a "woodsy" taste, my buddy said it tasted like vaped brownies...I really like them! I'm hoping it's going to be a hit for the people around me that doesn't smoke but would like to get medicated and see what their opinion on this is.

Thanks again! :D

Oh and I used a strain called Tangerine a buddy of mine grows that I would classify as medically high grade, but again, this is opinion...could be a fact lol
 
SuperSpliff,

buck824

Well-Known Member
jeffp said:
I made brownies yesterday using abhs' recommendations including the vinegar and salt; the mixture sat for four days away from light, airtight.
I may have an opportunity in the next couple of days to do some cooking, and wanted to know if the leeching method takes the full four days, or will it work only sitting one or two days?

Also, does this method cause a strong aroma?

Thanks!
 
buck824,

jeffp

psychonaut/retired
buck824 said:
jeffp said:
I made brownies yesterday using abhs' recommendations including the vinegar and salt; the mixture sat for four days away from light, airtight.
I may have an opportunity in the next couple of days to do some cooking, and wanted to know if the leeching method takes the full four days, or will it work only sitting one or two days?

Also, does this method cause a strong aroma?

Thanks!
do the four days to be on the safe side and there's virtually no smell whatsoever during the leeching period, and virtually no smell when the brownies are baking.

i believe that the smell is indicative of lost THC dissipating into the air.
 
jeffp,

herbgirl

cannabis aromatherapist
What a killer thread! Just got my MFLB a few weeks back and i'm trying to decide what to do with my first round of ABV.

As an herbalist, I make oil infusions all the time. Heat generally extracts faster and may damage active constituents in whatever herb you are infusing if you get it too hot, leaching is more gentle, but takes longer.

I prefer the leaching method in a cool dark place, shaking every few days. I start all tinctures and infusions on the new moon and strain the menstrum (spent plant material) out 60 days later. I will most likely do this with my abv this time and use the resulting oil in my chewy brownie recipe.

Adding the vinegar to the oil infusion will probably help extract things a bit better, herbalists often make straight vinegar tinctures, but i've never heard of them being used in the same preparation. Sometimes grain alcohol is added to an oil infusion and then cooked off after straining, but this is an advanced technique and i haven't tried it yet. It is supposed to extract very thoroughly, i would assume the oil would be fab for brownies.

Even though most of you seem to use boxed mixes, i thought i'd ask here - If i grind it fine and don't strain it out of the oil after infusing, do i have to reduce the flour in the recipe by approximately the amount of ABV used? It seems that if i do not do this i may end up with dry and crumbly.
 
herbgirl,

jeffp

psychonaut/retired
Welcome herbgirl...
Interesting concepts you bring forth. Perhaps beginning the leeching process on the new moon has a value, we's guys don't know everything.
As far as reducing the flour, I would say it's probably not worth being that exacting. A half cup of ABV is a drop in the bucket compared with the brownie mix but you probably
could get away with adding a bit more oil during the brownie preparation part.

I wonder if 60 days versus 4 days is going to make a huge difference.
 
jeffp,

Tuck

Well-Known Member
So, thanks to herbgirl, I've been reading about herbal oil infusions to try to figure out the best oil to use for the leeching and vegetable oil is okay but a lot of herbal oil infusions are done with sunflower seed oil. Be careful with peanut oil and olive oil. Apparently those can go rancid and should be refrigerated.

A common suggestion for the herbal infused oils was to heat the oil over a double boiler before adding to the herb. The only thing I can't find is just how hot to heat it up to. Most of the sites I found on herbal infused oil weren't very specific about quantity or temperature. Except one site, it said for the first 24 hours keep it at 113F/45C which seemed like a real pain in the ass.

Of course that site said you could make double and triple strength oil infusions by straining the oil and then reusing it with another batch of herb. That sounded interesting, but it'll be a while before I can try that out. Maybe the guy with the 80g of abv can try that with 1 cup of oil and 20g of abv and after a week strain the oil into another 20g of duff. Wait another week and cook up a double strength double batch of brownies, straining optional.
 
Tuck,

jeffp

psychonaut/retired
For me, I can glean one good suggestion from a complete approach and apply it to my next experiment. Regarding Tuck's post , I am curious about sunflower seed oil. We've been using canola oil with good results but I'd be willing to try sunflower. I've also heard that lecithin oil works great as a transport agent.
 
jeffp,

AGBeer

Lost in Thought
Even moreso - have you tried coconut oil? I know we use it in our capsules because of its high fat content (with no satties in the fatties)

How does it translate to cooking though?
 
AGBeer,

herbgirl

cannabis aromatherapist
jeffp, traditional herbalist almost always start tinctures infusions, etc, on the new moon because the station of the moon does influence how easily the compounds dissolve. gravitational pull or some crap like that - not sure exactly why it works, but i was taught to do it that way. have not tried it both ways so i have no basis for comparison. a lil hokey, but oh well, it works!

as for the leaching (not leeching lol) process i was always under the impression that a longer soak will always draw out more goodies, up to a certain point. most herbal tinctures (oil, alcohol, vinegar, honey or glycerin based) sit in a cool dark place anywhere from 30 - 90 days or so shaking every day, after which you are dealing with diminishing returns. They are not usually quick propositions, so that's where the heat comes in - when you need speed. Also i believe some compounds are more stubborn than others and the gentle heat coaxes them out more efficiently - especially compounds locked in roots or barks. these 5 day tinctures fly in the face of what i know - but hey - whatever works for ya!

I think when i do the brownies (no box mix here - we're talkin' my very own scratch recipe here droooooolllllll) i'll knock back the flour just a bit to compensate, they are chewy and any added dry stuff may throw off the ratio and make them crumbly. ack! My main man, Alton Brown says that baking is all about precision and technique and he is dead on. Ever eaten a heavy cake? usually it's bad technique. 1/2 cup of anything in a recipe will alter it significantly so I feel the need to adjust for it., just wanted to see if anybody else did.

Tuck, any base oil (as in oily fatty oils - not essential) will work with any herb, some just work better or have different properties.
For example, if i'm making an herbal infused oil to be used in a salve for inflammation, i would choose the base or carrier oil for it's anti inflammatory properties to compliment the properties of the herbs, butters and essential oils i add to complete the salve.

i guess the same principal applies here. So sunflower seed oil (really, any edible oil) should work well for an ingestion application because fat will unlock fat soluble compounds like THC. I would probably use coconut oil because i haven't tried it as a base before and i'm subbing out for butter int he recipe, coconut oil will provide just the little firmness i need to be able to cream the fat and sugar together in the recipe.
Olive, grapeseed, safflower, rapeseed, soy lecithin (soy fat really) etc. will all work just fine. I assume you would just choose the one that provides the best extraction effects, only determinable through trial and error.

my herbal intuition tells me that hemp seed oil may give you a more complete extraction of the goodies :brow:, but i have no proof of this - strictly the accumulation of 20 years of intuition.

The thing about herbalism is that it is very much a 'bit of this - bit of that' type thing. when these methods were being developed, measuring things using units wasn't common, so you get directions like this - a handful of dried herb and enough solvent to cover by a bit. store menstrum (mix of herbs and solvent - a nod to the Goddess) in a cool dark place, shaking daily. after it looks right, strain and bottle in amber glass and discard spent herb. clear as mud eh? also called the "Simplers Method"

heating herbal concoctions is no different. My crockpot gets too hot, so i do use a double boiler. the oil should be pretty warm, but still sorta comfortable to the fingertips and should sit at that temp (no sizzling or blackening of the herb, of course) with the herb in it until it 'looks right' ie, it looks like the herb is spent. I strain out the solids, compost them and then bottle in mason jars that are kept in cabinets to block light for storage. this really develops with experience, every herb seems to tincture a wee bit differently. I am a freak about my kitchen thermometer and usually take temp readings on everything for doneness (even breads and cakes!), but thermie died a few weeks back and hasn't yet been replaced, so i cant really give you numbers.

you absolutely can re-infuse oil ad nauseum/infinitum- just understand that the more heat is applied, the more product breakdown you get. the reinfusion is probably best applied with the leaching method.

as for coconut oil in baking - My son has severe food allergies so i am used to subbing out ingredients. My thinking is that coconut oil would act like a blend of butter and margarine or perhaps like shortening in baking- some firmness, but low melt point and no water like butter or margarine. it also helps keep baked goods moister, that's why it's in things with freakishly long shelf lives like little debbies and such.

Cooking with it may be a whole 'nother ballgame as cooking generally involves higher heat which may break down the goodies - not sure.

Glad i've been able to contribute baking, aromatherapy and herbalism are like my favorite things to do- it's got me thinking about all kinds of cool stuff i can do with this ABV now.
 
herbgirl,

sLug215

Well-Known Member
Herbgirl, thanks for that post. Learned from just about every word. Looking forward to all of the new abv uses you can create!
 
sLug215,

buck824

Well-Known Member
I have learned a great deal in this post as well. I had a question that I wanted to double check on---the leeching method jeff p used, is four days, and herbgirl does it for 60---when I originally set aside the oil and weed, I was planning on baking tomorrow, but will have to be delayed for a week. Should my oil be ok to bake with after 11 days?

Thanks for all your help!
 
buck824,

herbgirl

cannabis aromatherapist
buck, if it's not been strained, just keep shaking it daily till you feel like straining it out and cooking with it. if it's already been strained, just keep it well sealed in a cool dark place and it'll be ready when you need it.

Note, I have no experience doing oil infusions with mj, just many other herbs. I may be mistaken, but I have always felt that long and slow is best for most herbal applications to extract the maximum possible components, however this is once again intuition. i have no scientific basis for this. I come from the (sort of) old school.
If people have had good results from such a short period - Go for it!
 
herbgirl,

buck824

Well-Known Member
Thanks. I have not strained it yet, so my next question is . . . to strain or not to strain?
 
buck824,

Tuck

Well-Known Member
Buck, I wouldn't strain it. I'd store it in a dark cool place like a kitchen cabinet or if you are worried about it going rancid, keep it in the fridge. When you are ready to cook with it, give it a smell check. If it smells rancid or rotten pitch it. Otherwise, cook when you can.

Last night, I had a thought about using fresh buds in the leaching method. I was thinking about decarboxylizing the buds for maximum potency, a la green dragon (alcohol tinctures)? Green Dragon recipes recommend decarboxylizing the bud by heating it up to around 200-220F for 10 minutes. An old vaporbros youtube video that I can't find anymore, suggested using your whip style vaporizer at just below vaping temps to do this. Another green dragon youtube video said to put your buds in the oven for a bit. ABV has been decarboxylized already. Any thoughts on this?

Or will it decarboxylize when it cooks?
 
Tuck,

herbgirl

cannabis aromatherapist
Tuck said:
Buck, I wouldn't strain it. I'd store it in a dark cool place like a kitchen cabinet or if you are worried about it going rancid, keep it in the fridge. When you are ready to cook with it, give it a smell check. If it smells rancid or rotten pitch it. Otherwise, cook when you can.

Last night, I had a thought about using fresh buds in the leaching method. I was thinking about decarboxylizing the buds for maximum potency, a la green dragon (alcohol tinctures)? Green Dragon recipes recommend decarboxylizing the bud by heating it up to around 200-220F for 10 minutes. An old vaporbros youtube video that I can't find anymore, suggested using your whip style vaporizer at just below vaping temps to do this. Another green dragon youtube video said to put your buds in the oven for a bit. ABV has been decarboxylized already. Any thoughts on this?

Or will it decarboxylize when it cooks?
I wouldn't strain it yet either, just remember to shake every day or so. if you do go with the fridge. some oils can become cloudy in the fridge, but this does not affect quality, when it warms it will clear.

I tried the decarboxylation (w/ cured mids) in my excalibur dehydrator (forgot what temp/time) a few months back and i don't think it was successful. The everclear tincture i made with it was very green and not very potent at all. Smelled amazing though. The plant material out of the dehydrator looked & smelled 'right' according to the research i did. Hubby and I smoked it after (blech, where is the vomiting icon?, but we had to give it shot) and had no effects from it.

not sure whether the decarboxylation process would have any effect on the outcome of an oil infusion, i wish i had enough money and bud to experiment with it! Never heard of using the decarboxylation process with any other herbs, so far as I know that is unique to cannabis i think because it relates to cannabis specific components, but gently heating the menstrum can sometimes help extract certain things.

I would assume that decarboxylation would occur while baking seeing as most baking temps are around 350ish.

If you are decarboxylating the herb, then infusing oil and baking it would that be too much heat?

I'm not sure what the 'magic temp' is or at what point the goodies are destroyed. I'd need to do some more digging for that. This is really getting my brain going!!!

It's sad that in the 2 dozen someodd herbal reference books i have, cannabis is only mentioned in a remotely positive light in three of them.
 
herbgirl,

stonerwithaboner

Well-Known Member
Hi. I just had to register to thank you guys for such a great recipe. I used the 4 day leaching method with canola oil, vinegar, and salt. Far and away the highest I've ever been. I used 20 grams of heavily vaped herb, (mostly black). I didn't use all of the oil, so i imagine that about 15 grams made it into the batch. with all the talk of people using lightly vaped herb and fortifying it with fresh mids, I didn't think the brownies were going to be that potent. though the following saga sounds a little heavy, nothing terrible came of it.

when i first tried them, i couldn't taste the weed at all, so i suspected it was a bust, but about an hour into it, things were ramping up rather nicely. about four hours in, i was pretty hungry, so i went to my favorite mexican restaurant and had some tostadas, after i finished eating, i was having a hard time focusing and i started to get that "uh oh" feeling. before you know it, i'm on the floor, looking up and there's a crowd of people around me going "man, are you alright?". i couldn't even move my legs. they called an ambulance. i tried to talk the paramedics into just taking me home, but they were having none of it. so after two failed attempts at getting an iv in, (ouch!). they took me the emergency room. i told the doctor, "look i just made some medicinal brownies, i'll be fine once i sleep it off". but they were doubtful that that had anything to do with it, (i've never fainted from mj consumption before or from anything, for that matter). one catscan, blood samples and a saline drip later, i'm feeling fine and walk out of the ER to hail a cab home.

i had only eaten one small corner piece. additional notes, i ground it very finely with a coffee grinder and did not strain out the plant matter.

kind of sad to think of the times i tried to make brownies the traditional way and failed, (due to overheating, i suspect). there's really no need for a frying pan, unless you need them right away.
 
stonerwithaboner,

Plotinus

Well-Known Member
I call bullshit on this story. No offense to our new member (no pun intended) but it's just too crazy.
 
Plotinus,

vapirtoo

Well-Known Member
Hey a really good "boner" could make you faint. :lol: . A friend of mine who is an old" head", smoked some stuff and he was laid out on his back talking to the para-medics, so I kind of believe. :2c:
 
vapirtoo,

stonerwithaboner

Well-Known Member
Plotinus said:
I call bullshit on this story. No offense to our new member (no pun intended) but it's just too crazy.
what would be my motive to make up a story like this? nothing that crazy happened, i blacked out. i had the misfortune of being in a public place when that happened, so paramedics were involved.
 
stonerwithaboner,

AGBeer

Lost in Thought
Ouch, that sucks bud. Im sorry to hear that...

Welcome to the world of edibles. I remember one time I made from brownies from fresh, ate about 4 and gave my wife 2. Catch is she never smokes.

Needless to say, several hours later (read : middle of the night) I am awakened to a hysterical wife thinking that she is going to die (but still knowing better) MAD AS SHIT AT ME :lol:

You have to figure this was the first time I tried my hand at edibles. Since then, ive had a few more batches. But Id be afraid to give her HALF of one of my ABV brownies :brow:
 
AGBeer,

jeffp

psychonaut/retired
I'll respond more in detail later but the last time I ate brownies through the leeching method I felt a little dizzy and off balance during its peak so I kinda understand...
 
jeffp,

HiC

Well-Known Member
I dunno about this guy's ER story either, but it's possible. If he has a low-tolerance and ate it on an empty stomach, he could get that fucked up. Does the leeching method add an extra level of potency, too?

I actually made a batch this weekend that knocked me on my high-tolerance ass, much to my surprise. I made the original recipe months ago with around 10g ABV using the straining method (no leeching). They turned out pretty weak and I ended up eating half the pan with only minimal effects. This time, I didn't strain at all and used around 18g ABV (no leeching again). I cut the brownies into 9 pieces and ate 2 of them on a half-empty stomach, not expecting much. Well, an hour or so later, my body started feeling incredibly heavy and my mind began cycling though horrible, horrible thoughts like crazy. I couldn't close my eyes or move them from a fixed spot without feeling like I was tumbling around in a clothes dryer. It sucked bigtime but I didn't freak out and go to the doctor. After a VERY good night's sleep (best I've had in years), I could still feel the effects well into the next day (although weakened to a slight buzz). I'll only eat one piece next time, at most, that's for sure. Maybe not even that much. Yikes!
 
HiC,

stonerwithaboner

Well-Known Member
AGBeer said:
Ouch, that sucks bud. Im sorry to hear that...

Welcome to the world of edibles. I remember one time I made from brownies from fresh, ate about 4 and gave my wife 2. Catch is she never smokes.

Needless to say, several hours later (read : middle of the night) I am awakened to a hysterical wife thinking that she is going to die (but still knowing better) MAD AS SHIT AT ME :lol:

You have to figure this was the first time I tried my hand at edibles. Since then, ive had a few more batches. But Id be afraid to give her HALF of one of my ABV brownies :brow:
It really wasn't so tragic, just a little embarrassing. the ER was actually quite a trip, albeit a morbid one. the patients were so aggressive, the guy in the bed next to me was threatening the nurse cause the iv hurt so bad, i actually recorded some of it on my iphone, (is it possible to post mp3's on this site? perhaps that would satisfy those who doubt the veracity of this tale, no names are said, so privacy wouldn't be an issue).

i've had scary edible experiences with firecrackers before, fortunately i could just crawl into bed and ride it out. but with this one, i was thinking of that poor cop, who made pot brownies from some evidence he had confiscated. he and his wife freaked out and he called 911 and was convinced his wife was about to die. i suppose everyone here saw that youtube video.
 
stonerwithaboner,

stonerwithaboner

Well-Known Member
HiC said:
I dunno about this guy's ER story either, but it's possible. If he has a low-tolerance and ate it on an empty stomach, he could get that fucked up. Does the leeching method add an extra level of potency, too?

I actually made a batch this weekend that knocked me on my high-tolerance ass, much to my surprise. I made the original recipe months ago with around 10g ABV using the straining method (no leeching). They turned out pretty weak and I ended up eating half the pan with only minimal effects. This time, I didn't strain at all and used around 18g ABV (no leeching again). I cut the brownies into 9 pieces and ate 2 of them on a half-empty stomach, not expecting much. Well, an hour or so later, my body started feeling incredibly heavy and my mind began cycling though horrible, horrible thoughts like crazy. I couldn't close my eyes or move them from a fixed spot without feeling like I was tumbling around in a clothes dryer. It sucked bigtime but I didn't freak out and go to the doctor. After a VERY good night's sleep (best I've had in years), I could still feel the effects well into the next day (although weakened to a slight buzz). I'll only eat one piece next time, at most, that's for sure. Maybe not even that much. Yikes!
which part of my story do you find incredible? do you think that one could not faint from edibles? as for my tolerance, i vape most evenings, but have low body fat, which i've read helps keep tolerance low. i understand that stories told on the internet should be met with scrutiny, but this isn't some ghost story.

edited to add that i always consume edibles on an empty stomach.
 
stonerwithaboner,
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