Discontinued Vapir NO2

[stonemonkey55]

Not even close - probably about 20 hits to finish a bowl that is comparably sized to the Supremes. Trade off is that no torch is needed in between. I prefer to take Supreme hits despite the inconvenience because I can still finish my bowls quicker. The woody test of the supreme is similar to that of the PD, the plastic taste in the NO2 is much more prevalent.

 

[thevapedcrusader]

salutations stonemonkey et al, you might want to try those foaming denture cleaning tablets or some baby bottle sanitizer like Milton's, you're gonna need the latter soon enough anyway... And on that note, my warmest most heartfelt congratulations on your impending fatherhood! Peace peoples

 

[luchiano]

I like those idea thevapedcrusader!

Also let me congratulate you stonemonkey on the baby.

Instead of cigars you should give out vapes

 

[claypigeon]

Hello all, new to the forum but have been using the NO2 for about 3 weeks. Here's my 2 cents.

I am very happy with it and I would recommend it, and I have no issues with a plastic taste.

re the plastic taste. Out of the box there was a bit of a plastic smell/taste if you were to take draw on the NO2 (hot or cold). I did do a bit of a burn in for about 30 min or so at 400 deg to clear it of residue before I started using it. I also soaked the tube (per the instructions) in hot water first and maybe that with the burn in helped clean out any of the plastic taste/smell that might of came from the whip. I can state that my NO2 has no plastic taste/smell at this time, I think it cleared after the first or second use, which makes me wonder if stonemonkey55 might have a defective unit where something plastic is getting warm near the air intake on his unit, creating a fume. If plastic is heating up near the air intake every time it is used, I could see how it could keep tasting plasticly.

Re cleaning, I would NOT use soap, use a synthetic detergent. Soap is fat based which gives it a tendency to bind with minerals which end up leaving deposits / films, e.g. soapy film. If it was me I would use a detergent that is dye and perfume free. I would use something like All clear or Tide clear (perfume and dye free laundry detergent), for example, create a dilute solution with water and then use a soft tooth brush if you felt you needed to scrub it. Basically this is a similar mixture to what I used to use in my ultrasonic to clean jewelry before work with a torch. The piece needs to be clean with no chemical residues or bad things happen. Detergent is a synthetic surfactant that helps clear unwanted oils by reducing the surface tension of the water allowing the water to emulsify with those oils and lift dirt. Alternatively ethanol might be a good choice, but it is a solvent vs a surfactant, it works by dissolving the undesired chemical, but I am not sure how the components in a NO2 would react to any solvent, my gut is I doubt it would hurt most plastic.

Well, there's my 2 cents, Good luck.

Best

Clay

 

[Rudy Rudiger]

Welcom to FC Clay!!


Do you have experience with any other vaporizers?

Not that I dont believe you or anything, but SM has a pretty solid reputation. Knowing that Vapir has had this problem in the past, if SM says the new vapir model tastes plastic, its hard to disagree.

How would you describe the hits out of the NO2?

 

[claypigeon]

Welcom to FC Clay!!


Do you have experience with any other vaporizers?

Not that I dont believe you or anything, but SM has a pretty solid reputation. Knowing that Vapir has had this problem in the past, if SM says the new vapir model tastes plastic, its hard to disagree.

How would you describe the hits out of the NO2?

I am new to vaps, and I am not questioning anyone's experience, I can't give a comparative qualitative review with other vapes, rather I am just sharing mine experience and that I am not having the same long term issue that is sounds like SM has. I have no reason to doubt his experience with the NO2. All I can say is I dont appear to have the long term plastic taste issue that he is having. Which makes me wonder if he has some kind of defective unit if it is as bad as he states. Hell, If all my hits tasted like plastic I would not be using it. Or it could be it is the same for both of us, I am just not sensitive to it and he really is.

Re, how would I describe the hists out of the NO2; First, I set mine to 365F as the starting temp and I give it about 30 seconds at that temp b4 my first hit. The first hit is the best, like a warm moist hit (like inhaling humid air after being in a dry room) with a rich taste of the herb. After 2 or 3 hits, to me, the hits start feel dryer, not sure how many more hits I get but it is quite a few until if vaps out. A few times I have cranked it up in stages up to 400F but really after hitting it for quite a while @ 365f it gets fairly cached out, I don't think I am getting anything else much out of the herb past 365/375. Once it starts to cache out, it starts to taste like toasted wood, for lack of a better description, not a bad taste, not at all smoke like but I dont think I am getting thing positive from it.

My biggest complaint or issue is the resin that is building up in the whip and near where the whip connects to the tops of NO2. I am getting some very viscous sticky resin (like a light syrup) that has a tendency to build up and leak a small amount where the whip attaches to the NO2. This creates a secondary issue of lubricating that connection which can be a bit messy, if the whip comes off. Not a big mess, but if it touches anything, it makes a sticky mess. The chamber behind the top screen also gets buildup of this resin. Let me be clear it the volume of resin is perhaps a drop or 2 and this is after maybe vaping a quarter to a third of an ounce with the NO2.

BTW thanks for the welcome

 

[Wolface]

Now that we have a general idea of how the No2 works and performs(and tastes!) now comes the durability factor, Test on gentlemen!

 

[Rudy Rudiger]

Going back on my word, I ordered an NO2 today. Whatever, only $150 and Ive done enough research. It should be here tommorow, Im impatient with delivery. Add it the collection.

More importantly, I called Vapir today just to ask some questions. I was really suprised how easy it was to get a hold of someone who knew what they were talking about. Customer service was actually spot on. Didnt expect that. They even offered to replace the current unit with a brand new one, and were willing to answer all the questions I had. If you got questions, call them up. Pretty impressed with Vapir, two thumbs up for customer service.

Anyway in my inquiry I lied to them in that I told them I had already purchased an NO2 and that it was emitting a plastic taste. Basically the same things SM was saying. I really do not like lying to people, I cant stress that enough. So I bought one right after the call. Their response was as basically as follows,


The NO2 is made with high-grade heat resistant Nylon material which is not plastic in anyway which is why it is so strange to hear it has a plastic taste. That said, what I would suggest is to use either herbs (spearmint/peppermint) or an essential oil in the unit while it is heated up, this should eliminate any unusual flavors you may encounter.


So its not plastic afterall. I dont really see how using a spearmint/peppermint or an essential oil makes any difference other than to mask the smell but whatever. I'll let you know what I think when it gets here sometime tommorow. Anybody know anything about heating nylon to vape temps?

 

[Ash]

MZ stems are nylon so I'd say the material has a pretty good track record.

 

[Rudy Rudiger]

NO2 just got here.

Upon opening the box there was a plastic smell, like opening a fresh set of lego's on christmas morning. Without doing a burn in or really anything there is a plastic taste. I would compare the taste to sucking air through a plastic pen, as ridiculous as that sounds.

I know my credibility will come into question when it comes to taste. My go to vape is a Cali vape glass on glass hands free connection. Im not a fan of the whip style vapes in that its just too much of a hassle to take out, plug in, heat up, and then put away. A good friend has LB that we generally use when we're out. The problem with the LB is that the batteries dont work when cold, so its not something you can hit on the ski lift. Im hoping the NO2 doesnt have that problem. I also have an Illadelph coil condenser with glass wand. Thats my pride and joy, but again, its a pain to heat that up, get the coil out of the freezer etc. Im also very scared of breaking it, so it only comes out on special occasions.

Anyway, the NO2 is much smaller than I expected. I knew the dimensions but ya its pretty small. Its like half an inch taller than an average water bottle. I dont think there would be any problem hiding it in an average size cup, lets say a medium drink or slushie at the movies.

In conculsion, I agree with SM. Im going to try and do something about this plastic taste.

 

[lwien]

MZ stems are nylon so I'd say the material has a pretty good track record.

Yeah, but they don't have a plastic taste, eh?

 

[stonemonkey55]

Luciano, Rudy - I used both of your methods with no luck. The smell/taste has diminished a bit but I'm not sure if it's because it is getting masked by the vapor resin.

(I'm speaking as SM the consumer here, not SM the VapeXhale manufacturer)

I'm not trying to say that my opinion (or anyone else) should hold more weight than others, but if you notice the people that said they didn't have any issue with the taste of the Vapir either:

a - only have a few posts (astroturfing as one person suggested)
b - this is the only vaporizer they have owned

I am willing to believe someone when they say the plastic taste doesn't bother them, but I am not inclined to believe when they say they taste no plastic at all. As Rudy alluded to, when you open this thing up, it smells like a bunch of legos.

Masking the flavor with spearmint or some other herb doesn't take into consideration that the smell/taste is still there and just being masked.

Rudy, or anyone else that own one, can you do some more due diligence on the top of Nylon used? Iolite uses some really great plastics that are approved for vaporization temperatures, I'd like to get a little more info on what plastics are used in the NO2. I desperately would like the NO2 to usurp the Supreme as my go to, on the go vape but this plastic issue is something I am having trouble getting over.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

quick search: when i google "heat resistant nylon" the cooking utensils are rated up to 450F.

That's the temp where the Bud Toaster heater is normally running to provide 390F air to the bud.

 

[Rudy Rudiger]

I'm not trying to say that my opinion (or anyone else) should hold more weight than others, but if you notice the people that said they didn't have any issue with the taste of the Vapir either:

a - only have a few posts (astroturfing as one person suggested)
b - this is the only vaporizer they have owned

I am willing to believe someone when they say the plastic taste doesn't bother them, but I am not inclined to believe when they say they taste no plastic at all. As Rudy alluded to, when you open this thing up, it smells like a bunch of legos.

Masking the flavor with spearmint or some other herb doesn't take into consideration that the smell/taste is still there and just being masked.

Rudy, or anyone else that own one, can you do some more due diligence on the top of Nylon used? Iolite uses some really great plastics that are approved for vaporization temperatures, I'd like to get a little more info on what plastics are used in the NO2. I desperately would like the NO2 to usurp the Supreme as my go to, on the go vape but this plastic issue is something I am having trouble getting over.

Im on it man.

I think it reasonable to assume the nylon is probably ok, but my concern is the O-rings on the NO2. Im going to get some answers for both, no worries.

Ive been burning the unit at 400F to try to get rid of the plastic taste. The taste is much more prevelant when the unit is hot. The plastic taste really seems to linger in my mouth. Im taking a little break from the ganja to get some things done, so Ive been taking phantom hits out of the NO2. Probably kick back into action sometime next week and will report on taste again at that point. In regards to taste buds, I dont smoke cigs or anything, I do still combust from time to time so I'd say my taste buds are average.

 

[moon]

I'm lifelong smoker, I vape herbs and tobacco through homemade glass rig and candle for @ 10 years,

smoke bubble and most "cheap" glass units out there, I've vaped out of a volcano at parties.
The Vapir NO2 is my first machine, I needed a "portable" and clean way to vape on he road. I did a lot of

googling and by far this thread is the most usable info I've found so far.This would most likely be my one

and only to thread post in, I am not a trool or shill, this is just the first time I thought i could contribute.

Reading THIS thread was the final impetus to get me to ordering one.

I 'll give a "review" as to how I would reverse engineer this unit:
Top cap must be turned from stainless steel, there is no practical reason the mouthtip needs to be tilted, so the part can be spun off economically. The top part of the lower housing (part with the ventilating grille), likewise should be turned/stamped from stainless steel.
The base of the unit where battery is inserted needs to be beefed up with more nylon , thicker construction detail to add durability and some 'heft'/bottom weight. I would want to use some kind of foam cozy to protect the bottom for a little drop protection, especially for portable use.

The material/vape chamber could have been designed as a 'drop in basket', so you can have a fresh
load ready to go, and the heating sink doesn't get so dirty.

I use a food quality tubing from a dairy supplier/farm store as a whip. The vapir draws harder than my glass rig, once I got past the learning curve, (hard draws) I got efficient use of materials. As far as plastic, no problem taste for me, but I burn tobacco regularly my taste buds are fried.



moon_

 

[Rudy Rudiger]

The guy from Vapir is going to call me back, supposedly, since he couldnt answer my questions on the spot. We'll see what happens.

In regards to moon, making the no2 from stainless steel will most likely cause the cost to double. The increase in cost from developing the unit from stainless steel will no doubt put it in a different class of vapes, and I think its safe to say Vapir wont win that battle. The cost of your reverse engineering outweighs the benefits expected to be derived.

Also, metal is one of the best conducters of heat. When you make this device out of metal its probably going to weigh twice as much, cost twice as much, and get hot, very hot. It would be like carrying around a dumbell. The shiny metal would also attract alot of attention on the go.

I agree with a drop in basket. That would be convenient. Or even like a flat screen.

In addition to my prior review, I must add that the vapir hose and mouthpiece are garbage. For starters, its just a bad fit on the NO2 and the mouthpiece. Air leaks from both connections. The worst connection is the mouthpiece to hose connection. I could understand if the hose was from a third party, then it would be a bad fit. Both of these are manufactured by Vapir, you think it would be an air tight but its not.

 

[claypigeon]

The guy from Vapir is going to call me back, supposedly, since he couldnt answer my questions on the spot. We'll see what happens.
...
In addition to my prior review, I must add that the vapir hose and mouthpiece are garbage. For starters, its just a bad fit on the NO2 and the mouthpiece. Air leaks from both connections. The worst connection is the mouthpiece to hose connection. I could understand if the hose was from a third party, then it would be a bad fit. Both of these are manufactured by Vapir, you think it would be an air tight but its not.

Rudy, regarding the connection of the hose and the mouthpiece, your right and wrong about the fit. When I first set up my NO2 I thought I had the mouthpiece in the hose correctly but I discovered that it was leaking air, and I needed to really push the mouthpiece on tightly with a twisting push to get the seal between the tube and mouthpiece. I agree not the best design there, and it is not clear if you have a good seal or not. I found the best way to test the seal is to take the top off and cover the opening where it attaches to the heating unit with your hand and suck on the mouthpiece, if your getting air still you need to press the hose into the mouthpiece more to get the connection snug.

BTW are you still getting a plastic smell/taste or did it resolve?

 

[Rudy Rudiger]

Thats makes a lot of sense Clay. Im going to go try to fix that up. Thanks for the tip.

Ya the plastic taste is still present. Its not as bad as it initially was, atleast I dont think, but its still their. Keep in mind, I have not used any herbs in the NO2, just phantom hits. The more I mess with it the less I think it is a plastic taste. It almost reminds me of heating up a brand new oven. I dont really know how else to describe it, but I definetly taste something. Unfortunately, the taste can not be localized to any specific part of the unit, its on both parts but seems to be more centered around the heating unit.

As the unit is manufactured in China, I am very concerned with the brass bowl. Does China have any manufacturing requirements with lead in the brass? If so Im sure its nothing as strict as in North America. I really have no idea. This is what stumped the Vapir guy. Still waiting for that call...

I also wonder how well this bad boy is going to work in the cold weather. Thats one area where the MFLB shits the bed. Cold batteries just dont work. Im hoping to take the NO2 on some ski trips this season.

We shall see how it holds up.

 

[claypigeon]

... I mess with it the less I think it is a plastic taste. It almost reminds me of heating up a brand new oven. I dont really know how else to describe it, but I definetly taste something. Unfortunately, the taste can not be localized to any specific part of the unit, its on both parts but seems to be more centered around the heating unit.

As the unit is manufactured in China, I am very concerned with the brass bowl. Does China have any manufacturing requirements with lead in the brass? If so Im sure its nothing as strict as in North America. I really have no idea. This is what stumped the Vapir guy. Still waiting for that call...

I also wonder how well this bad boy is going to work in the cold weather. Thats one area where the MFLB shits the bed. Cold batteries just dont work. Im hoping to take the NO2 on some ski trips this season.

We shall see how it holds up.

Yes that is the best description of it, not really plastic but more like a brand new heating element in a oven or stove kind of smell. Maybe it just needs to cook off what ever it is, perhaps it is some kind of residual chemical used in the manufacture process of electric heating elements. I know my oven no longer has that smell and my no2 is free of the smell / taste too.

Keep us in the loop on what you hear back from Vapir, I would hope they are QCing their contractors to make sure there is no lead content, but it is clear that Chinese mfg companies are not too concerned about using lead based paints and other chemicals that should never be consumed. Regardless of where it is manufactured Vapir is US based it they are selling in the US so they have the onus to ensure it is safe. Hell, the only way any of us are going to know if there is lead in any product we use it have it tested yourself or trust the company your buying from.

If you want to get hardcore, when you talk to them again ask them if they have tested the NO2 to be compliant with CA Proposition 65 (formally titled "The Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986") http://www.oehha.ca.gov/prop65.html
chemical list
http://www.oehha.ca.gov/prop65/prop65_list/files/P65single061110.pdf
case law re brass and lead
http://ag.ca.gov/newsalerts/print_release.php?id=1077

 

[DeepFried]

I also wonder how well this bad boy is going to work in the cold weather. Thats one area where the MFLB shits the bed. Cold batteries just dont work. Im hoping to take the NO2 on some ski trips this season.

We shall see how it holds up.

Operating range for an Li battery is down to -40degF and shelf life is 10+ years. They're significantly better at low temperature; at -5degF their service life is only decreased by 20%.

 

[moon]

The guy from Vapir is going to call me back, supposedly, since he couldnt answer my questions on the spot. We'll see what happens.

In regards to moon, making the no2 from stainless steel will most likely cause the cost to double. The increase in cost from developing the unit from stainless steel will no doubt put it in a different class of vapes, and I think its safe to say Vapir wont win that battle. The cost of your reverse engineering outweighs the benefits expected to be derived.

Also, metal is one of the best conducters of heat. When you make this device out of metal its probably going to weigh twice as much, cost twice as much, and get hot, very hot. It would be like carrying around a dumbell. The shiny metal would also attract alot of attention on the go.

I agree with a drop in basket. That would be convenient. Or even like a flat screen.

In addition to my prior review, I must add that the vapir hose and mouthpiece are garbage. For starters, its just a bad fit on the NO2 and the mouthpiece. Air leaks from both connections. The worst connection is the mouthpiece to hose connection. I could understand if the hose was from a third party, then it would be a bad fit. Both of these are manufactured by Vapir, you think it would be an air tight but its not.

Thanks for the feedback, stainless doesn't have to be heavy, if you've ever handled a KleenKanteen stainless water bottle, that is the 'guage/weight' I am thinking of. A thin disc of steel can be stamped out, spun into shape, and final details stamped in. I think that would help cool things.
(Altho I think a steampunk vape would be cool, with "heavy" steel, piston air pumps, and cooling fins...)

Looking at it more, if the top cap made a nice seal to the heating chamber, making the upper part of the lower housing out of metal is moot.


As far as cost, the tooling would probably be cheaper than the cost of the mold for the nylon part, tho that is just speculation on my mind.

As far as lead? Would a home lead paint test kit give any indication of lead in brass. If you took a hemostat with a bit of emery cloth, took a rubbing and tested?
The lead content issue, relevant to the history of goods coming out of China lately, is a matter I think the manufacturer should address promptly.

moon_

 

[skystate]

Everything still working like a champ.

However, I am going to wade into this issue of what we are tasting that may be causing you alarm. I have put two and two together on this, and maybe come up with four.

The screen in the bowl of my unit has defined marks where the bowl is heating it to the point of darkening the screen. In other words the bowl is not heated uniformly (it seems) to have three or four hot point around the bowl, which show up as marks on the bowl screen. Sort of like three or four dots on the screen

I have my bowl screen pushed all the way down to the bottom.. however maybe that is not ideal. Maybe that by pushing it all the way down, the screen contacts the hottest part of the bowl and towards the end of the session, the screen is getting so hot that it is giving off a metalic (or plastic like) taste.

There have been several times I have had a hit towards the end of the session which I deduced had a taste with a slight metallic hint to it.

The more I have thought about it, the more I have started to think about raising up the screen to avoid it getting as hot as the bowl via direct contact. I think the thinness of those screens MIGHT be able to give off something when touching the hottest part of the bowl for a full session of 15-20min.

I Will go to the screen position which was video taped on youtube as an alternate screen position and see if I have a change in the metal taste near the end of the session.

BTW, Thanks to those of you getting the manufacturer to check on the lead question ~! Or for somehow checking on it independently.

 

[Rudy Rudiger]

Thanks deepfried, that takes away my worries of leaving it in the car as well.

Vapir finally got back to me via email. Here is what they had to say:

"The unit is comprised of materials that DO NOT off gas nor create any volatile organic compunds (VOC's). The materials implored for the NO2 (and all of our vaporizers) are designed to withstand and operate well within (and over) their operating temperatures. The brass heating chamber does not contain any aluminum and has virtually no lead content. According to independent lab studies, there is more lead in the air you breathe than can be found in the NO2, something that can't be said about other portable-butane powered vaporizers that we also had independently lab-tested.

As for durability, we had that in mind when creating both the 02 and the NO2. We expect the vaporizers to be used out on the golf course or on the slopes. There are no moving parts in the unit which also greatly lessen the probability of something going wrong. And if something were to go wrong, you are covered with a one-year warranty which you can always extend if need be.

Honestly, and I don't mean to come across as bias (even though I work for the company) the NO2 is the most delightful and easy vaporizer I've used. For what it's worth, I have a volcano and access to many other vaporizers and more times than not, I find myself using the no2. "


I didnt expect them to really say anything negative about the NO2, so take the above for what it is. The reply does provide some limited assurance that the materials are safe. Either way Vapir customer service comes through again. I guess the moral of the story is, make sure to register your warranty.

 

[Jikaboom123]

They gotta get some colors.

How long does the rechargeable battery take to charge? How long does it last?

 

[Rudy Rudiger]

They gotta get some colors.

How long does the rechargeable battery take to charge? How long does it last?

I kind of like the black. Its very easy to hide when not in use.

Its hard to gauge how long the battery last. There's a lot of variables that go into to this as well, temp, how long you vape in one session, bunch of small sessions or one big one, etc. Most of the battery is expensed when heating up the unit so less battery would be used when keeping it on. As easy as that sounds, the automatic shut off complicates things. I have no idea how this auto shut off works, I cant get it down. Has anybody figured it out?