Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread

[Pappy]

With prudence and patience I have refrained from hitting my Pax era and Hanu Stone since September 5. I suspect it is black market carts with funky juice containing salts and spice packaged as THC/CBD. But as stated in post #104...

-- No more until I know more!

And now this musical interlude.

 

[Tranquility]

https://babylonbee.com/news/man-sur...91_wL6RVMZKKDxqg9mRh5sbdFZEdhmLrSHjRIQm4NQ0gw

Man Sure Is Glad He Switched From E-Cigs To Regular, Healthier Cigarettes

GRASS VALLEY, CA—In response to a record of nearly 10 deaths that could possibly relate to the use of e-cigarettes and vaping, lawmakers in multiple states have begun introducing legislation to curb what has clearly become an epidemic.

“The only option here is to enact a new law restricting what people can do with their own bodies!” New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announced while signing off on a state-wide ban on flavored e-cigarettes. He then left to give a speech on the importance of protecting a woman’s right to tear her unborn child to pieces.

Meanwhile, the California state legislature nearly outlawed all forms of vaping after spinning their giant “Wheel of Banning” to determine which activity would be legally prohibited this week. However, they had to spin again after the wheel landed between “Vaping” and “Driving P.T. Cruisers.”

Nathan Quandt is a former e-cigarette user from Grass Valley, CA. Like many others, he recently made the transition to tobacco cigarettes after learning about the immediate dangers of vaping.

“Since tobacco products are all still legal, they must be a much safer alternative,” Quandt said while deeply inhaling some nourishing cigarette fumes. “Obviously, the government would only take action if this was a true crisis, and not because of some arbitrary reason like bandwagoning or virtue-signaling!”

“Thanks to my three daily packs of American Spirits, I was able to give up such a dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle very quickly and easily!”​

 

[grokit]

Along those lines...
https://www.greenstate.com/lifestyl...FnGYdXNQTvqxF2g3nYmBNdJ16qGDuKjr2aL0lMdsRkY28

I think that there could certainly be more than one issue at play in this current 'epidemic', as @Pappy mentioned above. Personally, I'm concerned that thc could be an issue. But I'm not stopping. Yet.

The reason for my concern is simply physical evidence. To explain this, I need to confess to not changing out the water in my dab rig very often. So a lot of plant resin/lipids usually build up in the waterpipe. It's very clean looking and light in color but when I change the water, this stuff is very sticky and persistent. Meaning it will stick to the sink, and even scouring powder has a hard time with it; I have to finish up with iso.

So I wonder what the long-term implications may be for a heavy thc vaper such as myself. I have had an upper chest congestion issue for years but no shortness of breath. I miss old-school cough syrup!

I know from personal research that smoking weed protects one from lung cancer, even if one is a chronic tobacco smoker. It makes me think that maybe Mr. Chong and Mr. Quandt may be on to something.

I did see a headline recently that mentioned somebody experimenting with an acid extraction of plant thc, without the lipoids. I'll try and find it as I wonder if this could possibly mean without the resins as well.

I'm not going to start combusting or anything. I wish edibles worked better for me. I may need to do a t-break to reset my tolerance though, then maybe try to micro-dose again. Not sure yet what to do.


(edited for better link)

 

[Pappy]

Along those lines...
https://www.tmz.com/2019/09/22/tommy-chong-vape-ban-smoke-weed/

I think that there could certainly be more than one issue at play in this current 'epidemic', as @Pappy mentioned above. Personally, I'm concerned that thc could be an issue. But I'm not stopping. Yet.

The reason for my concern is simply physical evidence. To explain this, I need to confess to not changing out the water in my dab rig very often. So a lot of plant resin/lipids usually build up in the waterpipe. It's very clean looking and light in color but when I change the water, this stuff is very sticky and persistent. Meaning it will stick to the sink, and even scouring powder has a hard time with it; I have to finish up with iso.

So I wonder what the long-term implications may be for a heavy thc vaper such as myself. I have had an upper chest congestion issue for years but no shortness of breath. I miss old-school cough syrup!

I know from personal research that smoking weed protects one from lung cancer, even if one is a chronic tobacco smoker. It makes me think that maybe Mr. Chong and Mr. Quandt may be on to something.

I did see a headline recently that mentioned somebody experimenting with an acid extraction of plant thc, without the lipoids. I'll try and find it as I wonder if this could possibly mean without the resins as well.

I'm not going to start combusting or anything. I wish edibles worked better for me. I may need to do a t-break to reset my tolerance though, then maybe try to micro-dose again. Not sure yet what to do.

Since my foray into glass collecting and brief brush with YouTube stardom (those were the days -- https://www.youtube.com/user/ClubMJW/videos ) I have primarily dry vaped flowers (w/ Solo 2). My lungs are in far better shape now, at 73, than in 2010 when I gave up smoking pot. IMO, vaping pot through a water filled bong became overkill. Bongs are better equipped for smoking weed than vaping it, IMO. I've smoked pot just about every day since I was 16 so I can vouch that marijuana is fairly benign. Luckily I quit cigarettes cold turkey in 1985. Doubt I'd still be here if I hadn't.

Seibo turned me on to Hanu Stone in June and I was duly impressed. Still, out of respect for my flower vaping tolerance, I restricted e-vaping to 4-10 hits a night before bedtime. I experienced no detrimental side effects e-vaping like this for 2 months using lab tested Hanu Stone and Pax Era pods. I stopped in early September out of an abundance of caution. Only got two lungs!

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

I can't wait to read the Onion's take on this epidemic.

 

[Tranquility]

I can't wait to read the Onion's take on this epidemic.

The Onion has been getting its sarcastic ass handed to it by the Babylon Bee lately. It's like they're not even trying.

https://www.theonion.com/pros-and-cons-of-e-cigarettes-1838700756

The deaths of several people caused by using black-market vaping products have revived debate over whether e-cigarettes are safe, or whether their drawbacks outweigh any potential benefits. The Onion breaks down the pros and cons of using e-cigarettes.

PRO
Cheaper alternative to traditional methods of looking cool.

Teaches teens valuable inhaling skills.

Exploding vape was the highlight of Samantha Vonn’s grad party.

Safer means of consuming tobacco than cutting it in lines and snorting it off mirror.

Making your own clouds means bringing a little piece of heaven everywhere you go.

CON
Could be gateway to smoking harder USB-powered devices.

May damage reputation of technology as something that only ever improves society for the better.

Oh fuck, was that weed?

Loose-cannon cops unable to burn suspects for information.

Rolling your own way more difficult.​

 

[CANtalk]

FWIW

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

The Onion has been getting its sarcastic ass handed to it by the Babylon Bee lately. It's like they're not even trying.

I've never heard of the babylon bee. Sheesh.

 

[hafalump]

Ah, it gets more interesting yet again https://news.google.com/articles/CA...2Nb3CjDivdcCMJ_5ngY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

 

[darbarikanada]

from the article: “It seems to be some kind of direct chemical injury, similar to what one might see with exposures to toxic chemical fumes, poisonous gases and toxic agents,” said Dr. Brandon Larsen, a surgical pathologist at Mayo Clinic Arizona and a lead author of the study. “Based on what we have seen in our study, we suspect that most cases involve chemical contaminants, toxic byproducts or other noxious agents within vape liquids.”

 

[nicknock]

we suspect that most cases involve chemical contaminants, toxic byproducts or other noxious agents within vape liquids.”

When reading this, does it still seem to point to "VAPE LIQUIDS"? or have I kind of read that wrong or maybe they really still have no idea by the looks and it's just stirred up a bunch of could be's.

I've had to sign up as I been refreshing this thread for weeks and forgot my old username/email address.

In Aus, to my knowledge it's not really a norm to get THC vape carts, I have been using Arizer vapes for literally 10 years now, from vape bags, to glass stems to bubbler bongs and back, all dried vapes, never smoked a cig ever or even had nicotine. I do admit I have a cough but also to add, I had a cough back in my teens before I did ANY drugs, parents used to think I was actually a smoker specificly when I am out of the shower as I would just cough. After reading all these articles I half thought "hmm yeah I have a chest pain right now" but this is anxiety of reading from the internet IMO.

What does concern me and even before all the recent events, I had always thought these vapes... the plastic, the metal, could it have a long term effect? in Aus (again) it's more common to find pot smokers using bongs that are actually plastic bottles with a bit of garden hose cut off and a aluminum cone piece / metal cone piece. Sure people have glass bongs, but I see more common people use what I would call rubbish TBH.

My very first Arizer Solo (original version model) - after probably 5 years use from it, it died, I decided I'd fix it and pulled it all apart only to find the internals below the heating element (which was a different material to what they use in the Solo models now) had MELTED(plastic), never could taste plastic or anything ever, but I found it quite strange. I currently have 2x Arizer Solo's and 1x Arizer Air (neither are the #2 to clarify) - I will pull this other Solo apart quite soon and check the internals under the heater and pray the same thing has not occurred as if it has I think I'm going to be quite thrown back.

I also think ALOT of people are very quick to jump on the anti-vape wagon as most people don't truely understand why we use them, the fact I didn't want tar in my lungs etc was one, but flavour, how clean it is, even the high is cleaner and stronger. Sorry for the long one but I do think theres more than 1 or 2 things going on here and it's all being applied to ALL vaping when in reality if it is true on some degrees, vaping isn't the only thing that could be bad for you yet everyone is stuck on pointing out how bad it is because they simple don't like it.

 

[darbarikanada]

theres more than 1 or 2 things going on here and it's all being applied to ALL vaping

I think it's a mix of well-intended people trying to figure out what's going on (medical professionals) and people who don't really know much if anything about vaping. the second group's hardly surprising; 'vaping' can mean very different things, from e-cigs to dry herb vaping to THC cartridges - what % of the population actually knows all this? also, some of the people with the disease (or poisoning or whatever it is) live in places where cannabis is illegal; they might be withholding info that could help. so you've got the slow-moving medical sleuthing and the 'we gotta do something now!' contingent (i.e. politicians). from everything I've read so far, the likeliest culprit is possibly contaminated oil (probably from China) that people are mixing with THC oil to make more $. maybe the suspect oil (vitamin E acetate) is bad in itself, and the fairly quick onset of the issue has to do with california recently starting to regulate cannabis (THC oil) better, putting economic pressure on the gray market cartridge producers, but whether it's the vitamin E acetate itself or contaminated batches of it, I'm pretty confident they'll figure it out - it'll just take some time. in the meantime, if I were a cannabis cartridge user, I'd be avoiding gray market products right now.

 

[Planck]

I think this may interest some

 

[ginolicious]

So if I get this video correctly they are saving it’s thc vapes that are causing the issues. Not nicotine ones??

So how does flower vapes come into play with this?

 

[invertedisdead]

What does concern me and even before all the recent events, I had always thought these vapes... the plastic, the metal, could it have a long term effect?

Absolutely.

And I do have combustion friends who feel their all glass bongs are potentially safer than most of these vaporizers.

I think you could count on one hand the vapes that appear truly "healthy."

 

[C No Ego]

When reading this, does it still seem to point to "VAPE LIQUIDS"? or have I kind of read that wrong or maybe they really still have no idea by the looks and it's just stirred up a bunch of could be's.

I've had to sign up as I been refreshing this thread for weeks and forgot my old username/email address.

In Aus, to my knowledge it's not really a norm to get THC vape carts, I have been using Arizer vapes for literally 10 years now, from vape bags, to glass stems to bubbler bongs and back, all dried vapes, never smoked a cig ever or even had nicotine. I do admit I have a cough but also to add, I had a cough back in my teens before I did ANY drugs, parents used to think I was actually a smoker specificly when I am out of the shower as I would just cough. After reading all these articles I half thought "hmm yeah I have a chest pain right now" but this is anxiety of reading from the internet IMO.

What does concern me and even before all the recent events, I had always thought these vapes... the plastic, the metal, could it have a long term effect? in Aus (again) it's more common to find pot smokers using bongs that are actually plastic bottles with a bit of garden hose cut off and a aluminum cone piece / metal cone piece. Sure people have glass bongs, but I see more common people use what I would call rubbish TBH.

My very first Arizer Solo (original version model) - after probably 5 years use from it, it died, I decided I'd fix it and pulled it all apart only to find the internals below the heating element (which was a different material to what they use in the Solo models now) had MELTED(plastic), never could taste plastic or anything ever, but I found it quite strange. I currently have 2x Arizer Solo's and 1x Arizer Air (neither are the #2 to clarify) - I will pull this other Solo apart quite soon and check the internals under the heater and pray the same thing has not occurred as if it has I think I'm going to be quite thrown back.

I also think ALOT of people are very quick to jump on the anti-vape wagon as most people don't truely understand why we use them, the fact I didn't want tar in my lungs etc was one, but flavour, how clean it is, even the high is cleaner and stronger. Sorry for the long one but I do think theres more than 1 or 2 things going on here and it's all being applied to ALL vaping when in reality if it is true on some degrees, vaping isn't the only thing that could be bad for you yet everyone is stuck on pointing out how bad it is because they simple don't like it.

yeah, you want a clean air path dry herb vape, isolated air path away from electronics ETC..... for example, Fury2 or the healthyrips line up of vapes with isolated stainless steel airpath

 

[invertedisdead]

yeah, you want a clean air path dry herb vape, isolated air path away from electronics ETC..... for example, Fury2 or the healthyrips line up of vapes with isolated stainless steel airpath

Isn't the heating element and wiring/insulation directly in the vapor path though? Tends to be a problem with portables, IMO why they are nearly all flawed.

I'm thinking more like the Flowerpot when I consider healthy vaporizers.

Zero electronics, plastics, solders, glues, silicone, teflon, etc in the air OR vapor path
Made right here domestically out of 100% USA Certified Grade 2 Titanium.

I would also consider the Vapcap in that short list since it lacks electronics and there's so many stems from wood to glass to metal.

 

[KeroZen]

Yeah some conduction vapes are properly isolated, but conduction taste is meh. Most convection portables have the heating element in the air path.

The only solution is to use halogen bulbs for the heater, but it adds a lot of lag and inefficiency, usually requiring a heat exchanger of some kind and then you're back having stainless steel in the air path, although only indirectly heated.

The Apollo portable is built like that, but it's very niche and communication with its maker is apparently problematic, as reported in the thread.

It should be possible to have only a glass cover and the bulb + socket exposed, but then breakage becomes a real concern, especially in a portable.

 

[stickstones]

Flower vapes don’t come into play. It’s thc products, not thc. Very easy for the media to manipulate our first impressions with similar terms. What concerns me, is this is not the first time I’ve heard things about dispensary products. If there is a problem with dispensary products, look for the system to point the finger at the black market, while quietly replacing the dispensary products in question. It’s been happening in Oregon, with very little reporting compared to the rest of the media frenzy.

 

[C No Ego]

Isn't the heating element and wiring/insulation directly in the vapor path though? Tends to be a problem with portables, IMO why they are nearly all flawed.

I'm thinking more like the Flowerpot when I consider healthy vaporizers.

Zero electronics, plastics, solders, glues, silicone, teflon, etc in the air OR vapor path
Made right here domestically out of 100% USA Certified Grade 2 Titanium.

I would also consider the Vapcap in that short list since it lacks electronics and there's so many stems from wood to glass to metal.

Fury2 has a Nichrome heating coil in the stainless air tube isolated from the heater... Edge has a stainless steel coil in the stainless airpath . so air over a coil that heats the air

 

[Pappy]

Vapes are getting conflated with pens, cannabis is getting conflated with THC, carts are getting conflated with concentrates, vaping is getting conflated with juicing, and CBD is getting conflated with the CDC.

 

[C No Ego]

Vapes are getting conflated with pens, cannabis is getting conflated with THC, carts are getting conflated with concentrates, vaping is getting conflated with juicing, and CBD is getting conflated with the CDC.

and CDC is hot on the trail of Marijuana !!! gotta chase those THC's

 

[Planck]

What concerns me, is this is not the first time I’ve heard things about dispensary products.

Indeed, but what concerns me is the more we learn about this the less it makes sense. Apparently all "liquid" vaping is implicated. THC, CBD and NIC legal and illicit. That is a user base of immense size. Millions of consumers and proportionally few cases.

Vitamin E acetate was looking promising but the biopsy results from the Mayo Lab show chemical burns not lipid pneumonia.

It appears now that there is a very aggressive agent in a vanishingly small number of vapable solutions covering a cross section of everything commonly vaped. Additionally this aggressive agent has not been isolated in chemical testing. I assume the CDC has access to the most sophisticated test equipment in existence. We understand chemistry well enough to even work backwards from decay products to potential sources but so far nothing looks interesting.

The Cannabis and NIC supply chains are pretty independant and both are implicated atm.
The consumer base for both is immense.
Very few people are affected but the ones who are are hit very hard.
It is not regional.
Only the USA is reporting multiple cases.

Curious indeed!

 

[grokit]

Fake weed/spice, vitamin e acetate, and hydrogen cyanide.

One is a toxic substance, one is a tainted additive, one is from faulty manufacturing(?).

It would seem that the latter two could be applicable to e-cigs,
while the former two are more thc/cbd-related, and mostly black market.

edit: propylene glycol is also to be avoided, worse for some than others.

There's definitely more than one issue here.

Is this a good summary?

 

[darbarikanada]

Is this a good summary?

still too early to really say, but I read an article yesterday that said the lung tissue of 7 (I think) cases looked like chemical burns you'd get from breathing fumes at a toxic fire. based on everything I've read, somebody introduced Chinese-made tainted vitamin E acetate oil, possibly in LA, where there's a huge grey market cartridge scene, and the chemical spread out geographically from there. maybe it'll turn out to be a one-time thing (bad batch). maybe greedy people will stop using vitamin E acetate to cut THC oil. you'd think that 1000 people getting poisoned might actually change people's behavior - consumers and producers.

or not.