Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread

[darbarikanada]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...5b708e-d98d-11e9-ac63-3016711543fe_story.html

maybe they're getting closer to figuring this out....

"Recreational marijuana use is legal and regulated in California. In recent months, tighter restrictions have made THC oil increasingly scarce on the black market, industry experts said. THC oil can cost between $5,000 and $7,000 per kilogram for a high-purity product, according to experts. It is thick, colorless and odorless.

To stretch that supply, a lot of producers are using thickeners in their mixtures because it creates the visual appeal of a very thick oil that looks like THC oil

One thickening agents is vitamin E oil, known as vitamin E acetate. It is also colorless and odorless, has similar viscosity to THC oil, and is much cheaper.

Little is known about the potential hazards of vitamin E acetate. But talks about potential animal testing have begun at the National Institutes of Health, public health experts said."

 

[stickstones]

P.S If anyone has ever saw a cartridge that doesnt have cotton around the ceramic let me know.
Will get in touch with Airistech to ask them if there is such thing on their Qcell cartridge.

I make my own disty, thank you. A company that manufactures the carrts in the US is what I was referring to. There is not one that I know of, all come from China. Not filling them or making disty, a monkey could do that.

I just got back from CHAMPS Orlando, and Stache Products (the Rio) had a little cart that he makes with ss mesh instead of cotton. The rest of the cart is mass produced, but he grabs 'em and tweaks 'em. I'm gonna give them a shot.

 

[DeeCee5]

And so it begins: Massachusetts to temporarily ban the sale of e-cigarettes and vaping products; https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/24/health/massachusetts-vaping-ban-bn/index.html

Massachusetts would be the first state to issue such a ban (4 months), which would last through January 25, 2020. It would apply to all vaping products and devices, including tobacco and marijuana, according to the governor's office.

Not sure whether this only extending to cartridges / batteries or *all* vaping devices (including dry vaping devices).

 

[walkma666]

And so it begins: Massachusetts to temporarily ban the sale of e-cigarettes and vaping products; https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/24/health/massachusetts-vaping-ban-bn/index.html

Massachusetts would be the first state to issue such a ban (4 months), which would last through January 25, 2020. It would apply to all vaping products and devices, including tobacco and marijuana, according to the governor's office.

Not sure whether this only extending to cartridges / batteries or *all* vaping devices (including dry vaping devices).

Hard to find many dispensaries that sell dry herb vaping devices. I have been to a dispensary in Massachusetts and they have Rempens and Apex batteries, and they sell carts. I guess that won't be available for a while cos I just went to the web-site and checked the menu, and all links to the "vaporizers" have a 404 error.

 

[howie105]

Teens have been admitted to hospitals with all kinds of respiratory distress. What are they doing wrong, and should we be concerned?

Depending on whose numbers you use there have been around seven to ten possibly vape related deaths over the last few months and in the neighborhood five hundred non fatal cases, again those cases are possibly related. Given the three hundred and twenty million population of the nation I have questions about the relevance of the number of possible cases.
On the other hand I can see the industry as a ripe tax target waiting to be plucked but to be fair that hasn't happened yet. I guess its another follow the money thing.

 

[Tranquility]

Let's get ready to RUMBL...er...litigate.

https://mjbizdaily.com/washington-s...rms-alleges-products-caused-his-lung-illness/

A Washington state man is suing six cannabis vape companies for allegedly causing his lung illness, reportedly the first suit of its kind in the state.

The suit filed by Herrmann Law Group on behalf of Charles Wilcoxen, a Puyallup Tribal Police officer, claims marijuana vape products caused him to come down with lipoid pneumonia, which put him in the hospital earlier this month.

The six companies named in the lawsuit are:

• Canna Brand Solutions (Everett)
• Conscious Cannabis (Spokane Valley)
• Rainbow’s Aloft (Colville)
• LeafWerx (Wenatchee)
• MFused (Spokane)
• Jane’s Garden (Lake Stevens)

In the complaint, Wilcoxen alleges the vaporizer he purchased and used was made by CCell, a Chinese corporation, and distributed by Canna Brand Solutions. ...
​

(I LOVE the first suit is from a cop, using cannabis.)

 

[DeeCee5]

As I don't vape liquid nicotine, and seldom liquid THC, I really don't have a dog in this fight.
However, my nephew worked in a local Vape Store and as of last night is now unemployed.

While I'm in favor of regulation (and even additional taxation) to help understand what chemicals go into these liquid cartridges and what could be the long term health effects, I'm against knee-jerk reactions.

I get the feeling that every commercial on tonight's local news is going to be from SokoloveLaw and Morgan and Morgan asking people to call their toll-free number and join a class action suit.

 

[Tranquility]

I get the feeling that every commercial on tonight's local news is going to be from SokoloveLaw and Morgan and Morgan asking people to call their toll-free number and join a class action suit.

We are a little way from there. Even if the pockets of the violators were deep enough, you'd still have the basic problem of causation. Why do some people have a problem and some people do not?

Until you answer that question, you don't really have a "class" with questions of law or facts common to the class.

 

[mitchgo61]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/25/tenth-patient-dies-from-vaping-related-illness.html

While the Georgia patient had a history of heavy e-cigarette use, doctors said the victim didn’t vape THC, the active ingredient in marijuana.

And the “THC is causing this and is bad for you” argument collapses. Again.

 

[nickdanger]

Interesting Leafly article about the fake carts and vaporizer additives. I suspected that a lot of the hardware and additives might have come from China. Apologies if it has already been posted.

https://www.leafly.com/news/politic...ain-investigation-leafly?cacheBuster=justOnce

 

[howie105]

One of the concerns I have is that regulations meant to address e-cigs will be applied to marijuana vapes as well without proper consideration of the differences in the user base, manufactures and how devices are marketed. For my part I an adult, I mostly buy from cotta

Interesting Leafly article about the fake carts and vaporizer additives. I suspected that a lot of the hardware and additives might have come from China. Apologies if it has already been posted.

https://www.leafly.com/news/politic...ain-investigation-leafly?cacheBuster=justOnce

Its part of the business model that the customer base supports, or maybe its just shoes for industry...

 

[Ramahs]

Folks, medical grade PG is only dangerous for those that are allergic to it. It's not too rare to be allergic but that's it. People have been vaping liquids with up to 70% PG for over a decade now without problems. Just get over it

Agreed. My advice would be for the assholes to go fuck themselves, rather than simply to get over it...but I'm sometimes a bit too honest. lol

 

[Stu]

Black-market marijuana vape cartridges have been found to contain hydrogen cyanide in laboratory testing commissioned by NBC News.

 

[CalyxSmokr]

Agreed. My advice would be for the assholes to go fuck themselves, rather than simply to get over it...but I'm sometimes a bit too honest. lol

who are you calling an asshole? just curious.

 

[mitchgo61]

Black-market marijuana vape cartridges have been found to contain hydrogen cyanide in laboratory testing commissioned by NBC News.

When this story first broke I said to my wife “this reminds me of the Tylenol cyanide sabotage of 1982”. Not because it would have anything to do with cyanide, or purposeful murder, but because it seemed like a rounding error of occurrences whereby the core product was safe but some small number of users were somehow poisoned.

Even a blind pig finds a truffle sometimes. (Nice to see no legit carts from medical providers were involved so far...maybe this’ll tamp down the hysteria. Maybe.)

 

[invertedisdead]

Black-market marijuana vape cartridges have been found to contain hydrogen cyanide in laboratory testing commissioned by NBC News.

That's from the pesticide myclobutanil, it converts into hydrogen cyanide when heated. very common on ultra cheap boof trim commonly turned into low grade distillate for black market cartridges.

 

[TommyDee]

@invertedisdead ...I'm impressed. How in the hell did you know that?

 

[mitchgo61]

That's from the pesticide myclobutanil, it converts into hydrogen cyanide when heated. very common on ultra cheap boof trim commonly turned into low grade distillate for black market cartridges.

Interesting. So the source could be a chemical resident on the (crappy) flower itself, and not a cart additive like vitamin E etc?

How would the “nicotine-cart-only” cases fit into this explanation? (Damn, it’s like this thread has become an episode of CSI....)

 

[TommyDee]

I can see the headlines now

"Vape Disease Solved by Members of Fuck Combustion Forum Users!"

 

[darbarikanada]

How would the “nicotine-cart-only” cases fit into this explanation?

my guess would be that this pesticide isn't the culprit for what's going on. if a pesticide that's been in use for a long time was the cause, the syndrome/disease would've shown up before. maybe it was going on but people didn't see the pattern - but I doubt it. I suspect NBC just happened upon an unrelated phenomenon.

 

[invertedisdead]

@invertedisdead ...I'm impressed. How in the hell did you know that?

Eagle 20 / myclobutanil was a big thing a year or two ago in CA before prop 64 mandated testing. People were getting sick off cartridges from dirty distillate (the pesticides are highly concentrated)

Probably still really common in black market grows.

How would the “nicotine-cart-only” cases fit into this explanation? (Damn, it’s like this thread has become an episode of CSI....)

Not sure, but I've heard of those botanical flavorings containing pesticides themselves.

 

[TommyDee]

Now I understand a few more things... Thank you @invertedisdead !
Oregon appears to have been testing for this pesticide for some time. Typically that means there are allowable levels. I think I'll stick to indoor grown for now.

160104 Douglas ODA Male complainant reported to ODA via a pesticide incident complaint form that his OMMP crop failed laboratory testing due to drift (myclobutanil) from his neighbor’s vineyard. ODA made a referral to PARC.

Sorry for the sideline - mods delete if inappropriate.

 

[grokit]

The shitshow continues...

"For the first time, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said it suspects vaping THC—a compound in marijuana—is tied to the hundreds of lung illnesses and at least 12 deaths that have been reported across the country."
https://time.com/5688229/cdc-thc-va...utm_campaign=time-health&utm_content=20190930

 

[invertedisdead]

The shitshow continues...

"For the first time, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said it suspects vaping THC—a compound in marijuana—is tied to the hundreds of lung illnesses and at least 12 deaths that have been reported across the country."
https://time.com/5688229/cdc-thc-va...utm_campaign=time-health&utm_content=20190930

Of course it's tied to it, people are buying the carts for the THC.

I'm definitely not surprised the CDC would scapegoat it. That makes perfect sense.

 

[mitchgo61]

The shitshow continues...

"For the first time, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said it suspects vaping THC—a compound in marijuana—is tied to the hundreds of lung illnesses and at least 12 deaths that have been reported across the country."
https://time.com/5688229/cdc-thc-va...utm_campaign=time-health&utm_content=20190930

Except they can’t quite explain the 1/4ish of cases where no THC was consumed. Good luck convincing the 50mm-plus Americans who use cannibis regularly that THC is causing imminent near-death. We’ve been stoners for decades. Are we dead? No? There’s your answer.

Plus eventually they’ll figure it out....vitamin e or cyanide or malice or whatever the fuck it is....and then they can walk back their little THC mini-hysteria.