Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread

[Hackerman]

I think that the Oregon death is different and may be unrelated to the cartridge. This was a 40 year old man who bought a cartridge that had been checked by a lab. And given that, unlike some states, there is too much cannabis in Oregon there's no reason for the dispensary to end up with something from an uninspected lab. I suspect that when they show all the info from the autopsy there will be something else in his system. Or he was already sick with something.

I don't think any state requires or does testing of the dilutants used in carts. Not saying you're not right about this case. Just that I don't think any state requires that kind of testing.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

So I’ll repeat.....what the fuck????

There could be more than one cause for the cases currently being grouped together. The symptoms could differ in relevant, but as yet unidentified, ways.

Maybe there's been some background level of similar presentations, but they were never attributed to vaping. Something new caused a noticeable spike on top of this background. Or, the spike is caused by more than one change that happened at about the same time, each of which produces similar symptoms.

Self-reporting could also be inaccurate. Some might forget or make mistakes. Others might mention only some of the devices they used, for one reason or another.

As public concern rises, some might seek treatment who otherwise wouldn't, amplifying both signal(s) and noise.

 

[little maggie]

I don't think any state requires or does testing of the dilutants used in carts. Not saying you're not right about this case. Just that I don't think any state requires that kind of testing.

I could be wrong but my understanding is that in Oregon all cannabis products that sell in a dispensary are tested except for flower

 

[TommyDee]

In Oregon we can have "unknown brand" as a grower for available flower but all flower is sampled through a lab.

 

[Hackerman]

Yeah, but tested for what?

 

[TommyDee]

Overview of Testing Requirements in Oregon
For All Medical Registrants and Retail Licensees

All marijuana items must be sampled according to ORELAP sampling protocols and tested according to OAR 333-007-0300 to 333-007-0500 and OAR 333-064-0100 to 333-064-0130.

The Oregon Health Authority (OHA) is responsible for Cannabis testing rules that apply to both the medical and retail market. Any marijuana or marijuana product intended to be sold at a dispensary or retail shop must have been sampled and tested according to the testing rules.

Any laboratory that tests marijuana items must be accredited by ORELAP and licensed by OLCC. Only accredited and licensed laboratories may sample and test marijuana items.

All marijuana items transferred or sold to a dispensary or retail shop must be accompanied by documentation of passing test results.

• Testing Requirements
• Failed Test Guidance
• Reanalysis and Retesting Guidance

Control Study Information.

If a processor or processing site does not have a certified control study it must have the cannabinoid concentrate, extract or product sampled in accordance with Exhibit B, Tables 5 and 6 (pdf) and the sample increments must be prepared and analyzed separately.

Laboratory Reporting Requirements.

TEST FAILED PRODUCT TYPE ACTION
Microbiological Usable marijuana
If the processing method can effectively sterilize the batch, it may either:

• Be used to make a concentrate or extract; OR
• The batch must be destroyed.*

If batch is made into a concentrate or extract, it must be tested for microbiological contaminants, solvents and pesticides.

Concentrate or extract

• Batch may be further processed.
• After further processing, batch must be retested for microbiological contaminants, solvents and pesticides.
• If batch fails retesting, the batch must be destroyed.*

All other products

• Must be destroyed.*

Solvent Extract

• Batch may be remediated.
• A remediated batch must be retested for pesticides, solvents and potency.
• A batch that fails solvent testing that is not remediated, or if remediated fails testing, must be destroyed.*

Water activity or moisture content Usable marijuana Batch may either:

• Be used to make a concentrate or extract; OR
• Undergo additional drying or curing and be resampled and retested.

Pesticides Usable marijuana

• Must be destroyed*; OR
• If only the analytes piperonyl butoxide or pyrethrins are found and the Oregon Department of Agriculture determines that the pesticide products used were listed on the Department’s Guide list for Pesticides and Cannabis and the product was applied in accordance with the label, the Authority or the Commission may permit the producer or grower to remediate the usable marijuana using procedures that would reduce the concentration of pesticides to less than the action level. A batch of usable marijuana that is permitted to be remediated must be re-sampled and re-tested for pesticides.**

Concentrate or extract

• If all useable marijuana used to make the concentrate or extract passed pesticide testing, a process lot of concentrates or extracts that is permitted to be remediated must be re-sampled and re-tested for pesticides.**

Potency All products

• Product may be repackaged to meet concentration levels outlined in rule. A repackaged item must be resampled and retested

*Notification of product destruction

• If a batch fails testing, it may not be destroyed without obtaining permission from the overseeing state agency.
• The OMMP may be contacted at: OMMP.labs@state.or.us.
  • A medical marijuana registrant that fails to comply with any of the testing rules will be subject to enforcements action which may include civil penalties or having their registration suspended or revoked.
• For more information regarding failed tests by an OLCC licensee contact OLCC at: marijuana@oregon.gov

**Remediation of marijuana items

After attempting remediation, the batch or process lot must be re-sampled and re-tested for pesticides. If the batch or process lot fails for pesticides again then it must be destroyed as ordered by OMMP or OLCC. Remediation of usable marijuana on failed pesticide tests is only available for batches that only failed for exceeding action levels on piperonyl butoxide or pyrethrins.

Notification of Reanalysis or Retesting of a Failed Sample Form (pdf). A copy of the reanalysis results must also be submitted to OMMP once received from the testing laboratory.

• If the reanalysis results in another fail, all associated batches must be held for destruction.
• If the reanalysis results in a pass, then another laboratory must resample and retest the item to determine if the product is a pass or a fail.

Retesting

The grower or processor must notify OMMP that they are pursuing a retest. The same Notification of Reanalysis or Retesting of a Failed Sample Form (pdf) may be used. A copy of the retesting results must also be submitted to OMMP once received from the testing laboratory.

• A fail on a retest means the item must be held for destruction.
• A pass on a retest means the item may be transferred.

If a batch fails testing, it may not be destroyed without first obtaining permission from OMMP.

The form and copy of the test results may be sent to: ommp.labs@state.or.us.

 

[invertedisdead]

they haven’t found (so far) any chemicals common to all tested carts, outside of the intended elements (THC and nicotine etc).

Because multiple additives being used all cause lipid pneumonia. They won't find something common to all of these carts outside of the outcome as they are all made differently at the producers discretion.

 

[mitchgo61]

Because multiple additives being used all cause lipid pneumonia. They won't find something common to all of these carts outside of the outcome as they are all made differently at the producers discretion.

Which would make sense if

A. all the afflictions have been ruled lipid pneumonia (they haven't)

and

B. this phenomenon started slowly over time....if all kinds of additives cause this problem, and these additives have been used by many manufacturers for months and years (carts have been around a decade now), you'd have seen these health issues ramp slowly over several years. Instead, all but one case have occurred since June, and the one outstanding case occurred in April.

Again, maybe they're wrong, but health officials seem convinced that this isn't a sudden revelation of a long-standing issue, but rather a sudden introduction of something that has caused this outbreak. (Like, say, a slew of tainted food on the market, or an e-coli contamination.) That's not the kind of thing that would happen suddenly if this were caused by a variety of substances used somewhat routinely over time by a variety of manufacturers.

Something new has been introduced into these products. It's not affecting the majority of carts, obviously. It seems counterintuitive that it's caused by six different things in use over time. It's more likely the testing has yet to uncover the thing that is common to all the carts causing the problem.

 

[Hackerman]

My best friend is in ICU at this moment from a bad cart. Seems a little more real when it hits this close to home. He usually bought his carts from the bartender at one of the local clubs. I started warning him about it when Extract Ninja first started posting at ICMag about True Terpene's Viscosity being mineral oil. Just this Wednesday at our gig, he was vaping his cart and laughing at me about my warnings. By Friday he was in ICU.

And, what Mitch said above is the consensus. This is something new. Not a buildup from something older.

 

[TommyDee]

Sorry to hear about your buddy @Hackerman That is way to close to home!

 

[Hackerman]

Thanks. Yeah, it all seems different now. And, as you all can imagine, I don't have many friends, LOL To see my best and basically only friend in ICU, it's almost like I can empathize with the people who have lost or nearly lost loved ones in this bull shit vape scandal. I can't imagine how people like the owner's of True Terpenes can sleep at night.

 

[mitchgo61]

Fingers crossed fingers for your friend, Hackerman. Very scary. Let’s hope this mess gets resolved quickly, whatever the hell is causing it.

 

[invertedisdead]

Mineral oil, whale oil, coconut oil, vitamin E oil, Chinese research chemicals, "Honey thickener" - none of these were being used in 2012 when I first started using prefilled oil pens. Heck even distillate wasn't around back then. So I would consider myself very up to date on this space.

Also knockoff Ccells have been known to leach lead (and you know the guys manipulating these oils aren't buying the good ones) so there are tons of points of complication. I definitely don't think there will be a single connecting factor, this is multitudes of bad shit going on simultaneously. Mineral oil, whale oil, vitamin E oil, and "honey thickener" being the most recent on the timeline.

 

[muunch]

Chinese research chemicals

I had messed around with massive bags of JWH-018 back in 2011. It was like $20 for a gram, and you could easily get baked for many moons off of that one gram, considering it's a full CB1/CB2 agonist - definitely a different feel from actual weed though.

Of course, I never messed with these random herbs in headshops that were sprayed indiscriminately with some mixture of RCs, instead favoring to try them on their own (with doses of my choosing) but cannabinoid receptor agonist RCs have been around for a while.

 

[invertedisdead]

I had messed around with massive bags of JWH-018 back in 2011. It was like $20 for a gram, and you could easily get baked for many moons off of that one gram, considering it's a full CB1/CB2 agonist - definitely a different feel from actual weed though.

Of course, I never messed with these random herbs in headshops that were sprayed indiscriminately with some mixture of RCs, instead favoring to try them on their own (with doses of my choosing) but cannabinoid receptor agonist RCs have been around for a while.

I'm talking more like liquid K2

 

[Kilo Crusher]

JWH018 is K2. I think Muunch is referring to the HORRIBLE K2 powder, which is pure hell. Never try this shit. I was stupid at around the same time. Took me 3 years of sobriety to only get SLIGHTLY high from top top shelf. Thought I'd never enjoy cannabis again, fortunately I was wrong. Anyway i have vaped k2 caveman style several years ago, the only reason I went to the ICU was to go to work. But other RCs from China cold be possible. There are a lot of cart manufacturers in China, a lot of them make all the knockoffs, so it might be hard to find a commonality. ROGE Chinaman randomly altering carts, who knows. My guess is, its he cart cutters. FUCKING IT UP FOR EVERYBODY, especially the unfriendly states. PROLONGING LAWS BEING PASSED..FUCKERS!!!!

 

[muunch]

JWH018 is K2

Yeah I was under the impression K2/"spice" blends were just random cannabinoid RCs. As far as I knew they were just mixing a bunch of these RCs, and spraying them on inert herbs, and then THAT was what was sold in headshops.

I had a source for the actual powder of the least shitty one (JWH-018), and messed around with it a bit over one summer. It was ok but no point really - actual weed is way better. And this was before I regularly vaped, or even knew what dabbing was!

I have no idea what the fuck these goons are cutting carts with, but I imagine getting these cannabinoid RCs is too much work/time.

 

[Ramahs]

It is unsettling that it is not just bootleg

What makes you think that some dispensaries don't sometimes sell bootleg products?

proponents may no longer be able to say no one has ever died from smoking cannabis

I don't think that anyone is talking about smoking anything here.

 

[Kilo Crusher]

I know they do first hand. Bet your ass, greed is KING ( to MOST ).
For example , reputable USA CBD WHOLESALERS. CBD distillate wholesales with COA.
5k to 7k for 1000g. CBD Isolate 4k to 5k WTF. China shitty RCs I follow some pritty technical forums, I'm 100% sure some dispensaries have Cut carts rather they know it or not.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

NYT primer with up-to-date, practical information.

... E-cigarettes have been around for years. Why is this happening now?

There are several theories. One is that some dangerous chemical or combination of chemicals has been introduced into the pipeline of vaping products. Public health officials believe that when people vape this noxious cocktail, it sets off a dangerous, even lethal, reaction inside the lungs. These officials have said repeatedly that they do not yet know which substance or device may be causing this reaction, and that is the subject of their urgent investigation.

A second theory is that this syndrome is not, in fact, entirely new and that some people had gotten sick previously, but that the condition had not been recognized and identified as being linked to vaping. As vaping has grown in popularity — both with nicotine and marijuana — more cases may be showing up.

For the time being, though, public health officials seem to believe that the first theory is more likely and they are hunting for a substance, substances or process that might explain the surge in illnesses.

And a potentially helpful fake cartridges subreddit.

 

[mitchgo61]

One thing that I think would be helpful to know, that I've yet to glean from all the articles I've read.....what is the time frame between folks ingesting suspected carts and the onset of symptoms?

Or to reframe it a more practical way....if you have carts you got from a licensed medical provider, that you've been using for weeks or months....are they safe? Or is there still some "incubation" period lasting weeks/months where symptoms could still surface?

Seems like important data, but I can't really figure it out from what I've read...maybe someone here is smarter than I....

 

[Hackerman]

One of the articles said 5 to 6 days of use and symptoms appear. But, there is so much speculation and misinformation floating around right now, it's hard to say anything is solid.

 

[walkma666]

One thing that I think would be helpful to know, that I've yet to glean from all the articles I've read.....what is the time frame between folks ingesting suspected carts and the onset of symptoms?

Or to reframe it a more practical way....if you have carts you got from a licensed medical provider, that you've been using for weeks or months....are they safe? Or is there still some "incubation" period lasting weeks/months where symptoms could still surface?

Seems like important data, but I can't really figure it out from what I've read...maybe someone here is smarter than I....

Agree. I have carts that I have been using for five months, not heavy, yet regular, and while I have stopped them for two weeks now, I am also wondering if they are safe. For now, I am on a mortarium until there is further news. Risk-reward scenario does not add up. Walking around NYC over the weekend, I still saw a couple of folks hitting pens that were defo carts. So, different levels of risk tolerance and/or awareness of current events.

 

[mitchgo61]

Agree. I have carts that I have been using for five months, not heavy, yet regular, and while I have stopped them for two weeks now, I am also wondering if they are safe. For now, I am on a mortarium until there is further news. Risk-reward scenario does not add up. Walking around NYC over the weekend, I still saw a couple of folks hitting pens that were defo carts. So, different levels of risk tolerance and/or awareness of current events.

The carts in our house are ones we’ve been using for months. They came from a licensed medical caregiver here in Maine. They are branded from Growing Balance, a local company. The CEO was recently on a caregiver panel and his bio reads thusly:

Patrick decided to found Growing Balance Extracts in 2018. Growing Balance Extracts is an in house vertically integrated ethanol based extraction company. At Growing Balance Extracts, Patrick has performed and managed hemp and cannabis extractions, developed proprietary standard operating procedures, subzero winterization, customized cannabis filtration and isolation, rotary evaporation, short path molecular distillation of cannabis and hemp, steam distillation of cannabis terpenes, scaled production of full spectrum cannabis extracts, along with production and manufacturing of cannabis oil vaporizer cartridges.

This would seem about as safe a combo as you could expect from carts....ones that have been used with no ill effects from a vertically integrated local process run by a prominent local cannibis entrepreneur.

But....as we’ve been saying....who fucking knows?

As for general cart activity....if estimates are correct that there are 15 million vape users in the US, I’m guessing you’ll see folks vaping plenty of carts despite this scare. (Scary it is, but right now the affected number of users is a rounding error....still fucking scary though....)

 

[C No Ego]

we used to be concerned about some butane in the product and people stopped BHO when that was not really an issue.... dying is an issue and its not BHO by product for sure