bosox1362
Well-Known Member
I'll try to keep this brief, as I should really (really) be studying... My initial impression is that this thing ROCKS! It exceeded all my expectations. In terms of ease of use, vapor quality, and vapor quantity, I don't see how it could be beat. Besides the 35 minute warm up the UD doesn't have a single flaw. All of the screens were positioned very well, and the herb is coming out perfectly chocolate brown every time. I don't think I'll ever use my MFLB again, which requires so much more technique. it is such a relief to be able to relax and not worry about combustion!
I tried basically every set up last night, and here are some of my thoughts:
1) Silicon Tube - Very thick compared to the stem I'm used to on the launch box. I ordered 2 of these thinking they'd be durable and easy to clean. They do have a slight smell, which will probably go away with use. Although, they may not see much action because...
2) Glass Stem - Definitely my favorite option! The taste is so much better out of the glass than it is out of the silicon for some reason. There is even more texture to the vapor. Unfortunately I only ordered 1, so I'll have to get more. The glass stem also seems ideal for taking little puffs because you can tell exactly how much you're getting.
3) GOnG - I have a Helix Pipe w/ Bubbler attachment. This thing is simply unbelievable. To say it is smooth would be a massive understatement. Personally, I don't like taking huge rips (except for at night sometimes). I also have a larger bong that I can try it out with. I'll probably save these set ups for special occasions because at some point it almost becomes too much!
I'll try to upload some pictures and videos soon. I've been telling all my friends about this little guy so they should be putting in a couple more orders. I was especially impressed with all of the extras that Dave includes... Tons of screens, pokers, containers, and bags! I also got the aromatherapy dish which I am excited to use once i get some oils. The best inclusion was the little cork stopper... Seriously genius! I'll have to order some more of these too.
Thanks again Dave! You have a fantastic product which certainly lives up to the hype. Hopefully with some of this new legalization you'll be able to make yourself some money!
EDIT: I'll be putting in an another order for some oils, corks, and one of those XL glass stems... any comparison pics or advice on the difference between XL and XL2?
I tried basically every set up last night, and here are some of my thoughts:
1) Silicon Tube - Very thick compared to the stem I'm used to on the launch box. I ordered 2 of these thinking they'd be durable and easy to clean. They do have a slight smell, which will probably go away with use. Although, they may not see much action because...
2) Glass Stem - Definitely my favorite option! The taste is so much better out of the glass than it is out of the silicon for some reason. There is even more texture to the vapor. Unfortunately I only ordered 1, so I'll have to get more. The glass stem also seems ideal for taking little puffs because you can tell exactly how much you're getting.
3) GOnG - I have a Helix Pipe w/ Bubbler attachment. This thing is simply unbelievable. To say it is smooth would be a massive understatement. Personally, I don't like taking huge rips (except for at night sometimes). I also have a larger bong that I can try it out with. I'll probably save these set ups for special occasions because at some point it almost becomes too much!
I'll try to upload some pictures and videos soon. I've been telling all my friends about this little guy so they should be putting in a couple more orders. I was especially impressed with all of the extras that Dave includes... Tons of screens, pokers, containers, and bags! I also got the aromatherapy dish which I am excited to use once i get some oils. The best inclusion was the little cork stopper... Seriously genius! I'll have to order some more of these too.
Thanks again Dave! You have a fantastic product which certainly lives up to the hype. Hopefully with some of this new legalization you'll be able to make yourself some money!
EDIT: I'll be putting in an another order for some oils, corks, and one of those XL glass stems... any comparison pics or advice on the difference between XL and XL2?
HighlyEducatedScholar
Student of Vapor
holy crap, that thing is BADASS. and what a steal for a variable PSU! if mine wasn't working so flawlessly already, i'd buy this one in a heartbeat. its so small too, such a perfect PSU for log vapes.
Dave you should definitely look into providing these through your website. i think they'd be a great addition.
edit: great to see you're loving your UD bosox. I know what you mean about the studying too, my UD came in last year right about mid-terms time and it was though not to use it while i was suppose to be studying
can't wait to see those vids and pictures though. i request a video of the UD going through your Helix bubb! it must look sick seeing the vapor swirl around in there.
OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
I totally agree with you HES. Time will have to tell how durable they are of course, but I'm already sorry I only ordered one.
I think I'm gonna order a blue one too
I think I'm gonna order a blue one too
Hmmm good question, how to decide which UD is best for any given person. Typically a standard Log sized Dog will be more durable and last longer, and will also run a bit cooler though still hotter than the PD you are used to. These higher temps can translate to a reduced lifespan but if you were to run it at PD temps then I think the UD would live just as long if not longer because of it's more robust design. Not having it on 24/7 will also increase it's effective lifespan (not total hours run, but lifetime). All the Dogs now use the 3/8" core and I don't know if Ed's stems (or the old PD stems) will fit inside the center tube.. I've seen some that do and some that don't. Our stems all use a piece of silicone to make a seal with the core by slipping over the outside of the center tube, kind of opposite of the PD method. Poplar (Rainbow or not) and Ash pieces should last a similar amount of time, Ash is much harder though and will probably run a tad cooler (though hotter to the touch).
@ bosox - glad to see you enjoying the Dog man.. ;-) As far as the XL vs XL2.. ah the XL is big and the XL2 is stupid-big? Seriously I usually tell people the XL2 is like a huge blunt with a similar application. Though I've heard some people like to load it up and be able to puff on it throughout the day.
@ HES - I'll look at those power supplies.. realistically speaking it can be tough to stock anything in any quantities but I'll certainly take a look and consider it. Does anyone have a link to the ones they bought? Can you message/email said link please. Thanks!
Got some appointments to take care of this morning then plowing through some emails, then finishing some repairs, then doing final assembly on 30 or so Pups and putting them into testing.
HighlyEducatedScholar
Student of Vapor
email sent.
holy crap, that thing is BADASS. and what a steal for a variable PSU! if mine wasn't working so flawlessly already, i'd buy this one in a heartbeat. its so small too, such a perfect PSU for log vapes.
Dave you should definitely look into providing these through your website. i think they'd be a great addition.
edit: great to see you're loving your UD bosox. I know what you mean about the studying too, my UD came in last year right about mid-terms time and it was though not to use it while i was suppose to be studying
hazy brought it to my attention as well - I ordered yesterday off ebay. But its coming from China, lets hope it makes it here before the next election.
HighlyEducatedScholar
Student of Vapor
hazy brought it to my attention as well - I ordered yesterday off ebay. But its coming from China, lets hope it makes it here before the next election.
nice man. please let us know what you think of it after you get it, hopefully sooner than later
i'm very curious on how well this thing performs.
PDwasmy1st
Well-Known Member
@ Underdog , thank you , so how would i run it at the same temperature as my pd? is that possible? do you mean it depends on the wood etc , is the voltage the same 12v?
So ash is much harder than poplar, is there any harder than ash ?, if so can you name the harder 1's you currently have in stock or about to make.
So it would be less effort extracting the vapor with a hotter running log? , though im still inclined to want a cooler running one because ive become hooked on my pd and the rate it extracts , but i have not decided yet.
So ash is much harder than poplar, is there any harder than ash ?, if so can you name the harder 1's you currently have in stock or about to make.
So it would be less effort extracting the vapor with a hotter running log? , though im still inclined to want a cooler running one because ive become hooked on my pd and the rate it extracts , but i have not decided yet.
Rick
Zapman
When I went through the VV Power supply thing, I tried three different small ones like the one above. They looked cool and were really small. None of them worked for very long or at all. I think there is a baseline price for a good PS and it is $30 at least. Also the weight and size relate to the quality. Could be these are different. It will be interesting to see how they last powering a log vape 24/7.
PDwasmy1st
Well-Known Member
Hi Rick, id love to get my hands on a Rockzap! (i have read your problems atm) 
I suppose noone else sells them?
I suppose noone else sells them?
HoneyAir
Well-Known Member
How easy is it to replace the resistor in the UD if it fails?
With my PD I had to crack the glue seal around the circumference of the wooden plug in the bottom which wasn't very easy at all and kind of marred the PD because of how I had to hack at it to finally free it.
With my PD I had to crack the glue seal around the circumference of the wooden plug in the bottom which wasn't very easy at all and kind of marred the PD because of how I had to hack at it to finally free it.
A variable power supply would be the best way of running a Dog at a lower voltage and is really a pretty worthwhile investment for only $30-$40 for a decent one. Alternatively you could use an LED dimmer ($10+) with the stock UD power supply to lower the temp for sessions though it seems like it's hard to find a decent quality one and it seems like they burn out (the LED dimmer) if left 'on' too long (from what other Dogs report lately). Lastly you could always buy a separate power supply for lower voltages, say like a 12 or 12.5v regulated power supply from Jameco for probably $10-$15. As far as harder woods, yes there are many harder woods than Ash but it's not practical to try and fine-tune the temp a Dog might run at based on wood density to that level of accuracy if that's what you're thinking, if that's your goal then see the above about power supply options. In regard to extracting vapor to me I think a hotter running vape makes it 'easier' to extract more. It's really hard for me to make direct comparisons from UD to PDs as they (in my mind) apples and oranges, the UD isn't based on the PD so it's a totally different performance curve and usage experience. Maybe some of the other people here in the thread who own both and have used both could chime in with some more useful and less biased info?
@ Rick - I agree completely with your assessment of the power supplies, my experience has been very similar.. that being said I did just order one of those baby-VVPS units to test out, will see how it goes when it arrives, if it arrives lol.
@ HoneyAir - The UD isn't user serviceable and is put together much differently than the PD so replacing the resistor is a fairly straightforward task for me here in a well stocked shop but not so much so for a home user. Doing this on the UD is also what I consider a 'destructive disassemble' in that it typically requires the actually drilling out of a good chunk of wood, the wiring and power plug are almost always damaged/destroyed during this process as well and are typically replaced along with the resistor. Also for what it's worth the resistor typically isn't the point of failure on an UD, 90% of the time a failure is in the power plug as they don't always handle the UD heat well. This is more of a concern in the smaller pieces like Twigs or when pieces are run over-voltage as well.
Ok, moving on.. just finished up a custom piece (hope the potential owner likes it!) in the shop today, the piece that I showed the rough form a couple days back with the jack'o'lantern face on it. I've changed the shape a bit but left the face, sanded and finished the piece. I've been calling it the Halloweenie. Picture below (Chilean Laurel Burl):
Also I paid a visit to a cool guy here locally who happens to be one of the only arborists licensed to do work with our city (which is a city full of beautiful hardwood trees). As many of you know I'm a sucker when it comes to wood, in that I can rarely pass any up.. it all seems to want to come home with me. Well today I might have went a little overboard and I might have blown the budget for the month. You guys will have to help me out and buy some more Dogs or it's nothing but ramen around here for a while lol. Also I'm running out of places to store this stuff. Also, I'm running out of time to saw, re-saw and organize wood. Maybe I should get an intern.. now I've got a few THOUSAND pounds of wood to deal with. Again. ;-)
Black Walnut, Sycamore, Black Oak, Chinese Pistache, Persimmon, Almond, Olive, English Walnut (and more I'm sure). The Underdog guarding the stash as usual.
Time for lunch!
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MotoPsycho
Well-Known Member
that halloweenie looks georgous. The other one is beautiful as well. This new wood is getting me excited. Can't wait to see what the future dogs look like.
. Can't wait to see what the future dogs look like.
GOATPUSSY
Active Member
Just wanted to Thank Dave for my new everyday vape. I call her Sandy, and she is beautiful!If you are in the market for a log vape.... Underdog is incredible!
She's a beautiful girl! Congrats... I'm sure you'll love her.
Appropriately named too... You betcha' she'll knock you on your ass like a hurricane!
Skuma
Well-Known Member
Sandy is very pretty nice pick VapeVoice.
That's a big bunch of wood Dave I'm curious to see the dogs that will come out of that.
On another subject....
My UD just cleared customs! It should be here very soon, I'm very excited.
I was wondering, can you put kief in the UD? How long does it take to heat up?
I'm preparing for when it gets here.
nice pick VapeVoice.That's a big bunch of wood Dave I'm curious to see the dogs that will come out of that.
On another subject....
My UD just cleared customs! It should be here very soon, I'm very excited.
I was wondering, can you put kief in the UD? How long does it take to heat up?
I'm preparing for when it gets here.
OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
I usually top a bowl off with kief, but my bowls sit in my waterpipe and don't usually get inverted, which makes 'm a bit more spill-prove.
I like how Haloweenie turned out btw, looks so different now the wood is finished. The UD looks kinda pissed to me in that photo though, I assume he wasn't allowed to wee on those trees?
I like how Haloweenie turned out btw, looks so different now the wood is finished. The UD looks kinda pissed to me in that photo though, I assume he wasn't allowed to wee on those trees?
PDwasmy1st
Well-Known Member
Ok thanks Underdog , so i think ash is best for me, does any wood get charred eventually or has this issue that has affected the pd not a problem for the dogs? and ive read its glued together in pieces , does the glue get affected in anyway? and does it get inhaled in anyway , thank you.
Be great if you could get a dog to last as long as a real life dog
.
Be great if you could get a dog to last as long as a real life dog
.
@ VapeVoice - nice looking Ash Pup you've got there dude, happy you've given it a nice home.
@ OTA - yeah the UD was less than happy in that picture, I think he was upset that I stuck him up there on top of that wood pile when he really wanted to go inside and take a nap by the fire lol.
@ PDwasmy1st - Ash is nice, it's definitely one of my favorite woods in the lower priced category. I also have some nice Walnut that only runs $10-$20 if you like darker woods. On the charring subject I would say that eventually all will probably char but not nearly as rapidly and not to the levels of the PD I would think. This will also be dependent on how hot you run the Dog and the total accumulated hours of use, but really, the reality is that we have a 400° piece of metal, lightly insulated, then stuck in the middle of a block of wood so yeah the wood its going to be affected over time.
As far as glue, yeah some of the Ash ones are glue ups (also some of the fancy multi-wood ones obviously) but the glue is stable at the temps the wooden body reaches and don't typically degrade or any any problems. There are also adhesives used in a couple other (non-air path) parts of the vape during assembly but they are also used within spec and don't lead to problems. Regardless we have sealed the core so that the air path is not exposed to those substances or to any potential charring so most people are comfortable with their Pups and their use.
Re: a long(er) lasting Dog. I have been working on a prototype for longer lasting Dog which would also be more user serviceable but we're probably still a ways off from initial release so that's probably not helpful to you just yet.. but maybe one day it will be.
@ OTA - yeah the UD was less than happy in that picture, I think he was upset that I stuck him up there on top of that wood pile when he really wanted to go inside and take a nap by the fire lol.
@ PDwasmy1st - Ash is nice, it's definitely one of my favorite woods in the lower priced category. I also have some nice Walnut that only runs $10-$20 if you like darker woods. On the charring subject I would say that eventually all will probably char but not nearly as rapidly and not to the levels of the PD I would think. This will also be dependent on how hot you run the Dog and the total accumulated hours of use, but really, the reality is that we have a 400° piece of metal, lightly insulated, then stuck in the middle of a block of wood so yeah the wood its going to be affected over time.
As far as glue, yeah some of the Ash ones are glue ups (also some of the fancy multi-wood ones obviously) but the glue is stable at the temps the wooden body reaches and don't typically degrade or any any problems. There are also adhesives used in a couple other (non-air path) parts of the vape during assembly but they are also used within spec and don't lead to problems. Regardless we have sealed the core so that the air path is not exposed to those substances or to any potential charring so most people are comfortable with their Pups and their use.
Re: a long(er) lasting Dog. I have been working on a prototype for longer lasting Dog which would also be more user serviceable but we're probably still a ways off from initial release so that's probably not helpful to you just yet.. but maybe one day it will be.
PDwasmy1st
Well-Known Member
Thank you Underdog , so the PD was'nt/is'nt sealed or sealed enough to prevent it travelling through the airpath? (the burnt wood) am i to understand.
Also the worry is herbs that have fallen into the chamber & end up black combusted herbs getting in airpath, so needs to be shaken into hand each time before use maybe? this is the case for the pd anyway , does the underdog have a mesh area to prevent this? i suppose it can't be prevented completly , but can if u remember to shake into hand , and the unit can take this action (would have thought so) it can be eradicated.
i have a walnut PD and walnut stems from ed's , so yes for $15 more maybe have that, does it run as cool as ash? in other words is it a hardwood?
Also the worry is herbs that have fallen into the chamber & end up black combusted herbs getting in airpath, so needs to be shaken into hand each time before use maybe? this is the case for the pd anyway , does the underdog have a mesh area to prevent this? i suppose it can't be prevented completly , but can if u remember to shake into hand , and the unit can take this action (would have thought so) it can be eradicated.
i have a walnut PD and walnut stems from ed's , so yes for $15 more maybe have that, does it run as cool as ash? in other words is it a hardwood?
Correct, the PD core is not sealed, the entire bottom is open to the wooden chamber. The design also results in faster and more severe charring because of the significant direct contact of the metal sides of the core-sleeve to the wood. As you noted there is also no center tube screen to help keep debris out.
The UD only makes metal/wood contact in a couple locations and this reduces the rate at which the wood will char and deteriorate. The core is also wrapped in a ceramic cloth insulation to help reduce further the woods exposure to the heat. This doesn't prevent charring but does help to slow it down considerably, especially when considering how much hotter the UD runs compared to a classic PD. There is also a screen in the center tube so debris is much less likely to fall from the stems into the core. If any falls onto the screen it's a quick and simple matter to just tip it upside down and blow it off.
Walnut is an interesting wood and can range in density from fairly lightweight to quite dense and heavy (ie, hard) and I have both. The denser walnut is similar in hardness to Ash. Both make a good vape. The more dense stock tends to run a bit cooler in the core and a bit warmer on the outside to the touch. The less dense is the opposite effect. Either way we're talking small differences here, variations in your local power grid will have more of an affect on temp than the wood (in this instance).
Also, for what it's worth going back to the subject of glued pieces. Not all Ash pieces are glue-ups, only some, others are from solid slabs.. it just depends on the individual piece. Typically the glued-up Ash pieces are the most inexpensive pieces but there are exceptions to that for very pretty pieces of wood. The Walnut is all from solid slabs that I resaw to size here in the shop for best quality. At this point probably 90%+ of our pieces are non glue-ups.
The UD only makes metal/wood contact in a couple locations and this reduces the rate at which the wood will char and deteriorate. The core is also wrapped in a ceramic cloth insulation to help reduce further the woods exposure to the heat. This doesn't prevent charring but does help to slow it down considerably, especially when considering how much hotter the UD runs compared to a classic PD. There is also a screen in the center tube so debris is much less likely to fall from the stems into the core. If any falls onto the screen it's a quick and simple matter to just tip it upside down and blow it off.
Walnut is an interesting wood and can range in density from fairly lightweight to quite dense and heavy (ie, hard) and I have both. The denser walnut is similar in hardness to Ash. Both make a good vape. The more dense stock tends to run a bit cooler in the core and a bit warmer on the outside to the touch. The less dense is the opposite effect. Either way we're talking small differences here, variations in your local power grid will have more of an affect on temp than the wood (in this instance).
Also, for what it's worth going back to the subject of glued pieces. Not all Ash pieces are glue-ups, only some, others are from solid slabs.. it just depends on the individual piece. Typically the glued-up Ash pieces are the most inexpensive pieces but there are exceptions to that for very pretty pieces of wood. The Walnut is all from solid slabs that I resaw to size here in the shop for best quality. At this point probably 90%+ of our pieces are non glue-ups.
that herb guy
Well-Known Member
So my underdog has arrived safe and sound. Great job packaging Dave, I can tell it got a few good tosses around the post office during the shipping process (stuff that looks like it was packed in the muslin bag loose in box, etc) but everything came in pristine shape. The dog is beautiful.
I'd take a picture now, but I'm updating from the office, and the available cameras are shit tier. I'll edit some in when I get home tonight.
2 days ordered from CA to 'murica's wang. I know you're not involved with shipping other than dropping it off, but wow!
Going to give it a couple of days to get to know the vap and will be back with updates =].
Rainbow poplar dog, by the way if anyone was curious.
I'd take a picture now, but I'm updating from the office, and the available cameras are shit tier. I'll edit some in when I get home tonight.
2 days ordered from CA to 'murica's wang. I know you're not involved with shipping other than dropping it off, but wow!
Going to give it a couple of days to get to know the vap and will be back with updates =].
Rainbow poplar dog, by the way if anyone was curious.