Underdog Log Vapes

[mvapes]

i have a twig, which i am pretty sure dave says doesnt contain the GG. it producs large clouds of vapor, it is durable, its small and portable and it tastes great

GG?

 

[jackmormon]

Thanks for the link OTH. I don't know if my lack of manual dexterity would be a good for doing that

Wow - I am thinking of getting into the log vape arena - I like what I read until recently looking through this thread. Can I get some positive light on the UD - I hear that the flavor a log vape offers is fantastic. Personally, from what I read about temperature doesn't bother me. Just looking for some opinions.

When deciding to purchase a vape I read other people's opinions. When I decide whether or not I like a vape my experience and preferences take precedence. With that said, I purchased my first UD about 6 months ago and love it so much I purchased a second one a couple of weeks ago. I have found that a VVPS is really necessary for me. Flavor is subjective, but with a VVPS you can get the lower temp high flavor rips easily. If you want to milk out a bong, you can up the voltage and do that also, although higher temp is not as flavorful. What I like about the UD is how consistently easy it is to use. No muss, no fuss, minimal parts to clean. The stems and screens are basically disposable in the sense that anyone can make their own.

I am fairly sensitive and will not use a Solo due to headaches. I have never experienced any negative effects from using a UD. My first UD did have a slight smell from the finish that went away after being on for about 24 hours. This is just my experience, everyone has different needs and preferences. I have also never had any problems with my UD but I am really impressed with what I have read about how Dave takes care of his customers. I am confident that if I did have an issue it would be taken care of.

So my experience with UDs is overwhelmingly positive and my opinion is that they are a top notch vape. (Not that it matters, but I own about 20 others. The only ones I use are the UD, HI, CRZ, occasionally the VXC Cloud, and a Lotus for the rare times I need a portable.)

 

[djonkoman]

I'll stay a quiet observer in the materials-thread, I can only offer an opinion, no new information, and we already have plenty of opinions.
I started vaping becase of high and taste, so the healthaspects are less my focus, to me this whole thing isn't such a big deal since it's only about a tiny hole/gap between the resistor and glass bead. and my experience so far is a vape that gives a good high and a clean taste.

on another note, the plugs I ordered have not arrived yet, so my new vvps is still standing there tempting me, not being able to use it just for that one tiny plug... should be here soon(tomorrow hopefully, or else I have to wait till monday...) tough, it's shipped from the UK and it's the 4th day since postage now, all things I ordered from the UK so far arrived within 4 days.

 

[mvapes]

Thanks for the link OTH. I don't know if my lack of manual dexterity would be a good for doing that



When deciding to purchase a vape I read other people's opinions. When I decide whether or not I like a vape my experience and preferences take precedence. With that said, I purchased my first UD about 6 months ago and love it so much I purchased a second one a couple of weeks ago. I have found that a VVPS is really necessary for me. Flavor is subjective, but with a VVPS you can get the lower temp high flavor rips easily. If you want to milk out a bong, you can up the voltage and do that also, although higher temp is not as flavorful. What I like about the UD is how consistently easy it is to use. No muss, no fuss, minimal parts to clean. The stems and screens are basically disposable in the sense that anyone can make their own.

I am fairly sensitive and will not use a Solo due to headaches. I have never experienced any negative effects from using a UD. My first UD did have a slight smell from the finish that went away after being on for about 24 hours. This is just my experience, everyone has different needs and preferences. I have also never had any problems with my UD but I am really impressed with what I have read about how Dave takes care of his customers. I am confident that if I did have an issue it would be taken care of.

So my experience with UDs is overwhelmingly positive and my opinion is that they are a top notch vape. (Not that it matters, but I own about 20 others. The only ones I use are the UD, HI, CRZ, occasionally the VXC Cloud, and a Lotus for the rare times I need a portable.)

Thanks man - I really appreciate what you wrote. Silly question - but what is VVPS?

 

[Slightly Medicated]

Thanks man - I really appreciate what you wrote. Silly question - but what is VVPS?

Variable Voltage Power Supply.

The supplied power adapter is meant to run the Underdog at the optimal temperature. If you feel like you want the device to get a little hotter, investing in a Variable Volt Power Supply might be something you want to look into. I bought the one in the video from an electronics supply store around Seattle called Vetco. You can find a similar one on amazon.com for about $80. You can also use a tattoo power supply like this one at amazon.com for about $50.

 

[mvapes]

Variable Voltage Power Supply.

The supplied power adapter is meant to run the Underdog at the optimal temperature. If you feel like you want the device to get a little hotter, investing in a Variable Volt Power Supply might be something you want to look into. I bought the one in the video from an electronics supply store around Seattle called Vetco. You can find a similar one on amazon.com for about $80. You can also use a tattoo power supply like this one at amazon.com for about $50.

Wow - thats cool. Expensive - but cool...lol

 

[Slightly Medicated]

Wow - thats cool. Expensive - but cool...lol

I am running three dogs off one supply. So it evens out if you plan on running more then one. I also like the one I got because you can see the amp usage on the top. I can know how many amps each unit is pulling. Then I will not overload/not get enough energy from the power supply by trying to pull too many amps.

 

[foggy mornings]

GG?

guerilla glue

 

[OhTheAgony]

Crap, it still isn't there Djonko? If it isn't there tomorrow and you don't want to wait any longer I can drop off one of my spares if you like, just shoot me a message if you want it. You could also make a temporary one out of a short piece of the right size of the insulation of a wire and a small nail. Just wrap one end of the (bare) leads that comes from the PSU around the insulation, and attach the other one to the nail. Then insert the insulation with the wire attached to it in the UD power socket en carefully insert the nail in to the wire insulation so it makes contact with the pin inside the socket of the UD. You should be able to jam it in there if it's the right size so it'll stay in place. Be careful not to short-circuit anything of course.


SM, those are actually all three Variable Voltage PSUs you linked. A tattoo PSU has different connections, more like the socket for a headphone instead of two different connections for the positive and negative wire. They are a lot cheaper as well, you can probably find them from as little as 10 to 15 bucks.

 

[Slightly Medicated]

SM, those are actually all three Variable Voltage PSUs you linked. A tattoo PSU has different connections, more like the socket for a headphone instead of two different connections for the positive and negative wire. They are a lot cheaper as well, you can probably find them from as little as 10 to 15 bucks.

Yep, they all work as VVPS. I think I just prefer the one I got because it looks more like something an electrical engineer would use. I remember seeing them in the EE labs at college.

 

[underdog]

Hey Dogs, just want to step and say thanks for your patience and levelheadedness in regard to the happenings in the materials thread. I think most of you know me well enough to understand I take this stuff seriously and do my best to ensure you all have a safe, positive UD experience.

That being said I think it's going to come down to personal belief on whether or not you think the materials in question are ok for use in vapes and whether you want them in your Dogs. I'm happy to discuss thing further with you guys here in this thread, the pros and cons of an open core design vs a closed core design, etc.

As always you will be able to choose a customized Dog that's made to whatever specs you like including materials used. My 'office' is always open, come on in, sit down and lets talk.

I did post one final message to the materials thread this morning and because I think it has a lot of important info in it I will copy it here. I am leaving out responses I made to specific people as they are more applicable to that thread than this one but you can always read the full version over there.


<copied from the materials thread>

As always I am more than happy to make a vape to any customers preferred specs if they ask, this of course could include not using any adhesives or materials that the customer doesn't want used.

With core / air path design I think one has to first decide whether or not the core should be closed or open.

If it's open you'll have exposure to the heated wood, potential charring, the solder and flux and the metal/plastic power plug assembly.

If it's closed you can eliminate exposure to those materials but at the expense of potential exposure to whatever material is being used to close the core.

In my design I decided I'd rather attempt to seal the core and deal with the potential exposure to the silicone from that little wire gap past the bead. To me that was the lesser of the evils and so that's the design I chose to go with. Of course other people might make a different decision and luckily I can accommodate that choice if requested.

So that's that. This is a design choice I made and I still think it's the better of the options but don't try to force that viewpoint on others. People who disagree are free to buy a different vape or to contact me and have an UD made to their exacting standards as has always been the option. I don't believe there is anything wrong with this approach and as such won't spend any time arguing the merits of one over the other. UD has always been about high quality, handmade, custom vapes that allow the customer to get exactly what they want and will continue to be so.

 

[stickstones]

I'll take you up on that, Dave. I mentioned that my HI has none of that stuff in it, but you brought something up I thought about when looking at it...the resistor, or heating element used. I think the way it works (and feel free to correct me wherever I screw up) is that the air heats up via contact with the resistor and then goes straight to the herb. If that's right, then I do wonder about the safety of that thing in the airpath (I don't know what it's made of). My PD's have the air going through the SS heat sink, like I think you make your Dogs, which means the only materials safety issue there is stainless steel, which I think we have all pretty much landed on as safe.

Come to think about it, this would probably be more suited to discussion in the other thread, if you want. I would like to hear more about the pros and cons of a closed airpath vs. an open one.

 

[underdog]

Hey stickstones, ok I'll head over there and be happy to discuss that stuff.

<reposted again from the materials thread>

@ stickstones - (per your comment in the UD thread) as I touched on in some of my posts earlier in this thread I think that one of the important aspects of core design is to decide whether an open core or a closed core is appropriate for the design in question. As a manufacturer I've obviously given this some thought so lets discuss it.

So as to not have to retype what I already wrote I'm copying and pasting my comments from earlier:

With core / air path design I think one has to first decide whether or not the core should be closed or open.

If it's open you'll have exposure to the heated wood, potential charring, the solder and flux and the metal/plastic power plug assembly.

If it's closed you can eliminate exposure to those materials but at the expense of potential exposure to whatever material is being used to close the core.

In my design I decided I'd rather attempt to seal the core and deal with the potential exposure to the silicone from that little wire gap past the bead. To me that was the lesser of the evils and so that's the design I chose to go with. Of course other people might make a different decision and luckily I can accommodate that choice if requested.

I think my earlier comments sum up situation fairly well.

Closed Cores:

• The pros of closing the core are greater ability to control exposure to any undesirable elements, control over the path air takes in the product and even potential performance gains because of the better air control.

• The cons are increased manufacturing complexity and expense, some design constraints and having to choose a material with which to close the core. The material used to close the core needs to be safe, practical to use, an electrical insulator and able to withstand continuous temperatures in the 400 degree range. For me silicone has been the best material I've found for closing the core as in my mind it meets all those criteria and does a great job in practice.

Open Cores:

• The pros of an open core are simplified design and manufacturing, a much easier ability to design a user serviceable vaporizer and no need to find a solution to the problem of how to close a core.

• The cons are significant design constraints (like having to have an inline power plug and resistor for example), increased difficultly controlling the air path/flow and having to be concerned about multiple material safety issues instead of just one. Exposure to the heated wood, potential charring, the solder and flux and the metal/plastic power plug assembly to me are the primary material safety concerns with this type of core.

Many types of wood used in Log vapes (including common domestic ones not just exotics) are respiratory irritants and quite a few are outright toxic to varying degrees. There is also the possibility of inhaling charred material and while I don't know the potential concerns of that it doesn't seem like a good thing if it can be avoided. The solder (even lead free) has the potential exposure hazard of various metal toxicities and the flux as well. The metal/plastic power plug assemblies are usually what would be considered "pot metal" and are of unknown alloys and materials made at the lowest possible cost in China which I think is a concern as well.

It's my belief that a vape core design is a compromise and balancing act between the above pros and cons for both types. For my design (and I'm not saying mine is best) I decided that I was more comfortable with the glass bead/silicone potting and being potentially exposed to the little bit of silicone vs being exposed to the rest of the vape materials in totality. With the open core (and I did experiment with some) I just couldn't get behind the idea that anything coming off any part of the vape and it's materials would just waft right up the core and into my stem. I decided I'd take my chances with the silicone and still think that's the right choice for UD.

::edited to add the following::

The resistor that all log manufacturers use (to my knowledge) is a resistance wire (Nichrome probably) that's wrapped around a ceramic body and then coated with a mineral fire retardant. I don't know that there are any material safety concerns with the resistor but there could be due to potential metal toxicity of Nichrome along with the unknowns of the fire retardant material, I imagine the ceramic itself is probably inert. I doubt that as long as it's intact and not abused the resistor is much of a concern. I do think a screen in the core is good if for no other reason than to help stop any large particulate from escaping the core should the resistor suffer any damage.

 

[djonkoman]

I prepared a stem like OTA did, at first I thought it didn't work, little vapor, but that was weed I hadn't vaped before. turns out this weed just doesn't give much vapor, maybe it works better with higher temp, I'll see hopefully tomorrow.
now tried that stem with some pther weed, and works great

 

[sunsett70]

I have never visited this thread, but I will now. We are not going to allow discussions of conspiracy theories, etc. without warnings or infractions issued. They are unprovable and get us on the wrong track.

This issue is simple and does not need to get emotional or adversarial. It is all about the materials. They are either safe or they are not. Once that is determined, we can all move along and go about vaping from our favorite vapes. And the materials discussion needs to be done in the other thread. We don't want Dave's thread to get bogged down in the back and forth.

it's all about the material? what about when someone's rep gets damaged because another said or implied that the fella is trying to hide something, or that the manufacturer is a bullshiter or didn't follow his design as stated (implying further that he is a bullshiter) or someone said "somebody in the know tells me his product have safety issues" or that dave is into mocking/insulting/belittling people. dave, yeah, that's him, sounds like a right bastard...

it's easy to say "we can all move along" and you can say it's up to the person to decide to buy but what lingers? without these issues being reasonably investigated first, potentially damaging post like those leaves a stigma; like some kind of accusation that while may not be proven, leaves a stain. i feel when these kind of things happen, it becomes more just than the material, when integrity of the person is affected, even questioned. i wished you'd see that instead of repeating a hollow moral stand.

if Dave is a fucker, i would like to help put him out of business. But are his design specs totally unsound/unsafe and against 'sound industry standards' or just a preference? i leave that to you engineer types. but i do have some amateur questions for next day [like how the gg or silicon is cured, how? why does the glass bead look like Snow White's bum hole after a gangbang session with the 7 dwarfs, looks like it's ready to die and this thing is supposed to protect the air path from external stuff? what of the flaking insulator - do they still work then when flaked, it's sure a lot fuckin' thinner; and how big is 3 hundredths of an inch (.03") in relation to gas atoms? what about the discoloration in the solder ABOVE the point of the resistor/bead/silicone, that's heat discoloration and pretty significant in pic 5.] i'm too tired to start now though....

but SS, aren't you the least bit curious why someone (with super sensitive smell) would suck on a fart flavoured vape for 3 days? especially when it smells even worse on the subsequent days..... if i vaped like i was smelling farts for 3 days, i'd get a headache too.

 

[AdmiralAlpacha]

I am no scientist, but I find it odd people directly relate discoloration with releasing of harmful chemicals, many things change color based on a wide array of reasons.

Also, how do you guys reclaim your goodies off of the glass stems? I always just wash it off, but if its worth keeping I will give it a shot.

 

[Slightly Medicated]

I mostly just wash it off. With all the ABV saving and all the other stuff, I figured at some point in time it is not worth the extra effort/time involved in processing stem resins.

 

[djonkoman]

I give it a scrape with a metal stick, and then I revape that wandhash. you can get most that way(at the bowlend), so if you wash away what's left you still have some wandhash

 

[OhTheAgony]

Glad it works for you Djokno. I hate it when a weed won't vape properly. Luckily it's been a while since I came across something like that now *knocks on wood*

Wouldn't be fun at all if you end up with a whole harvest like that

I noticed I get a more thoroughly vaped bowl with the glass stem not to close to the screen btw. I have about a cm of room between them now.

For this particular reclaim I just scraped off what was on the outside of the tube with a knife, there was some nice build up on the edge of it when I took of the silicon bowl.

But normally I use a flask I have with a wide opening filled with 97% alcohol (clean stuff that's safe to consume, not the kind with the added bittering agents or cleaning alcohol) to clean oily glass parts. I just soak them in there for a few hours to a night and then it comes out almost clean. If needed I do another quick soak with hot water and some organic bong cleaner, but usually it's enough to just rinse them off with hot water.

When the alcohol is oily enough after a few months or more I poor it through a unbleached coffee filter and evaporate it off and it leaves me with some nice reclaim hash oil.

If the stems are really oily I like to just stick them in my waterpipes downstem and gently heat them with a torch until vapor is produced, it's really tasty and very potent that way. I've only done this with solo stems so far though, it looks like it'll take a few more days before I can try this with my UD stem. I suspect it'll be a little harder to prevent the oil from dripping out before it's evaporated with these. Perhaps I can fabricate something up that will allow it to stay horizontal while attached to a downstem..

 

[AdmiralAlpacha]

How does the glass stem "hash" (if you will) vape? Good clouds? Hows the taste?

 

[VaporBoxed]

How does the glass stem "hash" (if you will) vape? Good clouds? Hows the taste?

I get huge clouds with my stem hash. It doesnt have the greatest taste but it gets me baked.

 

[HighlyEducatedScholar]

just made the stem OTA posted and tried my first couple hits. love it! again a great idea there man. its nice a sturdy around the heat port and still gives me some good clouds.

 

[djonkoman]

the taste is abv-like, but a bit 'richer' I think. on my lower temp I usually end up mixing it with regular hash to let it give more vapor and faster, but on a hugher temp that may be different

 

[djonkoman]

I have to correct myself on the not-well-vaping weed, last night I already seemed to get more vapor from it, and now I just held a wake&bake with what was still in my grinder, and just took 4 vapor-bonghits wich all pretty much whitewalled my bong(no idea how it looked from the side, but from above it seemed some of the fullest vaporbonghits I've had)
I can blame OTA's stemdesign for that too tough, performs really well. I only took a little part of thick silicone tough(since I had to quit it from a stem, so didn't want to shorten that stem too much), so with about 1 cm between screen and glass means that I still have to hold the dog since the connection between glass and thick silicone is small.
but that also means I can let the glass sit in the bong if I have to refill or stir, but just take out that small silicone bit.

 

[OhTheAgony]

I'm still digging the modded stem as well, I haven't used any of my other stems the last few days.

Did you get your power plug yet Djonko? Or are you still bellow 12v?