Tornado by Vestratto

[jardri]

The sneaky pete interview with John is the best piece of info we have and it's still not much tbh. From my understanding the "big thing" with the tornado is that it's a vape designed to be induction heated that has 2 sections which get hot, there's the main oven that looks to be similar to the anvil and there's what John is calling a "Secondary Gassifier".
John's grouping the particles that make up the vapour we inhale into 3 sizes "Basketballs, baseballs and golf balls". The "golf ball" sized particles are supposed to be able to get the deepest into your lungs to maximize cannabinoid absorption. The secondary gassifier is there to try break down the particle size to try get all the vapour particles "golf ball" sized to make the device as efficient as possible.
The only other info I can find is that it will have "standard threaded connections" for the vestratto 14mm ,18mm, Proxy & Stem accessories and a %25 larger herb chamber.

So if I understand correctly, the aim is to replicate the function of the thermal battery when using flame, but with induction?

My experience so far is that while induction works really well with a thermocore it still cant match a flame

 

[kokolokokolokon]

So heating a thinner tube (condenser?) make the vapor particles thinner and it makes it easier to be absorbed?

 

[BreadStick]

So if I understand correctly, the aim is to replicate the function of the thermal battery when using flame, but with induction?

My experience so far is that while induction works really well with a thermocore it still cant match a flame

Yeah one goal Vestratto have is to replace the flame with induction. John mentioned in the interview he wants to try get his products medically certified and he believes that it will be easier to do that if induction is the heating technique.

The secondary gasifier looks to be the bread and butter of the tornado and the primary goal of the tornado seems to be maximizing the efficiency of the extraction to get you as high as possible off a small amount of herb.

So heating a thinner tube (condenser?) make the vapor particles thinner and it makes it easier to be absorbed?

Yeah pretty much, as far as I understand anyway. I think the idea is you produce vapour in your hot oven and then pass it through a another hot section where the particles will get thrashed around and brake apart. John is calling this part a "secondary gasifier" I'm not sure if I'd called it a condenser because I think they're meant to help cool the vapour down by some thermodynamic magic where as this gasifier is like meant to be like a 2nd oven.

 

[kokolokokolokon]

he wants to try get his products medically certified

This sounds like a pretty price increase

 

[Comfortably Numb]

I believe that the Tornado will screw into the an existing oven...he may have redesigned the oven frame for threaded connection on the bottom but I also believe the gasifier will be available by itself and will work with a Thermocore....I hope at least....
The gasifier extends the oven and allows for a bigger bowl...

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

Gasification. This term is impossible according to this forum if you guys remember... I bought one anyway in the name of science!

 

[VapingYogi]

I believe that the Tornado will screw into the an existing oven...he may have redesigned the oven frame for threaded connection on the bottom but I also believe the gasifier will be available by itself and will work with a Thermocore....I hope at least....
The gasifier extends the oven and allows for a bigger bowl...

"gasifier", surely there is more than one way of implementing it and maybe there is a GassyCore in the future.

 

[Vapetothegrave]

I believe the tornado will have its own 14mm, 18mm and stem accessories that use threads.

The anvil seems like it will stay its own product, unless it is phased out once tornado is commercially available.

If you have ever hit a sublimator, you know what John is talking about with gasification. If you haven't... Get excited.

 

[VapingYogi]

I'm annoyed that I am so curious as I convinced myself out of getting anything...

If you have ever hit a sublimator, you know what John is talking about with gasification. If you haven't... Get excited.

It's one of those things you had to experience I guess

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

I believe the tornado will have its own 14mm, 18mm and stem accessories that use threads.

The anvil seems like it will stay its own product, unless it is phased out once tornado is commercially available.

If you have ever hit a sublimator, you know what John is talking about with gasification. If you haven't... Get excited.

I'll believe it when I see a picture of the sublimator next to the tornado.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

I'll believe it when I see a picture of the sublimator next to the tornado.

I will go with the cook...I have faith in anything John designs...

 

[Vapetothegrave]

I'll believe it when I see a picture of the sublimator next to the tornado.

I hope we get a picture of this thing soon at least . Maybe even a video??

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

I will go with the cook...I have faith in anything John designs...

You should research gasification. The unit won't be able to do it. Just look at the design, then research the term again. Heating the head by Induction only gets all the metal to 1 temperature. It'll hit just like the Anvil does now, whatever the ball analogy is. Just my

 

[Zuhdj]

Vapor acts like water vapor. If you want finer particles, the vapor needs to be HOT. the second that hot vapor touches something cooler, like a condenser or a spirally thing or bubbler water, it cools and CONDENSES. Like a cloud. Those particles we fought to shrink come back together into "basketballs." Which makes me wonder whether bioavailability is something to chase or not.

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

Vapor acts like water vapor. If you want finer particles, the vapor needs to be HOT. the second that hot vapor touches something cooler, like a condenser or a spirally thing or bubbler water, it cools and CONDENSES. Like a cloud. Those particles we fought to shrink come back together into "basketballs." Which makes me wonder whether bioavailability is something to chase or not.

Well said friend. Needs to be Vapor, then heated Vapor to have a chance

 

[dimmusp]

Vapor acts like water vapor. If you want finer particles, the vapor needs to be HOT. the second that hot vapor touches something cooler, like a condenser or a spirally thing or bubbler water, it cools and CONDENSES. Like a cloud. Those particles we fought to shrink come back together into "basketballs." Which makes me wonder whether bioavailability is something to chase or not.

Interesting... By that logic wouldn't bongs weaken the hit for any vape? And yet I've read that they don't.

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

Interesting... By that logic wouldn't bongs weaken the hit for any vape? And yet I've read that they don't.

That's why it's best to use bongs dry for cooling with vapor. Someone on here once said vapor has water in it already and to reintroduce back into water in a bong is kinda pointless when you think about it. The glass is plenty enough to cool the finer particles.

 

[BreadStick]

After reading the tornado product page again I see there's meant to be 2 induction zones, 1 for the "gasifier" and 1 for the oven. Not sure how (less mass around the gasifier?) but maybe this will allow it to get hotter than the oven so the vapour particles might actually break down a bit. That's assuming the two parts are some how isolated enough from each other that they don't just end up the same temp

Even if that's the case @Zuhdj's point about condensation is really good and I'd be curious as to how much of a difference we'd notice after cooling the vapour.

 

[Jojofernz]

Hell yeah I’m glad there is some more discussion on this thing.

We of course gotta see when it comes out but I am also skeptical this thing could achieve what sublimator or flower kettle combined with electropath can do in regards to “gasification” but I would love to be proven wrong!

I really don’t understand any of it myself, but with the kettle and path, it’s two separate temperatures you’re keeping the head at and the bowl at.

With the tornado how will you get two different temps on chambers so close to one another? Are the two chambers heated at the same time? Separately? Also the herb being in the chamber above the lower heated “gasification” chamber confuses me too.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

You should research gasification. The unit won't be able to do it. Just look at the design, then research the term again. Heating the head by Induction only gets all the metal to 1 temperature. It'll hit just like the Anvil does now, whatever the ball analogy is. Just my

I am still a newbie in the vaping world. I read a lot here and absorb a little...I respect knowledge and you are one of the top ones on this forum.
I assume the inner gasifier will also have inductive qualities...that being said...is there a way to measure this or determine if gasification is going on at any level?
Or are you saying its to small to achieve this?

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

It won't have enough power. +700C needed In essence the initial heat chamber would form the vapor, then you would need a secondary, hotter, chamber to achieve a gas from that. An Induction coil isn't going to heat the core to two different temps, only one general temp. It's not going to happen in a portable. Just my opinion though, I would loved to be proved wrong here but the horse has been beaten already in multiple threads. I'm about to seriously try it now and tape it for science!

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Is there a way to measure or even know at all if gasification is going on in any device other than just going by the effects of a hit?

 

[invertedisdead]

In case anyone forgot, these particle size modification claims were already made 2 years ago with the original Anvil…

(See quoted post below)

Hi - John here from Vestratto
The original science this post, and the Anvil airflow design, is based on is not mine but was developed by the cigarette industry in its investigations of nicotine bioavailability and cigarette design. In designing Anvil many investigations of parallel technologies took place.

As you lower the pressure liquids boil at a lower temperature because it takes less energy for the molecules to escape. Its why in movies about mountain climbing the tea never gets hot despite boiling vigorously in the kettle. The average human generates a Maximum Inspiratory Pressure of about 80 cm/H2O. That's how hard your diaphragm can pull when you inhale. This is negligible industrially but if you've ever had to explain a hicky you know its very real. Think of an aerosol cloud as balls. Some particles are big, basketballs while some are small, marbles. As you inhale the basketballs in the cloud would get stuck in your mouth or your throat. The golf balls could go much deeper. Marbles deeper still.

Closing down the air valve on an Anvil and pulling hard with your diaphragm will decrease the pressure in the herb chamber by 80 cm/H2O resulting in a small statistical shift in the size of the aerosol particle mix towards smaller particles. These smaller particles penetrate perhaps only one bronchiole branch deeper in the lungs but that is huge in bioavailability because it doubles with each branch. With Anvil we can't generate an ideal aerosol - because we are powered by human lungs - but we can optimize the engineering and apply basic physics to improve the results. We are trying to, even if only by a small amount, shift some "basketballs into golf balls into marbles".

 

[Comfortably Numb]

In case anyone forgot, these particle size modification claims were already made 2 years ago with the original Anvil…

(See quoted post below)

You are another I pay attention to and respect here on this forum....
How can you tell if gasification is going on? Can u visibly tell?
Sorry if its a dumb question

 

[CharmCityVapeGuy]

My unscientific thought is that I had big doubts about the Anvil and went into with a lot of skepticism. I ended up being blown away by it. I’m skeptical going into the Tornado but Vestratto seems to be know what they’re doing and seem to be onto something with the Forge. It may not be the vape of my dreams but I was willing to bet it would be good, fun to use and only get better with time.