Thoughts On The State Of The Vaporizer Industry

[Engineer]

Thanks for the welcome, this is definitely an interesting forum!

I've used and analyzed quite a few... let's see, for plug-ins I own the Herbal Aire, AroMed, Arizer 2.0 and now the viVape. For portables I own the Magic Flight Launch Box, Vapeorsmoke and Vapir Air. My purchases were based on a desire to learn more about vaporizers and find out what really makes a "good" vaporizer. My summary of the industry is that it is ALL still generation ONE, like Atari was to the gaming industry. Since the Volcano introduced the electric vaporizer fifteen years ago there has been a steady evolution, but there needs to be a re-volution. Putting prettier packaging around same technology revolution does not bring.

So what does? Let's look at some examples.. the smartphone was a revolution because it fundamentally expanded and improved the user's approach the phone; facebook was a revolution because it fundamentally expanded and improved the user's approach to social media; I'll bet you can think of some good examples yourself. The portable vaporizer was a mini-revolution because expanded and improved but they are all still lacking something - if they weren't then vaporization would be mainstream.

Interesting bit of useless knowledge... the first vaporizer was patented in 1913, and used a candle under a hot plate as the heating element!

There are FOUR problems with vaporizers, in my opinion:
1. Heat-up time is too sloooow; people want Immediately Hot, even one minute is too much. Given a hurry people will opt for a pipe if they have to wait.
2. Temperature control is waaay inaccurate; temperature stability is essential to guarantee dense, smoke-free vapor (high vapor quality).
3. Too complicated; the user's going to be 'relaxed' and the device must be usable without thought.
4. Why they all gotta be so uuuugly! The viVape did make a prettier box, but they missed on #1-3.. so they are not the revolution they hoped for.

Thanks for the thorough review, Engineer. Can you tell us what other vaporizers you have used and could compare this to besides the EQ?

Oh, and welcome to FC!

Modnote: The following 7 posts were split from the viVape thread to facilitate discussion.

 

[Stu]

All very good points, Engineer. I think you will fit in very well around here. Grab a chair and stay awhile.

The revolution will come.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

Engineer -

Vaporizers are still a cottage industry. Storz & Beckel, the largest, only has <40 employees. An educated guess would be that most companies have no more than a dozen FTE's, even half that or less. There appear to be more than a half-dozen engineering disciplines required in designing a quality full-featured product, very tough to pull off with such limited resources. There is an obvious lack of sophistication in the development process itself. And then there are the funding challenges.

From what I've seen, there are very few potential break-out products, maybe the Cloud which could offer a significantly superior experience and the Oracle with its new technology. But to be real game-changers, those (or any others) will have to be more than point products; they will have to be platforms that can be leveraged in such a way that price points come down and market appeal broadened. It is this kind of competitive shock wave that forces consolidation and maturation.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

obg -- i whole heartedly agree with this. Plus! i think it is kind of hard to plan to build a business on what is fundamentally an illegal product. Timing is everything as the states gradually go medical, or even legal.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

. . . i think it is kind of hard to plan to build a business on what is fundamentally an illegal product. Timing is everything as the states gradually go medical, or even legal.

I agree 100% re the legality issue; forgot to mention that. Effectively this cuts off the prospect of angel money, so development must be funded out of the principals' pockets and/or cash flow from an existing product and/or private investors which will be by definition limited.

While there are many stories about this or that break-through product or technology, few people actually know how these come to fruition nor how steep the odds are against making this happen. Especially in a very small company let alone a self-funded start-up. Many if not most of the time just plain luck is a major factor.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Many if not most of the time just plain luck is a major factor.

yes, i see that over and over. sometimes good design is irrelevant. i think passion counts for a lot -- and pride and ego.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

. . . i think passion counts for a lot -- and pride and ego.

Indeed, passion and ego. There are soooooo many examples of this, including when ruthlessness is added in, the good crushing the best.

 

[Engineer]

But to be real game-changers, those (or any others) will have to be more than point products; they will have to be platforms that can be leveraged in such a way that price points come down and market appeal broadened. It is this kind of competitive shock wave that forces consolidation and maturation.

Agreed, and it will come because there is both demand and profit to be made. What, in your opinion, are the specific short comings inherent in all/most vaporizers?

 

[Engineer]

Another question I would LOVE to hear feedback on... Why do so many people still opt to spend $550/$650 for a Volcano Classic/Digit? Truly, the Volcano is perceived as being the best, and why is that? I am an Engineer, not a marketer and so I am very interested to hear why people still buy this product.

 

[hazy]

I think it's just a case of the blind leading the blind. I've seen on other forums people asking what vape they should get, and often someone will say "get the Volcano, it's the best", even though they don't really have a clue. It's probably the only vape they've heard of, and at $600, it must be good, right?

 

[Ymir]

. . . i think it is kind of hard to plan to build a business on what is fundamentally an illegal product. Timing is everything as the states gradually go medical, or even legal.

I agree 100% re the legality issue; forgot to mention that. Effectively this cuts off the prospect of angel money, so development must be funded out of the principals' pockets and/or cash flow from an existing product and/or private investors which will be by definition limited.

While there are many stories about this or that break-through product or technology, few people actually know how these come to fruition nor how steep the odds are against making this happen. Especially in a very small company let alone a self-funded start-up. Many if not most of the time just plain luck is a major factor.

On top of the legal barrier, it's not the most significant issue. I would suggest that lack of marketing (tied to legal) and simple fact that the target market, although large in theory, is too small to justify a major investment in ongoing product development.

Ask 2 questions:
1)how long was it, after you first tried a vape, before you bought your own?
2) how many people that you know, who smoke, that buy products in head shops?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

What, in your opinion, are the specific short comings inherent in all/most vaporizers?

(1) plastic in the air path

(2) metal screen in the bowl

(3) very few have accurate temperature control

(4) herb is put upside down into the heater and can fall out

(5) not mobile -- needs to be plugged into the wall

(6) too big -- not desktop compatible

 

[TriiKLe]

Good thinking ENGINEER.

 

[biojuggernaut]

What, in your opinion, are the specific short comings inherent in all/most vaporizers?

(1) plastic in the air path

(2) metal screen in the bowl

(3) very few have accurate temperature control

(4) herb is put upside down into the heater and can fall out

(5) not mobile -- needs to be plugged into the wall

(6) too big -- not desktop compatible

Good thinking hippie.

 

[Engineer]

What, in your opinion, are the specific short comings inherent in all/most vaporizers?

(1) plastic in the air path
>>> Totally agree! People are now aware that drinking water from plastic bottles left in the sun is bad, obviously vaporizers won't go mainstream with heated plastic being inhaled. Good point #1.

(2) metal screen in the bowl
>>> Not sure why this is a problem. Please explain. Traditional pipes have metal screens and they are ubiquitous, so why not vaporizers?

(3) very few have accurate temperature control
>>> I would argue that NONE have even close to accurate temperature control, especially those using a whip. First, NONE are telling the temperature of the air at the herb (usually it measures some distant point in the heating element not the airflow), and the whip versions where the user controls the airflow are not able to maintain temperature because of the changing flow rate. Why do we care? Consistency! Without consistent temperature the Vapor Quality is unrepeatable and therefore unreliable, and therefore the vaporization experience is not good.

(4) herb is put upside down into the heater and can fall out
>>> Yeah, that is just annoying! And anything annoying prevents widespread acceptance.

(5) not mobile -- needs to be plugged into the wall
>>> Same response as to #4. This is a pretty big issue, again hitting on the annoying factor.

(6) too big -- not desktop compatible

>>> But the volcano is so small! Err, wait a minute. Yup, that's a problem too.

Great points! Really, you clearly understand the limits of the technology, but Come on, what else... how about the ease of use, even the aesthetics, what about the overall quality, or setup time, etc. If you were to invent the perfect vaporizer, what would be its features?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Ah, but i did invent the perfect (for me) vaporizer, i.e. the Bud Toaster. There's a thread. But the salient features are:

(1) all glass. only herb and glass in the air path. i used a metal screen in earlier models (8 years ago) until i got some 0.75mm diamond drill bits for my Dremel.

(2) computer temperature control. the computer samples the thermocouple 3 times per second. i'm still dealing with a bit of temperature jiggle -- need to make another pass at the PID gains, but uploading values from the eePROM is a pita.

(3) temperature display. this is a separate thermometer, so the software isn't fudging the reading. The thermometer probe is against the outside of the glass oven tube at the hottest point of the heater coil. The computer's k-type thermometer probe is adjacent to this. The thermometer is providing a more time-averaged temperature.

(4) battery powered. i want fast response so there are two 26650 A123Systems LiFePO4 cells. A full charge lasts for 9 to 10 sessions of 7.5 minutes each. Time from room temperature to first hit is 100 seconds. The temp only drops about 0.5F during a hit and recovers within seconds (and overshoots a bit -- damn gains). Having batteries than can deliver 12 amps is the answer.

(5) small. The vaporizer body is separate from the power pack. It easily fits in the palm. i can hold the stem and the vape with one hand, but i do have large hands.

(6) pretty. It's Perfect! A perfect cube, that is, 2" x 2" x 2", made of wood. Weights 3 oz.

There's still an issue with heat saturation -- the temperature drifts up as the interior finally reaches temperature equilibrium. So, while the k-type thermocouple is reading 388F, the thermometer display is showing 382F, until about 7 minutes later, when (coincidentally?) the trichomes have been exhausted.

i've decided i can live with that. It provides a visual readout of when the vial is cashed out.

 

[pakalolo]

If you were to invent the perfect vaporizer, what would be its features?

Ah, but i did invent the perfect (for me) vaporizer, i.e. the Bud Toaster. There's a thread.

Sorry Engineer but you walked right into that one.

 

[Engineer]

I love it! It sort of looks like the Mars Rover and a swamp hover craft had a baby. Oh, and Playmate of the year of course, because that is a sexy beast!

 

[scottio19]

thanks for the summary, Hippie Dickie! Never knew all those things about it because I have only read a few pages of your thread.

I think regulated temp control should be the new standard in this industry, as stated by others. That, and ease of use will help convert more smokers I think.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

@Engineer - thanks -- and it works better than it looks.

I think regulated temp control should be the new standard in this industry, as stated by others. That, and ease of use will help convert more smokers I think.

i totally agree - regulated temp control made all the difference in the design over the previous Ohms law fixed temperature design. No need to try to find the 11v to 13.5v that gives enough temperature to brown the herb. No drop in temp with a hit.

Ease of use: there are three LEDs for user output and two buttons for user input.

blue LED: power applied to cube -- goes out when the batteries are spent.

red LED: on when heater coil is activated and flickers to show the changing amount of current applied to the heater. So you KNOW it's working.

green LED: on when the heater is at or above setpoint. That is, when the green comes on, take a hit and continue until done. The green LED slowly flashes on and off as the temperature dances at the set point.

Before session starts:
hold button 1 for 2 seconds and release: resets to factory default setting: 385F
hold button 2 for 2 seconds and release: start the session

During the session:
press and release button 1: increase setpoint temp by 5F
press and release button 2: decrease setpoint temp by 4F

The computer remembers the setpoint and returns to that value each session. i only change the setpoint depending on the dank of the herb.

 

[Vapemania]

What, in your opinion, are the specific short comings inherent in all/most vaporizers?

Well, the 4 points you mention in your OP capture the major issues concerning the shortcomings with vaporisers.

With portable vaporizers, I think MFLB have achieved the major needs for users. It's a gem of a product.
I won't mention what they are as you will know yourself as an owner!

Of course, it has its shortcomings: rather small, maplewood needs rubberised/metallic exterior added, drawing method isn't so comfortable, screen can't be replaced by user, cleaning below the screen is difficult, batteries work at lower temps after each toke, rectangle shape may be replaced with something more ergonomic, rotating perspex may be replaced with easier push-pull movement, and so on.

Even so, it is efficient, stealthy and cheap.
And the warranty is literally unbelievable.

But I want to mention the desktop vapes.
These are the real things because they're heavy hitters.

Now, I'm not criticising specific products here, but simply want to provide examples to answer your question.
You're right, the Volcano is too small.
I think this probably created the design mould which all other vapes would follow.
If I spend $539, then I want something substantial. Especially as it is a mechanical item. It's not an Iphone.

Bag vape is crazy.
But if Volcano does it, then HA and Arizer EQ will do it.
If you're having a party, then wipe the whip or give each person a stem.
You don't get them to suck out of a balloon! IMO.

The log vapes are too small.
It's recently been found that smaller is more efficient.
Also, it can be used more easily with glassware.
But smaller is not necessarily more beautiful.

When sitting down in front of a desktop vape, you want to have something large, heavy and simple to use.
It won't fall and break so easily.
For adjustment, you don't want to move yourself or your vape: You want to move the stem.
So the stem should be adjustable.

The vape should be used just by itself. That's what you pay for.
It shouldn't be used with bubblers etc in mind.
When the THC goes through water, it's absorbed by the water.
Immediately, you've reduced efficiency.
If you lower efficiency, then you reduce the value of your product.
People buy vapes not to admire wood or glass, or to impress friends, but to get high.
So efficiency is paramount.

Whips and bags also increase the distance between the herb chamber and ingestion. So THC is lost in that distance.
This suggests stems are the most effective toking tool.

Convection heating is the most healthy means of heating the herb. So vapes that employ conduction will not be as good.
The airpath should be clear also, although the screen, as you've mentioned will be fine cos metal takes a lot of heat to vaporise.

Vapes are heaters with a straw on the end.
A revolution would be to change that.
For example, how about inhaling above a large cylindrical tube which encloses your entire mouth?
This removes the need for bag/whip/stem and increases efficiency.
The tube can house the heater and herb chamber in a lower compartment.

But essentially, why can't the heater be made to reach 149C to 212C?
The heater needs to have dynamic temp readings all the time.
That way, it vaporises a rainbow of active agent with each toke.
The toke can reduce the temp back to 149C, and then by the time you're ready for another toke, the heater can reach 212C again. This way you'll always have varied active agents with each toke.

Alternatively, if the heater can be sensitive to +/- 5C, then the user can start at a low temp and finish at 212 knowing that all the active agent has been drawn.

Any vape which proves that the proper vaping temps are reached in the herb chamber will sell.
Period.

Herb conservation is more important than the cost of the unit.

Sorry for the long reply.
This post is addressed to Engineer.

 

[max]

There are FOUR problems with vaporizers, in my opinion:
1. Heat-up time is too sloooow; people want Immediately Hot, even one minute is too much. Given a hurry people will opt for a pipe if they have to wait.
2. Temperature control is waaay inaccurate; temperature stability is essential to guarantee dense, smoke-free vapor (high vapor quality).
3. Too complicated; the user's going to be 'relaxed' and the device must be usable without thought.
4. Why they all gotta be so uuuugly! The viVape did make a prettier box, but they missed on #1-3.. so they are not the revolution they hoped for.

1- I'm people and "Immediately Hot" is not an issue for me at home (and my CRZ is ready all the time), and not even that big a deal with a portable. And if a few seconds for the LB to heat up is too slow, then your choices are going to be limited for quite a while. Fast heatup time is easily attainable for some designs, but just like combining a 0-60 mph of 5 seconds with high fuel efficiency, you sometimes have to make choices. Affordable technology to give you everything in one package is often far off in the future.

Given a hurry people will opt for a pipe if they have to wait.

Maybe you would. I would need a lot more motivation than a short wait. I hate smoke with a passion.

2- Precise temperature control is waaay overrated in some cases. It's an opinion that many experienced vaporists hold. As far as the 2nd part goes, temp stability isn't necessarily essential, nor do you need dense vapor in order to have high vapor quality. Some people can't even handle dense vapor. And all vapor is smoke free as long as you stay below combustion temp.

3- They're not all complicated. Usable without thouht is a convenience, not a necessity, and some vapes meet that qualification after practice.

4- They're just all ugly to you. I would never wear any clothing that's baby blue, but that's just me. I'm certainly not gonna claim that it's inherently ugly. Certainly many people would disagree with your claim that all current vapes are ugly.

The log vapes are too small.

You clearly like a huge vape. I'd say most people don't. Clearly the consensus with log vapes is that the new, smaller size is preferred. And many think that log vapes are, or can be, beautiful. To me, the viVape is ugly compared to several log vapes I own.

the Volcano is too small.

To me, it's too big. Size is just personal preference. Should everyone drive a big car because you like 'em big?

When sitting down in front of a desktop vape, you want to have something large, heavy and simple to use.

No, I want something small and relatively light.

Vapes are heaters with a straw on the end. A revolution would be to change that.

Then the revolution has already happened. Your other requirements are also just personal preferences. For instance, water filtration is very popular and has advantages that a particular user may much prefer vs. a very slight loss of active compounds in the water. I'd guess that efficiency is more important to you than filtering out particulates. Personally, in the heavy hitter category, since that seems important to you, I've found that the Cloud blows away the competition for the combination of ease of use and heavy hitting. Any inefficiency due to water filtration is minor, and since it can be used without water .... And the fact that no production units have been shipped yet would be nit picking. The performance has been well documented by multiple testers.

Most of these wants and needs are personal preferences IMO, and assumptions are being made, as far as 'everyone wants/needs these characteristics', that can't be backed up. Also, the vape industry is still in its infancy. You could just as easily complain that computers are too big, too expensive, etc. and that cars should be able to drive themselves without human input.

Another question I would LOVE to hear feedback on... Why do so many people still opt to spend $550/$650 for a Volcano Classic/Digit? Truly, the Volcano is perceived as being the best, and why is that? I am an Engineer, not a marketer and so I am very interested to hear why people still buy this product.

It's perceived to be the best by those who have just turned the 1st page in the book that's 'vapor info', and are buying the long running hype that's been outdated for years. Even back in '07, when this forum was started, the 'cano was just the best bag filler.

 

[Vapemania]

I'm people and "Immediately Hot" is not an issue for me at home

Yes, but that's because you're patient. Not everyone is like that.

(and my CRZ is ready all the time)

This means that you leave your CRZ on 24/7.
Due to cost of energy nowadays and global warming, consumers now want products that don't waste energy, such as leaving a CRZ on all day.
Energy consrvation sells.

The MFLB is a vape which uses green technology and is very popular.

Fast heatup time is easily attainable for some designs, but just like combining a 0-60 mph of 5 seconds with high fuel efficiency, you sometimes have to make choices. Affordable technology to give you everything in one package is often far off in the future.

Yes, but constraints in manufacture are for the manufacturer to deal with. Not consumers.
As consumers, we need to know what we want. What is good for us. What really makes us happy.

Manufacturers want to know this because it determines their survival.
Manufacturers know with experience that consumers will tell them they love them, but they'll buy from the competitor. And that's cos the competitor is providing what consumers really want.

You clearly like a huge vape. I'd say most people don't.

Indeed.
It is a question of personal opinion.
But what is the majority personal opinion?
That is the key.

The only way of finding out is for people to express their personal opinion.
To say what they really want, not what the manufacturer can really provide.
If a manufacturer only hears from consumers that only like his product, then in time, that will become a dead product.

Clearly the consensus with log vapes is that the new, smaller size is preferred.

A new development with log vapes appears to be that smaller size increases efficiency.
This will therefore influence opinion.

However, I agree that FC members seem to prefer smaller logs.
But is that the desire of the majority? That is the key.
Every manufacturer wants to know what most people really want.

And many think that log vapes are, or can be, beautiful.

The wood exterior of log vapes is undoubtedly beautiful.
But vaping is not about wood.

The beige leather interior of a Ferrari may be very nice.
But a Ferrari is not about leather.

the Volcano is too small.

To me, it's too big. Size is just personal preference. Should everyone drive a big car because you like 'em big?

Fair point.
Like you say, it is personal preference.
We just need to know what most people really want.

water filtration is very popular and has advantages that a particular user may much prefer vs. a very slight loss of active compounds in the water.

Yes, but you have not mentioned what the advantages of water filtration are with vaping.

Also, we cannot know if there is a 'very slight loss of active compounds' with water filtration. This can only be speculation.

However, scientific studies have proved that 'waterpipes and filters filter out psychoactive THC with the tars, thereby requiring users to smoke more to reach their desired effect'.
That is not speculation. (Wiki)

I've found that the Cloud blows away the competition for the combination of ease of use and heavy hitting. Any inefficiency due to water filtration is minor, and since it can be used without water .... And the fact that no production units have been shipped yet would be nit picking. The performance has been well documented by multiple testers.

Well then, we await the arrival of the VXC with great anticipation.
Some poor baskets have been waiting for over a year!

Most of these wants and needs are personal preferences IMO

Precisely.
And this is what you and I are offering.
This is valuable for manufacturers to know.

As they say 'You don't get, if you don't ask'.

Also, the vape industry is still in its infancy. You could just as easily complain that computers are too big, too expensive, etc. and that cars should be able to drive themselves without human input.

Exactly.
And all cars should drive only by the use of human thought.
But this can never happen unless we want it, and we demand it. Without this, we would all be still driving the Model T Ford. There would be no progress.

 

[Seek]

I'm people and "Immediately Hot" is not an issue for me at home

Yes, but that's because you're patient. Not everyone is like that.

I solve this by plugging the vape and turning in on BEFORE i prepare herbs, grind them and stuff. Then it's immediately ready when I'm ready. No waiting. It's about organization of your time.

This means that you leave your CRZ on 24/7.
Due to cost of energy nowadays and global warming, consumers now want products that don't waste energy, such as leaving a CRZ on all day.
Energy consrvation sells.
The MFLB is a vape which uses green technology and is very popular.

That's another point why logs ARE selling. They are slow, because they draw only few watts. Much less than a LB. Overall, it will be a little more energy usage at 24/7 run, but not much. If you count losses at charger it could even be the same.

However, I agree that FC members seem to prefer smaller logs.
But is that the desire of the majority? That is the key.

I think majority desires smaller. Because smaller means more space-efficiency. Also bigger devices tend to be easier breakable. If they fall, they hit ground harder. Also bigger implies, that it's made of more component so more chances something disconnects or something. Unless it's big metal piece like DBV i trust small one-piece units like MFLB or logs to be sturdier. Also if a a vape does it's job great, bigger version doesn't have to be better. Also bigger doesn't have to mean more performance, Supreme is an excelent example. I am curious what positives you see at big vapes. Tell me.

And many think that log vapes are, or can be, beautiful.

The wood exterior of log vapes is undoubtedly beautiful.
But vaping is not about wood.

But the your original issue he was answering was about ugliness of vapes...

Yes, but you have not mentioned what the advantages of water filtration are with vaping.

It doen't give you sore throat. Easier to take bigger hits. Smooth taste.

Also, we cannot know if there is a 'very slight loss of active compounds' with water filtration. This can only be speculation.

In theory, cannabinoids are minimaly soluble in water.
In practice, I get the same effects and after many session without changing water, i see only few tiny bits of solid cannbinoids floating in water. No way I could call that signigicant loss. Much more cannbinoids condense on surfaces and even more you exhale.

However, scientific studies have proved that 'waterpipes and filters filter out psychoactive THC with the tars, thereby requiring users to smoke more to reach their desired effect'.
That is not speculation. (Wiki)

Well, I've answered it right above, loswses are there, but the main question is - are they signifficant? No.

Also, the vape industry is still in its infancy. You could just as easily complain that computers are too big, too expensive, etc. and that cars should be able to drive themselves without human input.

Exactly.
And all cars should drive only by the use of human thought.
But this can never happen unless we want it, and we demand it. Without this, we would all be still driving the Model T Ford. There would be no progress.

Manufacturers are of course trying their best to invent the best vape possible. And they age going forward. Every year, there are new vapes, that brings something great. It just needs time and keep demands so the progress doesn't stop.

You are obviously trying to find the universaly best vape. If you want to know what that vape is check the tiny hidden text under fuckcombustion logo. You can find best vape for you, but as you can see, people have too much different demands.

 

[Seek]

I've said there that there is progress. In that part of the text I was practicaly saying the same. There will never be the universaly best vape. Because there can always be a better one or someone different will not like it for some reason.

Now there are much better vapes and more of them than years ago. And the progress is still going, imo faster than ever. The Cloud is arriving giving beautiful performance with all-glass and there already exists a Bud Toaster that appears to be a smaller battery-operated brother of VXC. For myself I call that rapid progress in the vape world assuming that this is only one example.

Ideal vape for me?
-battery operation AND power adapter operation (as low energy consumption as possible)
-the faster the heat up/cool down time the better.
-great convection (+ IR if heat up is fast, that could be superb)
-as small as possible unless it impairs performance
-enclosed thin herb chamber for efficient fast draw (like in logs, herbalaire, or VXC), variable length of it
-unbreakable
-simple to use
-knob temp controll
-safe materials of course
-easy to clean
-no lights (i will know when it's ready, don't need them, also ruins any stealth)
-water filtration possibility
-plus minus 5C error
-discreet functional look (as many vapes wear)

I will probably wait a while until some vape comes with all these The Bud Toaster/VXC/PAMFLB/logs/ThermoVape are very near. They're all very different, because all of them are lacking different few points of that list. And I think VXC/PAMFLB combo could meet all of these. And I'm going to have that combo.