Discontinued ThermoVape

[Quetzalcoatl]

All their thermovape products are 510 threaded? Like the loose leaf top? I know the dart is, but not sure about the others.

Is their 18650 battery any good, or would one be better off getting the Sony VTC5, or the like for their mech mod?

No, I mean "thermovape" being the first generation. Cera with the LL/EO/EL carts, are a different threading. Still waiting on an adapter to be released officially from them to make the carts 510 compatible.

Personally I'm using a Sony VTC5 in my mech mod and use my DART on it, works fine. I'm not going to worry about buying another battery but the ones that come with it are known to work.

 

[lesvape]

What about the Evolution/T1 with the LL top?

Where did you get your VTC5 from? I have a mech mod, but looking to get another battery and noticed their 18650 battery is priced fair, just wasn't sure how it compares.

 

[OF]

What about the Evolution/T1 with the LL top?

Where did you get your VTC5 from? I have a mech mod, but looking to get another battery and noticed their 18650 battery is priced fair, just wasn't sure how it compares.

Thus far, all the testing with EO and LL carts on 510 thread supplies has involved home made adapters. Hopefully 'any time now' TV will made one and this can be a serious option. IMO the Cera with it's 18650 battery is superior for the duty, but the 17670 is useful.

As to how the VTC5 compares to the two common types now in use (NCR18650PS and CGR18650CH) that's a question I hope to have an answer for very soon. I have a pair (minimum order) coming in from Orbitronics, hopefully today (although it's disappeared from USPS tracking......):
http://www.orbtronic.com/sony-18650-2600mah-vtc5-30a-high-drain-hybrid-imr-li-ion-battery

I've built a test fixture to give them a realistic (I hope) load, and will post the results when I have them.

OF

 

[lesvape]

What would be the difference between flat top and button top models? Like are they specific to particular tube design?

 

[OF]

What would be the difference between flat top and button top models? Like are they specific to particular tube design?

Slightly larger volume in flat tops, but they don't fit some battery holders and vapes.

OF

 

[catbird]

The Alpha stuff relates to their ecig line, Apex Vapor iirc. The first ejuice atomizer was called the AVA, Apex Vapor Atomizer Apex Alpha = ecig line, ThermoVape = medical cannabis device.

@Quetzalcoatl - Thanks. It was unclear to me that when the ThermoVape dudes would say "Alpha Ultra," they were referring to an Ultra body with an e-cig cartridge, as I now gather from your response and @OF's response, and the Apex Alpha stuff I found on the internet. I had been trying to figure out if it was the same body as the plain old Ultra that's often referred to, or a different body. I can't say I'm completely clear on the lingo and how the terminology is used, or even if what I wrote in the first part of this response is correct, but I am clear on the fact that it's not a different body than the Ultra. ThermoVape Ultra = Apex Vapor Ultra, amiright?

 

[OF]

ThermoVape Ultra = Apex Vapor Ultra, amiright?

Probably.

Like I said, I gave up on it and went with battery size?

Here's another key to this, when T1 came about there were no other cannabis based products. It was the first. The first battery tubes even said "Alpha" on them, not TV. And the Delrin heat shield hadn't happened (e-cigs don't build up heat the same way).

The main point is the parts interchange across the lines. When DART tubes ran out, TV started using the e-cig version, there are DART carts out there that say "Alpha" on them? But you can take an adapter or cart off one and use it on the other. Even the switches interchange.

OF

 

[catbird]

The main point is the parts interchange across the lines. When DART tubes ran out, TV started using the e-cig version, there are DART carts out there that say "Alpha" on them? But you can take an adapter or cart off one and use it on the other. Even the switches interchange.

Thanks, that does seem to be the main point. Also, I realized that the UltraLite thread on FC is called "Alpha UltraLite," and the first photo is captioned "Alpha UltraLite with Revolution DART LV," so Alpha is not being used to refer to anything e-cig. So maybe that's not what it means in this context, or maybe it got conflated with the body name when it was meant to refer to the cartridge. I think it doesn't matter in that now I am clear on how the components are used, even if I am not clear on how they are named!

 

[OF]

Also, I realized that the UltraLite thread on FC is called "Alpha UltraLite," and the first photo is captioned "Alpha UltraLite with Revolution DART LV," so Alpha is not being used to refer to anything e-cig.

Like I said, it's confusing. The 10440 based 'UL' was not only developed for e-cigs, but until Tim at TV tried it out never intended to be used in the herb related products. I got one to Beta test well into the Revolution/DART project. It came with a fancy metal case that had been made up years before for e-cig use. It has wells for the unit, a couple of DART size carts (same as the Alpha) and the 'juice' bottle we don't have any use for. Clearly an e-cig product 'moved over'.

The 10440 is better suited to 2.4 and more Ohm loads. DART is pushing too hard, really, IMO. It's really not all that much smaller than the 14500 based supplies.

OF

 

[catbird]

Yeah, I am in the market for an Ultra, not an UltraLite -- was just pointing out the use of the word Alpha. Anyway, knowing the e-cig background of these products is helpful/much of what was missing for me as far as context.

 

[lesvape]

I tried ebay and amazon, but no luck on finding the Dart. Where can one get the Dart now?

 

[OF]

As to how the VTC5 compares to the two common types now in use (NCR18650PS and CGR18650CH) that's a question I hope to have an answer for very soon. I have a pair (minimum order) coming in from Orbitronics, hopefully today (although it's disappeared from USPS tracking......):
http://www.orbtronic.com/sony-18650-2600mah-vtc5-30a-high-drain-hybrid-imr-li-ion-battery

I've built a test fixture to give them a realistic (I hope) load, and will post the results when I have them.

I got my batteries today and gave them a quick test, described on the Cera thread. Basically I'd have to say all 3 are more or less the same as we use them, with the NCR going a dozen or so hits (a bit over 10%) longer. More testing called for.

OF

 

[catbird]

Someone shared this photo with me (it's probably up here somewhere, but I hadn't seen it). I think it provides a good visual breakdown of the ThermoVape first generation line. It seems like it has all the body sizes and carts and illustrates how they are combined (and, by extension, how they can be deconstructed). This image helped me consolidate the information I had already gotten through more of a piecemeal process.

 

[Mynameismud]

I tried ebay and amazon, but no luck on finding the Dart. Where can one get the Dart now?

Vaporenvy

 

[catbird]

Yay I got my Ultra/Alpha Ultra/whatever. Thanks @OF and @Quetzalcoatl and anyone else for helping me dissect this product line.

EDIT: and @kushcabbage and @jambandphan03

 

[lesvape]

I take the lose leaf top works bets on a mechanical mod, or can something like the iTaste MVP(which isn't mechanical) or any VV ecig work with the LL?

 

[OF]

I take the lose leaf top works bets on a mechanical mod, or can something like the iTaste MVP(which isn't mechanical) or any VV ecig work with the LL?

No known 'mods' work with Cera LL carts, the threads are different. Unless you make your own, you'll have to wait for a thread adapter. You can see mine with a couple of Cera carts, as you can see the 510 connector is much smaller:


None of the commonly available VV e-cigs can supply enough current, even with an adapter to fix the threads. The Cera carts are under one Ohm.

OF

 

[jambandphan03]

just like to add that I would have bought Cera cores and given TET more business if they had made it possible to connect to the first line gear, by creating an adapter... I feel they missed a lot of business by neglecting to do this. I imagine a lot of other folk with original gear would feel the same way.

 

[hanfhead]

I feel exactly that way. I feel they abandoned their first generation of customers when they promised reverse compatibility forever and immediately released the cera with different threads.

 

[OF]

just like to add that I would have bought Cera cores and given TET more business if they had made it possible to connect to the first line gear, by creating an adapter... I feel they missed a lot of business by neglecting to do this. I imagine a lot of other folk with original gear would feel the same way.

While I understand this idea, and agree to a point, it's not all beer and skittles. I'm made a few such adapters and the 17670 (the most powerful battery available in the old line) really isn't up to the demands of Cera. Cera EO does OK, but the LL really suffers I think.

Persei does an interesting job, however......

Put another way, I don't use my adapters?

I feel exactly that way. I feel they abandoned their first generation of customers when they promised reverse compatibility forever and immediately released the cera with different threads.

I'm sorry to disagree. IMO they promised no such thing, can you please point to it? We asked for, and got, a new model with features we asked for.

TIA

OF

 

[jambandphan03]

good point OF, I had thought of this briefly after posting... now that you mention it, I do recall some prior discussion about batteries not being powerful enough...

**you mention persei, what about the core dialed down to 3.7v? That would probably work ok with a hammer top head ( click on, click off, 2 min safety shut off) but it's really doesn't matter much with out adapters... heh

 

[hanfhead]

Hi OF,
You thought so at one time. As I would assume a lot of people did.

will the T2 generation main parts (heat cores etc) be compatible with the T1 generation??

Yes, that's my understanding. I asked and am pretty sure I heard a solid yes. For sure I'm planning on adding to, rather than replacing, my current gear. If it wasn't a big step forward, I'm sure it wouldn't be happening. Noah kept a list of all the issues brought up and addressed them all.....scientist approach you know, mixed in with the engineer?

The ThermoVape T1 (and future fully compatible versions, T2..) will always represent the device that we manufacture to push the limits of portable convection vaporization in terms of power and performance.

Having it be 510 compatible and available in Standard (for 6V or Variable Voltage use) and Low voltage for 3.7 Volt (3.7-4.2V) use makes this device very exciting. It opens up a whole world of devices that can now be a high performance, American Made, Medical Device grade, botanical vaporizer.

OK, so now that we have had almost 10 months since producing the T1 and it was such a success it was only a matter of time before we had to build something to compete solely with the it. We took all the input of our customers of what they liked and what they didn't and applied it directly to our next Generation of devices. Just like the T1 platform we made no compromises with the next, it will raise the standard of every portable vape in the market!

Here's a few things we took into account and improved on(or fixed entirely):

• 500% better battery life (literally! probably more)
• Device runs much cooler (as your holding it)
• Much more efficient core design and more resistant to combustion
• No more clogging
• Cores are nearly indestructible (as if they weren't before )
• Extremely easy to operate (and even safer!!)
• Still has 510 Comparability!!

This device is truly going to raise the par on ANY portable vaporizer, as-well as desktop units, this will in fact be the device that many replace their old desktop vapes with.
Don't you worry, there is more information to come in the coming weeks!
Cheers,
Tim

Oh....And what ever happened to this guy?

Hey everyone!

We had a blast up in Seattle through the weekend! We are working on a blog with pictures and whatnot to share to everyone how we did.

Here's a teaser on our way home through Norcal

Enjoy!

Tim

 

[OF]

Hi OF,
You thought so at one time. As I would assume a lot of people did.

Oh....And what ever happened to this guy?

Nope, sorry. I never thought that. Within half a minute of first seeing the Cera Beta unit we'd started discussing the connector. Nothing is the same, really. You seem to be confusing models? Revolution/DART, Evolution and T1 are a different animal. T2 ran into size limits trying to fit the 18650 (notice the T1 core size) which led to a long pause with the Cera being the result of a lot of testing of ideas and customer recommendations. I think the Tim post you cite above sums it up well:

"OK, so now that we have had almost 10 months since producing the T1 and it was such a success it was only a matter of time before we had to build something to compete solely with the it. We took all the input of our customers of what they liked and what they didn't and applied it directly to our next Generation of devices. Just like the T1 platform we made no compromises with the next, it will raise the standard of every portable vape in the market!"

I think he meant it's a different (competitive) product, not an extension of the line. Cera is not a T1 or T2 or anything Alpha based. From the time we first saw it, it has been essentially the same, my original Beta LL core is basically what is sold today. While hopefully an adapter to put the Cera cores on 510 (and hopefully 601) thread happen, there is no plan I know of to make the other one (so you could run say a DART on a Cera battery), and I asked. They don't, I think, see Cera as being 'downward compatible'.

Seems you missed it, Tim left TV to help run the family business when his mother died. A year or so ago? I saw him a while back, he's a busy cabinet maker these days. Still full of ideas and no time.

OF

 

[Yoosh]

I'm still relatively new to my T1 (~6 months) so I'm not in a rush to upgrade to their new generation.

I think TET tries their best to do right by their long-standing customers (you can have your old cores fixed/rewired) but sometimes unforseen consequences (even positive ones like the increased power of the new core) can spring up. Give them another generation and I think they'll really burst into the public vaping scene in a big way. A PC to Pax's Mac perhaps?

I'll say that, although I plan on grabbing a cera/luna eventually, a revamped T1 (size/style/function) would be my perfect portable.

 

[OF]

Give them another generation and I think they'll really burst into the public vaping scene in a big way. A PC to Pax's Mac perhaps?

I'll say that, although I plan on grabbing a cera/luna eventually, a revamped T1 (size/style/function) would be my perfect portable.

I too think they are on the path. Cera is just too expensive and hard to produce. They can't mass market it (by discounting through dealers), something Luna is intended to 'fix'. Luna gets back to the idea of lots of screw machine parts (like the original line) rather than ceramics and stuff that needs welding to work.

And there's still the heat buildup with LL use to address I think. I've never used a Pax, but think I follow. If they can 'mainstream' the product without going to cheap labor overseas it'll be historic I think, even if it ends up being made in the lands of cheap labor I think it has great promise.

I agree, the opera is by no means over. I'm not even sure the fat lady is suited up.......

OF