Discontinued ThermoVape Evolution

[Jeppy]

It just seems to me that some kind of disclaimer should be on the TV website so people can make an informed choice. Listing it as merely run by 3.7v is misleading. I asked about that specifically in my email and did not get anything back for a reply on that subject. It seems clear to me that people would make the mistake if there is no info steering them away from thinking, oh, I can just use my ego battery for this, like I did. I am not shaken by the fact that my PT battery is now in the trash, it was going to happen eventually, but a premature death for another person's ego batt might be a big deal if it's all they have to work with. Just seems like the responsible thing to do.

So they are responsible for your failed battery now?

 

[jambandphan03]

That is NOT what I am saying, what I said was they should mention somewhere on the site that those style batteries are not designed to power the EVO properly. Or something to that effect... I have been more than clear that I took my own chances and I am NOT blaming them in any way. I chose to try it out, but if I had known it was going to ruin my battery, I would have thought twice about pushing it. Let's not turn this into something it's not. I am not blaming them, merely expressing my concerns since that is what happened to me and other people who also tried it and ended up with broken batteries.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

'tis true. jam was clear when she originally brought it up and considering it they have been marketing
towards universal use w/ other battery setups they should have warned against some use as they did w/ the persei high voltage setup and their HV Dart and Rev. EGO is probably the most common 510 thread battery style out there. jam only brought up this in that context and because someone else asked if it was safe.

 

[ThermoVape]

So they are responsible for your failed battery now?

We agree with you. We will put up that we cannot make any promises about the direct performance on another manufacturers power supply. We never killed a Ego battery in our testing, so we were not aware that this would be a issue.

I think the culprit to why we did not see this occur is that "Ego Batteries" come from multiple e-cig manufacturers. We tested the original Joye Ego battery, and a few (of the many) knock offs. It is tough because the quality of the Ego battery is dependent on the manufacturers, with some being better then others.

Consider any device that runs a 14500 battery. These units perform reasonable well, more so if IMR chemistry is used for the 14500 cell and that is a comparably sized cell to a Ego in terms of capacity (although some newer Ego variant are much Higher mAh then a 14500 up to 2X). Some of the better e-cig Ego type batteries are using IMR chemistry wrapped cells in there batteries. Those work well. However because all of these Ego type batteries look similar, or are slightly tweaked and rebranded, it is very difficult to figure out what is quality, what is ok, and what is sub-optimal.

We will get working on advising people that we cannot guarantee the performance of the Evolution on all Ego style batteries.

We do our best to build cross-compatible cross platform vaporizers, we can do our best to control the quality of our products, and give data and option on the performance. The imported e-cig industry is tricky and a lot of factories of differing quality are making these products. It is tough to know how the entire spectrum of Ego style batteries will perform.

We appreciate your support, please feel free to contact us if there is anything we can do for you.

Cheers,

ThermoVape

We will

 

[jambandphan03]

Thanks TV for addressing this. I never thought you guys knew this was going to be an issue or would ever mislead us on purpose. The way it seemed to me, we were just finding this out through trial and error by experiencing it first hand. I was bringing it up again, because I have seen a few different posts about people wanting to try it, so other people might avoid making the same mistake. My ego battery was not name branded, and I bought it when the passthrough feature was just coming out to the market, so it was probably not a very powerful or quality battery (maybe 600mah) inside. I appreciate the acknowledgement, and again I don't blame TV for any of my mishaps.

I am not good with regurgitating terminology, but it seems there should be some kind of way to map out the specs required to run the evo-lv properly... I know some 3.7 devices won't push enough juice due to button, or other internal limitations, similar to the issue that the Omicron V2 is having with the cap they are replacing to be able to handle up to 7.4v. Maybe someone who knows all the numbers and terms I can't seem to think of at the moment can chime in, if you follow what I am saying.

Example: the Evo-Lv has a minimum of X amps/volts/oms ect or what ever it is called, that allow it to run at peak performance... therefor the device must be capable of pushing X amps/volts to handle the load... I'm really tired right now, so it's not processing for me at the moment, but maybe you guys get the gist... OF you around?

 

[OF]

Scratch all that, Tim and the guys are on the job.....

Again. Or is that still?

OF

 

[Jeppy]

By jove,,,I think he's got it.......Nice call.

 

[OF]

Maybe someone who knows all the numbers and terms I can't seem to think of at the moment can chime in, if you follow what I am saying.

Example: the Evo-Lv has a minimum of X amps/volts/oms ect or what ever it is called, that allow it to run at peak performance... therefor the device must be capable of pushing X amps/volts to handle the load...

Great thought, but as TV points out most guys don't have any real idea what's in their unit nor how it really performs. Only the maker knows really. And sometimes even the best of them get tripped up, like for instance the V2 with higher current devices?

In the end I think it may come down to an 'approved list' (always a dicey idea), or a set of guidelines, a warning and a prayer? Tough sledding, or we'd probably be home by now.

From my view, a table listing nominal (and min/max where appropriate) ratings is probably best. Guys do need a way to plan.

OF

 

[charliedontsurf]

Thanks for the great responses on this issue JambandPhan, TV and OF. If anyone knows of a good source for an inexpensive IMR chemistry-equipped unit that the Evolution jives with, let us know.

 

[mephisto]

First off, thanks to the folks who have done the first round of "what works, what doesn't."
I am planning on using my Bolt (18650) to try and fire the 3.7 lv. If I toast it, I will let
you know. Seems like it should have the moxie w/ 1200 mah, internal protection......
We shall see.

 

[OF]

First off, thanks to the folks who have done the first round of "what works, what doesn't."
I am planning on using my Bolt (18650) to try and fire the 3.7 lv. If I toast it, I will let
you know. Seems like it should have the moxie w/ 1200 mah, internal protection......
We shall see.

First off, you're of course welcome for any contribution I can make.

That supply looks up to the task. But it's just a switch in a box, there's not really any internal protection except that in the (protected) battery. Remember that, the safety (what there is) is built into the battery not the unit. Put an IMR in it and that's no longer the case.

Anyway, I'd be surprised if that didn't work just fine.

Good luck.

OF

 

[Haywood]

check out these cells

http://www.orbtronic.com/batteries-...8650a-protection-ic-made-in-japan-top-button/

supposedly they blow away any AW IMR 18650. anyone have any experience?
TV...?

The cell you point to is rated at up to 8.5 amps discharge current before the (cell) protection cuts in and kills the power. At 3.6v that means the cell will put out 30 watts before cutout. So as long as the onrush current for whatever heater you're using is less than 30 watts, the panasonic battery you point to should work. The 20 watt EV-LV core may be a suitable choice for that 16850. The T1 core is rated at 30 watts, which may be just too much for this battery (but of course the T1 30 watt core is 6.x volts, which won't work with one 18650, so a LV T1 core would be necessary, and that doesn't currently exist). Note that whether or not a particular 18650 has enough current and/or is recommended is up to ThermoEssence to say, not me...

While doing research for an appropriate fast charging system for the Tenergy RCR123A that come with my T1, I've been doing a bunch of looking at different cells that might be more suitable (than the 123A's) we're using. LiFePO4 is an outstanding choice, but the Tenergy cells really don't have 750mAh (more like 500), and remember that all these mAh values we read about are for .1C discharge rates. At the five amps (10C) we're sucking out of the cells with a T1, their mAh value is MUCH less. The two cell EV draws 3.33 amps (6.6C) and the one cell EV-LV draws the most current of them all, at 5.41 amps (all of which means the mAh ratings being quoted are WAY overvalued for the way we use our batteries).

So far the only alternative battery I've found with significant improvement over Tenergy RCR123As is the 18650 cell. You need to be careful when selecting an appropriate 18650 as the ones with high enough current are usually NOT the ones with the highest capacity, and all of us gravitate to just getting the cell with the highest capacity. (In fact, the panasonic cell you point to may be a real find; it has the highest rated capacity of any 18650 that also allows a high output current. The 18650s that are rated at 10 amps out are usually in the 2100mAh range; the 18650s that are rated at 3100mAh are usually limited to 2 amps out).

Unfortunately, none of the 18650s will fit in the (current) Thermovape carriers, and there is no LV T1 core. A 3100mAh 18650 powering a EV-LV would provide an appreciable improvement over what we have now. Hopefully the hints that TV has left about upcoming stuff will include something that fits an 18650, or a different higher capacity alternative that I haven't thought of.

 

[darkrom]

Come on thermovape give us a clue of whats coming next? I'm tempted to order the evolution full kit to get the LV, but I'm scared to order when I know you will be announcing something soon, and my guess is its a way to increase number of hits, something I definitely want. If I knew what was about to drop I'd have more confidence in ordering or not.

I'm already wondering if there's any reason I should keep my T1 or simply sell it to get one of the newer, more interchangeable models.

 

[kewpcer]

I think it's pretty safe to say that if your unit can't use low resistance cartos then you can't use the Evo.

The reading I've seen was 0.9 ohms, which is way lower than the average ecig carto, which will drive the amperage up beyond what many ecig circuits will handle.

 

[ru_frothi]

We agree with you. We will put up that we cannot make any promises about the direct performance on another manufacturers power supply. We never killed a Ego battery in our testing, so we were not aware that this would be a issue.

I think the culprit to why we did not see this occur is that "Ego Batteries" come from multiple e-cig manufacturers. We tested the original Joye Ego battery, and a few (of the many) knock offs. It is tough because the quality of the Ego battery is dependent on the manufacturers, with some being better then others.

Consider any device that runs a 14500 battery. These units perform reasonable well, more so if IMR chemistry is used for the 14500 cell and that is a comparably sized cell to a Ego in terms of capacity (although some newer Ego variant are much Higher mAh then a 14500 up to 2X). Some of the better e-cig Ego type batteries are using IMR chemistry wrapped cells in there batteries. Those work well. However because all of these Ego type batteries look similar, or are slightly tweaked and rebranded, it is very difficult to figure out what is quality, what is ok, and what is sub-optimal.

We will get working on advising people that we cannot guarantee the performance of the Evolution on all Ego style batteries.

We do our best to build cross-compatible cross platform vaporizers, we can do our best to control the quality of our products, and give data and option on the performance. The imported e-cig industry is tricky and a lot of factories of differing quality are making these products. It is tough to know how the entire spectrum of Ego style batteries will perform.

We appreciate your support, please feel free to contact us if there is anything we can do for you.

Cheers,

ThermoVape

We will

you could at least publish the impedance of the device so the user might realize its gonna to cause massive current draw. or a simple warning to such effect. Its not like you aren't selling the adapters to enable this tinkering so a little fair warning would not hurt.

I'm surprised yall didn't see this issue with other batteries (omi) during testing. I managed to fry an Omicron V1 battery with a Revolution LV in less than 20 minutes the first day I used it.

So 50 hits was specced off a non existent battery combo that we can't buy. What is the proper spec on a battery we can buy from TV.

 

[jambandphan03]

I was really tired last night, I think what I was asking for would be to list minimum power requirements to properly power the Evo-lv. If you buy the TV kit, it's a no-brainer, but so many people want to use what they might already have, which is no good if you don't have the juice to back it up. It's all a learning experience as far as I'm concerned.

 

[JoeKickass]

I was really tired last night, I think what I was asking for would be to list minimum power requirements to properly power the Evo-lv. If you buy the TV kit, it's a no-brainer, but so many people want to use what they might already have, which is no good if you don't have the juice to back it up. It's all a learning experience as far as I'm concerned.

It comes down to a minimum of 5.5 amps at a nominal 3.7 volts (20 watts max output at 4.2 volts)

The problem is the ecig batteries don't tell you how many amps or watts they can safely put out, and you need a voltmeter to measure it yourself. So knowing the requirements doesn't really help too much unfortunately...

 

[OF]

I was really tired last night, I think what I was asking for would be to list minimum power requirements to properly power the Evo-lv. If you buy the TV kit, it's a no-brainer, but so many people want to use what they might already have, which is no good if you don't have the juice to back it up. It's all a learning experience as far as I'm concerned.

I agree, but it's not my call. My unofficial number for the LV Evolution is out there several times. 20 Watts (the published power) divided by 3.7 (the nominal of the battery) gives us 5.4 Amps. I'd add at least a 10% safety margin to that, 6.0 as a minimum official spec? The rub is, that bit of information is not so useful. What happens when for instance you ask Atmos if the RAW or RX is up to it? The nearest guy who might know is 8 time zones away and has never seen the LV. You're talking to a salesman.....

I understand what is driving all this, I've gone out and bought other supplies to play with knowing that some would cut it and some wouldn't. Most involve some risks and a lot of that relates to the individual. I've tried my Dart on the Omicron supply without wrecking it, others it seems have also tried it and killed the Omicron? These things can burn up as well as blow up. We joke about how hot they get, but hot is death if you're made of silicone and work as a semiconductor.

Not an easy call, or I guess it'd already be done?

OF

 

[Dogman]

you could at least publish the impedance of the device so the user might realize its gonna to cause massive current draw. or a simple warning to such effect. Its not like you aren't selling the adapters to enable this tinkering so a little fair warning would not hurt.

I'm surprised yall didn't see this issue with other batteries (omi) during testing. I managed to fry an Omicron V1 battery with a Revolution LV in less than 20 minutes the first day I used it.

So 50 hits was specced off a non existent battery combo that we can't buy. What is the proper spec on a battery we can buy from TV.

Why would they go to the trouble to test the hundreds if not thousands of batteries on the market? They are a design team working to make a pleasurable vaporizer for the masses. If you do not understand the limitations of the devices you are trying to use, do not buy or experiment with them.

Thermovape posted on the very first post that the Evo drew 20 watts of power, 1/3 less than the TV1. If you want to experiment (which I have) with different companies batteries to power the Evo, then you have no one to blame but yourself for the wasted batteries. They sell complete kits that are matched to the Evo that would save time and money in destroyed batteries.

If you do not want to purchase the proper tools to make the Evo work, you shouldn't blame Thermovape. They have the proper tools to make the Evo work perfectly,, some just do not want to spend the money to buy the proper tools.

I fucked up when I ordered my Evo, thinking I could get it to work with my ecig mod, and destroyed a battery trying to make it work. I did not bitch about it to Thermovape because it was not their decision or responsibility for the wasted battery.

So I spent 30 bucks and ordered the interface adapter to fit my TV1, which I can use to power the Evo and my Clearomizer ecig vaporizer. I will receive it tomorrow, and have pretty much the perfect vaping system.

I do not mean to come off as an asshole, only to try to make others understand that personal responsibility has to come into play at some point.

 

[bazzles]

So would the Evo LV run fine with the v2 Omi? or will it kill that one? I was thinking of getting the Evo LV while I waited for the Universe and since I would have to get the v2 Omi for the Universe it made me wonder if it would run the Evo LV also. I imagine the 7.4 Omi v2 upgrade should be able to run the Evo right?(I understand this answer is speculative).

I'm thinking I'll just get the Evo LV kit so I don't have to worry about destroying anything but I was just wondering hah.

 

[JoeKickass]

I imagine the 7.4 Omi v2 upgrade should be able to run the Evo right?

Actually the 7.4v v2 top is the only one that can run the evolution period. The v2 top right now can't put out enough currrent at 3.7v but the new top will. You don't want to run a stantard 6v evo at 7.4v so I would get the lv evo when you get the upgraded v2 top and just run it off of a single 3.7v 14650.

 

[jambandphan03]

Why would they go to the trouble to test the hundreds if not thousands of batteries on the market? They are a design team working to make a pleasurable vaporizer for the masses. If you do not understand the limitations of the devices you are trying to use, do not buy or experiment with them.

Thermovape posted on the very first post that the Evo drew 20 watts of power, 1/3 less than the TV1. If you want to experiment (which I have) with different companies batteries to power the Evo, then you have no one to blame but yourself for the wasted batteries. They sell complete kits that are matched to the Evo that would save time and money in destroyed batteries.

If you do not want to purchase the proper tools to make the Evo work, you shouldn't blame Thermovape. They have the proper tools to make the Evo work perfectly,, some just do not want to spend the money to buy the proper tools.

I fucked up when I ordered my Evo, thinking I could get it to work with my ecig mod, and destroyed a battery trying to make it work. I did not bitch about it to Thermovape because it was not their decision or responsibility for the wasted battery.

So I spent 30 bucks and ordered the interface adapter to fit my TV1, which I can use to power the Evo and my Clearomizer ecig vaporizer. I will receive it tomorrow, and have pretty much the perfect vaping system.

I do not mean to come off as an asshole, only to try to make others understand that personal responsibility has to come into play at some point.

I understand your point, but why are we stuck on the "blame" issue that doesn't exist?? Nobody is blaming TV for anything. We are here discussing the issues that came up with said experimentation, and again nobody (as far as memory serves) has once held TV responsible. The only thing I felt needed to be addressed was putting up some kind of warning on the website, which was not there, when I checked yesterday. I do have a kit on the way, so I can do this proper. Some how the point that nobody is blaming TV keeps being missed here...

 

[Jeppy]

I do not mean to come off as an asshole, only to try to make others understand that personal responsibility has to come into play at some point.

Dog,,,there is always going to be a 'few' who want a deeper pocket to pay for their mistakes. I think it dates back to the ol 'mom and dad' will bail me out mentality?

 

[ru_frothi]

So would the Evo LV run fine with the v2 Omi? or will it kill that one? I was thinking of getting the Evo LV while I waited for the Universe and since I would have to get the v2 Omi for the Universe it made me wonder if it would run the Evo LV also. I imagine the 7.4 Omi v2 upgrade should be able to run the Evo right?(I understand this answer is speculative).

I'm thinking I'll just get the Evo LV kit so I don't have to worry about destroying anything but I was just wondering hah.

My Revo LV does not work at all with my V2 omi. I get no heat. its like the adapter is not making contact.

and to dogman. no one ever asked them to test all batteries. I asked them to publish an impedence measurement so the user can make an intelligent and educated decision and take responsibility for their actions. Its really quite simple.

I take full responsibility for frying the omi battery. never said otherwise. you're getting me confused with someone else.

 

[ru_frothi]

I understand your point, but why are we stuck on the "blame" issue that doesn't exist?? Nobody is blaming TV for anything. We are here discussing the issues that came up with said experimentation, and again nobody (as far as memory serves) has once held TV responsible. The only thing I felt needed to be addressed was putting up some kind of warning on the website, which was not there, when I checked yesterday. I do have a kit on the way, so I can do this proper. Some how the point that nobody is blaming TV keeps being missed here...

Exactly. Dogman missed the point.