Discontinued Thermovape Cera

[OF]

I'm sorry but I thought the original latching switch would automatically pulse the Cera on an off, to prevent overheating.

Or this is at least what OF and TV first said.

Sorry, sir, you're definitely misquoting me. I very rarely use the term (because so many misuse it). While it's true you can use on/off cycles to control the heat this is a manual process, not automatic.....

I'm more of a 'turn it on and let it run' kinda guy because I think that's what the new users are going to be best at. My initial reports on Beta testing reflect that (five minute full on sessions and the like).

I'm sorry if you somehow picked up that impression, but it's false. More over, the momentary button now being shipped it much more practical for "duty cycle regulation" since it needs half the operations to do the same job.

If lack of automatic temperature control is keeping you from putting your money down, IMO it's time to reconsider.....

OF

 

[Rocco]

Since were sort of back on the topic of switches, I had alight bulb go off in my head that may actually prove very fruitful . I recently had one of my guitar pedals go out on me and need to get it refurbished including some switches on it. Theres a company by the name of Walrus Audio here in Oklahoma that im going to and I will inquire to them about some latching switch possibilities as they custom make guitar/bass/ or any other instrument pedals. So it wouldn't be too much to imagine that they have a good supply and or resources for acquiring switches of the likes that may fit the Cera? Ill keep you guys updated once I get more info, no answer when I called so I left a message and now the wait begins

 

[OF]

Theres a company by the name of Walrus Audio here in Oklahoma that im going to and I will inquire to them about some latching switch possibilities as they custom make guitar/bass/ or any other instrument pedals. So it wouldn't be too much to imagine that they have a good supply and or resources for acquiring switches of the likes that may fit the Cera?

Sounds like a great call to me, who cares where the best answer comes from.

A couple of things to watch out for, first we need an abnormally high current (4 Amps at an absolute minimum, a bit more would be better) and (just as important and hard to find) that has to be a DC rating. Typically switches have much higher current capacities with AC (strange as that seems), high current DC ones are pretty uncommon.

FWIW the auto industry is a possible here.....maybe a custom car place???

Otherwise the switch has to also be the (more or less standard) 19mm size if we want to use the same end cap.

Good luck with it.

OF

 

[Rocco]

Thanks alot for the advice and giving your take on the subject OF. You've nearly always got the answers we seek for and if not you point us in the right direction. I Imagine this thread would most definitley be dull to say the least without your well rounded skills and knowledge to aid in our stoner cloud dreams coming true!

 

[hooperbell]

Sorry, sir, you're definitely misquoting me. I very rarely use the term (because so many misuse it). While it's true you can use on/off cycles to control the heat this is a manual process, not automatic.....

I'm more of a 'turn it on and let it run' kinda guy because I think that's what the new users are going to be best at. My initial reports on Beta testing reflect that (five minute full on sessions and the like).

I'm sorry if you somehow picked up that impression, but it's false. More over, the momentary button now being shipped it much more practical for "duty cycle regulation" since it needs half the operations to do the same job.

If lack of automatic temperature control is keeping you from putting your money down, IMO it's time to reconsider.....

OF

I'm sorry if my question confused you. I understand that 'pulsing' was a manual process with the toggle switch that has now been taken out of the design. What I'm referring to is something completely different. If I'm not mistaken I remember a few months ago either you or TV mentioned that there would be no worries about overheating because the device would have some sort of mechanized switch that pulsed the Cera's core on and off (automatically).

 

[nopartofme]

And wow, thanks very much for the kind words. Makes a guy blush. I just got lucky, with lifetime skills and experience that relates, being freshly retired, having TV be so close (25 miles) and of course huge interest. The real key is of course 'the TV guys'. They are the ones with the hot ideas and dedication. And they're the ones that were open and honest.

Not to mention without FC and IMO more importantly timely Moderation by Pak the venue would have evaporated away leaving the information to wilt. IMO the Mods are the unsung heroes here, keeping the BS out so the useful information can flow. Without them, literally, we wouldn't be having this exchange at all. We are truly blessed at many levels for sure.

Well said, for sure the moderation here is the real key to what makes this place feel so much more productive than anywhere else I've found around. And of course, where would we be without the great engineers bringing exciting technology for us all to bubble over? The Cera feels like a glowing rod of stabilized, structural ingenuity in my hand. Often hard to look away from… Anyways, don't sell that lifetime experience of yours short, it's a rare and valuable commodity to be sure! We're all richer here for it.

Back to the fun at hand. I've been having a lots of it exploring what Cera can do. One thing that keeps amazing me is how cool and pleasant the vapor is. The ceramic 'UFO' does an astounding job! As I'm sitting here getting a feel for the working process of the thing, doing test puffs to try and get a feel for how much vapor I'm getting, I'll sometimes think that I haven't gotten the best pulls… Until ten minutes roll by and I find myself very pleasantly medicated.

By the way, the black plastic cap that someone was using to replace the switch also fits around the switch itself. You can use it as a stand, giving it a wider base to sit on while you load it up.

 

[OF]

I'm sorry if my question confused you. I understand that 'pulsing' was a manual process with the toggle switch that has now been taken out of the design. What I'm referring to is something completely different. If I'm not mistaken I remember a few months ago either you or TV mentioned that there would be no worries about overheating because the device would have some sort of mechanized switch that pulsed the Cera's core on and off (automatically).

Nope sorry. Drawing a direct blank on that one, and it's the very sort of information that catches my eye.....

Perhaps you're talking about the collapsible spring in the tail cap? In the event of a catastrophic failure (say a shorted core) excess heat in the spring will cause it to collapse and break the circuit? Yes, that's automatic, but it has to do with circuit overload not load temperature and it's a one shot deal.....like a blown fuse it's useless after until repaired....

Thanks alot for the advice and giving your take on the subject OF. You've nearly always got the answers we seek for and if not you point us in the right direction.

You're very welcome, I'm very happy to steer good folks along if I can, vaporizing is so much better than blazing it almost demands support if you can. After it saves people money and makes 'em smell better it also makes them live longer....pretty cool combination for sure.

But again, I'm just the front man here. Without TV's support we'd be guessing and waiting. Now, of course we're waiting and guessing. Much better, that.

Best wishes for a good weekend. I've just finished making a loading tool to help load the hard concentrates by preheating the core interior. After the epoxy sets and I retest it I'll be looking for a heavy user with hard concentrates to volunteer to test it for me......as luck would have it I think I know who that might be.....

This Cera stuff is cool and thanks to 'aftermarket input' I think it's gonna get better and better.

OF

 

[chevelle970]

Does anyone have some insider info on the part number for the momentary switch that's in the cera. I've got an idea on a side on/off momentary switch, just need to to find a similar latching switch for the bottom.

 

[hooperbell]

OF I'm a little curious as to why you dropped your strong stance on the latching switch a little while back. I completely agree with everything you say here but I just don't understand why this has become a non-issue for you know?

Here's my guess on the matter, and it's just a guess. First off, changes have been asked for. Most of the changes seem to be driven from specific requests.

Recreational users probably have little use for two switches. However many Medical users (the customer base TV has said they're really looking to support....) have issues with switches. Many of us are chronically troubled by even simple hand actions, some of us have it 'come and go' with changes in health.

There are lots of posts on TV threads to that effect. What works well and is 'right' for most customers is difficult to impossible to some....sadly some of those who really need it the most.

I suggest that such things are to give them useful choices too? For all I know the lawyers may have had something to do with it too? Might explain the 'safety' part.....

OF

Also I guess Pak's old-age experience was right in regards to the late beta test meaning a late product release...

It's impossible to complete a meaningful beta test before they say they'll be shipping the Cera. Beta testing for the Cera should have been finished by now. If OF is to be a beta tester and he doesn't have one already, I think I know who the beta testers will be.

Sorry, Pak, unless you know something I don't I can't agree with that take. Beta test was never planned to be all that long in calendar days....The idea is to get a number of units into different tester's hands.... Anyway, I'd normally expect a week or two to find a fatal error in mine, but not much more than that. But I'm not worried about the timeline, maker or product.

 

[OF]

Does anyone have some insider info on the part number for the momentary switch that's in the cera. I've got an idea on a side on/off momentary switch, just need to to find a similar latching switch for the bottom.

I would hope anyone with "insider information" would honor their NDA, for sure if I had such info I would.

What I believe happened is the original Beta switches (of which I have one) were a few samples of what's basically a semi custom switch needing special parts from overseas (France? Germany?) that put a serious crimp in delivery. For all I know this one might be short lived like the first momentary ones turned out to be (that was of course part of the Beta Test). I'm not using it much these days since there's no compelling need and I'm testing my own version when not using the momentary.

The specs needed are simple to relate, but not at all easy to find. Even if you remove the 'Made in USA' filter TV uses. To fit the existing tail cap it has to fit the standard 19mm thread hole. For instance, from the 2000 or so push button switches Digikey sells these will fit mechanically:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?FV=fff40011,fff80061,108078a,c3c013a&k=push button switch&vendor=0&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ptm=0&fid=0&quantity=0&PV545=56

Notice, however, none of them carries enough DC current nor are any latching.

OF I'm a little curious as to why you dropped your strong stance on the latching switch a little while back. I completely agree with everything you say here but I just don't understand why this has become a non-issue for you know?

Also I guess Pak's old-age experience was right in regards to the late beta test meaning a late product release...

Well I guess two things happened, fairly close together IIRC. First two guys I loaned the Beta unit used the latching switch to have total of 3 accidents (over maybe 10 or 12 days use?). Dumping the full load of oil all over the joint was never a design goal I was aware of. Beta testing often finds such problems, sometimes right off, sometimes it take a little while. It makes sense with LL but is kinda dangerous as is for oil and there's no way to interlock it to prevent that (at least that I can see). Secondly, TV announced their plan to put the project on hold, that is they no longer planned to ship one.

To me that ended one phase of it. It's in end user hands now. Several folks, myself included, are looking at options that solve issues without creating others.

As to Pak's guess about timing, believe what you want. But, since I was there when the Beta test schedule was laid out don't waste your time trying to change my mind about the original timing would be my advice. From the start Beta testing was to be short and intense.....they had this strange feeling folks wouldn't want to wait any longer than necessary to get one. Who'da guessed. Believe it or not it really did play out like it was related to you here, the problems and delays were real and generally for the reasons most accept. IMO nothing really out of the ordinary, in fact way way way better than say the Cloud or various D9 projects are going? Just my opinion, of course, we all get 'em you know.

OF

 

[chevelle970]

I would hope anyone with "insider information" would honor their NDA, for sure if I had such info I would.

What I believe happened is the original Beta switches (of which I have one) were a few samples of what's basically a semi custom switch needing special parts from overseas (France? Germany?) that put a serious crimp in delivery. For all I know this one might be short lived like the first momentary ones turned out to be (that was of course part of the Beta Test). I'm not using it much these days since there's no compelling need and I'm testing my own version when not using the momentary.

The specs needed are simple to relate, but not at all easy to find. Even if you remove the 'Made in USA' filter TV uses. To fit the existing tail cap it has to fit the standard 19mm thread hole. For instance, from the 2000 or so push button switches Digikey sells these will fit mechanically:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?FV=fff40011,fff80061,108078a,c3c013a&k=push button switch&vendor=0&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ptm=0&fid=0&quantity=0&PV545=56

Notice, however, none of them carries enough DC current nor are any latching.

OF

I was think of building a lacthing switch for the bottom using this: http://www.sourcingmap.com/19mm-hole-latching-metal-flat-push-button-switch-pin-p-230956.html. I'd make it the same way that TET hopefully would so that it all screws into the end cap, but I'd make the spring shorter. The small spring would alow a gap between the bottom of the cart an the top of the battery to allow for this http://extra-parts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_45&products_id=423 to be mounted in the safety pin hole on the side of the cera. The contacts from the side switch would push against the botton of the cart and the top of the battery, thus completing the circuit. I would much prefer to use this method than to have to cradle my cera and work the bottm switch with my finger. If I were to trip and fall while using it, the cera would end up in the back of my throat. Thoughts?

 

[Pipes]

I was think of building a lacthing switch for the bottom using this: http://www.sourcingmap.com/19mm-hole-latching-metal-flat-push-button-switch-pin-p-230956.html. I'd make it the same way that TET hopefully would so that it all screws into the end cap, but I'd make the spring shorter. The small spring would alow a gap between the bottom of the cart an the top of the battery to allow for this http://extra-parts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_45&products_id=423 to be mounted in the safety pin hole on the side of the cera. The contacts from the side switch would push against the botton of the cart and the top of the battery, thus completing the circuit. I would much prefer to use this method than to have to cradle my cera and work the bottm switch with my finger. If I were to trip and fall while using it, the cera would end up in the back of my throat. Thoughts?

Nice find on those switches.
You'll likely need to use a "skirt" on the latching switch to cover a few threads to get the proper depth.
The specs sure look good.
EDIT, spec is AC rating. But still a good possibility.

EDIT2, AC/DC ratings explained much more in depth below by OF......much, much more in depth

 

[OF]

I was think of building a lacthing switch for the bottom using this: http://www.sourcingmap.com/19mm-hole-latching-metal-flat-push-button-switch-pin-p-230956.html. I'd make it the same way that TET hopefully would so that it all screws into the end cap, but I'd make the spring shorter. The small spring would alow a gap between the bottom of the cart an the top of the battery to allow for this http://extra-parts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_45&products_id=423 to be mounted in the safety pin hole on the side of the cera. The contacts from the side switch would push against the botton of the cart and the top of the battery, thus completing the circuit. Thoughts?

You're welcome to try both, but don't hold your breath. Neither is DC rated for openers. If you check into switches like this very low DC ratings (typically .05 Amps) is the norm even when there are very much larger AC ratings.

Here's the short version. Generally switch contacts get into trouble stopping the current (not starting it like you'd think), you're car's points fire on opening, right? As the contacts start to spread sparks want to jump the gap. This causes lots of power to develop and can pit and burn the surfaces if it's not "quenched" quickly. In AC use this is automatic since the current stops and reverses 120 times a second, not so with DC. Just like in the car, you can 'burn the points'. Different shape is used to optimize performance with DC over AC sometimes. In practical switches you need to first consider how will that opening be controlled for high DC currents. It has to come from stored energy in a spring almost always (which is why the original PB was so stiff. The same momentary switch I'm using for tests has a 10 Amp rating for the NC (Normally closed) version since the human will be pushing it open. The NC version, where a spring has to do it is only rated at 4 Amps.

The seconds switch you cite I know. I fought them for years. Cheap POS, barely work with AC and a fair bit of current, definitely in over it's tiny little plastic head here. The two lugs terminate inside where a disk is pressed down. It's all silver plated inside for good initial contact but that will quickly oxidize you'll find. It's easy to spot the failed ones in this sort of application though, the back end melts.

You're welcome to try what you want, but I'll repeat my advice: Look for at least four Amps DC.

The specs sure look good.

We talking about the same switches here, boss?

OF

 

[hooperbell]

I suggest that such things are to give them useful choices too? For all I know the lawyers may have had something to do with it too? Might explain the 'safety' part.....

OF

So there lawyers told them to make a latching switch for individuals who couldn't push a button and then told them to cut the latching switch out once the device was overheating. Must be some busy lawyers.

A busy Lawyer is a Happy Lawyer

-Bell

 

[J.D.420]

While we're on the subject of mods, can the cera be run in reverse polarity?

 

[hooperbell]

While we're on the subject of mods, can the cera be run in reverse polarity?

Let me rephrase this: Will my Cera work in alternate Galaxies?

 

[chevelle970]

I cant seem to find a 5A DC 19mm planel mount switch. Atleast I couldn't find one and I've been searching the entire night. Back on page 49, Tim stated "For those of you who want to tinker on your Cera, the switch is a 19mm Panel mount, minimum 2Amp @ 36V, and no longer than 27MM." There was no mention of it being AC or DC. I would think the application woud call for a DC switch, but is it possible that TET went with an AC switch? If you can, just tell me where those switches come from to help narrow my search.

 

[OF]

So there lawyers told them to make a latching switch for individuals who couldn't push a button and then told them to cut the latching switch out once the device was overheating.

A busy Lawyer is a Happy Lawyer

I doubt the first part of that, IMO we asked for it from the T1 days? I think the conjecture on advice to drop it once the downside was known is pretty reasonable though. Classic Lawyer stuff, IMO. the details no doubt buried in all that 'Lawyer/Client Privilege' stuff.

As to what make Lawyers happy I'm not sure......but some of the possibilities scare me.

While we're on the subject of mods, can the cera be run in reverse polarity?

Yup, sure can.

In fact all the TV supplies I know are 'bipolar', except the Beta version Cera. The original sliding switch idea needed button tops to work, the battery had to go in plus first.

I cant seem to find a 5A DC 19mm planel mount switch. Atleast I couldn't find one and I've been searching the entire night. Back on page 49, Tim stated "For those of you who want to tinker on your Cera, the switch is a 19mm Panel mount, minimum 2Amp @ 36V, and no longer than 27MM." There was no mention of it being AC or DC. I would think the application woud call for a DC switch, but is it possible that TET went with an AC switch? If you can, just tell me where those switches come from to help narrow my search.

Don't feel too bad, I don't think anyone else has, either. For sure not a common part nor a common switch job (which fits somehow).

It most definitely is a DC system, Tim knows that and probably figured everyone else does? If you check Tim later revised that 2 Amps up to the actual four. Actually is close onto five worst case (low resistance system, fresh battery).

I assume the "if you can" has me as the "you"? Sorry, no I can't. I honestly don't know the switch brand/vendor......and if I did I wouldn't be allowed to tell any more than sources for the other components (heater wire, ceramics and so on). Preparatory information and all that NDA stuff. In a funny way, it's often what gives such companies value to investors. Their "Intellectual Property" as t hey call it. There's no marks on the switch I've seen to tell me and I (intentionally) haven't asked. One of those 'not my business' things I guess. I strongly suspect they went to an identified US maker of switches and asked 'can you make me....'. A NDA no doubt prevents whoever that is from confirming that. You and I could ask the same question of 'all the guys in the book' but since we'd be looking for a few not XX a month we'll get a different answer.

There are other 'off the shelf' switches out there that electrically are up to the job, they just need to be mounted differently.

For such a simple thing, it's a tough nut to crack for sure. Even without the 'Made in USA' restriction.

OF

 

[chevelle970]

Sorry for beating you up about it so much. I just wish it wasn't such a pain to find and off the shelf version that would mount up without issue. One day I'll find it.....

 

[OF]

Sorry for beating you up about it so much. I just wish it wasn't such a pain to find and off the shelf version that would mount up without issue. One day I'll find it.....

No problem, very understandable and common. I know you're not alone in wishing Radio Shack had it. I hope you do find one......and tell us where to get ours.....

Sooner or later even better options will come up.

Good luck with it.

OF

 

[SpiralVape]

What about using the original sliding metal bar conductor... only place a spring on one side so that it becomes momentary? It seems like this may be the simplest way to get the momentary thumb switch. The end where the spring resides would need a wider cap to hold the spring in. The main issue I can see with this is the friction of the sliding bar on the head of the battery.

 

[Tweek]

What about using the original sliding metal bar conductor... only place a spring on one side so that it becomes momentary? It seems like this may be the simplest way to get the momentary thumb switch. The end where the spring resides would need a wider cap to hold the spring in. The main issue I can see with this is the friction of the sliding bar on the head of the battery.

My knowledge is limited compared to guys like OF & Pipes, but I know when I attempted this kind of mod, not only did the battery get beat up, but I experienced some heat surges in my oil core. Bottom switch still tops in my books.

 

[SpiralVape]

I haven't had much success with the VG cart on the cera. Can't seem to get much vapor at all. It's difficult for me to tell how much liquid to put in. Too little liquid, little vapor and dry hits. Too much, not much vapor and when I take the cap off there is liquid all over the cap. The cera seems to be a juice spitter. The cap is impressive at how it doesn't let anything through. Although a bit awkward for getting the mouth around it. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the VG cart I have? Any tips out there?

I wouldn't take the cera out in public as it's definitely a two handed device. If a momentary thumb switch can be found, it may be more public friendly. And with holding it in two hands I expect a great deal of pure vapor. Speaking about the Vegetable Glycerin cart for ecig use and not the LL or EO.

When I compare it to the T1 ecig (UltraMax) with AVA atomizer, it's not an improvement in the design for vapor production & ease of use. Hopefully it's just me and someone can enlighten me.

 

[OF]

The main issue I can see with this is the friction of the sliding bar on the head of the battery.

Actually the main issue is probably fit. Batteries and carts just don't interchange without hand fitting and fiddling. Battery tension is critical. This alone disqualifies the original design for mass production IMO. It's just not reliable.

OF

 

[SpiralVape]

Actually the main issue is probably fit. Batteries and carts just don't interchange without hand fitting and fiddling. Battery tension is critical. This alone disqualifies the original design for mass production IMO. It's just not reliable.

OF

Just to make sure we are on the same page, which I believe we are.

The original sliding switch on the Cera... had a conductive end and non-conductive end to toggle turning the Cera on. The idea is to put a small spring around one end of that switch. You slide the switch and when you let go, the spring brings the switch back to off.

Maybe what is needed is a small metal tube that the sliding switch slides through. That way the switch isn't sliding against the battery.