Discontinued Thermovape Cera

[ogcook]

Orbitronic 3100 they are a little long for the tenergry charger so I can tell you I probably need a different charger for them .

Mine just got here, ordered 2900mAH, got 3400mAH.... I see Panasonic actually makes a 3400mAH cell so hopefully it's a free upgrade instead of just mislabeling.
Barely could get it to fit in my Trustfire charger, one it came with fits alright.
Does it fit in the Cera fine though? I can't see why it wouldn't since it's supposed to be a spring in it this time unlike the T1.

 

[OF]

Quick q about the LQ cart, I ordered mine with intentions of using it mainly for e-juice, I was wondering how it would do with an occasional eo(not PG) ran through it? Would the different pore size affect how well it works very much(in comparison to the EO cart)?

I asked Tim that exact question when he suggested it to me. He gave me that knowing grin of his, told be it still works amazingly well for even thick oils and not to worry. I pass that advice along to you, minus his grin.

The feeling I get is it's more a matter of juice working better than oils in their 'special cart' than the other way around. One thing sure, if you cut vapor production back 10 or 20% you'll be able to fool me real easy. The oil cart needs throttling back to avoid serious bodily harm pretty fast now, slowing that down a mite wouldn't bother me a bit.

Given the EL cart is now more powerful than EO, oil might even produce even more vapor with the (new power) EL cart? I say, 'go for it!'.

Mine just got here, ordered 2900mAH, got 3400mAH.... I see Panasonic actually makes a 3400mAH cell so hopefully it's a free upgrade instead of just mislabeling.
Barely could get it to fit in my Trustfire charger, one it came with fits alright.
Does it fit in the Cera fine though? I can't see why it wouldn't since it's supposed to be a spring in it this time unlike the T1.

No, sorry, that is not a given. In fact just the opposite. Form the start 'everyone' has been very careful to say there can easily be 18650s that don't fit, it's not a well controlled standard. The warning is in the Cera thread several times. This (not fitting) is a common feature of a LOT of vapes that use this battery size in theory. IIRC there's already a report of one too big in diameter. The fact that it doesn't fit into a 'standard 18650 charger' could be a clue.

And once again, bigger mAh numbers don't mean better. Just because it fits doesn't mean it works. We've seen lots of examples where this is not the case. Guys that decide to pick 'better/cheaper' batteries off the web are on their own IMO. The safe advice is to use the recommended battery from TV. It's been well tested for the application. Next safest is use one someone you trust has tested and found good. Least sure to work is ordering a pile of what you decide is a better battery based on ???

OF

 

[Haywood]

It's so nice to see things getting back to normal.

Hi Tim, welcome back. Say hi to Zeki for me.

I have a question.

Are these the (current, shipping) values for the three Cera cores:

Leaf - 16W
Oil - 14W
Juice - 10W

(and can I assume that's at 3.7v)?

I'd say on average the cores will be:

LL - 16W
EO - 14W
LQ - 16W

Cheers,
Tim

I guess I'm confused. The juice core will use more power than the oil core (the same as the leaf core)? I thought that e-juice vaporized more easily than EO. And again, are you figuring wattage based on 3.7v? Or if it's easier, what resistance are the three cores each going to average? At 3.7v the 16W cores work out to 0.86Ω and the 14W cores work out to 0.98Ω. (A 10W core would work out to 1.37Ω @ 3.7v).

OF: Feel free to correct my math; I don't think I've ever gotten it exactly right the first time in even one of my messages here.

 

[Snart420]

Mine just got here, ordered 2900mAH, got 3400mAH.... I see Panasonic actually makes a 3400mAH cell so hopefully it's a free upgrade instead of just mislabeling.
Barely could get it to fit in my Trustfire charger, one it came with fits alright.
Does it fit in the Cera fine though? I can't see why it wouldn't since it's supposed to be a spring in it this time unlike the T1.

Yes mine fit in the cera fine .

 

[OF]

I guess I'm confused. The juice core will use more power than the oil core (the same as the leaf core)? I thought that e-juice vaporized more easily than EO. And again, are you figuring wattage based on 3.7v? Or if it's easier, what resistance are the three cores each going to average? At 3.7v the 16W cores work out to 0.86Ω and the 14W cores work out to 0.98Ω. (A 10W core would work out to 1.37Ω @ 3.7v).

OF: Feel free to correct my math; I don't think I've ever gotten it exactly right the first time in even one of my messages here.

Yup, that's my read as well. Then again, they're used differently really. Juice people fire it up and get a quick hit and shut down (they even put time limits on their gear to lock out 8 or 10 second hits). They want lots, fast, but not for long. You don't find latching switches on e-cigs. We want it all, vapor clouds thick enough to use for smoke screens, and we want to run more than 8 seconds doing it. Different market I think?

FWIW I think your numbers are fine. The fun part is they don't really know (or care) there. They make them mechanically (XX turns of a specific wire on a given core size). They then screen to see if the total current is within bounds under some controlled (voltage/battery) conditions. It doesn't really show up as Ohms or Watts until they have to describe it to us. Funny how that works, but it's really pretty common.

OF

 

[havealight101]

I asked Tim that exact question when he suggested it to me. He gave me that knowing grin of his, told be it still works amazingly well for even thick oils and not to worry. I pass that advice along to you, minus his grin.

The feeling I get is it's more a matter of juice working better than oils in their 'special cart' than the other way around. One thing sure, if you cut vapor production back 10 or 20% you'll be able to fool me real easy. The oil cart needs throttling back to avoid serious bodily harm pretty fast now, slowing that down a mite wouldn't bother me a bit.

Given the EL cart is now more powerful than EO, oil might even produce even more vapor with the (new power) EL cart? I say, 'go for it!'.

OF

Good stuff, thank you!

 

[PB88123]

I guess I'm confused. The juice core will use more power than the oil core (the same as the leaf core)? I thought that e-juice vaporized more easily than EO.

E-juice vaporizes at a lower temp. With the higher watt it means as soon as you turn on the power it will be ready to hit. With a lower watt it may take a couple seconds for it to reach temp.

 

[Haywood]

I asked Tim that exact question when he suggested it to me. He gave me that knowing grin of his, told be it still works amazingly well for even thick oils and not to worry. I pass that advice along to you, minus his grin.

The feeling I get is it's more a matter of juice working better than oils in their 'special cart' than the other way around. One thing sure, if you cut vapor production back 10 or 20% you'll be able to fool me real easy. The oil cart needs throttling back to avoid serious bodily harm pretty fast now, slowing that down a mite wouldn't bother me a bit.

Given the EL cart is now more powerful than EO, oil might even produce even more vapor with the (new power) EL cart? I say, 'go for it!'.

OF

I think I'm gonna have Tim and the gang wind me a 1.4Ω Ti oil core when things settle down at TET. If I feed it 3.75v it'll draw 10W and if I feed it 4.75v it'll draw 15W. 4.25v (right in the middle) may turn out to be the sweet spot (12.9W).

And all this discussion about the power used in the oil cart and the juice cart leads me to another question. Is there any difference between the oil cart and the juice cart except for the resistance of the core? I heard conflicting reports about differences in the porousness of the ceramic in the AVA core versus the DART/Revo core, from people who should know, but I never pursued it further.

 

[OF]

Good stuff, thank you!

You're very welcome, soon you'll have the 'Northern most Cera known' I'm thinking? Maybe some Aussie can claim the 'down under' title?

E-juice vaporizes at a lower temp. With the higher watt it means as soon as you turn on the power it will be ready to hit. With a lower watt it may take a couple seconds for it to reach temp.

I think that's exactly the idea. Not only will it be faster to vapor for them, but the volume of vapor will be all the higher for even shorter hit times. Lots of those Nicotine freaks are in a big old hurry you know, not laid back like us hash oil guys.....

I think I'm gonna have Tim and the gang wind me a 1.4Ω Ti oil core when things settle down at TET. If I feed it 3.75v it'll draw 10W and if I feed it 4.75v it'll draw 15W. 4.25v (right in the middle) may turn out to be the sweet spot (12.9W).

And all this discussion about the power used in the oil cart and the juice cart leads me to another question. Is there any difference between the oil cart and the juice cart except for the resistance of the core? I heard conflicting reports about differences in the porousness of the ceramic in the AVA core versus the DART/Revo core, from people who should know, but I never pursued it further.

Funny I had exactly the same idea. I'm getting an extra 'PG only' cart, I may well ask to have it's power cut back some later on. I think a higher resistance cart might be just the ticket for VV heads once there's adapters out as well. Time will tell. Exciting stuff.

As far as pore size, that's my understanding as well, part of the 'tuning' done. I also understand the difference is pretty small, really, in practical terms. FWIW.

OF

 

[SameOldTim]

well guys....

looks like....

um...

can you guess what just arrived?

Hehehehe

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

lookin' clean

ps open a shop in san diego so i can work for you guys Ultra + AVA has been the only ecig I've touched since I got it. Only two or three people can use it, and only when I'm present

 

[ogcook]

No, sorry, that is not a given. In fact just the opposite. Form the start 'everyone' has been very careful to say there can easily be 18650s that don't fit, it's not a well controlled standard. The warning is in the Cera thread several times. This (not fitting) is a common feature of a LOT of vapes that use this battery size in theory. IIRC there's already a report of one too big in diameter. The fact that it doesn't fit into a 'standard 18650 charger' could be a clue.

And once again, bigger mAh numbers don't mean better. Just because it fits doesn't mean it works. We've seen lots of examples where this is not the case. Guys that decide to pick 'better/cheaper' batteries off the web are on their own IMO. The safe advice is to use the recommended battery from TV. It's been well tested for the application. Next safest is use one someone you trust has tested and found good. Least sure to work is ordering a pile of what you decide is a better battery based on ???

OF

Sorry hadn't seen anything about size issues in any of the threads that I noticed, but then again almost no one has theirs so real testing couldn't be done anyways. I had ordered the 2900mAH since they use the same Panasonic cell in them that I can only assume and think TET said they were going to use, just wrapped by someone else. I was at first worried when I saw 3400mAH, I know many companies completely mislabel their batteries. Judging by the batteries almost out of frame in his picture it was the same wrapper so I can only assume there isn't that much of a variance. The brand also claims using dual protection, so the PCB is likely to be a bit thicker. Having been a 'laser enthusiast' for a while helped me get a bit of knowledge for what to expect.
I still have some Tenergy's in the mail as well with a lower mAH rating. Had Amazon store credit so I figured it would be time to put it to good use.
Thank you again for chiming in with your knowledge though, you've been invaluable throughout this wait! I just wish I could get my hands on a Cera as quick as you can!

 

[Medical Mark]

Titanium so shiny so far away

I hope I get my notification today, this site is making me crazy.
Dreaming of the Cera.

 

[OF]

well guys....

looks like....

um...

can you guess what just arrived?


Hehehehe

Man, oh, man, you're on a roll now! Quick lad, get to inspecting them gadgets.....I know at least one of the faithful that's gonna be mighty hard to contain right about now.

Go TV, go! We're gonna be in tall cotton right soon now.

Sorry hadn't seen anything about size issues in any of the threads that I noticed, but then again almost no one has theirs so real testing couldn't be done anyways.

Thank you again for chiming in with your knowledge though, you've been invaluable throughout this wait! I just wish I could get my hands on a Cera as quick as you can!

Hey no need to apologize, it's in there (I personally posted as much a couple of times...) but nobody says you're supposed to hang on every word. Folks asked TV, who declined to answer past 'we know which works'. Not a big deal.

You're welcome for what I can do to help. Be a little careful about wishing you could get one early, it's neat but it does lead to LOTS of questions to be answered, but openly and by PM. Life is full of compromises you know.......

Good luck with yours, I know you'll love it when the vapor starts to roll out. At that point little problems getting there are just little problems getting there.

OF

 

[havealight101]

You're very welcome, soon you'll have the 'Northern most Cera known' I'm thinking? Maybe some Aussie can claim the 'down under' title?

.....

OF

I'm sure our Canadian friends can claim that one, I'm ok without the title's , thanks though.

 

[OF]

I'm sure our Canadian friends can claim that one, I'm ok without the title's , thanks though.

Ever look at the population distribution map up there? Basically everyone is huddled along route 1....along the border to the South. When I went to the Yukon years back, there were 14,000 folks in a HUGE area up there, half in the same town (Whitehorse). Kinda lonely up north. Not many vaporists I bet.

OF

 

[Dangus]

Any word on adapters/interfaces to pair the new cera carts with the T1 body?

 

[havealight101]

Ever look at the population distribution map up there? Basically everyone is huddled along route 1....along the border to the South. When I went to the Yukon years back, there were 14,000 folks in a HUGE area up there, half in the same town (Whitehorse). Kinda lonely up north. Not many vaporists I bet.

OF

If I recall correctly, its something close to 80% of pop. is within 50 miles of the border. I guess we keep them warm?

 

[BLAZING OG]

Any word on adapters/interfaces to pair the new cera carts with the T1 body?

This is also my question ,TET , are u planning on making adapters for the older t1 line ,adapters for e cig variable voltage 510 connections, & 601 adapters to run EL, LL, EL (LQ) ???????????????????

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I believe they're in the works once they settle down a little bit.

 

[Haywood]

As far as different batteries, here's my .

Not only do you have to take into consideration size differences, you also have to take into consideration maximum current output. Most of the lithium based batteries are longer in the protected type than in the unprotected type. This is due to the little circuit board that is placed in the wrapping on top of (or the bottom of) the cell itself. Not just 18650s either. I have both protected and unprotected 14500 batteries (AA size) that are significantly different in length. Both are made by AW, but the protected cell won't fit into my standard AA size battery holder (I use for charging) and the unprotected (IMR) is a little loose. Both happen to fit fine in the Ultra body.

Be careful about which 18650 batteries you choose. The protected cells that are rated at 2900mAh and above usually have voltage sag under heavy load. We have consistently found that the cells that are rated with a bit less capacity work much better with the products that TET makes. TET has also consistently supplied the best choice of cells for their products.

That said, my opinion is there are two cells that are appropriate for the Cera line. The Panasonic hybrid/IMR CGR18650CH button top, rated at 2250mAh, and the AW IMR 18650 rated at 2000mAh. I just ordered a couple of the Panasonics, but it's really a toss up between the two.

The 3100mAh Panasonic NCR18650As and the 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650Bs are both good (unprotected) batteries, and the Orbtronic added protection circuit boards are also reported to be well made. Their protection circuitry will cut out at 8A, but that shouldn't be a problem with a 16W Cera core, which draws just under 4A. On the other hand, , at the ~4A that the Cera draws, it turns out the two NCR Panasonic cells don't really provide their rated capacity, while the special hi-drain Panasonic hybrid/IMR CGR18650CH and the AW IMR do. Neither of the two hi-drain batteries have (or need) a protection circuit board, and hence they're not as long, and tend to fit things better. I don't think this will matter with the Cera itself, but as mentioned, may have significance in fitting in a given battery charger.

That all said, I suspect that the protected Panasonic NCR18650s will work just fine in the Cera, just not any better or longer than the ones that TET is currently supplying (the Panasonic hybrid/IMR CGR18650CH). It will be interesting to see what cells TET gets when their supplier finally gets its act together.

Oh, and if you're in a money crunch for some reason, the Panasonic hybrid/IMR 2250mAh CGR18650CH batteries are available (from US based suppliers, not China based) for $9 each, and the AW IMR 2000mAh 18650s are available for $11 each. About half the price of the Orbtronic cells at $19 each...

 

[Medical Mark]

Ever look at the population distribution map up there? Basically everyone is huddled along route 1....along the border to the South. When I went to the Yukon years back, there were 14,000 folks in a HUGE area up there, half in the same town (Whitehorse). Kinda lonely up north. Not many vaporists I bet.

OF

Hey guys I lived in Inuvik.nt for 22 years and Whitehorse is a 15 hours drive south of inuvik. My kids live there still, I'm divorced had to get out of the north because of medical reasons anyway OF its cool to hear you drove the Alaska highway and was in my stomping grounds up in the north.

It's cool to hear where these things end up.
When I go up to nuvik to get my kids this year ill remember you as I medicate on that long ass lonely highway, the scenery is amazing hey. The country is huge but not big enough for the Cera not to mak e her way around the world and to the ends of the earth. Lol

 

[Dreamerr]

Bring lots of batteries Mark and a car charger. I thought you were in Canada but guess Alaska oh well my brain is usually mush. I have been to Alaska. Typical cruise stuff before becoming a crip. It is beautiful there.

 

[Medical Mark]

Alaska is on the way just passed Whitehorse,Yukon and inuvik Canada is even higher up like 1300 km higher up passed Whitehorse and Alaska, anchorage isn't that far away from Whitehorse.
You have to drive through Whitehorse,Yukon p the Alaska highway to get to Fairbanks and anchorage, Alaska it's a big world with long isolated roads from where I am now I have to drive for 3 days to see my kids to pick them up.

Ya battery charger and spares to boot. I've driven this roads over 30 times ove the passed 22 years and yes I have medicated alongside the most beautiful scenery in the world just to get a sense of the beauty of life and this world e live in next time Cera will accompany me on this journey to the ends of the earth once again.

 

[OF]

That said, my opinion is there are two cells that are appropriate for the Cera line. The Panasonic hybrid/IMR CGR18650CH button top, rated at 2250mAh, and the AW IMR 18650 rated at 2000mAh. I just ordered a couple of the Panasonics, but it's really a toss up between the two.

Very cool, with you basically all the way. Batteries is not an easy choice, really. What we really want to know most (what 'sag' and other compromises happen at our abnormal power levels) isn't generally available. Not the sort of stuff most makers want to brag about. 'However, our product only....' is not considered a positive way to start a sentence.

My only quibble is I've tried both the 1600 and 2000 mAh AW IMRs and the 1600s are actually a little lower internal resistance. They sag less and heat less than the 2000s (which are still much better than most). After trying both I bought another 1600 next time. I basically don't deep discharge them anyway, I don't miss the small drop in capacity as much as knowing it's giving maximum heat where I want it and minimum where I don't. A very fine point.

Hey guys I lived in Inuvik.nt for 22 years and Whitehorse is a 15 hours drive south of inuvik. My kids live there still, I'm divorced had to get out of the north because of medical reasons anyway OF its cool to hear you drove the Alaska highway and was in my stomping grounds up in the north.

It's cool to hear where these things end up.
When I go up to nuvik to get my kids this year ill remember you as I medicate on that long ass lonely highway, the scenery is amazing hey. The country is huge but not big enough for the Cera not to mak e her way around the world and to the ends of the earth. Lol

Small world. We went up to Dawson then turned North on the Dempster Highway, then under construction, with the Arctic Circle our goal. It wasn't done yet. We drove around the road block, found the (dry) camp, swapped the guy pealing spuds half a bottle of brandy for a suggestion. He directed us to a gravel pit to hide in for the night, the next morning we had to hoof it the last half dozen miles past the end of grade across the tundra to the river. Damn near killed me. Nasty stuff. Anyway, we swam the river, had a smoke and it was all South from there. At that moment we were further North than you could drive.

Please do think of Jim and I when you pass that way next. Makes a guy feel kinda small, doesn't it? How in the world did the poineers ever make it to the coast in wagons without roads? They walked of course, they only ride in the movies, who wants to eat that dust even if you could ride. People were made of different stuff. Just like Dempster (ever read his story?).

OF