Discontinued Thermovape Cera

OF

Well-Known Member
Step 1. Warm it up 20-30 seconds according to steps.
Step 2. Draw slowly looking for and vapor (test puffs then hitting accordingly once the correct temp/vapor return is reached.

Is that about right?

No, not close enough I think. One more time, step 1 is not a matter of time, it's a matter of heat. Forget seconds, the core has to saturate or you won't 'get there' for step 3. You may not be doing this fully in which case all afterwards is very chancy. If you can't get step 1 to go, fix that before you go on. Trying to make it work well without enough power on tap won't fly.

Step 2 is about heat (drawing heat into the load), not vapor. You're trying to transfer heat, not make vapor.

Don't cheat. Complete each step. Then do the next. That's why they're steps not guidelines......

I'm sorry, for whatever reason I'm not getting through on this it seems? That happens, perhaps someone else can explain in different terms?

OF
 
OF,

Smokeyjojackson

New Member
Hey guys,

So after long consideration and research, I've decided that I want to pull the trigger on the Cera EO. However, I want to buy the batteries and the charger separately from a different source. I was looking at the Panasonic NCR18650PD 2900mah 3.7V battery.

Does anyone know where I can buy them online or at a store in SoCal for cheap? The ones at FastTech have been sold out for quite a while now. And if anyone knows of a place where I can buy the Cera in person, that information would be extremely helpful as well.
No, not close enough I think. One more time, step 1 is not a matter of time, it's a matter of heat. Forget seconds, the core has to saturate or you won't 'get there' for step 3. You may not be doing this fully in which case all afterwards is very chancy. If you can't get step 1 to go, fix that before you go on. Trying to make it work well without enough power on tap won't fly.

Step 2 is about heat (drawing heat into the load), not vapor. You're trying to transfer heat, not make vapor.

Don't cheat. Complete each step. Then do the next. That's why they're steps not guidelines......

I'm sorry, for whatever reason I'm not getting through on this it seems? That happens, perhaps someone else can explain in different terms?

OF

Thanks for your patience sir.

I will work on technique and report back with crow to eat. :o)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Thanks for your patience sir.

I will work on technique and report back with crow to eat. :o)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


I guess I'm just confused.

I can let this thing heat up till it can barely be held and puff through it for a few minutes and never get anywhere. I guarantee its as saturated with heat as it will get.

I guess its just over my head.

I am following the instructions as well as the only youtube video showing it actually being loaded and used and I do not get the same results.

I know I am coming off as dense here.

I guess it is what it is.

Thanks again.
 
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Smokeyjojackson,
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420time

Well-Known Member
well you need to use the recommended batteries for the best performance. itll be better to hold it down for a good 45 seconds before taking a pull.
 

hoptimum

Well-Known Member
I guess I'm just confused.

I can let this thing heat up till it can barely be held and puff through it for a few minutes and never get anywhere. I guarantee its as saturated with heat as it will get.

I guess its just over my head.

I am following the instructions as well as the only youtube video showing it actually being loaded and used and I do not get the same results.

I know I am coming off as dense here.

I guess it is what it is.

Thanks again.

May I ask how much you are loading in the bowl initially?
 

OF

Well-Known Member
I can let this thing heat up till it can barely be held and puff through it for a few minutes and never get anywhere. I guarantee its as saturated with heat as it will get.

I am following the instructions as well as the only youtube video showing it actually being loaded and used and I do not get the same results.

Agreed. You've found a mode that doesn't work the way you want, and are sticking to it. Full points for dedication. To do what you want, what you see others doing, you have to manage heat better. That's what the 3 steps are all about, managing heat not making clouds at first opportunity.

I'm not sure how to put it except doing the same thing over and over is giving you the same results for a reason (or more likely a series of them). I'm not convinced you're getting enough heat. I don't think you're really completing step 1. Not doing so (building up a reserve of heat) means you're using the heat as it's developed (no reserve to call on). A bit like starting your car in gear with the clutch out (now no longer allowed, but once possible), forcing the starter motor to drag the entire car to idle speed rather than just the engine and flywheel. From a standing start the 15 or so Watts available is just not enough.

Again, you're using a low production technique expecting advanced results.

I still question step 1. Are you really saturating the core? How long does that take to happen? Not 'I waited XX seconds and assumed it's done', how many seconds until the core reaches full power and IR is flying around the core at levels that start to mask details of the hot spots......as hot as it'll go and at stable equilibrium. It's just not going to work the way you want without doing that first.

"as saturated with heat as it will get" is not the goal, clearly that's not enough for you. Saturation is making full power in the core, not some subjective result in the body. I suspect the basic problem is right there, your core remains dominated by hot spots (meaning most of it is too cold).

Ever cook Chinese food? If you put the food in a cold wok, add cold oil, put it on the fire and heat it up you get poor results even though it eventually gets 'plenty hot'. Same thing, heat your wok first (step 1) before transferring the heat to the material (step 2)?

I guess I'm just confused.

I guess its just over my head.

I know I am coming off as dense here.

I guess it is what it is.

Thanks again.

Obviously you're confused, I've failed to communicate the idea well enough. I'm sorry, but that obviously happens despite my intent sometimes....... I don't agree it's over your head or somehow your fault, it's just for whatever reason I'm not able to get the idea of intermediate steps that don't involve making vapor being important. We keep coming back to the same point, nothing is changing. I'm not getting traction here for whatever reason.......

You're welcome for the effort of course, but success is the only thing that will feed the bulldog. Perhaps someone else has better words to offer.......time I think to step aside and let them try?

FWIW once again I still think you may well have a battery issue, Cera is extremely demanding on them. You've proven to my satisfaction that battery isn't cutting it the way you're using it? We need to change that somehow to get past step 1 I think.

Good luck with it, it is worth getting right. Hundreds of guys have, it can be done.

Think about that wok........ You're trying to simmer it, we need stir frying. You need more fire, unclear if it's because of hardware (poor quality battery) or software (technique), but counter intuitive as it is it has all the earmarks of not enough heat available at the key time.....bringing us back to step 1 once again.

OF
 
OF,
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YeeeBuddy

Well-Known Member
I dunno but i have always got the best results from letting the LL core get red hot empty without the top cap on(usually a 30+second warmup), then loading with a doob toob, VERY CAREFULLY I MUST ADD (http://www.rollingpaperdepot.com/image/cache/data/RPD Images/doob-tubes-prop-203-(1)-500x500.jpg) Alot of smoke shops sell these. Let the load get warm for 10-15 seconds then take a very SLOW pull. I always get nice vapor on the first hit, have never taken a test puff in my time with the cera. I think your batteries might have alot to do with your problems, I have experienced very different results with different batteries(fresh ones). 2250's vs 2900s I can just see the difference in the way it heats up, I watch the core get hot every time so i know I'm not crazy. I think once you get some proper fresh batteries and figure out the right technique you will get alot better results. I am also pretty OCD about taking off the top cap and checking the load in between hits and this could help with the top cap getting uncomfortably hot.
 
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Roth

Pining for the Mountains
Hey guys,

So after long consideration and research, I've decided that I want to pull the trigger on the Cera EO. However, I want to buy the batteries and the charger separately from a different source. I was looking at the Panasonic NCR18650PD 2900mah 3.7V battery.

Does anyone know where I can buy them online or at a store in SoCal for cheap? The ones at FastTech have been sold out for quite a while now. And if anyone knows of a place where I can buy the Cera in person, that information would be extremely helpful as well.


While these batteries aren't the ones you were asking about, these are quite a steal and will work beautifully with the Cera.


4pcs Panasonic CGR18650CH 3.6 Volt Li-ion Battery 2250 mAh


That's 4 batteries for $30 with shipping. These batteries were originally the ones TET was going to include with the Cera, but they've been discontinued. Apparently there was a decent size stock pile of them though, as some are still available. I picked up a 4 pack for myself, and might even by another 4 pack soon for some backups. The price is hard to beat.

As for a charger, I don't have a personal recommendation for that as I use the one from TET. Good luck!
 
Roth,

Roth

Pining for the Mountains
Actually I would rather go with these
http://www.orbtronic.com/batteries-...li-ion-battery-button-top-panasonic-orbtronic
they are cheaper, higher capacity, safer chemistry and the exact same cell as as the Panasonic NCR18650PD which is what TET recommends now instead of the discontinued CGRs

Maybe I'm misreading the page, but aren't those batteries $14 each? It says there's a minimum order of 2, and when it's added to the shopping cart, the total comes out to $28. I never see mention of more then one battery for the $14 price. But like I said, I definitely could be misreading it. So they're either twice the price of the 2250mah, or roughly the same price if I'm misreading the listing.

As far as the higher capacity, while technically yes, that doesn't necessarily make them better. I'm far from a battery expert, but I seem to remember some discharge charts a while back showing the 2250mah batteries actually produced more power for the first ~10% of the charge then the 2900mah. The two batteries then followed roughly the same curve until the very end of the discharge cycle. The 2900mah lasted a little bit longer then the 2250mah, but by that low of a charge, the 2900mah wouldn't be able to power the Cera anymore, requiring a recharge.

From what I've read, for all intents and purposes, the two batteries will provide equal performance for users. And isn't the only reason TET recommends the 2900mah ones due to supply?

Either way, I don't think you can go wrong with either.

And like I said, I'm far from an expert, so if I've made a mistake somewhere, someone please feel free to correct me.

Stay vaped!
 

GR

Well-Known Member
The 3 EO carts I sent in to TET to be rebuilt are on their way back to me. The bad news is nothing was done to them since they tested to TETs "specs". I am a little disappointed since one of those carts has made this trip three times for almost zero airflow, I have a three strikes and your out rule. Buying a new cart every time the ceramic has built up with contaimanates is expensive and a waste of perfectly good materials.

If anyone has used Health Stone products most likely has found out the ceramic does have a life span, when the ceramic has absorbed enough contaimanates it becomes a nasty hit and no amount of cleaning gets it entirely out.

I tried my best to get Zeki to let me pay them for the rebuilds but he insisted it was covered by warranty. I know I saw a few posts of people having the same issues as me, off flavors being produced, unable to load very much concentrate anymore, and longer heating times to get to vapor production, I guess this doesn't fall into warranty coverage. I should have broke the top piece of ceramic but breaking something to get it to work again goes against my nature. Moral of the story is to make sure your cart is not working to spec to get it rebuilt and hope at Cera's one year birthday TET will have a pricing plan for rebuilding carts.

I know Zeki didn't mean to offend me by his comment on keeping my Cera carts clean but he did, if they had taken my carts apart they would have seen this. However I have been smoking/vaping for 30 years and take pride in my devices, much of which is custom glass I keep spotless. Cleaning pipes, glass, and vapes is no easy task, especially if the residue has seen high heat like it will in the EO cart with dry burns, I even do very long 91% ISO soaks with multiple changes of the ISO but this can only do so much. For example the glass joint where a nail suspends tends to bake oil onto the glass and needs a good alcohol soak, scrapping, more soaking and rubbing to get it clean again. Hell even dropping a dome that has globs of reclaim or just missed dabs won't clean perfectly after sitting in 91% ISO for two days without elbow grease or a salt ISO shake so how the hell is it going to get all the gunk out of a Cera core.

So when I get my carts back the 3 strikes and out cart will go onto the work bench, it has lived a good life and travelled 21 thousand mile around this country so maybe there is something for me to learn in dissecting it.
 

tedthehed

Member
Jojackson,

I had the same frustrating experience with the loose leaf cart. and have given up vaping leaf in the Cera.
It is good for portable meltable extracts.

Those cheaper panasonics have NO PROTECTION chip, is why they were discontinued probably.
The "protected" cells cut off at a low voltage set point. Also perform other protective duties..short circuit I think, overheating maybe,
but I need to check that... added later: so I checked it, and although they dont say its unprotected (the bums) I will say they ARE NOT PROTECTED based on their website warning to not undercharge below 2,5 or charge over 4.25....! anyway , point is , you really want to use only protected cells . . otherwise they can self destruct..
they were originally meant, I believe, for use in a circuit that has voltage controls built in already..

anyone try 99% isopropyl yet?????????
Gr, jst caught your post; I assume you mean 99% -- I often make the same error.. the secret ingrediet to soaking is agitation. on a molecular level , when you stir coffee, some particles can get up to 10,000 miles an hour for short distances )unbelievable, right? it has to do with a "whiplash" effect in the eddies of the stirrer!) anyway, thats what helps cause the molecular bonds to break and the ingredients to mix..and the oil to dissolve..but I dont dsagree, there is always a spot...:)

another thing; I dont see how a cart, even if the ceramic is "soiled" can work less well for that reason.
The ceramc gets incredibly hot, and should vaporize any extract in contact with it, or very near it...
Shouldnt it?
 
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VapoRoor

DAB-a-DAB I'll dooooo
I use my Cera loose leaf everyday. no problems

Let it be known the user having difficulties operating the Cera isn't using the recommended battery
He stated it was an off brand.

I think the three critical steps won't matter if you don't have enough power or the appropriate amount of power flowing through the core.

Here's what I do.
I use a rubber furniture tip (that would normally go on the bottom part of a leg on a metal chair) with an adhesive vinyl bumper in the center to activate the switch when the furniture tip slides over the metal switch connected to the Cera. (the part you unscrew to insert the battery)

Step 1- unscrew switch, insert appropriate battery, screw switch back into place and then slide on the auto-on cap (referenced above)

While my Cera is warming up

Step 2 - bring out material

Step 3 - Once my Cera has been pre-heating for around twenty seconds it becomes easier to remove the mouthpiece because the heat softens up the o rings a bit. So mouthpiece comes off (cera is Still on)

Step 4 - load material a little under the rim and give it a light tap down. I'm talking like a slight pat with your pinky.

Step 5 - attach mouthpiece assembly and Now perform the three critical steps OF talks about

The transfer of heat is critical

Just know, there are people achieving satisfying results with The Cera Loose Leaf Cartridge.
You just have to understand the way it works before going gung ho

Good luck guys and girls
 

tedthehed

Member
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CAD6AUE/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2ULLSF7VWONFR

here is the description from the above orbitronic 3400 mah PROTECTED batteries ($30 for two)
remember all the "protective" features are absent from the panasonics mentioned earlier..

Product Description
Protection: Over-current (Activated @ 10A-12A), Over-charge (Activated @ 4.35V) - Over-discharge (Activated @ 2.5V) - Over-temp. and DUAL short circuit protection (External, and Internal).Protection circuit designed by Seiko. ICs made in Japan.->> Best battery for High-Power flashlight users, or for anyone who is looking for the longest run time possible. This is the largest REAL capacity available on US market.->> Very safe to operate, This 18650 Li-ion protected battery will auto. disconnect itself from el. circuit in case of: Short circuit - Extreme temperature, Abnormally high current , Over-voltage - Over-charge, Over discharge.->> Battery cell: Panasonic NCR18650B, Capacity (Ah): 3.4 Ah (3400mAh), Charging Voltage (V): 4.2 V, Energy (Wh): 12.2 Wh, Energy Density (Wh/L): 730 Wh/L, Nominal Voltage (V): 3.6V - 3.7V, Weight (g): 46 g, Diameter (mm): 18.6 mm (+/- 0.03), Length (mm): 68.9 mm (+/- 0.03) -- Top Button (Positive) made of Nickel (Ni) - Negative made of Copper (Cu) for an ideal conductivity, and durability.
 
tedthehed,

GR

Well-Known Member
anyone try 99% isopropyl yet?????????
Gr, jst caught your post; I assume you mean 99% -- I often make the same error.. the secret ingrediet to soaking is agitation. on a molecular level , when you stir coffee, some particles can get up to 10,000 miles an hour for short distances )unbelievable, right? it has to do with a "whiplash" effect in the eddies of the stirrer!) anyway, thats what helps cause the molecular bonds to break and the ingredients to mix..and the oil to dissolve..but I dont dsagree, there is always a spot...:)

another thing; I dont see how a cart, even if the ceramic is "soiled" can work less well for that reason.
The ceramc gets incredibly hot, and should vaporize any extract in contact with it, or very near it...
Shouldnt it?

I have not picked up any 99% ISO, I have used 95% Ethenol but that is it. No 91% ISO is what I meant and use, I can get it local and cheap, I go through a lot of it cleaning glass.

I agree with agitation! Salt does not dissolve in ISO so when it comes to glass salt and ISO with the shake and break method is king, except the break part especially with a $900 custom glass piece, still brings tears to a grown mans eyes. I have soaked Cera EO cores in 91% for days with agitation and heat ( heat makes cleaning more effective but when dealing with flammables one must take safe precautions not to blow their asses up), and have had great results until about 2oz of BHO has gone through a cart. My BHO is not winterized and still has some waxes but is made from all flower, I like where it is at and cleaning it more results in flavor loss.

Ok, I will try 99% ISO, why not! these carts coming back to me are useless.
 
GR,

tedthehed

Member
yeah. what I do is put a tight cork in the bowl-hole. then I can devote both hands to firmly gripping the pipe!

...also I find swirling the liquid rotationally, while holding it horizontally, helps wipe the surfaces clean, but just plan
shaking back and forth with gr eat vigor is also effective, puts the energy into the movement that you need..
...aaand, I REUSE the alcohol! You can get at least five, ten cleanings per 8 ozs. alcohol..if not more..
then you can let it evaporate in a flat dish, and viola! more .
 
tedthehed,

Skeena

Standing stone faced like a statue.
So my cera does not heat up unless I apply downward pressure on the cartridge towards the battery, and you cant do this for too long because it heats up.

Is there any fix for this? Placing tinfoil on the spring has not helped.
 
Skeena,

Busta

Well-Known Member
So my cera does not heat up unless I apply downward pressure on the cartridge towards the battery, and you cant do this for too long because it heats up.

Is there any fix for this? Placing tinfoil on the spring has not helped.
Sounds like the cart tip doesn't touch the battery positive. Have you tried another battery? Of is the cart screwing down all the way?
 
Busta,

OF

Well-Known Member
So my cera does not heat up unless I apply downward pressure on the cartridge towards the battery, and you cant do this for too long because it heats up.

Is there any fix for this? Placing tinfoil on the spring has not helped.

Yes, send it in. Tinfoil on the spring would have no effect, that addresses a different issue (switch/tail cap).

It sounds suspiciously like the strap connection to the screw plate. There's a chance it's the ground side of the heater in the cart I guess (do you have another cart?), but my money's on the strap. Pushing on such intermittent connections will only make it worse over time due to sparking.

I hope you have a backup vape, I think it's time to send it to the shop (with the cleaned cart unless you can confirm it's not the cart with a second one?).

Good luck.

OF
 

Smokeyjojackson

New Member
Yes, send it in. Tinfoil on the spring would have no effect, that addresses a different issue (switch/tail cap).

It sounds suspiciously like the strap connection to the screw plate. There's a chance it's the ground side of the heater in the cart I guess (do you have another cart?), but my money's on the strap. Pushing on such intermittent connections will only make it worse over time due to sparking.

I hope you have a backup vape, I think it's time to send it to the shop (with the cleaned cart unless you can confirm it's not the cart with a second one?).

Good luck.

OF

Ok new Orbtronic batteries are here and charging.

I will take freshly charged batteries and give it another shot tonight and report back with results.

I am honestly still at a bit of a loss as to how the unit can be so hot it would burn you with any sort of prolonged skin contact yet it isn't "saturated" enough to produce a visible vapor hit.
 
Smokeyjojackson,

clouded vision

Well-Known Member
I am honestly still at a bit of a loss as to how the unit can be so hot it would burn you with any sort of prolonged skin contact yet it isn't "saturated" enough to produce a visible vapor hit.
Water will start to scald you at 140f, well below the 360f or so it takes to produce the clouds you are looking for. Also the the body isn't being cooled by air being rapidly drawn over it like the core is. Hopefully the new battery will solve your problems but remember the 3 steps are key.
 
clouded vision,
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Skeena

Standing stone faced like a statue.
Yes I have the LL and EO carts, both have the same issue(pressure from top needed) and I have also tried multiple batteries.
 
Skeena,
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OF

Well-Known Member
I am honestly still at a bit of a loss as to how the unit can be so hot it would burn you with any sort of prolonged skin contact yet it isn't "saturated" enough to produce a visible vapor hit.

As CV just said, it's a matter of degrees (I know, bad pun, but it's late......). You can get burned at a few hundred degrees, even less, we need about 1500 degrees to saturate the core. That's a huge difference. That 1500 has to happen or no joy. Only hot without vapor.

Did you consider my wok analogy? I think it's really appropriate.

I'm not at all sure why you quoted my post to another guy with an entirely different problem????

Good luck with the new batteries, I hope they're appropriate.

Yes I have the LL and EO carts, both have the same issue(pressure from top needed) and I have also tried multiple batteries.

Yeah, I was afraid of that. A bad core would be too easy.

Seeing as you get it on more than one core, I'd be comfortable sending just the body in so cleaning the carts would not be an issue.

The good news is last time I asked the new version of the strap had been basically problem free. They're seeing very few bad straps, and those are on older units for the most part. Hopefully they can turn it around quickly.

OF
 

Rocco

Well-Known Member
So my cera does not heat up unless I apply downward pressure on the cartridge towards the battery, and you cant do this for too long because it heats up.

Is there any fix for this? Placing tinfoil on the spring has not helped.
Im pretty sure you'll have to send it in buddy! Ive had the same problem occur about 3 times and sent it in for repair each time after doing every troubleshooting procedure provided by TET or resourceful FC members.

From my experiences I gather its the strap connection failing at the plate due to a combination of the 90 degree connection angle and the (well intended) flexibility of the plate, even can batteries play a small part in adding more stress to the connection.
 
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Rocco,

Smokeyjojackson

New Member
As CV just said, it's a matter of degrees (I know, bad pun, but it's late......). You can get burned at a few hundred degrees, even less, we need about 1500 degrees to saturate the core. That's a huge difference. That 1500 has to happen or no joy. Only hot without vapor.

Did you consider my wok analogy? I think it's really appropriate.

I'm not at all sure why you quoted my post to another guy with an entirely different problem????

Good luck with the new batteries, I hope they're appropriate.



Yeah, I was afraid of that. A bad core would be too easy.

Seeing as you get it on more than one core, I'd be comfortable sending just the body in so cleaning the carts would not be an issue.

The good news is last time I asked the new version of the strap had been basically problem free. They're seeing very few bad straps, and those are on older units for the most part. Hopefully they can turn it around quickly.

OF

Im taking everything you said into consideration.

Still waiting on a full charge for the new Orbtronic batteries and I will give it a go.

As for the reply to the other guy I might have just been over medicated and clicked the wrong post.

Thanks for the help!
 
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