Discontinued Thermovape Cera (Original thread, closed because of chaos)

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vorrange

Vapor.wise
None of which our priorities for us. We focus solely on Quality, Safety, Performance (Convection).

Form follows function.

If the best batteries were square and the best ceramic green, the Cera would be a green box.

That is why competition is good. One size doesn't fit all.

Haven't read all of what you wrote but i just got one question. If a T1 or an EVO could also be one of the disappointing vaporizers for some, why not include them in the video as well in that particularly disapointing part?

And i don't buy the american pride BS.. the MFLB is american and family based. Just save me the marketing and "we are here for you".. I just have ONE issue with the video.

EDIT:I'm not questioning the quality of your product and i applaud that you are making a US based vaporizer.

One last thought: my request or should i say, what i was asking for, was just for you to NOT trash other companies while promoting your own. And again you used that to trash other companies. You might be right, but it is out of the scope of what i said.
 
vorrange,

kushcabbage

vapor nerd
If it's better why not make sure people know that. Marketing is viral and direct these days. Was a lot better than the dancing girl dv video..
 

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
Haven't read all of what you wrote but i just got one question. If a T1 or an EVO could also be one of the disappointing vaporizers for some, why not include them in the video as well in that particularly disapointing part?

If it's better why not make sure people know that. Marketing is viral and direct these days. Was a lot better than the dancing girl dv video..

I too think the video should focus on the selling points rather than the competition, I mean TV has so many selling points they're honestly the last people that need to be mudslinging...
 
JoeKickass,

OF

Well-Known Member
Wow, tough crowd. We're talking I think about nine seconds out of over two and a half minutes were less than half a split screen shows a spectrum of unnamed 'other vapes' (much of that out of focus) which might not have been satisfactory to some owners in the past? And that's a sin? Seriously?

Boy, don't pick on another guy's dog I guess? Some of my favorites are in that group, I compare them to one another all the time.

What's the rule? It's OK for one maker to say 'my product is better than anyone else's' but not for the next to say 'some people might prefer mine to some of these others'?

Everyone gets an opinion I guess. I guess mine is as a promotional video I don't see anything extreme or even out of the ordinary. Maybe I'm just being insensitive, again.

Tough crowd.

OF
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Oh sure. Go ahead and stick up for em while holding onto the only existing prototype around. Jk.
I really didn't see anything wrong with the video either. And made in America does mean something to me.
I think that what these guys are doing is great. And I'm starting to wonder if all the guys making dildo cracks are just jealous cause there's is 6 1/2 inches long like cera's. Lmao.
 
Bart,
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vorrange

Vapor.wise
Well, to me, it means nothing since i'm not american, but i get the point and if i was, it would mean something as well.

OF, i have no problem with comparisons and i have no problem with addressing the "faults" in those vaporizers. But, IMO, a promotional video should have no business trashing other products, but maybe i am too sensitive.. or maybe, i just think it is plain stupid to resort to that and it does not make sense to do that.

And, in fact, i would prefer an open discussion on the merits or advantages of the Cera over their competitors than subliminal messages with foggy images but where you can read PAX perfectly and you identify immediately the MFLB tin box.

I like inteligent marketing, that 9 seconds to me are like the monkey who throws poo at something he doesn't like.
 

Bluntcrush

Director of Vapor Research Labs™
Yeah, I am not down on the video either. It looks very professionally made and completely serves it's purpose. Cera, Cera, storms start to brew in your eyes...
Cera, Cera...
No time is a good time for goodbyes...


 
Bluntcrush,
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Wow, tough crowd. We're talking I think about nine seconds out of over two and a half minutes were less than half a split screen shows a spectrum of unnamed 'other vapes' (much of that out of focus) which might not have been satisfactory to some owners in the past? And that's a sin? Seriously?

Boy, don't pick on another guy's dog I guess? Some of my favorites are in that group, I compare them to one another all the time.

What's the rule? It's OK for one maker to say 'my product is better than anyone else's' but not for the next to say 'some people might prefer mine to some of these others'?

Everyone gets an opinion I guess. I guess mine is as a promotional video I don't see anything extreme or even out of the ordinary. Maybe I'm just being insensitive, again.

Tough crowd.

OF
First point: I don't have any problem with either the video or Noah's explanation

I suspect the issue is somewhat close to the legal notion (*I AM NOT A LAWYER*) of "puffery". By that measure a vendor may claim to be the "best" or say "noone is better", but any comparison to another product requires substantiated proof. For example, a truck company might say "Ours is the toughest!", but if they say "Ours is tougher than a Ram!" - they will probably have a lawsuit plus alienate many Ram owners. Sort of like negative vs. positive political ads (now that those are gone for a while). Many, but not most, people just "shut down" when viewing negative ads. I suspect some of the people here are reacting ("projecting" in "Psych" terms) their view of negative marketing upon the otherwise greatly favorable opinion they hold of TV/TET; For a little more "Psych", this causes "cognitive dissonance" and in turn upset and discomfort. e.g. There is little that so bothers me as hearing a bad argument proposed as explanation for a position I believe in.

Don't confuse an inability to see the other person's view with choosing to ignore or belittle it; I don't think you're being insensitive - I certainly hope not.

-NDA
 

geneele

Member
Eh. This is a fairly pointless argument. I was actually enjoying stalking this thread for a while. Thermovape created something they're proud of - they can brag a bit. Don't like it - don't buy it.

So I just ordered my first vaporizer (and I took the leap and ordered this one of course). What put me over the edge? I was enjoying a meal at Pied de Cochon (killer restaurant!) in Montreal last week and saw the table next to me puffing away happily at a T1. I couldn't smell a thing - and they clearly enjoyed the meal much more than I did.

Let's just sit back and listen to more stories of tests from OF :p
Any idea when the next beta users are getting theirs? Seems like an awfully quick testing time before shipping begins in 2 weeks.
 

mimijuana

Member
I have been looking into purchasing my first portable concentrate vaporizer. The cera seems exciting. I too have been stalking this thread, and though a lot of people are asking the same question, I cant seem to find a straight answer: Does the cera work well with bubble hash? Any videos showing how that would work?
 

vorrange

Vapor.wise
Never said i wouldn't buy it nor that they couldn't brag and i actually mentioned the Cera is a promising vaporizer.

But i agree, the point was made, and it is time to move on.

mimijuana, I think you could try bubble hash on top of an herb pad, but that might gunk it up a bit.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
Oh sure. Go ahead and stick up for em while holding onto the only existing prototype around.

It's not so much having the prototype (there are a couple more) as Noah having my family chained to a wall in the dungeon of his mountain top fortress.....

Cera, Cera, storms start to brew in your eyes...
Cera, Cera...
No time is a good time for goodbyes...

How weird, I'd have though a guy that can dance as good as you can would be able to carry a tune.....

Eh.

So I just ordered my first vaporizer (and I took the leap and ordered this one of course).

Any idea when the next beta users are getting theirs? Seems like an awfully quick testing time before shipping begins in 2 weeks.

First off, howdy, welcome to the family. I hope your 'blessed arrival' is on time and everything we all hope it can be.

I agree, time is getting short. I'm sure I'll finish in time, and hope the rest of the Beta testers get theirs in time to contribute as well. There were parts for a dozen or so spread out the other day, one complete, another getting there. I hope to get an update later this week when the oil cart is ready for pickup.

Between now and then I've got some testing to get done to clear the decks for that. Hopefully I'll be able to get back on it this evening. I had some promising results this morning but had to abort the test and take care of some other stuff. I want to reset and try it again of course. More when there is more.

Anyway, welcome to the fun, from what I see so far you're getting in on the ground floor of an truly neat tool.

. I too have been stalking this thread, and though a lot of people are asking the same question, I cant seem to find a straight answer: Does the cera work well with bubble hash? Any videos showing how that would work?

I think the reason for that is nobody knows for sure. That was in fact the test series I was starting this morning. I hope to have that information soon. As I said before, it seemed real promising before I had to shut it down and put out fires.

Sorry, I'm not in the video department, I don't even do photos except very rarely. Not big on phones either.....my cell phone is in the car in case of a flat tire or something (I honestly don't know the number). The charger is with it because the battery is sure to be dead by now......

Don't wear a watch any more either, don't have to.

Thanks.

OF
 

Dreamerr

Always in a state of confusion and silliness♀
OF is 98 in case you all didn't know. I had to tell you. We are lucky he knows how to use the computer to type these posts. We are actually even luckier that he knows how to find things and go on to write in threads. You go old man lmfao:rofl:
 

mimijuana

Member
Vorrange- you mean the same way I do with old fashioned combustion?
OF- look forward to the results from your testing.
From what I've gathered theres a few of you here are currently doing premarket testing on this product. Anyone planning on making a video showing how the cera vapes medicinal concentrates?
 

vorrange

Vapor.wise
Vorrange- you mean the same way I do with old fashioned combustion?
OF- look forward to the results from your testing.
From what I've gathered theres a few of you here are currently doing premarket testing on this product. Anyone planning on making a video showing how the cera vapes medicinal concentrates?

Pretty much, yeah. :) That is what i do with my morocan hash using my WW or Solo. If i end up with a Cera, i will try it as well.
 
vorrange,

OF

Well-Known Member
OF is 98 in case you all didn't know.

Some days I feel older than that.

For a guy who made a fair living on the back of high tech stuff, it's kind of fun to try being a Luddite for a while. I fought computers from the days before microprocessors (PDP 8s for those who were there), now I understand them for the tool of the devil they are.

I actually took typing in High School. The only guy in fact. Manual typewriters, of course. I had a friend who too Home Ec as the only guy.....he did much better than I. Turns out there you didn't have to stay in your chair and quiet. I wonder what became of him....

OF
 

OF

Well-Known Member
simply eternal now

Isn't there a song, 'I took off my watch and found I had all the time in the world'? It can be that way I guess, but I found there were plenty of clocks around me to keep me on time. But now I can enjoy friends at lunch without glancing at my watch and planning what to do next. I used to catch myself doing that, and think how rude it really was.

BTW, the last watch I wore was a self winding (I can't be trusted to remember....) mechanical Sanyo. Real hands, no battery, actually ticks. Being compulsive I got it to a few seconds a day. Sometimes I could go a month or more and be only a few minutes off, cool in itself IMO.

It's like when you're having a real adult conversation face to face and the phone rings. 99 times of 100 you ignore the real person in front of you to talk with some stranger..... I used to let it ring, would drive the guy talking to me nuts with 'aren't you going to answer that?'. Voice mail can be a useful tool too.

So yeah, 'cut the rope and you'll be free'.

OF
 
OF,
Pity more companies don't have the same business model TET does. They got it right....it's all about the customer. Ask them what they want. Give them more than they expect. Show you care more about them than the almighty dollar. It's nice to know someone is looking out for us,while still leading the way to the future. Mark my words, Cera is gonna change things. The modularity along with the standards of design are gonna make Cera the small block Chevy of the Vape world. There will be after-market companies springing up that just make parts for Cera. We'll be able to hot-rod and customize to our hearts content. The Personal Vaporizer finally defined.
I know I sound like some suck-ass shill and I don't care.
I believe,even though I've never seen one,I believe.
Only time will tell,but the smart money is on TET and the Cera concept. If they pull this off it's gonna send a lot of companies back to the drawing board,as well as making them a shitload of well earned money. Seriously,can I buy stock in the company? I mean that. It would be nice to get in on the ground floor for once.
This next year is gonna be wild...What a great time to be a vaporist!
We show ThermoVapes as well in the video :)

Pick any vaporizer, and some people may be unsatisfied with it. Our customers report to us about being unsatisfied with another vape, and then satisfied with ours, or unsatisfied by ours and satisfied by another.

So we have put it all on the lone to build a vaporizer that I would be,t factored in more direct user feedback and requests than any other vaporizer I can think of, based on what people said they found unsatisfying about the T1, Rev, or any one of a number of vapes.

We are providing a new, very different device. We believe in it, we believe that is the most scientifically founded, purpose built, portable vaporizer ever made. We were the first, and reamin the only company to deliver pocket friendly, powered, convection vaporizers. The material application of stabilized Zirconia and SS or Ti was an all out effort, and a reflection of a truly uncompromising postion of using the highest quality US sourced materials we possibly can, we simply cannot find better materials to build a vaporizer from. As far as we are concerned from a materials science and application aspect these are the safest, purest, most well suited ceramics and metals for the task of making clean vapor. We do

It is our job to find solutions for those that still smoke either because they want to, haven't vaped, or vaped but had a bad experience. All of these people we want to reach.

We do not care if it was our vaporizer, or someone else's vaporizer they are/were disappointed with. We want to do everything possible to provide a vaporizer that is NOT disappointing. You and the entire forum community are a huge part of that.

It would be a very long post if we went through every aspect of the Cera that related to a direct suggestion/request/complaint/criticism from folks just on this forum... not too mention medical testers.. etc.

The buck stops with someone and I take full responsibility for the video and stand behind it. We love you guys but we are in a serious fight. We have employees we really care about who have committed themselves to building great vaporizers. We have thousands of people we have help quit smoking over the years (we did e-cigs for awhile ahead of loose leaf convection), this keeps us focused on what we feel is important. We believe that it is possible to still build great products in America, I believe that if you can give people a chance to make a living wage, in an environment where they can learn, be creative, and have opportunity to gain expertise, and build a career, that this creates an engine of innovation, a force of creativity. So for every 1 of my employees I could have 20 people working over seas, making vaporizers under what I feel are deplorable conditions. If we sourced our materials from unregulated overseas suppliers, and used overseas suppliers we cold mark everything up 500-1000%++. I could send out 3++ bad devices for every good one and still make a killing.

Not our thing, not now , not ever.

Nate and I both feel strongly that if instead of focusing in getting rich, we focus on generating jobs, supporting other American material suppliers, machinists, foundrey's, ceramics companies, battery companies, wire companies, switch companies, spring manufactures, packaging manufactures (jars, plastics, vials, test tubes etc.) and more. we directly support well over 50 American companies in total to make each Cera. It is not cheap, or easy, but it is the only way we can be confident we are using truly the highest grade materials (verifiable from origin) and achieving the highest level of quality, both in terms of our vaporizers, and also our direct support those vaporizers, and customers.

Our goal is to set an unquestionable quality standard using the safest materials possible.

So where others have margins, and marketing. We have sweat equity, and some great employees. Well worth it. We have to get out there and make sure we let people know what we are doing (no marketing budget) however we can, I certainly do not feel that we did anything that was distasteful or derogatory in our video. I took a lot of heat when I took another manufactures cart apart, even when I took our cart apart next to it...

Sometimes I make a judgment call, I want people to know we are out there competing with those products. It is the difference of calling those products unsatisfactory vs. asking if you have been dissatisfied, I'll leave it up to you.

We still live in a free market, and their is a fine line between being a moral capitalist, and running a company that simply cannot compete with outsourced, overseas manufacturing and materials cost (not to mention labor). I feel like we are the new car maker, we have to point at some of the other new cars... and perhaps better known models and say hey look, if you tried another cars and did not like it, try us out, it is not like any other car on the market. That is part of our value proposition to you the customer, to give you something that delivers satisfaction when previously you were unsatisfied, or to deliver something that is satisfying in a way that is improved, (with the caveat that we must do it in a way that we can stand behind in terms of safety, and standards).

So my call, certainly not Tim or the rest of the crews doing. All us vaporizer manufacturers are grown ups. Competitions good, better for the customer. We love them, however we think we can do it better, that our goal, to build the best vaporizer we can.

Cheers,

Noah
 

JoeKickass

Well-Known Member
Are testers still going on this? Last I heard was efficiency is great but overall vapor volume a bit lacking?

If a tester wants to try it, I think pre-heating (maybe a lot) and then a very slow draw which ramps up in speed could produce maximum density...
 
JoeKickass,

ThermoVape

Vaporizer Manufacturer
Manufacturer
It's not so much having the prototype (there are a couple more) as Noah having my family chained to a wall in the dungeon of his mountain top fortress.....
OF


You know what you have to do if you want to see them by Christmas....



Just so people know, in case you think we are lavishing OF with 4-Star service, here is the last picture of OF at the Thermo-Essence Technologies "Beta Test" Facility

dungeon.jpg


Before you judge us, rent is very expensive in the Bay area...
 

Dreamerr

Always in a state of confusion and silliness♀
OF I took home ec and almost failed. No surprise I am sure. I also took manual typing and can type fast to this day because of it. I don't know about this new generation...all tech all the time. A phone to talk on what is that...My mom still says hold the wire. It still makes me laugh as it never made sense. As I kid every time she said it I used to hold the wire of the phone cause that is just how I am.

Ah the old days. I don't wear a watch anymore either. Retired and the watch came off as well as the pen.
 
Dreamerr,
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PB88123

Vaporist
Are testers still going on this? Last I heard was efficiency is great but overall vapor volume a bit lacking?

If a tester wants to try it, I think pre-heating (maybe a lot) and then a very slow draw which ramps up in speed could produce maximum density...

I believe the only person on this forum testing is OF. The preheat and slow draw with a gradual increase worked well with the T1 and should work just as well with the Cera. Not sure if we'll be able to get OF to do a long inhale where one may cough up a lung to see how much vapor gets exhaled.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
Not sure if we'll be able to get OF to do a long inhale where one may cough up a lung to see how much vapor gets exhaled.

Naw, I did that a day or two ago. Maybe next year I'll cheat death again. Maybe.

Otherwise, 'getting the biggest clouds possible' is on the list, not to worry. My feeling, based on experiences thus far, is it's going to do about as well as T1 (perhaps a bit less due to the slightly smaller load?). IMO it'll likely fall below Evolution on the cloud chaser's list. It is not going to be the answer to some of the prayers out there although it should work just fine for the vast majority of users....I could be wrong of course.

Last word I had no other Beta units had gone out yet, but remember this is very atypical for these sorts of tests. Traditionally testers don't know each other and the test is kept confidential from prospective customers.....for the obvious reasons. That is I would not expect TV to give me a running update on other testers, same as I've never met any of the prototype testers they use. I did meet one fellow there early on who left with a box after some discussions, I think he might have been on the list as well, but we didn't talk any details. You don't want your lab rats comparing notes after hours, objectivity is extremely important here. Each tester is expected to 'try all the ways it might be used' as they understand the product. It's kind of a two sided project, will it fail in service and how can it best be used as designed. In general, allowed changes from here forward are limited. Things like heater specifications can be easily shifted around, but leadtime for tooling changes to modify most of the parts is a deal breaker. It's a kind of 'fine tune and system quality check' on the final version.

Fun stuff, but also really important potentially.

OF
 
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