Discontinued Thermovape Cera (Original thread, closed because of chaos)

[Nucleosynthesis]

My bet is the Lawyers put their little foot down on this point? Investors/owners are usually very reluctant to expose their companies to such identified tort risks. One law suit could end TV. If it could be shown that such a risk was known before hand (and how hard is that to do with this discussion???) it could get ugly with a jury (who might even have folks that don't think MM is good?). There might even be some poor 'victum' with an Ambulance Chaser for a Brother-in-Law who might be tempted to stage such an 'accident'? Such scams can't be confined to 'swoop and squat' tricks on the highway.

Lawsuits should not be a big concern. By purchasing, you agree to their Terms and Conditions, which read, in relevant part, "By purchasing these products, Customer agrees to use products at their own risk. Under no circumstances will Thermo-Essence Technologies, LLC be held responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any loss or damage that is caused or alleged to have caused in connection with use of or reliance on any products."
Regardless of the low liability risk, I'm sure they'd rather not be involved in the death of their customers. If they die, who'd be there next time to pre-order one product, wait through months of delays, and then gladly fork over $500 for a different product with significantly reduced utility?
With that in mind, it's concerning that the pin setup might increase the chance of causing a fire - I'd probably leave the pin in all the time, for fear of losing it. (I am terrible at keeping track of anything (laptop, keys, phone), let alone a pin. I've lost many a USB flash drive cap, and those things only cost like $20. I don't want losing a pin to cause my $500 vape to become inoperable.)
I'll probably wait it out and see what they come up with, but this actually might make me return the unit.

 

[OF]

Lawsuits should not be a big concern.

Regardless of the low liability risk, I'm sure they'd rather not be involved in the death of their customers.

With that in mind, it's concerning that the pin setup might increase the chance of causing a fire - I'd probably leave the pin in all the time, for fear of losing it.

I don't want losing a pin to cause my $500 vape to become inoperable.

I agree, they should not be. The sad reality is they definitely are a big concern in the real world. No Lawyer worth having would let you think otherwise. No competent CEO would ignore such exposure of his company and investors.

Everyone knows hot coffee from McDonalds is hot, right? Such disclaimers are at best marginally useful. They were written by lawyers, they can be undone by more motivated lawyers. And are every day.

I seriously doubt there's much of a fire risk (after all you can almost hold the unit until the battery winds down) but that's not the end of the concerns I think? Burning your hand 'accidentally' could get you an award big enough to retire early. And lots of folks know that.

As to your (IMO legitimate) concerns, if you misplace the pin you have alternatives short of selling it. Any insulating pin (like a wooden match stick) will do the same thing, nothing magic about that pin. You can also remove the battery (or just the end cap). IMO no such thing as 'too safe'. You need to work on it until you feel safe personally....life is like that.

My father had a habit from 'the old days' of reversing one battery in a flashlight so it didn't accidentally get turned on and discharge the batteries. As a kid, every flashlight I grew up with around the house didn't work when you picked it up. All these years later, every once in a while I'll pick up an old school dual D cell flashlight and start to automatically open it up to put the batteries in right......

OF

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

If a Cera were to start a fire of any sort, it would be due to a faulty battery. The damn thing is wrapped in ceramic, it might be a bit uncomfortable to the touch but I'd be incredibly surprised to see the heat coming off of the unit cause a fire. I mean, if you left it by a gas tank, that would be different. Cera falling out of your pocket on the couch probably won't burn down the neighborhood, maybe just a disappointed feeling when you go to use it and realize the battery is drained.

 

[Nucleosynthesis]

I agree, they should not be. The sad reality is they definitely are a big concern in the real world. No Lawyer worth having would let you think otherwise. No competent CEO would ignore such exposure of his company and investors.

Everyone knows hot coffee from McDonalds is hot, right? Such disclaimers are at best marginally useful. They were written by lawyers, they can be undone by more motivated lawyers. And are every day.

Unfortunately, I am a lawyer. Blech.

Click-through terms are generally held to be enforceable. There are certain steps that they could take to increase that likelihood - e.g., adding an unchecked check box next to the "By adding this product to your cart, you agree to our Terms and Conditions" language (to avoid the issue of someone arguing that it wasn't reasonable to see the agreement to the T&C).

The risk comes from non-customers suing (those who aren't bound to the waiver). That's where we'd be here arguing all day about whether TET's re-design maintains the utility of the product while reducing the risk of injury. IMO, at the end of the day, the design change probably does not substantively reduce the risk of injury, so i'd rather see them focus on making a product that people want to buy.

You're probably right about the battery idea though. Might go with that.

 

[PB88123]

I don't want losing a pin to cause my $500 vape to become inoperable.)
I'll probably wait it out and see what they come up with, but this actually might make me return the unit.

The pin being in causes the Cera to not turn on. I would most likely take the pin out and never use it.

The only reason I would want a pin is to turn the device on or off. Say it is on my desk and I go for an oil hit. I can pick the Cera up and turn it on all in one motion.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Once the toggle switches come in, maybe the heating element in the e-liquid core is able to sustain a constant perfect temperature for always heating the e-liquid? It would be more like a cigarette. You turn it on and it creates vapor, the user takes a drag and when not taking a hit vapor continues to produce?

A good idea, but let me ask you this... have you ever tasted "burned" PG/VG? It's far from what I would want out of any juice. IMO the on-demand feature of an e-cig is a huge selling point to me. Turn it on for a quick few sips, throw it in your pocket. Chain a bunch of hits, drop or two here or there if you're rocking a drip-tip, keep on truckin' and put it away. The quick heat up and cool down helps preserve flavor by only vaporizing the amount that you want and keeping the rest "clean." This doesn't really apply to analogues (cigarettes) because you're not continually heating the same bit of tobacco (in this case the same bit of juice), when you take a drag, the cherry advances onto un-burned tobacco. Likewise, I prefer to heat up only enough for what I would take in one puff. Just my experience.

 

[filteredhead]

Happy Dart user here, however I can see upgrading to at least one Cera EO cart if somehow my existing 510 type 15W battery wands could be used with it.

Hopefully TET is working on an adapter to fit the CEO to larger sized 510 type battery wands (e.g. designed for 18650/18500/18490/18350). If they are not, not sure who will step up. My CEO order would be in if such an adapter existed.

OF thanks for the picture of your CEO adapter invention 'Dart on steroids' a few pages back. IIRC you did mention earlier that someone would produce the adapter, nice work and very functional. Is that a UFO type mouthpiece inserted at the end of the CEO? Do you think a regular Dart and its std mp would also fit in the CEO?

 

[iamn3ko]

To simply put it it seems to make more sense to put it in to use it and keep it out when not using it.

 

[OF]

Happy Dart user here

Hopefully TET is working on an adapter to fit the CEO to larger sized 510 type battery wands (e.g. designed for 18650/18350). If they are not, not sure who could be. My CEO order would be in if such an adapter existed.

OF thanks for the picture of your CEO adapter invention 'Dart on steroids' a few pages back. IIRC you did mention earlier that someone would produce the adapter, nice work and very functional. Is that a UFO type mouthpiece inserted at the end of the CEO? Do you think a regular Dart and its std mp would also fit in the CEO?

First off, Howdy! Welcome to the fun. I don't mean to start out with a quibble with the new guy, but IMO all DART users are happy DART users.....or their technique or extract need work.....

I hope TV gets interesting in quickly producing adapters, but being a Capitalist at heart I'm confident the idea is so useful demand will make adapters happen if it's realistic. I'm sure you're not alone, IMO if they made adapters they'd sell a bunch of Cera carts to go with them.

You're welcome for the photo. I very seldom post photos (note the grief my bud Stu rushed to pile on......and the number of 'likes' he got for it......). In fact it took me months to finally get around to repairing the dead computer that was keeping the password for Imageshack from me. But the idea is too cool to keep to yourself (and it works so well it turns out). Just holding it makes guys faces light up.

No, that's a standard drip tip there (large bore even). No oil issues in the airpath. I think there's enough room in there for the stand alone UFO (I'll try to remember to ask Tim next time I'm in), but the normal DART tip is going to be too long, the cavity is not very deep.

Unfortunately, I am a lawyer. Blech.

Click-through terms are generally held to be enforceable.

The risk comes from non-customers suing (those who aren't bound to the waiver).

IMO, at the end of the day, the design change probably does not substantively reduce the risk of injury, so i'd rather see them focus on making a product that people want to buy.

Nothing really wrong with Lawyers as a group (any more than any group of folks I guess?), it's what the individuals do. It's hard to find fault with a guy giving free legal support to low income tenants trying to get decent living conditions from big city Slum Lords (as the son of a good friend actually does).....others I can pass on.

Otherwise, I agree. Click throughs are more useful than box top licenses but the rub comes from proving the other fellow read and agreed (not all will have as you point out). A guy in a 'set up' is sure to be in that group. And as you know, juries are always a roll of the dice in a game where the stakes are high indeed (for one party). Best avoided.

I agree it does not reduce risks much (hey, they were almost non existent before....) but that's not the point is it? Isn't the point that 'you knew that assembly was a risk to my innocent client (what other kind is there?) and yet you......' is the real danger we're trying to avoid here? I'm not sure, but that's my guess.

I agree, focus on the product we want to buy is the highest goal. IMO that's exactly what TV did. They listened to all our wishes, went away, and made it all happen. We got everything on the list we asked for near as I can tell? Nobody I know asked for two switches, we wanted latching and were not bashful about it. I'm confident we'll ultimately get that latching part too.

Perhaps if demand is big enough, supply will once again rise to fill it?

Thanks for the thoughts.

To simply put it it seems to make more sense to put it in to use it and keep it out when not using it.

My thought as well, but that requires a stop for the battery (otherwise the spring pushes it up and contact is made). That happened with the slide because there's an insulating shoulder on the shaft (which of course isn't there if removed). And it reopens the 'flat top/button top' deal all over. Flat tops don't work. The insulating pin allows for both flat and button top batteries.

Also there was some chatter about that being basically a key then and loosing the key would prevent use unlike the alternative which still allows you to use it.

OF

 

[YeeeBuddy]

I most likely wont even use the safety pin, at least if people lose it they wont have a useless cera. I hope if enough people bitch about it they will make a on/off one like the original that we can buy.

 

[filteredhead]

First off, Howdy! Welcome to the fun. I don't mean to start out with a quibble with the new guy, but IMO all DART users are happy DART users.....or their technique or extract need work.....

I hope TV gets interesting in quickly producing adapters, but being a Capitalist at heart I'm confident the idea is so useful demand will make adapters happen if it's realistic. I'm sure you're not alone, IMO if they made adapters they'd sell a bunch of Cera carts to go with them.

You're welcome for the photo. I very seldom post photos (note the grief my bud Stu rushed to pile on......and the number of 'likes' he got for it......). In fact it took me months to finally get around to repairing the dead computer that was keeping the password for Imageshack from me. But the idea is too cool to keep to yourself (and it works so well it turns out). Just holding it makes guys faces light up.

No, that's a standard drip tip there (large bore even). No oil issues in the airpath. I think there's enough room in there for the stand alone UFO (I'll try to remember to ask Tim next time I'm in), but the normal DART tip is going to be too long, the cavity is not very deep.

Yes happy DART user and hopefully will also be a happy CEO user someday. For now I exercise good technique tips shared in the Rev/D threads and have access to clean concentrates, Darting up and down the sidelines for now.

Perfect, thanks again for the details about fitting dart-tip and mouthpieces on to the Cera oil cart. I too hold the opinion that TET would sell more CEO carts if they were to offer adapters for wider battery wands that use 510 and 601 threads.

 

[green2brown]

If anyone wants to try, take a Sonicare toothbrush in your hand or something similar in size and weight to the Cera. Now practice pressing the bottom of it with the same hand you're holding it with as if there's a button to be pressed. It may not be AS intuitive or comfortable as pressing a switch higher up on the side, but it is still incredibly simple to do with minimal coordination. I just can't see something so small being a deal breaker. Yes we had hopes for a secondary switch to power on the unit. But really? Only having one switch isn't enough?

 

[smokum]

'To ME' the 2nd switch was an important feature for the e-liquid use, and a 'convenience' for the EO.

I cancelled my order (for now), mostly because I was expecting what was being portrayed at the time of purchase. Doesn't mean I'm still not interested in the CERA, but rather I want to know exactly what I'm paying for considering I had chose ALL the cores & in Ti which is a considerable investment.

Hopefully I'm proven to have made a dumb move, but time will tell once the vid reviews of what is actually being sold and its use start hitting the forum and I can make an 'informed' purchase, rather than be disappointed in what was expected.

Let the fun begin !

 

[ogcook]

'To ME' the 2nd switch was an important feature for the e-liquid use, and a 'convenience' for the EO.
I cancelled my order (for now), mostly because I was expecting what was being portrayed at the time of purchase. Doesn't mean I'm still not interested in the CERA, but rather I want to know exactly what I'm paying for considering I had chose ALL the cores & in Ti which is a considerable investment.
Let the fun begin !

I'm almost feeling the same, but I figure I probably have another month at least until my preorder finally ships so I have time to see what's going on before I cancel. I just emailed them regarding this issue. (Yes I'm calling it an ISSUE.) So hopefully we can actually get an update on what product we're buying. I appreciate the honestly and updates we have gotten, it just really bothers me that people who may have pre-ordered and not kept up over here would still know nothing and will receive a near completely different unit than they ordered.

 

[mmenzie]

another reason i do not do "pre-orders" anymore. i am currently interested in 3 vapes right now and 2 are in "pre-order" and one is still in development and no pre-order announced (which happens to be the one i am most excited about). after my last pre-order disaster i learned i am not the kind of person that can handle it. i need to wait for the product to come out and be used by "real" people and reviewed before i buy now. only crappy part about this process..... i may lose out on a big discount or other freebies that the manufacturer will give out to pre-orders only.

 

[arrr]

another reason i do not do "pre-orders" anymore. i am currently interested in 3 vapes right now and 2 are in "pre-order" and one is still in development and no pre-order announced (which happens to be the one i am most excited about). after my last pre-order disaster i learned i am not the kind of person that can handle it. i need to wait for the product to come out and be used by "real" people and reviewed before i buy now. only crappy part about this process..... i may lose out on a big discount or other freebies that the manufacturer will give out to pre-orders only.

what 3 vaps are you considering?

 

[havealight101]

OF, how is that epoxy holding up?

 

[mmenzie]

what 3 vaps are you considering?

i don't want to derail this thread so i will answer this here once and any other questions like this i would rather get a PM BUT.... i am looking at this one (the Cera LL), the INH XP, and the one i am most interested in is the Ascent by DaVinci

 

[green2brown]

'To ME' the 2nd switch was an important feature for the e-liquid use, and a 'convenience' for the EO.

I cancelled my order (for now), mostly because I was expecting what was being portrayed at the time of purchase. Doesn't mean I'm still not interested in the CERA, but rather I want to know exactly what I'm paying for considering I had chose ALL the cores & in Ti which is a considerable investment.

Hopefully I'm proven to have made a dumb move, but time will tell once the vid reviews of what is actually being sold and its use start hitting the forum and I can make an 'informed' purchase, rather than be disappointed in what was expected.

Let the fun begin !

I'd think the momentary switch will work just as well. It's a kill switch in itself - just let go.

 

[Puffers]

What if instead of the 2nd switch going all the way through so it can accidentally get turned on. It was a latching switch that would sit flush to cera when off and pop out when engaged for power? That way it won't accidentally get hit and turned on, being recessed into the body......?

 

[Dreamerr]

If anyone wants to try, take a Sonicare toothbrush in your hand or something similar in size and weight to the Cera. Now practice pressing the bottom of it with the same hand you're holding it with as if there's a button to be pressed. It may not be AS intuitive or comfortable as pressing a switch higher up on the side, but it is still incredibly simple to do with minimal coordination. I just can't see something so small being a deal breaker. Yes we had hopes for a secondary switch to power on the unit. But really? Only having one switch isn't enough?

It can matter cause this is touted as a medical device. Some have dexterity issues and more. There are many reasons a medical patient will not be able to use that button with one hand and even have trouble with two.

 

[VapeStL]

Sounds to me like the current pin/switch design is gonna operate like a live grenade. Pull the pin & watch out!!

 

[the ob]

Question.

So are the units all sold out? And are they redesigning it in the meantime? I tried to wade my way through, but could not get the correct information. I did check the site as well.

 

[Dreamerr]

Someone just said a few posts or pages ago that it still is letting you on site to do pre-sale. That would make me think that they didn't sell out the initial 500 I believe it was.

 

[PB88123]

Question.

So are the units all sold out? And are they redesigning it in the meantime? I tried to wade my way through, but could not get the correct information. I did check the site as well.

They are still accepting pre-orders. It's looking like next month for a shipping date if you order today. They are in the process of cutting and cooking the ceramic and making a bunch of other parts. The goal is to get ahead of the orders so people can order and get a shipping notice right away.

They are not redesigning. I look at it as final touches / minor tweaks. The only things that changed since we first saw the Cera is the side switch does not turn the device on or off. You must take the side pin out for the device to turn on (so most people won't even use the pin and instead just the bottom switch to turn it on and off).

Current orders are shipping with different batteries and a different bottom switch. If you ordered 1 battery you get 2 of the 2250's. If you ordered 2 batteries you get 3 of the 2250's. If you want you can ship them back to TV and they will ship you the battery you originally ordered. The difference is the 2900's take about 30 seconds for herb and 20 seconds for oil to warm up. The 2250's warm up quicker but don't last as long as the 2900's.

The switch on the bottom will eventually be a latch. Current orders get a switch you have to keep pushing to keep the device on. If your order ships before the latching switch is in then TV will mail you the latching ship when it comes in and you keep both.