The Vape Pen - reviewed

[aero18]

No big deal. You mentioned glycerine in the thread : ""Propylene glycol, not glycerine. Both use guy's units are using propylene glycol." I didn't say you recommended it or anything, just that you mentioned it. True.

And as a result of that, I mentioned that no one should use glycerin because it can be dangerous.I was just making a side comment on glycerin after you mentioned it. Then Trixer asked who mentioned glycerin, and I wrote that you did.
Is there a problem with that? or ??

DeepFried actually accused Trixer of using glycerin and I was replying to that. No problemos, just thought that you implied that I suggested Trixer of using it or what not.

All's good.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

You have to understand, you are mixing potentially illegal and legal aspects. I am talking to you from a legal aspect only.

Such as using while you work is most likely not legal and/or against the business/company policy in many situations regardless of prescription. Also you should understand that much of the wording being discussed in other states for medical weed is more stringently defined though not finalized regarding what conditions one can obtain a prescription for medical weed and I did mention the social aspect for a reason to be discreet. Add on the aspect you defend the word medical besides trying to explain it nor do you make attempt to determine if the full spectrum of the vape pen product is identical to weed smoke.

You very well may find that chronic pain may not be enough to get a prescription in the future and/or a more stringent analysis before they allow the prescription. While other states are going forward in their discussions with medical weed it is pretty much a different animal than what exists such as in California, in fact, I see California being the poster child for how not to do medical weed.

I absolutely disagree with you on about medically ill patients typically combusting or using a single temperature vaporizer. Mostly the people I deal with do not smoke cigarettes and the thought of smoking appalls them so except for a few people, smoking is not a wanted option. I know about the need for temperature variety due to witnessing it myself.

Like I said, I am talking about medically ill people who are not typically weed smokers, hence them learning about these things in a group or a friend of a friend versus being weed street smart so to speak. If you think this population is small, you are incorrect.

What I would like to see you find some solid information about what is in the make up of the vapor/mist. Specifically if it does hit the full spectrum similar to a smoking or does it simply hit the lower spectrum of the vaping range. If you cannot answer that I would not use the word medical for the reasons which I already stated. I look forward to your follow up.

If it does hit the full spectrum than its a mute issue.

Not sure exactly what you mean by full spectrum. I know that the liquid meds as the web site calls them, do contain the full spectrum of cannabis, or so they say: the cannibinoids, the thc, etc.

I'm not officially representing the Vape-Pen company so I can't speak to what's legal or what is not in their wording, etc. I know they do have an attorney on retainer, though, so I assume they know what they are doing.

You can disagree with me but I can only report that the people I know and observe who use medical marijuana for legitimate medical reasons, mostly combust. I think if you did a survey here in California of all MMJ patients you will find that they do mostly combust.

Now, if you are saying that only terminally ill or cancer patients etc. truly qualify as MMJ users, then that's your definition but not currently the definition under the law here.

I am talking about the "average" MMJ patient here in L.A. who uses MMJ for things like depression, chronic pain, migraines, etc.. While you or others may not think those people - like myself - should qualify or do qualify to be called an MMJ patient, again, I respectfully disagree. I know it helps me with my medical problems. Period. Others I know feel the same. Doctors here seem to agree with me and with the law. MMJ is not and should not be just for "seriously" ill patients, meaning those with cancer, AIDS, dying people, etc. IMHO. And in the opinion of the current law as it is written. As it is written, doctors are the ones who decide whether or not a patient is a medical marijuana patient. So by that definition there are a lot of MMJ patients that do not meet your narrow definition.

Again, your witnessing the need for temperature variety relates to the patients you are working with or know. That does not mean that those are the only valid MMJ patients. My friends and I and many others are also valid MMJ patients. I think it's ridiculous to say that one should not be able to be considered a legal MMJ patient because one got the recommendation of MMJ for chronic pain, for example. The medical studies indicate it works for chronic pain and my experience does too, as does the experience of others, as I say, including doctors. Let me share something with you: I had trouble sleeping at night due to chronic shoulder pain, probably from severe inflammation, maybe arthritis, even the MD's don't know exactly what is causing it but I was in 3 car accidents where my neck and shoulders were impacted. I had chronic pain day in and day out, night and day. The MMJ is helping. The Vape-Pen is helping. That's a fact. So I'm a legit MMJ patient using it for a legit reason.

I would oppose any bill that did not allow MMJ to be used for chronic pain and other maladies that can be successfully treated with MMJ (migraines, arthritis, chroic pain, depression, etc.)

 

[Beezleb]

You pointed out "do contain the full spectrum of cannabis" in answering my issue, thank you. Best of luck and im with you on the laws but I ask you to pay attention to the movements going on other states, its still quite an uphill battle.

I suppose what I am really saying that "certain medical needs" people require a wider spectrum of the plant and vaping at lower temperatures reduces the effects. This is an issue potentially in some vaporizers and not in others. My concern was these people who are often suffering greatly continue to suffer due to inability to get the correct vapor for their need and then give it up and that person goes on without the benefit they could potentially obtain. but its a mute point as you stated where they say its the full spectrum so my issue is removed.

Thank you.

 

[Trixer]

Ok something I need to debunk right here and now, is "operating temperatures" In this case you dont nessecarly have to vaporize the active chemical, as much as you need to vaporize its medium. Enough of what your trying to get will come with the vapor, plus with a rapid amount of tempature change, say from 0 degrees to so enough to vap thc, your going ot end up vaping all the medium inbetween that, in a solution with very few active ingredients, and most of which what you want vaped anyways, and the fact that its being consumed ultra quickly with no real need to decay or (oxidize) before its consumed, I can not in the world think why a higher tempature would make a diffrence here.

Common sense would dictate that this is most likely the same product, or so close to the same product that using the orginal has no forseeable changes, or the changes made to the product wouldnt really make enough of an effect to matter in the long run.

However congratulations on finding a very awesome vaper, the product is extremely awesome and if you know some people at the company site, recomend to them that they offer more complete information to whats going on, because most of the people who are going to stumble across their site are probally going to be pretty smart...

Now only if I could learn to speel.

 

[Beezleb]

I think I understand Trixer, thank you.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

Thanks for the comments.

I want to add something to my review of the Vape-Pen.
The more I use it I realize how different it is from using a vaporizer like the Vapor Genie or the Volcano. (Though I'd say it's closer to the Volcano than the Vapor Genie.)

What I am talking about here is "effects", not function.

I find that the Vape-Pen has a very different effect than my Vapor Genie for example. For one, the hits you get from each puff or series of quick puffs is smaller than the big hit one normally gets from a vaporizer, and certainly smaller than the average combustion hit.

So if you are using it to maintain a level of medication, you will want to use it more often. Whereas I might just vaporize one big hit with the Vapor Genie and that will last me for 30 min. to an hour, with the Vape-Pen, I will hit it at least 3 times during that same time period, because it gives smaller hits. Or I can take 3-4 hits off it instead of one.

Also, the effect itself is different. I cannot explain what I mean other than saying perhaps it's a "cleaner" feeling, I don't feel as "jagged" as I do from vaporizing or from combusting. I think for people medicating who need to function during the day while medicating, this could be a very good thing. For me it's good because sometimes I just want to relax a little or relieve a little pain from a headache or neck ache, but don't want to get too "high". The Vape-Pen seems really good for this.

And you can get pretty strong effects from it, but you'll have to take more than a couple of hits to get there. All I can really say is that it's not the same as taking a hit from the Vaporizers I've tried. So I would not really recommend it for anyone looking to get "ripped". Taking bit hits from a vaporizer will be better for that purpose.

But taking it to a concert or movie or taking a puff here and there during the day to give you a bit of a medication is ideal. It's really not meant to replace a home vaporizer or to use to get ripped like some like to do. (And I'm not saying you can't get ripped with it, I think you can, but it's just not as efficient for that purpose as other vaporizers, imho.) Like I said in my original post, it is yet another choice, in the arsental of vaporizers, which all have their own attributes, disadvantages and advantages.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

from my understanding this does not vaporize THC how people might think. What it is doing is vaporizing the liquid containing the THC. It is not vaporizing the THC.
All this product is doing is taking a liquid and moving it too a vapor state. Which just happens too contain THC.
too actually be considered on the same level as other vaporizers it would have too vaporize the MJ without the benefit of being a liquid suspension. It is an atomizer.
I mean yes it does produce vapor, but it is a vapor of a different sort.
vapor from all the vapes we are used too are pretty much just THC from the MJ.
what your breathing in with this product is THC and whatever liquid it was suspended in. And it will not work without a liquid too be suspended in

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

from my understanding this does not vaporize THC how people might think. What it is doing is vaporizing the liquid containing the THC. It is not in fact vaporizing the THC.
All this product is doing is taking a liquid and moving it too a vapor state. Which just happens too contain THC.
too actually be considered on the same level as other vaporizers it would have too vaporize the MJ without the benefit of being a liquid suspension. It is an atomizer.
I mean yes it does produce vapor, but it is a vapor of a different sort.

You are correct that it is not exactly a vaporizer. It creates a "vapor" but it is an atomizer. I believe I stated that in the original post. If not, I meant to.

However, it does not just contain THC, it contains the WHOLE herb and all it's components. As I understand it, that was the challenge of creating the liquid herb, to keep all the components of the cannabis.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

could you imagine throwing that formula into a fog machine that is glycol based.. bet that would be fun

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

Good idea! I'll see if I can get them to throw a party to introduce the Vape-Pen to FC members!

 

[Beezleb]

Thats what I understood from Trixers post. I was mistaken in thinking it was vaporizing as similar to vaporizer like a DBV or PD with the low temperature aspect stirring my question which is mute since it is a full spectrum so to speak delivery system.

Only downside I see is having to buy a solution but would love to see a home created solution that would work.

I would say if I could get the liquid I would be interested in the pen but as it is very little of the population can get access to the product. If it does do what it claims, then I can see it as viable method and one that would appeal to many seriously ill medical users that may be better than a traditional vaporizer for some so my interest is peaked but would have to wait until my state becomes more progressive.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

from my understanding this does not vaporize THC how people might think. What it is doing is vaporizing the liquid containing the THC. It is not in fact vaporizing the THC.
All this product is doing is taking a liquid and moving it too a vapor state. Which just happens too contain THC.
too actually be considered on the same level as other vaporizers it would have too vaporize the MJ without the benefit of being a liquid suspension. It is an atomizer.
I mean yes it does produce vapor, but it is a vapor of a different sort.

You are correct that it is not exactly a vaporizer. It creates a "vapor" but it is an atomizer. I believe I stated that in the original post. If not, I meant to.

However, it does not just contain THC, it contains the WHOLE herb and all it's components. As I understand it, that was the challenge of creating the liquid herb, to keep all the components of the cannabis.

so by "all it's components" you mean even including the stuff that normally wouldn't be inside what you inhale from a typical vaporizer? there are still some chemicals that stay in the plant material after you vape because they have different vape temp than THC, one that normally come out once you begin too combust. using your statement it sounds like there might be a bit more than I want too inhale into my lungs.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

Good idea! I'll see if I can get them to throw a party to introduce the Vape-Pen to FC members!

i cant even imagine how much liquid it would take and how much MJ would be needed too make that much liquid.

 

[Trixer]

Thats what I understood from Trixers post. I was mistaken in thinking it was vaporizing as similar to vaporizer like a DBV or PD with the low temperature aspect stirring my question which is mute since it is a full spectrum so to speak delivery system.

Only downside I see is having to buy a solution but would love to see a home created solution that would work.

I would say if I could get the liquid I would be interested in the pen but as it is very little of the population can get access to the product. If it does do what it claims, then I can see it as viable method and one that would appeal to many seriously ill medical users that may be better than a traditional vaporizer for some so my interest is peaked but would have to wait until my state becomes more progressive.

Hey bud see one of my former posts in this thread, it details a way to make your own solution

Its a pretty easy and be pretty rewarding... Just remember to be safe and smart!


Also one thing to remember is in this case, there isn't to much of a difference between the atomizer and a vaporizer, the reason for that is whats happening in this device is that the heat isnt directly causing your mist, when you suck on the device the air coming in is super heated and then when it passes through the wick that holds the solution the heat causes it to atomize instead of vaporize....

 

[Purple-Days]

I see the use of the word Atomizer. What does it mean?

Is it a pseudo-word? Like... hypo-alergenic? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoallergenic

Look up atomizer and let us know what it means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomizer

Just want a clarification. Not being a smart ass. Give us a reference or grounding for the word.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

it is a device that is used too take a liquid and turn it into tiny particles...

pretty much boiling a liquid so that it forms the smallest particle it can in a form of a vapor cloud.... like Fog....
so you take a known liquid figure out a way too add something too it, in this case THC, or nicotine. Then you boil the liquid. Inhale the liquid as it vaporizes. there are several ways too cause it too boil, either by a mechanical heat source or blasting the liquid at high pressure though a small nozzle.

similar too how a fog machine makes fog.

this device would use a small heater too heat air that passes through the cartridge... kinda similar too how most vapes we are used too work. Except this one is designed too work with a liquid and turn it into something that can be inhaled.
when speaking atomizers I believe it is in reference too turning a liquid into a vapor. As opposed too extracting oils by turning them into vapor as seen with vaporizers.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

it is a device that is used too take a liquid and turn it into tiny particles...

pretty much boiling a liquid so that it forms the smallest particle it can in a form of a vapor cloud.... like Fog....
so you take a known liquid figure out a way too add something too it, in this case THC, or nicotine. Then you boil the liquid. Inhale the liquid as it vaporizes. there are several ways too cause it too boil, either by a mechanical heat source or blasting the liquid at high pressure though a small nozzle.

similar too how a fog machine makes fog.

this device would use a small heater too heat air that passes through the cartridge... kinda similar too how most vapes we are used too work. Except this one is designed too work with a liquid and turn it into something that can be inhaled.
when speaking atomizers I believe it is in reference too turning a liquid into a vapor. As opposed too extracting oils by turning them into vapor as seen with vaporizers.

I'm no scientist but it sounds like what Devo said is right.

 

[vtac]

Here's a good explanation of ecig atomizers:

The Atomiser

This is where the magic happens, this is where the vapour is produced. Its called an atomiser by the trade although it is not in a strict sense. The atomiser just consists of a coil of wires wrapped around some wick material housed in a ceramic cup. Around the cup and in an arch over the top of the coil is wire mesh, you can see the mesh poking out the bottom in the first pic, it and the coil is recessed in the body in the second. The mesh receives the juice (general term for e-cig fluid) through capillary action from the cartridge, when power is applied to
the coil either through taking a drag or via a manual button it heats up, this causes the juice to vaporise into microscopic droplets of liquid so small they appear as smoke.

Similar to commercial fog machines. Propylene glycol seems to be key.

The most common way a fog machine works in professional situations, is by heating a mixture of glycol and water to create a fog-like steam. The fog machine is comprised of a heat exchanger, a pump, and a tank. The heat exchanger is an enclosed area with an input hole and a small output nozzle.

The exchanger heats up to about 400 degrees Fahrenheit (205 Celsius), and then the pump draws the glycol-water mixture from the tank, and sprays it into the heated unit. The mixture then turns into steam, and is forced out of the nozzle on the front of the fog machine. When the steam makes contact with the relatively cool air outside, it condenses somewhat and turns into fog. This fog is still hotter than the outside air, so it rises up towards the ceiling, creating billowing clouds.

A second type of professional fog machine works in a similar manner to the more common heat-exchange variety. Instead of relying on heat, however, this type of fog machine atomizes the fluid and sends it into the air. Usually the particles created by an atomizing fog machine are much smaller than those using heat, and may not even be obviously visible to the naked eye, instead creating a sort of haze all around for light to reflect off of. This type of fog machine tends to rely more on oil-based liquids, without the high water content of heat-based fog machines.

From what I gather, the vape-pen's major differences to a standard ecig are: stainless steel atomizer/internals instead of brass, and a lower temp on the coil. Is this correct?

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle what the Vape-pen people have put together. On the contrary. I think most of the people here just want to know how it works on a basic level, and using standard ecigs as a point of reference is helpful in understanding.

Would also be cool to hear more about the liquid and the tek used. Are the dispensaries making it?

Moe?

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

The medical marijuana dispensaries are beginning to carry the liquid herb. Right now there are only a couple of dispensaries carrying it, to my knowledge. I know of 1 for sure, in Venice. I am confident more will be carrying it within the next few months and I'm pretty sure there is going to be a Master Kush and Granddaddy Purple formula available as well as the Blue Dream liquids.

From what I have gathered, you are correct that the Vape-Pen uses stainless steel and a lower temperature in the heater. Not sure what other differences there are. I'm not much of a scientist type, and since I am not selling it, I have not learned ALL the info on it. (If it was my job, I'd put more effort into learning all I could so I could answer as many questions as I could about it.)

 

[Purple-Days]

"Its called an atomiser by the trade although it is not in a strict sense."

So is it a fancy name for vaporizer? Since we are not talking about high pressure injection into a nozzle we can eliminate that 'atomizer' definition. And since we are talking boiling a liquid, to make vapor, how is this not a vaporizer? Maybe the e-cig folks wanted to dis-associate themselves from the 'vaporizer' word... But this is vaporization, isn't it?

 

[nicelytoasted]

Sounds more like a nebulizer to me (to confuse things even more) ...

 

[Hippie Dickie]

so it is vaporizing a low temperature liquid to create an atomized fog of the special THC brew -- more of a moleculizer than an atomizer.

 

[Trixer]

Ok, one thing you guys need to keep in mind is an atomizer does not have to heat a liquid a spray bottle is considered an atomizer, also something like an inhaler would be your most common atomizer.

In the case of our vape pen, heat is important in knocking particles free from the wick (in this case only by passing electricity through it to both heat it up, and knock it free from the wick)

An atomizer is anything that takes liquid and turns it into a mist of some sort, if you really think about it there is a lot of atomizers in ones life, like the sprayer on your wind shield wipers

One thing that I want you guys using this to understand, even more so if your using this for medical applications, is that this thing does not really "vape" like you are used to understanding the word vape. If you are interested in this product I would really call them and see what kind of information they can give, if the person on the phone is knowledgeable and able to answer questions quickly and detailed, then its probably a good company and their word is true.

 

[Purple-Days]

As I said , since there is no pressure and no veturi we can eliminate that from our discussion. This device uses heat, not pressure.

Here is a definition of atomizer/ atomiser :
n. 1. a dispenser that turns a liquid (such as perfume) into a fine spray.
another:
n. A device for converting a substance, especially a perfume or medicine, to a fine spray.

nebulize (nby-lz)
tr.v. nebulized, nebulizing, nebulizes
1. To convert (a liquid) to a fine spray; atomize.
2. To treat with a medicated spray.

These definitions seem to not apply to to a device that uses heat to vaporize the transport substance.

I see that it uses a lower temp than a traditional vaporizer. But, temp has little to do with the physics of the thing. It is vaporizing a transport substance, in this case glycol (?) to administer THC or Nicotine or whatever.

What about calling it a Glycolizer ???

 

[Survivalism]

The people on the e-cigarette forum were pushing to get the name changed from e-cigarette to personal vaporizer last time i checked, which was quite a long time ago.