The State Of Vaping - A True Vape Critic Question

[Abysmal Vapor]

@jardi Hope we all live to see it ..
It is also much more safer blacking out/collapsing on your wife's tits ,rather than your glass pipe + it kind-a saves some distance between the bed and the vape station.

 

[Ramahs]

I know this is a bit far stretched,but how about ECO friendly vaporizers, than can harness power from nature

What that makes me think of is heating vapes like Dynavap, Vapman, Lotus, etc., with a quality magnifying glass. Anyone have a good real-glass magnifying glass that has tried it to see if it's efficient enough to be a viable method? I mean, if it took way too long between hits, it would get annoying.

I own Dynavap vaporizers, but I don't own a good magnifying glass. Never tried it.

@Ramahs, that just breaks my heart. That is a very sad thing.

Ha ha ha. I could go on for days with stories. But that was a long time ago. Getting close to 20 years ago since I left.

I'm lucky that family all left within a year or two of me, because I have friends who got out around the year I did who still have parents, siblings, or children still there that they are still out of touch with.

Life's amazing, but unfortunately too short, and there is no guarantee it's gonna be fair. It is what it is. Have fun.
There's still lots to inspire and enjoy

And, always question everything .
The grave will supply plenty of time for silence, eventually ....but not yet

 

[P.A.M.]

@Abysmal Vapor

What that makes me think of is heating vapes like Dynavap, Vapman, Lotus, etc., with a quality magnifying glass. Anyone have a good real-glass magnifying glass that has tried it to see if it's efficient enough to be a viable method? I mean, if it took way too long between hits, it would get annoying

Oh , you guys mean like The Sun Token ?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

nothing new and exciting

well, you know, i'm an old fucker now (at 71), so new and exciting is in the mind of the beholder. All i need is all glass and temperature control … there is no need for something different, i.e. different is not better. my vape is as good as it needs to be.

love the apparent convenience of the pods, but i have done enough extractions to not trust any commercial extractor. but, then again, i only eat real food, not processed stuff.

so flower (from a known organic grower) for the win! and an all glass vaporizer for the win! pretty sweet going through life this way.

 

[Ramahs]

@Abysmal Vapor



Oh , you guys mean like The Sun Token ?

Oh, hell no! I've known about that one for some time. It's garbage.

It's not even a vaporizer either. It's a combustion pipe.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I imagine one can successfully heat a Vaporgenie(glass version will be best ) with a lens big enough. but think angle will be pretty uncomfortable to work with maybe assistant from someone else or mounted on a stand .
Pretty similar to what the Solarizer was back in the days,but it has to be convection instead of condiction. Imagine it can be still good enough for concentrates even as it is,sadly info is almost nowhere to be found let alone buyingplace.

 

[YaMon]

I suspect one of these would work to heat a VapCap

https://store.sundancesolar.com/solar-fire-starter-solar-lighter-survival-tool/

 

[stickstones]

What’s boring is the sea of same-tech vapes that keep flowing in. But I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of vaping cannabis. We don’t truly understand shit yet, and most of us operate within the same temp band with a range of no more than 80F, with no change in a slew of other variables. Lately I’ve been dreaming of a vape station with full control over variables we don’t even consider most of the time.

 

[Ramahs]

What’s boring is the sea of same-tech vapes that keep flowing in. But I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of vaping cannabis. We don’t truly understand shit yet, and most of us operate within the same temp band with a range of no more than 80F, with no change in a slew of other variables. Lately I’ve been dreaming of a vape station with full control over variables we don’t even consider most of the time.

Care to elaborate?

 

[P.A.M.]

Care to elaborate?

I can't answer for @stickstones , I'd like to hear more too.

I do share his opinion in a sense , lately, with my
Dry herb iHeat 510 cartridge , it's got a very open air flow, I found out I'm able to Vape at higher then recommended (for risk of combustion ) by doing quick draws at faster enough draw speed . My herb is not super fine nor usually super dry either.

Still , I'm used to Vape at typical temperature most people do , or as far as my butane or unregulated battery portables let me .

Kicking the iHeat in high speed utilizing that fast air flow and a good slow draw . I'm able to get 12+( first 2-3 no visible vapor , rest super visible ) with no charring , super even roasting .
Being at higher then normal "temps" I stur every few draws and rotoate the stem abit between between draws to prevent early charring or combustion. . I am cardeul every step of the way ... but... them super high watts Really bring out the potency of the herb , I've tried with different strains , same effect .

So yeah, maybe there are ways to explore on how to control higher heat perhaps prior it hits the herb and so on , with air flows and so on .

Problem is not everybody draws at same speed , etc, seems Speed is more important in vaping then in combustion , which I think is where many fail to like vaporizing all together and revert back to combustion . It's maybe why so many people like so many diffenret vapes because we each found vapes we know how to hit correctly , haha. Or found how to or now know from experience , etc... and perhaps it's why some are good with what they have because it takes them where they need to be already. Also budget comes into play , not everyone can afford to try many vapes. Reading even if extensively only takes you so far . That too with more experience one can better know what he/she might like or not. For those in rural areas in my case , not many people around Vape dry herb, lol..can't try different vapes easily.

Loving all responses and answers , the State of vaping looks great !

 

[Ramahs]

I can't answer for @stickstones , I'd like to hear more too.

I do share his opinion in a sense , lately, with my
Dry herb iHeat 510 cartridge , it's got a very open air flow, I found out I'm able to Vape at higher then recommended (for risk of combustion ) by doing quick draws at faster enough draw speed . My herb is not super fine nor usually super dry either.

Still , I'm used to Vape at typical temperature most people do , or as far as my butane or unregulated battery portables let me .

Kicking the iHeat in high speed utilizing that fast air flow and a good slow draw . I'm able to get 12+( first 2-3 no visible vapor , rest super visible ) with no charring , super even roasting .
Being at higher then normal "temps" I stur every few draws and rotoate the stem abit between between draws to prevent early charring or combustion. . I am cardeul every step of the way ... but... them super high watts Really bring out the potency of the herb , I've tried with different strains , same effect .

So yeah, maybe there are ways to explore on how to control higher heat perhaps prior it hits the herb and so on , with air flows and so on .

Problem is not everybody draws at same speed , etc, seems Speed is more important in vaping then in combustion , which I think is where many fail to like vaporizing all together and revert back to combustion . It's maybe why so many people like so many diffenret vapes because we each found vapes we know how to hit correctly , haha. Or found how to or now know from experience , etc... and perhaps it's why some are good with what they have because it takes them where they need to be already. Also budget comes into play , not everyone can afford to try many vapes. Reading even if extensively only takes you so far . That too with more experience one can better know what he/she might like or not. For those in rural areas in my case , not many people around Vape dry herb, lol..can't try different vapes easily.

Loving all responses and answers , the State of vaping looks great !

Well, it's normal that you can turn the vape up to a higher temp when you draw faster. The faster you draw, the lower the temperature the herb in the bowl will actually reach. Drawing air faster requires a higher heater-temp to get the actual herb in the bowl to the same temp that you get with a slower draw.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@Ramahs Actually what is most exciting about the TUBO tech and software is that it shoots more watts to compensate your draw rate,and it never overshoots IME and also confirmed by tests with a thermocouple. The wattage can go up 200w for fractions at a time if i give my most olimpic draw on my WP.. If you draw slow/normal it only eats like 20-40w range )..
The idea behind TC software calculating temp based on resistance shifts in the coil is the same like in any other measuring unit that uses a thermocouple . What a termometer does is calculating the shift in restance in the thermocouples head and translates that into C/F.
I get it that there a smaller more convinient to use vaporizers both on the go and at home ,also with better design purity... But performancewise it really feels like it is the edge of what technology can offer in this field nowadays.
Sure you can do that manually with other vaporizers even load them with the TUBO software,but most of them have higher mass heaters,so that kind-a maims the quick responsiveness of the software and also can damage the vape itself cause of the radiated heat. I cannot imagine that master can master the same precision manually as the one that the tubo software presents..,the wattage values supplied change a few times a second,it is humanly impossible to dial changes that faster.
And this all being said on can do perfectly fine with unregulated device relying on jedi senses and even closer with one run into wattage and TC,but even then the temps displayed are just a suggestion,while with tubo software you can tune them to reality using a thermocouple. There isnt a lot of tech needed to get the job done,so i understand perfectly why other prefer the convinience of shape,form etc of other devices.And that is why i think that the future of vaporizing lies mainly of achieving purity of design,sure some extra tech will come in handy,but i think that most of the vaporists are "simple man".

 

[Ramahs]

@Ramahs Actually what is most exciting about the TUBO tech and software is that it shoots more watts to compensate your draw rate,and it never overshoots IME and also confirmed by tests with a thermocouple. The wattage can go up 200w for fractions at a time if i give my most olimpic draw on my WP.. If you draw slow/normal it only eats like 20-40w range )..
The idea behind TC software calculating temp based on resistance shifts in the coil is the same like in any other measuring unit that uses a thermocouple . What a termometer does is calculating the shift in restance in the thermocouples head and translates that into C/F.
I get it that there a smaller more convinient to use vaporizers both on the go and at home ,also with better design purity... But performancewise it really feels like it is the edge of what technology can offer in this field nowadays.
Sure you can do that manually with other vaporizers even load them with the TUBO software,but most of them have higher mass heaters,so that kind-a maims the quick responsiveness of the software and also can damage the vape itself cause of the radiated heat. I cannot imagine that master can master the same precision manually as the one that the tubo software presents..,the wattage values supplied change a few times a second..

To be honest, I prefer manual/mechanical vapes. I like more control over what's going on.

Though, don't get me wrong, the Tubo is one vape I want to get eventually. As much as I usually prefer manual/mechanical vapes, sometimes even I still want a cruiser in some situations.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@Ramahs .. I was just editing my post... to clarify. Why one could never have more control on precision manually.. It is like trying to nail a certain speed with a car.. you can do all the steering and gear shifting you want and feel like you ride the horse,but also some cars have automated controls where you can just nail the speed from the computers setting. Some guys will never like autopilots but others can sure enjoy this feature .
So you definetly have more control on being able to boost speed ,but there is no guarantee then you wont overspeed/ overheat. .
You will understand me better once you get to try a TUBO .. (I recommend TUBOx for home use).

 

[Ramahs]

@Ramahs .. I was just editing my post... to clarify. Why one could never have more control on precision manually.. It is like trying to nail a certain speed with a car.. you can do all the steering and gear shifting you want and feel like you ride the horse,but also some cars have automated controls where you can just nail the speed from the computers setting. Some guys will never like autopilots but others can sure enjoy this feature .
So you definetly have more control on being able to boost speed ,but there is no guarantee then you wont overspeed/ overheat. .
You will understand me better once you get to try a TUBO .. (I recommend TUBOx for home use).

I know exactly what you mean, and I said that I want that preciseness sometimes, in some situations...but not all the time.

I also think you misunderstand what I mean by what I said about more control. Keeping things precise and on temp no matter how fast you draw is not more control, it's less. Yes, having full manual control means that there is a chance of combustion if you screw up riding that line, but that risk is what you pay for full control of the experience.

 

[P.A.M.]

Well, it's normal that you can turn the vape up to a higher temp when you draw faster. The faster you draw, the lower the temperature the herb in the bowl will actually reach. Drawing air faster requires a higher heater-temp to get the actual herb in the bowl to the same temp that you get with a slower draw.

not sure if you are agreeing, disagreeing, trying to discredit or just saying "well d'uh" . Lol

What I was saying is that I'm getting higher using higher then normal temps compared to using regular temps one might be using on a unregulated or preprogrammed device.

How im able to Vape at higher then normal temperature is that the Vape in question as a very open flow (no draw restriction ) . Being so open and hot , drawing fast and short draws helps cool the air enough as it hits the bowl.

Same thing can't be done on unregulated vapes because the heaters aren't geared that high in power . Some preheat longer then my draw is (I only fire button for 3-5seconds and draw an extra few after button release) Same for a vapcap , the load would be spent way before I'm able to achieve the same 10-12draws per session.

Not sure if hotter shorter draws mean more potent then cooler longer draws but sure seems like it . That said , air flow / draw restriction will vary results , not just temp and draw speed

 

[pakalolo]

Same thing can't be done on unregulated vapes because the heaters aren't geared that high in power .

Incorrect. There are unregulated devices out there that can do this. You can preheat certain devices to the point where the load will combust as soon as you pull.

What’s boring is the sea of same-tech vapes that keep flowing in. But I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of vaping cannabis. We don’t truly understand shit yet, and most of us operate within the same temp band with a range of no more than 80F, with no change in a slew of other variables. Lately I’ve been dreaming of a vape station with full control over variables we don’t even consider most of the time.

I don't quite agree. I wrote a post that discusses the variables involved in the How often do you grind? thread. There's a lot more change between loads and even individual hits than most people think, and many of them can't be easily controlled or even controlled at all.

One of the most common misconceptions I see on FC is that one variable or another has way more influence than it really does. This applies to all sorts of things that people obsess about, including grind and temperature. A classic example is the unicorn-chasing for accurate temperature measurement and control. While I agree that we don't truly understand a lot about cannabis, I think it's pretty clear that you just need the temperature to be in the ballpark.

 

[P.A.M.]

Incorrect. There are unregulated devices out there that can do this. You can preheat certain devices to the point where the load will combust as soon as you pull.

Yes , you can definitely combust if you do that @pakalolo

Reason I saying it can't be done on (most) unregulated devices, Including the ones I own , is because using the iHeat at higher then normal watts (think higher then Milaana and LB) I can and do start drawing cold air at the same time I press the button, pressing the button for 3 to 5 seconds max, let go button , finishing my draw.... I can't suck cold air as I pre heat to point of combustion on a unregulated device in 3-5 seconds of button action .I'd be sucking air as the temp slowly rises . slower then my
IHeat at high wattage anyways, thefor not rendering the same effect..

I can't explain how it works but it makes a difference to me. Perhaps it's drawing cold air , followed by a quick jolt of fast hot air that makes the magic happen without combustion . perhaps something else , you guys don't need to believe me for me to know it works

I brought up the example due to someone mentioning he believed there was still room to explore the way we Vaped, that for the most part we all Vape at same temperatures, etc..

Thanks for shimming in

Edit : another reason it would be hard to achieve with an unregulated Vape is that the heater would not be providing the same wattage every hit like my 510 cartridge does.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

I think it's pretty clear that you just need the temperature to be in the ballpark.

and maintain the temperature, during the draw … i like a 1°F ballpark.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

and maintain the temperature, during the draw … i like a 1°F ballpark.

I think that a couple of reasons people cannot appreciate TC precision over unregulated/power regulated are : Most of the TC devices are not function to their best(like the Aromed which has its sensor placed behind the heater near the air inlets) or are a total joke/fake(like the Nereus Nova i recently "reviewed" )and another reason is also having vast experience with the one compared to the other..(unregulated).
I will make once more comparison to autopilots.. Many will hate them,but also very few have experience with really good ones,like those on airplanes.. Where it is paramount to optimize route and fuel consumtion also keeping the human error factor to a minumum. Probably one day there will be technology that will allow to achieve control over technics just by thinking of the settings/results you wanna achieve.
Another think i wanna see in vaporizers of the future is sensing the condition of your material like moisture and deciding the right vaping temp with calculations based on those specs.

 

[pakalolo]

and maintain the temperature, during the draw … i like a 1°F ballpark.

Sure, but the ballpark is a lot bigger than 1°F—a lot bigger.

I think that a couple of reasons people cannot appreciate TC precision over unregulated/power regulated are : Most of the TC devices are not function to their best(like the Aromed which has its sensor placed behind the heater near the air inlets) or are a total joke/fake(like the Nereus Nova i recently "reviewed" )and another reason is also having vast experience with the one compared to the other..(unregulated).
I will make once more comparison to autopilots.. Many will hate them,but also very few have experience with really good ones,like those on airplanes.. Where it is paramount to optimize route and fuel consumtion also keeping the human error factor to a minumum. Probably one day there will be technology that will allow to achieve control over technics just by thinking of the settings/results you wanna achieve.
Another think i wanna see in vaporizers of the future is sensing the condition of your material like moisture and deciding the right vaping temp with calculations based on those specs.

Your last sentence completely undermines everything else you said, but it also goes directly to the point that I made. The condition of your material is one of those variables that is really difficult to keep constant yet it can have a big influence.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@pakalolo I dont see how it undermines it,it is more like a something that might be implemented in the technology in order to achieve what i was talking about.
Autopiloting doesnt mean it cannot take in account current herb conditions ... I am thinking here of true AI technology that does more than just trying to hold values at presets. It would take an account both your habbits and the current conditon of things,why not even suggest experience based on your mood or energy levels..
Also while different herb moisture requires different temps ,i dont see how that would impact the precision of the system.
Autopilots on planes do sense meteorological conditions like wind,temperature,moisture and adjust its actions,towards it.
One day vaporizers even might have an inbuilt interactive Chromatograph which will tell exactly what and how much is in the vaporstream and probably those values will be even adjustable via the AI.(something like micro climate control,might even be able to add second source moisture to the vaporstream) Probably there also will be smart water pipes for the sole purpose.,
Fuck this stream of thoughts ,it only made me crave for a system which will allow you to adjust the contents of the vapor stream to your liking, temp/moisture/actives content.. Why not even be able to choose which compounds exactly you want delivered and filter out all the unwanted via some advancement refinement system ...

 

[Ramahs]

Yeah, screw that. I want a proper manual that can be perfected to work uniquely for each person, depending on developed technique, and with no regulation so I can push it to the edge on demand without any settings to worry about.

 

[pakalolo]

@pakalolo I dont see how it undermines it,it is more like a something that might be implemented in the technology in order to achieve what i was talking about.
Autopiloting doesnt mean it cannot take in account current herb conditions ... I am thinking here of true AI technology that does more than just trying to hold values at presets. It would take an account both your habbits and the current conditon of things,why not even suggest experience based on your mood or energy levels..
Also while different herb moisture requires different temps ,i dont see how that would impact the precision of the system.
Autopilots on planes do sense meteorological conditions like wind,temperature,moisture and adjust its actions,towards it.
One day vaporizers even might have an inbuilt interactive Chromatograph which will tell exactly what and how much is in the vaporstream and probably those values will be even adjustable via the AI.(something like micro climate control,might even be able to add second source moisture to the vaporstream) Probably there also will be smart water pipes for the sole purpose.,
Fuck this stream of thoughts ,it only made me crave for a system which will allow you to adjust the contents of the vapor stream to your liking, temp/moisture/actives content.. Why not even be able to choose which compounds exactly you want delivered and filter out all the unwanted via some advancement refinement system ...

My point is that you are striving for a precision that is not needed. Other variables that you can't control make every experience different. One more time: you just have to be in the ballpark.

 

[YaMon]

@Abysmal Vapor I suspect long before that kind of NASA level technology makes it to vapes, vapes will be thought of as medieval torture devices and we will be using one of Dr. Leonard McCoy’s hyosprays and dialing up how much we want of each medicine (THC,CBD,etc) and self administering a parenteral injection. The vape marketplace is not large or profitable enough to innovate the kind of advances you mention, far too many factors to cost effectively build into a portable device. While it’s nice to dream, I’m with @Ramahs and would rather use my mind and senses to control what factors I am able through the experience. As close as I want to come to full automation is being able to set an estimated temperature in TC mode on my box mod so I may enjoy some fresh herbs with my Splinter Z.