sickmanfraud
Well-Known Member
What temp did you use? There certainly seems to be a complete extraction.
The Screwball by Vapvana
- Thread starter caliganja420
- Start date
What temp did you use? There certainly seems to be a complete extraction.
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Cool, it wasn't until I twigged the pid display works differently, and there actually was some considerable heat oscillation from any change in conditions (e.g. using it!) that doesn't display on the pid. All I can really say is for me it seemed to produce more repeatable results, and whatever the real physics of the thing, in the end that was what I wanted (as well as a satisfactory hit!
).And I'll bet (even real money!) that it also depends on how each person uses it - draw technique, temp setting, bowl packing, blah blah. So all advice is good, but needs to be taken as only one persons experience - not right or wrong, just one way of doing of many.
The clamp thing I also picked up on, the slight mismatch in the connection when the weight of the handle pulls down. I also thought about a catch/hook opposite to the handle, built in to stop it, but then removal after the hit could be a problem if it stuck or caught on removal (accidents pulling over a water filled bong and dropping a red-hot heater in your lap all at once!
). If the mating is so close it doesn't get pulled, then expansion's likely to make it stick (I even think Cal mentioned this some time ago, but I may have unknowingly made that up! 
). My solution, if you can call it that, was to just allow it to sit unassisted for the first warm up as the thin Ti is such a good conductor that over that time period enough heat passes over quickly, and I'm really just taking the cold off, not trying to hit an exact temp, then the second soak I hold the handle so the mating is 'perfect' for the 10/15 seconds (another reason why the pre-soak helps, not coming up from room temp), and then keeping the heater aligned I pull (aim being to get as much in one hit, more important than total amount - hence I found half bowls work better).
But I know I work in a fairly specific mode and not everyone likes to do things in that way, each to our own, be so so boring if everyone agreed on everything! But if that gives a possible framework to try, hope it helps.
2pumpchump
Well-Known Member
I believe @LordOfTheVapes said 450 .
I did 1 at 440 was about the same looking by the picture but a tuch darker than I like so I dropped down to 425 f and @General Disaster is right is right you are correct all that will make a difference as for one's personal taste . I also noticed you found the 00000 screen the other day if you just back out or turn your controller off you should be fine .
I packed as much as I could in the bowl using a small slight restricted water pipe stuck the heater on and clamp it down NOTE the pid I'm using shows active temp of the coil . I noticed the same temperature drop of around 20 degrees for about 15 seconds before the controller starts to climb back up as it should to correct for the loss of heat .
Damn, this theory has got me interested in trying to save some of the light golden reclaim to try. I've vaped the brown looking reclaim from my other vapes before and it has that "done" taste to it. I wonder if it will taste terpier or fresher at all
TedJones
Well-Known Member
I think finding a handle with the exact weight needed would be ideal
Just tried using the clamp on the opposite side of the handle and it worked great!! Problem was I forgot the pass through and was juggling to get things off to clear 
This might be better for those who might leave the head on the bowl and don't have or want to use an adapter.
I have heat soaked it the typical way (vape on the bowl for a few minutes before loading). I found no impact on the conduction from the Vapvana bowl. I will have to repeat my CH SH experiments to see if there is something else going on. Maybe the gem cut rubies.
I have found that air can't move as quickly through the Screwball so that may have some impact on the convection currents.
Whoa, outside your rig? Are you heating it as you bring your Screwball up to temperature? Have you tried this with your other metal bowls and ball vapes?
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Dicking about with unknown gear without screwing it up is a skill I learned long ago, that prevented me being kicked out of many a server room!
Oh boy did I back out!
Personally I'm not a big fan, I think probably because I get much better entourage effect with the lighter cannabinoids and terpenes. My guess is the reclaim, although much cleaner from the SB, will still be much more composed of the higher boiling point compounds. Some people seem to get off on these just as much as the original weed, I just don't really enjoy it that much myself. But it's got to be worth trying. Also (and this is conjecture so don't make too much of it) it's not impossible that with the different metabolic route, making edibles from it could work better if smoking it isn't so good. Certainly the psychoactive compounds are broken down differently (hence the different effects when eaten), it's not just the slower uptake that's different. But who knows, maybe it'd be worse!!!
So I suspect it won't be a lot 'terpier' as I think the more flavourful terpenes are the lighters one (more volatile, smell stronger, etc), and although the vapour is less contaminated by degraded compounds, the lighter one's are still more likely to pass through (to yer gob!
) on first vaping the weed. Any attempt to force more of these to condense too (applying cooling to the glass, or similar) will be taking those from your original hit, diminishing your pleasure at that point! In the end, sad to say, you can't have your cake and eat it!I'm always losing my head! You haven't got a spare neck clamp have you?I think finding a handle with the exact weight needed would be ideal
TedJones
Well-Known Member
Ha, I do! Have a couple for glass heaters. The clamp worked like a charm with the adapter for two hits in half bowl. 490 Roast on FC Mod with long drop down to accommodate height with pass through.I'm always losing my head! You haven't got a spare neck clamp have you?
Also disassembled, tightened the coil a little more against heater, and put a new ball holder screen in (domed down shape now).
MTpromises
Well-Known Member
Here's what I'm seeing. Both hits are at 480F, the pile on the left is no soak, the pile on the right is about 15-20s soak.
I just hold the bowl to the coil after packing it.
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General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
I've not put any actual thought into it, but I think it may be possible to design a simple clamp/clip that could slide into place on the opposite side of the bowl/head from the heater handle, such that it would hold the mating surfaces together for better thermal contact, but be very easy to safely pull it away as you lift the heater away, but no need to have a spring-loaded clamp or similar which adds an extra action to removing it. Almost like a Keck clamp in the way it slides on, but easier to slide on and off without force, and with a bit of a handle sticking out opposite to heater handle to avoid a burn from the Ti. With the lightweight handle that comes on the heater, it wouldn't need to support a large weight.Ha, I do! Have a couple for glass heaters. The clamp worked like a charm with the adapter for two hits in half bowl. 490 Roast on FC Mod with long drop down to accommodate height with pass through.
Also disassembled, tightened the coil a little more against heater, and put a new ball holder screen in (domed down shape now).
TedJones
Well-Known Member
Yea that would be easy and an inexpensive accessory option. So I just left it clipped on for both pulls without removing from the bowl. Waited 30ish seconds in between
Wait you are soaking the bowl with material inside? That's not bowl conduction. That's heat escaping from the head pre-vaping your weed for you. You can see this happen with any ball vape. You won't even have to draw. Try it with a glass bowl and you'll see an even more pronounced effect. This is due to the glass acting as a good insulator. Photos of this here:
Cannabis Hardware (formerly NewVape) FlowerPot Twax Vaporizer
That’s what I did with my F22, a layer and ~a half of 4mm, filled to top with 3mm. The bottom “screen” seems secure and there is still rattle room.
fuckcombustion.com
TedJones
Well-Known Member
Probably why my roast was a bit darker than normal while I had it secured to the bowl. Will try waiting less between the pulls next time.
Typically when people talk about heat soaking a bowl, they do it before loading. Are you also soaking with weed in the bowl?
It would never occur to me to do that as it would be just wasting my cannabis.
This is another reason to ignore duff color when judging the efficiency of a vape. Vapor, flavor, etc., are much better indicators. as the phits abive show. You can get black duff with no useful vapor.
TedJones
Well-Known Member
Negative. Finding most of these bowl materials soak up enough heat from the first draw, to get that combo heat from head/bowl, on the second draw. Even the zx bowl stays warm after emptying & reloading for the next hit imo.
Oh ok. I misunderstood when you said
Anyway if you enjoy heat soaking go for it. But there is no meaningful conduction being added here.
There are heated bowls for ball vapes. Those definitely add conduction!
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
I have to admit that my (less experienced view) was most people seem to heat soak after filling the bowl! I've no idea which is meant to be better, or even if one of them is, and not just different ways with pros and cons of their own, not really put any thought into it to be honest.
Flavour also isn't a question for me, I can barely taste or smell a combust, never mind those subtle flavours!
I don't see it as wasting anything, but then I never let it get so hot I see any smoke or vapour until I pull on it, but then I also use a double-soak technique, and don't let the bowl get as hot as just leaving it on for the same length of time. I think I waffled on about that recently so I won't bore everyone here (for a change!
)But always interested in debate for and against?
If you look through that CH thread I linked you'll see no one is heat soaking with material. Maybe that's the cool thing with the kids today.
If you leave it on your bowl for 5 minutes you won't see any vapor escaping but if you hit it after that time you will not get any vapor. Where did it go? I think really mostly just destroys the plant material, making it unsuitable for vaping.
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Ah, you didn't see my post on how I do a heat soak. 5 minutes!!!! Bloody 'ell, I wouldn't expect to see sod all left after that!
Also, how you heat soak a bowl is going to be specific for the type of bowl and heater being used. They'll all behave differently. e.g. the Screwball has such a good mating surface between bowl and head, and such low mass of Ti in the bowl, that heat passes over damn fast! 10 seconds and pull the heater off, you'll almost certainly burn yourself badly if you touch that bowl! But the B2 with a shovelhead takes considerable longer, in part due to the larger mass of Ti, partly due to the poor mating surface area between bowl and head.
This variable time factor will effect what's in the bowl (or not) too.
Personally, from my own work experience, I'd not consider pre-heating before filling, but then it's so specific to the circumstance and desired result, it's hard to judge in a general fashion, too specific to the products used, not to mention technique. There could be so many ways to get it how is desired. All the talk of conduction vs. convection can sometimes be misleading, the two constantly interchange for one thing.
I suspect it's actually condensed within the bowl and even parts of the heater. Degradation can and does happen, but that changes it's nature such as the colour and consistency, but won't stop it from escaping as visible vapours, unless it condenses somewhere inside. It may make it toxic, and less psychoactive, but it won't disappear, it has to go somewhere.
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MTpromises
Well-Known Member
I think your test is a bit flawed. The weed/bowl combo doesn't have to necessarily be hot enough to sustain conduction on it's own to be effective. If the weed is 300F before being hit, instead of room temp, it's bound to be beneficial, even more so to the lower layer of weed. Even though I don't think it's the best metric, I tried your test with the Screwball and it actually does give visible vapor after a 30 second heat soak, no head attached hit. It was a wisp and not a full hit, but their was vapor. I decided to tamp the next bow a little, but I'm pretty fucking high from testing what's like 4 bowls now, and messed up the time maybe, so the second test did give more vapor, but I'm not sure if it was tamping or a like 45s heat up. It wasn't a full hit, but it was a terpy mouthful and clearly visible as it snaked through the Prophet.
I have tried this a good bit with the CH Shovelhead and Ti Tiodw bowl. Like you demonstrate, it takes a real long time to have an effect and I never found a sweet spot where I felt I got a bigger hit, and it often tasted worse than just hitting it cold. The difference I feel is the thin walls/lower coils makes the Screwball's bowl actually effective in using the conduction heat. It gets done in seconds what it takes the other bowls/heads minutes.
I thought pre-heating was just heating an empty vape and heat soaking was the with bud in it, but I guess it's ambiguous. I assumed when people said heat soaking they meant bud since pre-heating was already a different thing. If that isn't the case, I think it should be moving forward lol. I'd hate to think when I've recommended heat soaking a Terpcicle, that people thought I meant empty and tried to pack that hot.
Have you used a Screwball or are you just working on previous knowledge? I think it's fair enough to be the latter, but I can't imagine continuing this discussion if you could try yourself.
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
If this were true the glass bowl would then be the best for your use case. For metal bowls it actually sinks the heat away from the bowl into the joint. Quite easy to measure that with a probe thermometer.
It's not conduction, but if you like it you should keep at it
I do own a screwball. I used it for a little over a month exclusively before reaching any conclusions about it. That's the way I use all of my new vapes.
LotV
Well-Known Member
Hey @Grass Yes , I saw you mentioned previously you preferred the half bowl setting to preserve flavor; what method are you using to extract vapor via your Screwball? I tried searching this thread and apologize if you posted regarding that already and I missed it; I want to try using the screwball in some new/different ways.
I tried @TedJones suggestions and liked it a lot; I need to buy a thermocouple to see what's actually going on.
With everything that's been said so far I'm really looking forward to this release:
Btw, I've been using the screwball for about a month now and haven't cleaned the gems with ISO. How often do you guys think they need cleaning?
TedJones
Well-Known Member
Nice, sometimes they’re not so great
. What did you try, soak then load herb? How long?Yea I’d be up to try that glass bowl when available! No double deckers of concentrates through mine, so when I dumped the gems out the other day, they still looked shiny & new
