The Screwball by Vapvana

[2pumpchump]

Since I was dm with the question


Hear is the answer ....
With pid in the power on setting click through power button 5 times this take you to the auto timer the number 0 is no timer
I'm gonna let the rest of you guys argue where you shove your thermometer
Edit sorry I'll play nice lol
Problem 1 the current pid doesn't display active temp.. not a bad thing in some ways is more user-friendly..
2 yes wear you measured temp compare with your pid temp is going to make a difference is based on
3 is your vape fully heated and chill or on the warm up cycle

 

[JohnnyTorres]

I got a rough first iteration of my heat shield stand made up tonight. It's a steel tumbler, cut in two, and glued to a railing oval. I used RTV silicone for the glue, as it's the only high temp adhesive I had on hand.

https://imgur.com/a/UONr1tR

The inner cup has the bottom intact to protect the wood base (the RTV goes all around the outer lip and has a large blob in the middle for extra insulation). The outer wall sits proud of the inner wall, so any hot parts are harder to reach.

The material seems thin enough to dissipate the heat. With the head resting like it is in the pics, the back bottom part of the outer wall is warm, like a coffee mug, but not hot. The inner wall stays cool enough to touch the top edge. Depending on how much whip is supported, the head can float in the cup, or get pulled towards the front and rest near the slot. Either way, the outside cup only gets warm, at least with my coil set at 510.

If I were to do this again, I would want to angle the slots more so the head would always rest at a downward angle, against the bottom of the cup. Maybe keep the inner wall thin, then make the outer wall out of a different material.

 

[coolbreeze]

New bowl arrived, the screen popped right into the half-bowl setting, came free of the joint with no stickiness. DC PID running a bit hotter than usual (460?) and half-bowl filled, first hit was a knockout. Great flavor, even, golden-brown roast, it's probably done enough; turned down to ~440 and finished up with a huge hit and dark, even roast. Gonna have to try it a bit lower afterwhile.

Great update, Cal!

EDIT:
I haven't seen much discussion about using other bowls with the Screwball and it hasn't occurred to me until now, but I was surprised to find that the shovelhead and the CC glass Zeal bowl both work well, even down to screenloads. Tried the DFreeZ microdiffuser and it works great but a little more woody than normal. But the new bowl certainly seems like the way to go!

EDIT II:
Yeah, I think the half-bowl's my new default. Been running it at about 420F (I think) and gettting two very comfortable, good tasting, full hits for a golden-brown roast, three hits through a recycler. I'll have to measure but it's basically a good, fat pinch leveled.

 

[add1noob]

Does anyone know the name of the pass through adapter Cal uses in the video where he talks about the bowl seizing?

 

[Vapvana]

Updates & Feedback Responses [1 of 2]​

First off, I'd like to extend a warm welcome to all the new screwballers joining the club this week!

And thank you to everyone who has provided feedback so far. It has been a fun challenge keeping up with all the responses while trying to get caught up on shipping

Good vs Bad Feedback - What's The Difference?​

Our perception - and IMO there is no such thing as bad feedback. Because to me, a failure is only an opportunity to get better.

I think one of the things that makes FC such a great (and sometimes tense) community, is how critical members can be. One of the reasons I spent ~1.5 years developing the Screwball behind the scenes was because of my personal standards for products.

I kept asking myself - "why would I share this with others if I'm not happy with it myself?"

The problem is that perfectionism can be the devil, and I learned how to make compromises and overcome the unexpected challenges along the way.

Permission To Roast: Granted​

And not your cannabis either, I'm talking about roasting me!

What I mean is, I want everyone to feel like this thread (or any Vapvana medium) is a safe place to share your opinion without feeling judged.

I've honestly have expected more pushback from my opinion posts - when I talk about things I would deem as 'common misconceptions'

My goal is to help explain complex info in a basic way for new users getting into cannabis vaping. I want to make sure I have an 'expert level' understanding on the relevant topics of cannabis consumption via vaporization so I don't pass on incorrect info.

Screwball Feedback​

Thanks again to everyone who has provided feedback already! My assumption is it's going to take ~2 weeks or so before everyone dials their Screwball in to their preferred temp settings.

Even after using this device thousands of times, I'm still learning new things. And since the half-sized bowl update is new, I'm still experimenting with how changing one variable (the bowl size) changes the overall experience.

Hey all. Got mine today Done a full and half bowl so far so very early impression and I'm pleasantly IMPRESSED! Great looking unit and the extraction is phenomenal......

.....Can't wait to dive deeper with this beauty and for others to do the same

Glad you're off to a good start @TedJones !

For the bowl getting stuck in your pass thru adapter - from my experience the bowl will behave differently in each glass joint. Some always get stuck, some never get stuck. I think the thinner the glass walls = the more luckily to seize in the joint.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with the positioning of the gem in the first logo... Cheers bro. (Have edited Original post).

Awesome design

I haven't put a ton of thought into a logo specifically for the Screwball yet, but when that time comes soon I will reach out

Thanks for sharing!

Testing will continue, but I’m nice at the moment! A nice fat bong seems like an inevitable purchase in my future.

Welcome to the face melting club, @80Sixed !

Some heavy hitters will do a full sized bowl, fully packed, with a dab or two on top (love me a salad bowl )

After I get caught up with orders, I plan to start a thread for Vapvana Glass & Collaborations

Took three HUGE rips and got super toasty from that one. No stirring and the bowl was perfectly roasted. Excellent results so far!

Welcome to the club, @zer0k00l !

I'm also on team #NoStir - which seems like you're figuring out too As I'll recommend again - keep experimenting with different temps and let me know what you end up landing up

Recommend Screwball Preheat Times​

I'm a silly fellow. There's so much more mass in the heater so you have to give it a way longer heat soak than what I'm used to

From my testing, I recommend waiting ~5 mins to get your rubies fully to temp.

Dry Vaping w/ the Screwball​

Do you know if you can improve the "smoothest" of the vapor without adding water ?? this is my main complain .....

Thanks for the feedback @Razshiro !

I've done a little experimenting with dry vaping, but not a ton with the Screwball. Our partner (rec vapes) mainly vapes dry, so I will speak with them next meeting to see if I can gather any tips & tricks.

My follow up questions to your situation would be:

• What temp do you run the DC-Elev8r on?
• How much do you load into the bowl?
• Do you use any attachments?
• Whats your inhale speed like? low and slow? hard and fast? a balanced draw?

If you could post a picture of your setup, or even a video of a hit, that would also help would some recommendations. I also think the half sized bowl could help too.

My assumption is because the SB and other ball vapes have a lot of stored heat, if you put too much of that into the 'vape stream' it will make the vapor itself hotter/more irritable/etc.

Without knowing anymore info, I'd recommend setting the PID in a 500f-520f range, loading ~1/2 scoop into the bowl, and trying to inhale 'hard and fast' to get a quick one hit of vapor, without pulling a ton of heat into the 'vape stream'

So between the pull on the bubbler and the resistance on the piece, there's this sweet spot where there's just a massive amount of vapor. There is SO MUCH vapor that the percolation in the bubbler stacks about twice as high when it's milking vs when I pull the heater off. It's like the extra "viscosity" in the air changes the fluid dynamics. All that being said, this is truly the most delectable vape I have personally used. Much tastier than any of my previous injectors (b2, b0, z8, zx).

Thanks for the review & welcome to the club, @Zuhdj !

When I first experienced the 'sweet spot' with the Screwball, I was like 'holy shit this is amazing' IMO, since there are so many variables with ball vapes, it will take some experimenting from each user to find their own unit 'sweet spot'

Watch the Couch Log thread. @Beefcake@420Eng is making a 14mm humidifier for dry glass use:

CouchLog

@sickmanfraud You can connect the power cable on one side only, so you can't go wrong. Wouldn't it be nice to add the downloadable instructions to the site? perhaps they already exist? I couldn't find them. The best thing would be to add them in several languages. Thanks for the quick...

fuckcombustion.com

https://imgur.com/omL8grJ

Super cool idea from @Beefcake@420Eng !

Another awesome company y'all should checkout - plus they are in the SB club too

 

[Vapvana]

Updates & Feedback Responses [2 of 2]​

Screwball Temp Readings​

I'm still curious about my temperature readings, and would love anyone else with the tools to chime in. I can aim the infrared beam at the coil itself, at the screen holding the gems, even the corner where the screen meets the walls, and nothing comes close to what I'm seeing on the PID. So where does it get it's number to display? Have all these e-nails been wrong this whole time? Have we been living a LIE?

First off, welcome to the club, @JohnnyTorres !

And thank you for takin the time to test and post feedback - I'm a numbers guy so it's fun to try and figure out how these devices are working.

After we spoke, I went out and go the same (similar?) IR gun from Harbor Freight to test my coil temps. I was also unable to get accurate temps, and am assuming the IR temp gun doesn't work well for our application?

K Type vs IR Gun Temp (PID = 520f)​

The k-type probe fits pretty snug into the holes on top of the lid, so I'm assuming the ruby temps should be similar or hotter. Either way, it seems to be a lot closer to the PID temp than what I could get with the IR gun.

Combustion = Calibration​

Is there a way Cal can find the difference between our PID temp and our ending bowl temp? I know there's about a 50 degree Fahrenheit between the temp setting and the convection airstream. But what is the difference between that convection air and the internal herb temp? Do we know?

I think the problem is even if I was able to find a pretty close number on my setup, it would translate the exact same to your setup.

One idea to 'calibrate' your device is to keep turning up your temp (without changing any other variable) until you combust on your device. My theory is that by finding the combustion point (~450f) you can adjust your temps down accordingly.

For example, if setting the PID 565f on my setup gets me to combustion(450f), then if I set the PID to 465f it should get my herb to ~350f in theory.

PID Auto-Shutoff Feature​

Does anyone know the the PID has an auto-off feature? If not, I think I have a defective unit. I left it on for an hour and came back to a cold heater That first hit was much more than I’m used to and surpassed my expectations.

Welcome to the club, @Kaptan !

If it wasn't answered yet. you can click the middle button 5 times in a row when turned on to access the auto shutoff menu. Select between 0-5 hour auto shutoff from there.

Here’s a couple pulls at 520. A bit warm for my taste but darkened the half bowl nicely. Fun new toy!

Thanks for the rip shot @TedJones !

Glad you've been enjoying your toy, keep experimenting and let me know what your preferred settings end up being

PID Temp = Reference Point​

My advice to everyone using a PID controller driven ball vape is to ignore the numbers relative to anything else. Just think of higher is hotter, but it's not useful to compare even between different vapes on the same PID, let alone the estimated bowl temperature. There are frankly too many other variables (draw speed, glass piece, cannabis cure, ambient temperature, etc) to make this possible anyway.

And if you placed a probe into the bowl, what would that tell you? I'd avoid looking for specific numbers and experiment. Once you are satisfied with your settings, I'm certain the Screwball will perform consistently and reliably.

Great points @Grass Yes ! (and congrats on the new mod role! )

As mentioned, because there are so many variables with ball vapes, it's difficult to replicate experiences between different users.

IMO, you should use the PID number as a reference to your desired outcome. "If I set the PID to 500f, with one scoop of herb, with this rig, I will likely get this roast" (you may have to adjust your temp depending on your herb strain, too)

I've also run a test with a probe in the bowl - the goal was to see how much conduction heat the Screwball was capable of. I was curious if I left the heater on the bowl, how much heat was actually being added via conduction?

(test results posted below )

Designed For 'Sesh Mode'​

That all being said, one thing is scientifically accurate and that is that the full bowl filled to the brim is a MUCH better experience overall compared to anything else I've done with the vape. Except, of course, the sheer quantity required. This is where a good amount of cbd comes in real handy as a way of fluffing up your herb.

The half bowl full is great but not quite as great. And not filling it is cool too. But getting that maximum conduction surface area definitely extracts nicer overall

A majority of my testing was done with the full sized bowl, fully packed with 1 to 2 scoops

My theory was that by using a full bowl, the herb would help conduct heat too and add to the 'heat transfer efficiency', and allow me to operate at lower convection temps. Since the half-sized bowl is a newer update, I'm still experimenting with it myself.

As of now, I prefer the full sized bowl for 'sesh style' vaping and the half-sized bowl for 'one hit extractions'

Screwball Conduction Tests​

You should put a probe in your bowl. I want to see it! I don't think it will tell you anything useful about vaping, but it would be neat. I'd suggest a high temperature k-type thermocouple. Ideally not the immersion kind, but that will be close enough.

As mentioned above, my goal with this test was to see how much conduction heat the Screwball was capable of.

Instagram Live Tests​

Chart from IG Live Tests​

My Takeaways:​

• The SB is mainly a convection device (which is what is was intended to be)
  • The goal was to use conduction to improve the convection performance
• A preheat is only necessary if you want to lower your convection air temps
  • Preheating only matters before your first inhale
• Conduction helps 'maintain' the herb temp after the first inhale, and doesn't continue heating it
  • I found it interesting that in the video after I inhaled and brought the herb temp to it's max temp (340f) I continued to leave the heater on the bowl without inhaling, and that's when the temp started to drop to ~333f
  • After the first inhale, you can leave the heater on the bowl without worrying about overheating it.
• I made this image to help visual what your temps may look like after a ~30 second preheat

Deluxe Stand Mockup​

I got a rough first iteration of my heat shield stand made up tonight. It's a steel tumbler, cut in two, and glued to a railing oval. I used RTV silicone for the glue, as it's the only high temp adhesive I had on hand.

https://imgur.com/a/UONr1tR

Thanks for taking the time to put this together and share your results!

After I get caught up I plan on doing a 3D mockup for a deluxe stand idea or two. I will definitely be taking in yours and everyone else's ideas to help make a deluxe stand.

Some feature ideas I have so far are:

• Has a deluxe look / feel to it - probably with wood + metal materials
• It has a heat guard / shield built into it - to protect people form accidentally touching it
• It suspends the heating in the air safely - this will allow to faster heatup and reheat times
• Works with multiple handle sizes - not just the default handle it comes with

Please let me know if you have any other ideas to add to the list

Updated SB Bowls​

New bowl arrived, the screen popped right into the half-bowl setting, came free of the joint with no stickiness.....

.....But the new bowl certainly seems like the way to go!

I've been in the process of sending out updated bowls to early adopters. So if you haven't received an invoice from me yet, please reach out

I haven't experienced too much with other bowls (since I don't own any ), although I found it interesting that people say the SB bowl works well with other diffusers too

Although I think these pairings are possible - I'm a believer in having every component made specifically to work with the whole 'ecosystem'. The good news is the DFreez and other artists have a SB, so expect custom 3rd party accessories in the near future

Oblivion Glass Dry Catches​

Does anyone know the name of the pass through adapter Cal uses in the video where he talks about the bowl seizing?

That's a dry catch made from @OblivionGlass on Instagram!

I also plan on offering dry catches from him soon

For now if you're interested in one, I recommend sending him a message on IG to have a custom made.

Talk soon,
Cal

 

[JohnnyTorres]

Some heavy hitters will do a full sized bowl, fully packed, with a dab or two on top (love me a salad bowl )

Salad bowls are great, but who else loves doing a double decker on this? Little dab melted through the gems while hitting a bowl...

 

[Kiwi Vapor]

Salad bowls are great, but who else loves doing a double decker on this? Little dab melted through the gems while hitting a bowl...

Have seen people doing that. Does it clog the device though? Do you clean the rubies with iso?

 

[JohnnyTorres]

Have seen people doing that. Does it clog the device though? Do you clean the rubies with iso?

It would take a lot of chaz or plant matter to build up and clog it, but I guess it could if left long enough without care. The temps we use at the coil should be about perfect dab temps, I've gotten minimal buildup in the few days I've had mine. I did a 900f burn off last night and it cleared all the visible buildup on the lid and gems, plus it gave the head a sweet bit of color.

Iso baths for the gems and lid could be done if needed, but I don't want to keep track of those gems. I'm gonna stick to heat cleaning until I notice a flavor difference or visible nastiness on the gems.

 

[.brew]

My theory is that by finding the combustion point (~450f) you can adjust your temps down accordingly.

For example, if setting the PID 565f on my setup gets me to combustion(450f), then if I set the PID to 465f it should get my herb to ~350f in theory.

This only works assuming the differential is linear, which it's unlikely to be. You can also figure in some amount of tolerance; for example, if it's +-5% (which would be pretty low to be honest) that's a 10% swing. 565 could be 510 or it could be 620. It could start out with a +-5% variance and end up closer to 20% by the time you're up in the 500F temps. It could be reading 620 while measuring 500F...but then reading at 500F while measuring at 450F, for example.

Does it clog the device though? Do you clean the rubies with iso?

I use PBW to soak my balls. I doubt ISO would make a dent in that kind of residual...I haven't been able to clean it even with 91% ISO. You could use try acetone but PBW works and should be safe with titanium if you want to clean that, too, at the same time.

I did a 900f burn off last night

This is too hot, imo. The titanium can react with the atmosphere around it. Even in welding we're supposed to keep titanium cooler than 800F, for example.

 

[JohnnyTorres]

This is too hot, imo. The titanium can react with the atmosphere around it. Even in welding we're supposed to keep titanium cooler than 800F, for example.

It was definitely hotter than needed to clean, but I also wanted to see if my stand reacted in any way. Thanks for suggesting a lower temp, I will keep it in mind in my future experiments.

Do you think the 800f welding limit is for health and safety concerns, or for oxidation degredation? My understanding is that Titanium can be heat-colorized, and the temps start at 700f and go to 1200f+. My base search didn't turn up much urgency for PPE when heat treating for artistic purposes, so I assume the concerns are more structural than health related.

 

[Sandrider1962]

It was definitely hotter than needed to clean, but I also wanted to see if my stand reacted in any way. Thanks for suggesting a lower temp, I will keep it in mind in my future experiments.

Do you think the 800f welding limit is for health and safety concerns, or for oxidation degredation? My understanding is that Titanium can be heat-colorized, and the temps start at 700f and go to 1200f+. My base search didn't turn up much urgency for PPE when heat treating for artistic purposes, so I assume the concerns are more structural than health related.

Titanium melting point at 1668c / 3034f. Preferred welding method is pulsed tig, as to keep the temps down.... my understanding is as you mentioned, oxidation, and I will add embrittlement.

Oxy/Acétylène cutting tip will get up to 3000f ball park. If memory serves that is where Titanium Dioxide gas might come into play.
Rosebud work, depend on the tip. If that helps any.

 

[Zuhdj]

The half bowl has half as much conductive surface area. Because of this, I am compensating by about 10-20 degrees on the PID to boost the convection air temp and account for the difference in surface area. 520-530 is working really well for a good quick session on the half bowl.

 

[.brew]

health and safety concerns

I don't know the health and safety concerns of heating titanium. The broader point is health wasn't the driver of that threshold. What it should be I don't know and so I choose to err on the side of caution until I can confirm. That's just my opinion.

Nothing to do with the Screwball or even titanium necessarily. I say similar about anything that isn't glass. I've been all-glass airpath for many decades even before I gave up combustion. Last month was the first time I've vaped through something that wasn't all-glass in all that time so I might be overly cautious.

 

[zer0k00l]

I connected the Screwball to my DC PID today. I ran it through a smallish bubbler with pretty open airflow. Started at 440f and eventually ended at 420f with excellent results. I’m cleaning some pieces with larger volume, anxiously waiting to try and roast an entire full bowl in one hit!

 

[Pcloudy]

I connected the Screwball to my DC PID today. I ran it through a smallish bubbler with pretty open airflow. Started at 440f and eventually ended at 420f with excellent results. I’m cleaning some pieces with larger volume, anxiously waiting to try and roast an entire full bowl in one hit!

I also run mine with great results at 420, I feel really cliche but if it works it works.

 

[Bababouy]

Got the shipping notice for the updated bowl today. Super excited to try out the half bowl setting. Welcome all new screwball fam!

 

[jbm]

Took me longer to get unpacked and set up than I expected, but so far so good. Made a couple vids with the SB on the Sky Lunar Bubbler but want to get it a bit more dialed in before I post anything. Q: is the bowl I just got the “new bowl?” And it has the half bowl setting? I think I need to push it up to the half bowl groove, the result bowl depth is too much material.

 

[coolbreeze]

Took me longer to get unpacked and set up than I expected, but so far so good.

Made a couple vids with the SB on the Sky Lunar Bubbler but want to get it a bit more dialed in before I post anything. Q: is the bowl I just got the “new bowl?” And it has the half bowl setting? I think I need to push it up to the half bowl groove, the result bowl depth is too much material.

I think it should be the new bowl? Try pushing the screen up to the next groove (you may need to go in from the top). The half bowl's a nice size for me, like 2-3 hits at 420F..

 

[jbm]

I think it should be the new bowl? Try pushing the screen up to the next groove (you may need to go in from the top). The half bowl's a nice size for me, like 2-3 hits at 420F..

I went from the bottom, actually, pushed it out and into the top groove. Much better, cash a half bowl in a couple hits. I’m running it on the kit pid at 485, will prob switch it to my dc pid to conserve desk real estate.

 

[coolbreeze]

I went from the bottom, actually, pushed it out and into the top groove. Much better, cash a half bowl in a couple hits. I’m running it on the kit pid at 485, will prob switch it to my dc pid to conserve desk real estate.

It's a worthwhile update for sure, ain't it?

 

[jbm]

It's a worthwhile update for sure, ain't it?

Well, this is my entry into the World o’ Screwball, so actually for me it’s just “the bowl,” not the “new bowl.” Or did you mean switching to the half bowl was a worthwhile update? Gee, my humorlessness is showing through.

 

[coolbreeze]

Well, this is my entry into the World o’ Screwball, so actually for me it’s just “the bowl,” not the “new bowl.” Or did you mean switching to the half bowl was a worthwhile update? Gee, my humorlessness is showing through.

No, not humorlessness on your part, just dumbassery on mine. For you the update is more theoretical, of course, I meant in your experience (the extent of which I'd misplaced for the moment ), between the two settings. For you with it being new, I think you've found what others have found: for some it's a big load. The half bowl is a worthy option in that it mitigates that for sure and it does it well, flavor and roast-wise. So far I think I like it better than slow-roasting my way through a bowl, but that's really kinda nice too.

 

[2pumpchump]

OK im coming clean lol for reasons to be explan in a few ..
So if you watch any of the videos I posted on hear of the screwball you will notice the heater is upagints my stand in every video.. I slip it on it as I'm packing the bowl and get camera set you would think it would cool the ruby gems down
. Wrong it actually makes them hotter.. as I'm not the best explanation sometimes by text . So I will be doing a YouTube to try my best for you of what is going on with you vape wile you are vaping it
My reason for bringing this up is because I'm debating on deluxe stand id's . So time to new test equipment I guess

 

[TedJones]

@Necra yea interested in what you come up with. I’ve tried keeping the coil/heater from touching the stand itself. Using a prop for the handle so it sits suspended for the most part. Know it’s fine to rest against as Cal, you, others have it like that in vids. I was thinking some heat might be lost to the stand .. not much though..?