The Religion Thread

BD9

BD9

Well-Known Member
So that the Presidential thread can get back on track, please post all religion related comments here.

Please, no matter how much you agree/disagree or silly you think someone's beliefs are keep it civil. No personal attacks. No name calling.

I'll start.

I'm agnostic leaning toward atheist but I am obsessed with spiritual things. I've read various forms and versions of the bible several times and I take my belief, lack of belief, seriously. Not a decision I came to lightly.

Discuss................................
 
CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I feel the same way I'm more of an agnostic. I grew up with a very religious mother so I am familiar with what is in the Christian bible. I went to Sunday school for many years. When I grew I up I couldn't make sense of the Christian religion.

I too am fascinated with religion and how it came about a few thousand years ago. Why people felt a need to have something to try to make sense out of why we are here? What happens when we die? Why things happen the way they do in life? Is there evil that makes us do bad thing? Is there a God?

So many wars, torture and deaths all in the name of religion.

I believe that people should be able to practice the religion they choose only if they aren't harming others. I don't believe in banning a whole religious group from entering our country. We live in a free society in America with religious freedom to believe or not to believe.

There is some prejudice if you don't believe in a religion. I try not to get into religious conversations at work.

Edit
Folks will say, "I'll pray for you" I will just say I can use all the prayers that I can get.
 
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TeeJay1952

TeeJay1952

Well-Known Member
My first dissonant thoughts when I was 6 was "What on earth are these people talking about?" Separated me from society. Learned to have inner dialog and not discuss with others cuz I was "evil and quite possibly damned for all time." By the time I was 12 cigarettes and weed secrets seemed normal. And here we are.:rockon:
 
gangababa

gangababa

Well-Known Member
I am a student of Advaita Vedanta. We believe in the Divine to the point of denying the existence of 'otherness'.

The proper sphere of activity for religion is found in the Latin roots; the word means connected (line, lineage, legion, ligament) back or again (re).
Religion should reveal the one permanent, non-negatable truth of that which you know so well and which you label "I".
Connect back to the source, sustenance and resolution of every self.
You are Existent Consciousness', the self-evident knowledge labeled "I AM".
What I am is where the confusion lies.
In old testament Genesis, God says, "I am that I am" therefore that is what you are (tat tvam asi).

Religion is knowledge of the Self and the connection of Self to the whole.
Anyone who is so confused about Self as to harm any perceived other, has failed to learn religion; is deluded by the self-ignorance that everyone has and by which everyone is confused ('original sin' some say; 'avidya' the Vedantin says).
Most of us remain within socially tolerable norms.

In one Abrahamic religion some say homosexuality is bad and the 'other' deserves to die.
People are encouraged to harm some others.
People in a second Abrahamic religion say the same thing.
Both say it is can be righteous to kill some 'others' (e.g. abortion providers).
One promises a reward in heaven; the other implies it.

The Hindu concept of Ahimsa is often thought of as non-violence or doing no harm.
It is much deeper and requires seeking to cause no DISTURBANCES
Guess I will have to stop posting to forums avoid possible offense
And to avoid disturbing the self, I need to stop reading
 
Maitri

Maitri

Deadhead, Low-Temp Dabber, Mahayana Buddhist
gangababa said:
I am a student of Advaita Vedanta. We believe in the Divine to the point of denying the existence of 'otherness'.

The proper sphere of activity for religion is found in the Latin roots; the word means connected (line, lineage, legion, ligament) back or again (re).
Religion should reveal the one permanent, non-negatable truth of that which you know so well and which you label "I".
Connect back to the source, sustenance and resolution of every self.
You are Existent Consciousness', the self-evident knowledge labeled "I AM".
What I am is where the confusion lies.
In old testament Genesis, God says, "I am that I am" therefore that is what you are (tat tvam asi).

Religion is knowledge of the Self and the connection of Self to the whole.
Anyone who is so confused about Self as to harm any perceived other, has failed to learn religion; is deluded by the self-ignorance that everyone has and by which everyone is confused ('original sin' some say; 'avidya' the Vedantin says).
Most of us remain within socially tolerable norms.

In one Abrahamic religion some say homosexuality is bad and the 'other' deserves to die.
People are encouraged to harm some others.
People in a second Abrahamic religion say the same thing.
Both say it is can be righteous to kill some 'others' (e.g. abortion providers).
One promises a reward in heaven; the other implies it.

The Hindu concept of Ahimsa is often thought of as non-violence or doing no harm.
It is much deeper and requires seeking to cause no DISTURBANCES
Guess I will have to stop posting to forums avoid possible offense
And to avoid disturbing the self, I need to stop reading
Click to expand...

Oh how wonderful! I have been perpetually confused by this "I" and "self" for such a long time. Any chance you might be kind and generous enough to help clarify my confusion?
 
h3rbalist

h3rbalist

I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too
Jedi...

Is that still a thing?



... I recently downloaded an english copy of the Koran to see what all the fuss was about.

Haven't read it yet




I am my own God. :rockon:


Edit

I should add my father was roman catholic and my mother a protestant from Northern Ireland.

To say there was friction within the families is an understatement.

My Mum was forced to leave Ireland. This was in the early 80's at the height of the religious terrorist 'troubles' here in GB.

Hate in the name of religion is not a new thing for me.
 
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Daily

Daily

Member
Maitri said:
Oh how wonderful! I have been perpetually confused by this "I" and "self" for such a long time. Any chance you might be kind and generous enough to help clarify my confusion?
Click to expand...
Thats the point, there is no I... Thats why you are confused about it. :p
 
Daily,
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gangababa

gangababa

Well-Known Member
Maitri said:
Oh how wonderful! I have been perpetually confused by this "I" and "self" for such a long time. Any chance you might be kind and generous enough to help clarify my confusion?
Click to expand...


No, but I have a teacher who can do so. Expect about twelve years of intensive study, but you don't need to learn Sanskrit.
 
gangababa,
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CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
There's quite a bit of the King James Version of the bible that is left out. Who decided what to put in and leave out? Many books were left out. The bible evolved after many hundreds of years. How could it have changed I wonder in all that time? I find the history of how the bible changed over the years fascinating.

What parts in the bible actually happened and what was made up? A lot probably was made up. Is there a thin shred of truth in some of it? Are there some parts that are a part of history? Instead of God doing some of the things that happened they were most likely natural disasters such as the locust, flood and earthquakes say causing the walls of Jericho to fall.

I wonder if there was really a man named Jesus?
 
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lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
I'm not religious at all. I don't observe any holidays from any religion and the last time I was in a church/temple/synagogue was over 40 years ago. I don't prey. I don't read any religious texts. I don't do any of that, but................over the years of escaping a multitude of things that should have obviously done me harm, I have this funny feeling that something is watching over me and every once in awhile, when the occasion calls for it, I'll give whatever that is a high five, a wink and a :tup:.
 
waxdab23

waxdab23

Well-Known Member
There was a book (Qur'an) revealed after the Bible that confirmed all that was in it and the Torah, as well as what was removed from them. The Qur'an is free from defects and has not been altered or had anything removed from it since the time it was divinely inspired upon Muhammad thousands of years ago.
 
lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
waxdab23 said:
There was a book (Qur'an) revealed after the Bible that confirmed all that was in it and the Torah, as well as what was removed from them. The Qur'an is free from defects and has not been altered or had anything removed from it since the time it was divinely inspired upon Muhammad thousands of years ago.
Click to expand...

And therein lies the catalyst of fundamentalism.
 
gangababa

gangababa

Well-Known Member
DDave said:
:peace: ...

Am sure many of us are familiar with what is in the bible.... but how about what's left out?

Lost Books of the Bible
Forgotten Books of Eden
Gospel of Judas :o

All good reads!
Click to expand...

How different Christianity would be if we at least prioritized the red letter quoted words of Jesus as seen in Catholic Bibles.
Three Gospels and Acts (John is suspect)
Jesus, not Paul

For 2000 years Christianity has struggled to join the old and new scriptures with their differences.
Both god and religion are presented in confused and contradictory memes.

Vedic theology has been working for 3-5 times as long with a significantly larger database of primary sources constituting a surprisingly consistent theology.
None-the-less conflicting interpretations are pushed.
There are those who believe God alone is and all else is only as though- think mirage.
Other think that in addition to 'Limitless-Infinite-God', there also is something else- think of looking at a god's back in heaven.

As a teaching method, the Vedic model works because it is based on the one truth that needs no proof
(anyone can do the experiments to demonstrate this truth).
"I know I Am" My existence is self-evident to me and needs no confirmation.
Self-evident Awareness is non-negatable.
Objects of knowledge (the world of science) may be negated or explained at another level; not a solid table but rather spacial atoms; not a snake in the grass but rather a lanyard on the lawn.

What logical argument or scientific proof can negate your Existent-Sentient-Self?
Bodies, minds, memories, desires, objects of knowledge change.
The you as observer-witness to the changes is constant.
Our memories go in old age and at birth.
Not remembering doesn't meant "I AM" is or was or could ever be absent.
However, Ganga Baba is temporary.
 
gangababa,
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jackmormon

jackmormon

Well-Known Member
I am a Mormon.

As the great Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley said (televised).....the Book of Mormon contains the FULL and COMPLETE testimony of Jesus Smith. It is the true word of God, revealed through his Prophet.

I believe that the God Elohim (in charge of planet Earth) lives on a planet near the great start Kolob where he fornicates with his wives. These wives give birth to Spirit Babies who live in the realm of pre-mortal existence where they do battle with the Devil. The most valiant of the Spirit Babies are born into "white and delightsome" families here on planet Earth. The not so valiant get born into not so white families.

I also strongly believe in the Doctrine of Eternal Progression. See....by following this path laid out by the Prophet I have the potential to become a God and have my own planet one of these days. God became God by being a Mormon on another planet. Having multiple wives (now discouraged) and many children (still encouraged) help this progression. The Sacred Garments (aka Mormon underwear) are a requirement.

When I was married to my wife in the temple we were each given a sacred name. When we are both dead, I will have the option of "calling her from the grave" to join me in the Celestial Kingdom to help me down the path and become a Goddess when I become a God. Or maybe I will choose not to "call her from the grave." It is my choice, and she knows it.




PS-I don't really believe any of this. My ancestors did. I survived the indoctrination and became the un-Mormon. People of my ilk are commonly known as Jackmormons :o
 
M

mestizo

Well-Known Member
waxdab23 said:
There was a book (Qur'an) revealed after the Bible that confirmed all that was in it and the Torah, as well as what was removed from them. The Qur'an is free from defects and has not been altered or had anything removed from it since the time it was divinely inspired upon Muhammad thousands of years ago.
Click to expand...
I disagree,
Below is one of many contradictions between the Qur'an and the Torah.

Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”
Gen. 22:2

See, Muslims believe it was Ishmael, not Isaac.
What's interesting is that God said, " your only son "
Meaning Ishmael wasn't a legitimate son, remember he was the son Abraham had with the servant, not the wife.
 
mestizo,
waxdab23

waxdab23

Well-Known Member
mestizo said:
I disagree,
Below is one of many contradictions between the Qur'an and the Torah.

Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”
Gen. 22:2

See, Muslims believe it was Ishmael, not Isaac.
What's interesting is that God said, " your only son "
Meaning Ishmael wasn't a legitimate son, remember he was the son Abraham had with the servant, not the wife.
Click to expand...

The Encyclopaedia Judaica says:

It is related that a renowned traditionalist of Jewish origin, from the Qurayza tribe, and another Jewish scholar, who converted to Islam, told that Caliph Omar Ibn 'Abd al-Aziz (717-20) that the Jews were well informed that Ismail was the one who was bound, but that they concealed this out of jealousy.

Encyclopaedia Judaica, Volume 9, Encyclopaedia Judaica Jerusalem, pp. 82 (Under 'Ishmael').

Reported by Ibn Ishaaq: "Muhammad Ibn Ka'b narrated that 'Umar Ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz sent for a man who had been a Jew then converted to Islam and showed signs of true Islam. [Before his conversion], he was one of their scholars [i.e., he was a Jewish scholar] So he [i.e., 'Umar] asked him: which son did Abraham (P) sacrifice? He replied: 'It is Ishmael(P). By God, O Commander of the Believers, the Jews know that but they envy you - the Arabs.'

Also regarding the legitimacy of Ishmael as a son, from the Torah...

Deuteronomy 21:15-17:"If a man have two wives, one beloved and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hash, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hash: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his."
 
M

mestizo

Well-Known Member
waxdab23 said:
The Encyclopaedia Judaica says:

It is related that a renowned traditionalist of Jewish origin, from the Qurayza tribe, and another Jewish scholar, who converted to Islam, told that Caliph Omar Ibn 'Abd al-Aziz (717-20) that the Jews were well informed that Ismail was the one who was bound, but that they concealed this out of jealousy.

Encyclopaedia Judaica, Volume 9, Encyclopaedia Judaica Jerusalem, pp. 82 (Under 'Ishmael').

Reported by Ibn Ishaaq: "Muhammad Ibn Ka'b narrated that 'Umar Ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz sent for a man who had been a Jew then converted to Islam and showed signs of true Islam. [Before his conversion], he was one of their scholars [i.e., he was a Jewish scholar] So he [i.e., 'Umar] asked him: which son did Abraham (P) sacrifice? He replied: 'It is Ishmael(P). By God, O Commander of the Believers, the Jews know that but they envy you - the Arabs.'

Also regarding the legitimacy of Ishmael as a son, from the Torah...

Deuteronomy 21:15-17:"If a man have two wives, one beloved and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hash, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hash: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his."
Click to expand...
Exactly my point.
So, the Qur'an and the Torah contradict each other.
It really doesn't matter what this or that expert thinks, or said.

Edit: I never said I knew which son he took, I'm not a scholar, I only said that that there was a disagreement, and I quoted the Torah to prove that.
 
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