The Nomad From Morwood
- Thread starter Dan Morrison
- Start date
@phattpiggie , haha! oh man..
Welp, Easter holidays are over, So I have to get back to Okin making. I'll let all this simmer a bit.
Welp, Easter holidays are over, So I have to get back to Okin making. I'll let all this simmer a bit.
I posted the LHS picture a long time ago of a steampunk hookah and Dan's sketches made me think of it again. I know it's probably not everyone's idea of where this artisan device should go but if you have a look around at some of the stuff these people produce some of the craftsmanship may translate.
As for the heater, who knows, the more complex the more to break. The more time the hot air spends spinning around the more heat energy could be lost. The reclaim thing also needs to be taken into account. Where will it all go and how easy will the finished article be to keep clean. Will it be on board water or adaptable.
As the size/stealth thing doesn't seem to be an issue how about making little flat basket bowl ? Two of these with the herb in between offering the maximum surface area to the hot air. No stirring. Something 20-30mm in diameter but with a herb chamber that's 3-4mm thick. Just guessing on sizes. They could be pre-filled and loaded into an airtight bespoke wood sleeve. The vortex, heat exchange, louvre stuff could be used to help get an even distribution of hot air across the whole surface.
As for the heater, who knows, the more complex the more to break. The more time the hot air spends spinning around the more heat energy could be lost. The reclaim thing also needs to be taken into account. Where will it all go and how easy will the finished article be to keep clean. Will it be on board water or adaptable.
As the size/stealth thing doesn't seem to be an issue how about making little flat basket bowl ? Two of these with the herb in between offering the maximum surface area to the hot air. No stirring. Something 20-30mm in diameter but with a herb chamber that's 3-4mm thick. Just guessing on sizes. They could be pre-filled and loaded into an airtight bespoke wood sleeve. The vortex, heat exchange, louvre stuff could be used to help get an even distribution of hot air across the whole surface.
@phattpiggie , ha! Those are wild. Reminds me of a hookah I made in University as a metal working project. It had a built in fan to continuously draw smoke from the bowl and shoot it into the glass dome. The bowl was lit with it's own oil lamp, and the smoke also went through an active carbon filter box. The fan was run off a battery bank so the entire thing was portable. And it lit up from inside the glass dome, illuminating the entire room with that wicked pattern. The thing was madness and I would never actually smoke out of it on a regular basis.. but it was neat at the time!
Also, I think you're absolutely right about keeping it more simple.. I tend to start complicated, then simplify. Ideally I want as few moving parts as possible. And cleaning a vortex bowl..with all those fins..and..the airflow needed to run the damn thing... ah I just don't know.
And your chamber sizing seems about right, wide, but flat/ Def. the way to go. And I am thinking adaptable to water.
I think I'll post some more drawings later tonight...
Also, I think you're absolutely right about keeping it more simple.. I tend to start complicated, then simplify. Ideally I want as few moving parts as possible. And cleaning a vortex bowl..with all those fins..and..the airflow needed to run the damn thing... ah I just don't know.
And your chamber sizing seems about right, wide, but flat/ Def. the way to go. And I am thinking adaptable to water.
I think I'll post some more drawings later tonight...
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I think I'd like to continue the whole charcoal thing... I still think it's amazing how much heat can be harvested from such a tiny thing that weighs almost nothing. I think with the right device it could really feel very futuristic.
I am going to look at using charcoal as part of a heat exchanger that is fed via an electric microfan.
The airspeed would roughly regulate the burn temperature of the charcoal, while keeping it lit in a closed chamber (hopefully glass, so we can see the ember!), the air would pass over the charcoal, then through a heat exchanger that would then transfer heat into the inhaled air stream.
This could potentially be implemented into a pocketable device I think.
One huge advantage of charcoal fuel is that it's self insulating, and has a huge surface area. I think this is what gives it such good heat transfer into an air steam. So it could efficiently give up its heat without sinking too much into the enclosure and the rest of the device.
Liquid/compressed fuels have much more potential heat output, but flames are hard to aim, contain, and regulate in a portable device...and also make it look good and be reliable.
A tiny butane torch in place of charcoal could work.. Getting it to work in a pocketable device would be very challenging I think. Or maybe some sort of forced air (microfan) alcohol burner..
I am going to look at using charcoal as part of a heat exchanger that is fed via an electric microfan.
The airspeed would roughly regulate the burn temperature of the charcoal, while keeping it lit in a closed chamber (hopefully glass, so we can see the ember!), the air would pass over the charcoal, then through a heat exchanger that would then transfer heat into the inhaled air stream.
This could potentially be implemented into a pocketable device I think.
One huge advantage of charcoal fuel is that it's self insulating, and has a huge surface area. I think this is what gives it such good heat transfer into an air steam. So it could efficiently give up its heat without sinking too much into the enclosure and the rest of the device.
Liquid/compressed fuels have much more potential heat output, but flames are hard to aim, contain, and regulate in a portable device...and also make it look good and be reliable.
A tiny butane torch in place of charcoal could work.. Getting it to work in a pocketable device would be very challenging I think. Or maybe some sort of forced air (microfan) alcohol burner..
Okay, So I've been playing around with some ideas...
I think I'm going with electronic. I want this thing to be as easy and fast to use as packing and sparking a pipe. And a charcoal heat exchanger + fan...while it could work..will definitely not be without some set-up time.
I have not figured out the heating element design yet, but that's for later.
Here some concept work instead. This design would be a single 18650, unregulated most likely, but if I can make it fit, regulated would be nice.
Battery, the orange tube, would be side loaded like a bullet into a barrel. I'd like to make a thin sleeve for the battery out of my kraft paper laminate (same used for the box sleeve on the Okin). Which would be kept raw, or painted, along with some sci-fi futuristic writing or stamped graphics on there...
The orange glowing light could be LED..but I want it to be dim.. so glow in the dark paint could suffice, or tritium vials (but they are pricey).
Shown here with fumed glass mouthpiece.. could be straight glass or wood as well.
You can ignore the Japanese writing/labels, it's just for show, hahah.
Going for a Blade Runner..Deckard's blaster sort of vibe.
I think I'm going with electronic. I want this thing to be as easy and fast to use as packing and sparking a pipe. And a charcoal heat exchanger + fan...while it could work..will definitely not be without some set-up time.
I have not figured out the heating element design yet, but that's for later.
Here some concept work instead. This design would be a single 18650, unregulated most likely, but if I can make it fit, regulated would be nice.
Battery, the orange tube, would be side loaded like a bullet into a barrel. I'd like to make a thin sleeve for the battery out of my kraft paper laminate (same used for the box sleeve on the Okin). Which would be kept raw, or painted, along with some sci-fi futuristic writing or stamped graphics on there...
The orange glowing light could be LED..but I want it to be dim.. so glow in the dark paint could suffice, or tritium vials (but they are pricey).
Shown here with fumed glass mouthpiece.. could be straight glass or wood as well.
You can ignore the Japanese writing/labels, it's just for show, hahah.
Going for a Blade Runner..Deckard's blaster sort of vibe.
YungLeaner
Well-Known Member
Love the look and think it's very doable. As for heating elements I noticed you've spent some time recently in the DIY 510 threads, any inspiration taken from there re: the element design?Okay, So I've been playing around with some ideas...
I think I'm going with electronic. I want this thing to be as easy and fast to use as packing and sparking a pipe. And a charcoal heat exchanger + fan...while it could work..will definitely not be without some set-up time.
I have not figured out the heating element design yet, but that's for later.
Here some concept work instead. This design would be a single 18650, unregulated most likely, but if I can make it fit, regulated would be nice.
Battery, the orange tube, would be side loaded like a bullet into a barrel. I'd like to make a thin sleeve for the battery out of my kraft paper laminate (same used for the box sleeve on the Okin). Which would be kept raw, or painted, along with some sci-fi futuristic writing or stamped graphics on there...
The orange glowing light could be LED..but I want it to be dim.. so glow in the dark paint could suffice, or tritium vials (but they are pricey).
Shown here with fumed glass mouthpiece.. could be straight glass or wood as well.
You can ignore the Japanese writing/labels, it's just for show, hahah.
Going for a Blade Runner..Deckard's blaster sort of vibe.
@YungLeaner , I did get some ideas. But with a single battery setup I am going to be more limited.
The design could get a lot bigger..and a lot more complicated, real fast. But I just don't want to go there right now. And I think that once the DIY 510 guys figure it all out, that's going to blow the doors wide open for really great, performance driven, DIY herb vaporizers for all.
So I am thinking that instead of going for pure performance. I would go more for usability, aesthetics, feel, and portability.
For the heater element, one idea would be to take a ceramic auger shaped core, wrap it with a long coil, then press fit the auger core into a tight fitting outer tube of mica or glass. The air path would be a spiral with the heating element. Though, the ceramic core may prove to be too massive, leading to heat loss and longer heat up time.
Here is that auger shape I was talking about...
For the incoming air, I would like to bring the air down from the mouthpiece, in an outer shell tube. So the incoming air both cools the airway/outgoing vapour, and gets preheated as it moves past the herb chamber and heater. Though.. a double wall tube will prove complicated around the connection areas... but I like the idea.
The design could get a lot bigger..and a lot more complicated, real fast. But I just don't want to go there right now. And I think that once the DIY 510 guys figure it all out, that's going to blow the doors wide open for really great, performance driven, DIY herb vaporizers for all.
So I am thinking that instead of going for pure performance. I would go more for usability, aesthetics, feel, and portability.
For the heater element, one idea would be to take a ceramic auger shaped core, wrap it with a long coil, then press fit the auger core into a tight fitting outer tube of mica or glass. The air path would be a spiral with the heating element. Though, the ceramic core may prove to be too massive, leading to heat loss and longer heat up time.
Here is that auger shape I was talking about...
For the incoming air, I would like to bring the air down from the mouthpiece, in an outer shell tube. So the incoming air both cools the airway/outgoing vapour, and gets preheated as it moves past the herb chamber and heater. Though.. a double wall tube will prove complicated around the connection areas... but I like the idea.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Ah this thread is glorious Dan, just love watching you work, the evolution over just a couple pages is entrancing, could read your ideas all day... Digging the largest ideas vibe, but agreed ceramic could be a big heat, taking a lot of that battery's power quickly unfortunately, but it looks awesome, and would be probably for a plug in model perhaps? Then you are not limited like a battery or flame, but you are tethered unfortunately... Battery pack is always a nice option there though, best of both worlds perhaps? For electronic power at least.
Keep it up my man
Keep it up my man
natural farmer
Well-Known Member
Maybe going for copper instead of ceramic? Fast heat up, fast cooling? Isn't the Grasshopper heater also copper or some similar 3d printed metal? It sure can hold its heat from what I am reading... Spiral airpath sure plays a role there as well.@YungLeaner , I did get some ideas. But with a single battery setup I am going to be more limited.
The design could get a lot bigger..and a lot more complicated, real fast. But I just don't want to go there right now. And I think that once the DIY 510 guys figure it all out, that's going to blow the doors wide open for really great, performance driven, DIY herb vaporizers for all.
So I am thinking that instead of going for pure performance. I would go more for usability, aesthetics, feel, and portability.
For the heater element, one idea would be to take a ceramic auger shaped core, wrap it with a long coil, then press fit the auger core into a tight fitting outer tube of mica or glass. The air path would be a spiral with the heating element. Though, the ceramic core may prove to be too massive, leading to heat loss and longer heat up time.
Here is that auger shape I was talking about...
For the incoming air, I would like to bring the air down from the mouthpiece, in an outer shell tube. So the incoming air both cools the airway/outgoing vapour, and gets preheated as it moves past the herb chamber and heater. Though.. a double wall tube will prove complicated around the connection areas... but I like the idea.
As far as I understand it, a copper core would short the element. And Ideally I don't want any heat sink at all, I want all of the heat from the coil to go into the air stream. But I could also be missing an important factor..and I need to experiment. I'm just going off what seems to work best in other designs.
Another idea would be a flat coil made out of ribbon wire. The coil could be sandwiched between two thin sheets of mica. The air would come in at the side, entering the coil, and the path of least resistance would take the air through the spiral winding, as if navigating a maze, and into the center where it would exit into the herb chamber.
Here's an idea of what that coil might look like..
Another idea would be a flat coil made out of ribbon wire. The coil could be sandwiched between two thin sheets of mica. The air would come in at the side, entering the coil, and the path of least resistance would take the air through the spiral winding, as if navigating a maze, and into the center where it would exit into the herb chamber.
Here's an idea of what that coil might look like..
Breathemetal
Well-Known Member
Just woah
18650's in series would give a much bigger power range. 2 batteries side by side don't take up as much room in the hand as you would think. I like the ribbon coil but how about making it wider. The foto you posted looks like it's a couple of mm how about making it 10mm or more. This would give the heater a much bigger surface area whilst still occupying the same diameter. Just a bit deeper.
virtualpurple
Well-Known Member
I like the idea of going electric with this one. I'm a fan of the concept, but not sure that I'd end up embracing charcoal.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
Stay this guy! This is what keeps me coming back. The world is full of people trying to get the performance just right, and there are always detractors no matter how good it is. Your work and this thread are a reminder to me that we can enjoy the aesthetics as much as, if not more than, the performance. Honestly, I get completely stoked about what you are working on, and I couldn't care less about the performance!
friedrich
Little-Known Member
Amazing concepts @Dan!
What kind of UI are you imagining, just a trigger button, or some sort of heat level selector, ...?
Have you looked at the Firewood v3?
With my angled mouthpiece attachment, it even almost looks a bit like your drawing, if not nearly as good...
But more importantly, it heats in about ten seconds and vaporizes really well using a steel coil, so it's definitely doable!
What kind of UI are you imagining, just a trigger button, or some sort of heat level selector, ...?
Have you looked at the Firewood v3?
With my angled mouthpiece attachment, it even almost looks a bit like your drawing, if not nearly as good...
But more importantly, it heats in about ten seconds and vaporizes really well using a steel coil, so it's definitely doable!
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Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
I like the direction that you've taken with the style of both your concepts.
Would 2 18350's provide the electrical head-room to employ more robust heating than 1X18650?
I know they might not provide much in the way of capacity, but a nifty 'magazine' of a few 18350's would vastly extend runtime for longer trips, and provide another design opportunity.
A compact but powerful vape for short days, combined with a complimentary battery caddy of a similar size for those longer journeys.
On an entirely different subject; have you seen Kilby's Dab Bulb?:
http://www.dabbulb.com/
There's nothing like it for sheer invention in my learned opinion, save one thing........the Okin.
EDIT. Oh, and the VapCap.....and the Zion
So....three things.......four ...if you count the Dab Bulb.
Four.......
.....four things...........in total.
No more.
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AJS
Calm Consistency
It's hard for the supreme v3 to not come to mind. 1.5feet of air travel through a heater. No better way to ensure your hit holds heat, than to have it backed up by a foot and a half of hot air.
RBT went for the massive surface area heater into a small vapor path, to ensure all the air is heated and poured through the herb, grasshopper added turbulence to ensure their small (but powerful) heater managed to evenly vape the entire load, and the supreme went the route of forcing their air through a 1.5ft heater maze, instead of passing over it, as most vapes do. Definitely seems to be one of the most genius heaters out there. Managing to do that with electricity instead of butane, a massive path for the air to gain heat, would be impressive in a unit. It would seem that no matter how hard you pulled, it would be almost impossible to cool the air down enough, as it's constantly passing through the hot walls of that heater. This would allow for that automatic tossing of the bowl, if you were still after that. Something where you could pull hard enough to toss the bowl, but still able to keep the air hot enough to vape.
Something like the arizer air or solo have a pretty small ceramic heater that surrounds and heats the glass stem which carries the herb. It gets to temp, it holds the temp, but any owner will tell you that if you pull even slightly too hard, the heater can't keep up. While the purpose of the unit isn't to pull hard, and we know that, it still helps get across what I'm trying to say.
Getting the air to hit the heater for a longer period of time than just passing over it, will make for a more powerful experience I believe.
So many wonderful ideas for heaters.
RBT went for the massive surface area heater into a small vapor path, to ensure all the air is heated and poured through the herb, grasshopper added turbulence to ensure their small (but powerful) heater managed to evenly vape the entire load, and the supreme went the route of forcing their air through a 1.5ft heater maze, instead of passing over it, as most vapes do. Definitely seems to be one of the most genius heaters out there. Managing to do that with electricity instead of butane, a massive path for the air to gain heat, would be impressive in a unit. It would seem that no matter how hard you pulled, it would be almost impossible to cool the air down enough, as it's constantly passing through the hot walls of that heater. This would allow for that automatic tossing of the bowl, if you were still after that. Something where you could pull hard enough to toss the bowl, but still able to keep the air hot enough to vape.
Something like the arizer air or solo have a pretty small ceramic heater that surrounds and heats the glass stem which carries the herb. It gets to temp, it holds the temp, but any owner will tell you that if you pull even slightly too hard, the heater can't keep up. While the purpose of the unit isn't to pull hard, and we know that, it still helps get across what I'm trying to say.
Getting the air to hit the heater for a longer period of time than just passing over it, will make for a more powerful experience I believe.
So many wonderful ideas for heaters.
@phattpiggie - I think there will definitely be a sweet spot for the width of the flat wire. No idea what that would be yet...
@stickstones , Thanks!
@friedrich , I'm not sure yet, it depends on the battery configuration I go with. For a single battery, it may be best to go unregulated. For two batteries, most likely a variable voltage buck converter (OKR chip).
I don't plan on having any sort of OLED or voltage up/down buttons, just a simple analog dial. I would really like to do a linear slider pot, but I'm not sure it will fit. It would be super cool to have a slider for voltage control though.
Other than that, just a simple on/off switch, and fire button.
I've looked at the FW3, but not in detail. I like the vibe, seems like a popular device. Nice and simple.
@Copacetic , Hmmm, that's interesting.. so you would use the 18650 when you want more power, but the stacked 18350s for perhaps a lower temperature but more efficient regulation via a buck converter? Or something like that...
I'll investigate further, but from what I've seen that sort of setup (stacked 18350s) has little advantage over a single 18650. Especially when you consider that battery tech has been focused on the 18650 cell, so they will be the most advanced. Again, I still have a lot to learn about this subject, so I will definitely look into it more! It's a neat concept.
Just for sake of comparison, I quickly mocked up the same design, but using two 18650s. I think that having the two 18650s will be a huge performance boost, vs. the relatively small increase in size. However it may prove to be just a bit wide in the hand... It looks okay on paper though. With the rounded profile it might just work!
Here are two versions, one with two kraft paper tubes over their own battery, and the other with a single kraft paper shell that holds two batteries together. I think that the single shell would be best, it looks cooler IMO, and shaves off a few mm in size.
And YES, I've seen that dab bulb. So neat!!
@AJS , Yeah you gutta love that design. I imagine he has a shit ton of fins on the inside of that box, forcing the air to snake back and forth between the fins... if that makes sense.
The best heater is obviously one that transfers all of the heat from the coil, directly to the air, and then to the herb. I feel as though any vaporizer that gets very hot to the touch, has some efficiency gains to be had. Not that they are bad designs at all.. but just that heat lost to the environment is heat that's being wasted.
There are materials out there, like Mycalex, that have some properties I think we could take advantage of.
Also, I would like to perhaps incorporate a smaller herb chamber with this design... but make it very quick and easy to swap out the load. Each load could last a single hit.
As odd as that sounds, I think it could potentially increase performance and taste through a session. Every hit would be that glorious first hit taste, and you wouldn't need a whole wack of heat to soak a deep chamber. You could concentrate the heater in a smaller space.
To be practical, the load has to be SO easy and fast to switch that it could be done one handed in the time it takes to exhale your last draw... that alone could prove to be a huge design challenge.... so we will see about that, heh. PEZ comes to mind...haha.
@stickstones , Thanks!
@friedrich , I'm not sure yet, it depends on the battery configuration I go with. For a single battery, it may be best to go unregulated. For two batteries, most likely a variable voltage buck converter (OKR chip).
I don't plan on having any sort of OLED or voltage up/down buttons, just a simple analog dial. I would really like to do a linear slider pot, but I'm not sure it will fit. It would be super cool to have a slider for voltage control though.
Other than that, just a simple on/off switch, and fire button.
I've looked at the FW3, but not in detail. I like the vibe, seems like a popular device. Nice and simple.
@Copacetic , Hmmm, that's interesting.. so you would use the 18650 when you want more power, but the stacked 18350s for perhaps a lower temperature but more efficient regulation via a buck converter? Or something like that...
I'll investigate further, but from what I've seen that sort of setup (stacked 18350s) has little advantage over a single 18650. Especially when you consider that battery tech has been focused on the 18650 cell, so they will be the most advanced. Again, I still have a lot to learn about this subject, so I will definitely look into it more! It's a neat concept.
Just for sake of comparison, I quickly mocked up the same design, but using two 18650s. I think that having the two 18650s will be a huge performance boost, vs. the relatively small increase in size. However it may prove to be just a bit wide in the hand... It looks okay on paper though. With the rounded profile it might just work!
Here are two versions, one with two kraft paper tubes over their own battery, and the other with a single kraft paper shell that holds two batteries together. I think that the single shell would be best, it looks cooler IMO, and shaves off a few mm in size.
And YES, I've seen that dab bulb. So neat!!
@AJS , Yeah you gutta love that design. I imagine he has a shit ton of fins on the inside of that box, forcing the air to snake back and forth between the fins... if that makes sense.
The best heater is obviously one that transfers all of the heat from the coil, directly to the air, and then to the herb. I feel as though any vaporizer that gets very hot to the touch, has some efficiency gains to be had. Not that they are bad designs at all.. but just that heat lost to the environment is heat that's being wasted.
There are materials out there, like Mycalex, that have some properties I think we could take advantage of.
Also, I would like to perhaps incorporate a smaller herb chamber with this design... but make it very quick and easy to swap out the load. Each load could last a single hit.
As odd as that sounds, I think it could potentially increase performance and taste through a session. Every hit would be that glorious first hit taste, and you wouldn't need a whole wack of heat to soak a deep chamber. You could concentrate the heater in a smaller space.
To be practical, the load has to be SO easy and fast to switch that it could be done one handed in the time it takes to exhale your last draw... that alone could prove to be a huge design challenge.... so we will see about that, heh. PEZ comes to mind...haha.
The Stranger
Account Closed
This is getting more exciting by the day. 
NickDlow
Log Hog
Looks like something some woodland fairytale creature would be puffing on....
I love it!
YungLeaner
Well-Known Member
I don't even own an Okin but after reading this thread I've decided my life goal is to build a little cabin with a space heater and fireplace in northern California somewhere and I can just sit back, read, write, and vape on Dan Morrison creations...they just seem conducive to a Thoreau lifestyle, you know?
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
Hmm, I'm not against large handheld vapes, I like the look of the Apollo, and love the Zion, but I think that If a vape has a single 18650 sized battery option I'm much more tempted.
e.g. I've ordered a Millana before I eventually get a Zion, and that decision wasn't entirely based on the lower cost, I like the size better.
Your current thinking looks to be about Mighty sized, not necessarily bad, but if a smaller form factor could be achieved I think I'd be more excited (for a portable).
I suppose a 'table vape' has appeal too though (as opposed to a 'pocket' vape), and if the double battery makes better electrical sense I guess I'm in.
BTW, how many batt's does Ville's Apollo have?
Would I be right to describe that as being between the Crafty and Mighty in size?
e.g. I've ordered a Millana before I eventually get a Zion, and that decision wasn't entirely based on the lower cost, I like the size better.
Your current thinking looks to be about Mighty sized, not necessarily bad, but if a smaller form factor could be achieved I think I'd be more excited (for a portable).
I suppose a 'table vape' has appeal too though (as opposed to a 'pocket' vape), and if the double battery makes better electrical sense I guess I'm in.
BTW, how many batt's does Ville's Apollo have?
Would I be right to describe that as being between the Crafty and Mighty in size?
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Apollo uses two as well actually, button tops, so similar to Zion (which uses flattops though), but Apollo seems sleeker aye?
Yeah since this is more style, again I support going plug in so your not restricted by the rest, but I can understand wanting to make it a portable.... Hence why I say battery pack as well, this is what MistVape has done
Perhaps a two battery pack like the concept above, but a drop in plug in power pack too? I guess you don't need both necessarily, but I don't know, so much is still so open ended here
