The NEWS !!

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grokit

well-worn member
Both Dilma and her predecessor Luis Ignacio "Lula" da Silva rose to power as outsiders fighting for the little guy. They implemented a "no hunger" policy that has brought millions out of poverty and their recent economic boom has started to build a viable middle class.
:peace:
Okay so still fucked up but slowly showing improvement.
Not fast enough though if winning second place is reason enough to toss her on her ass!
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I was a child in the 50s so my memory only tells me the times were milder, but my reading (and 60s conversations) informs the observation that stresses were way lower. The fear of the bomb, and the manufactured fear of communism were the worst of it. The world was MUCH larger and things that happened "overseas" didn't effect us here as quickly if at all. Not so today. Someone sneezes in China today and you have to wipe your nose.

The point is there has never been a greater need to get involved and make sure your interests are, at least, considered. Otherwise other interests will rule and the chances are they will be very different than yours. And without pushback they will even get to believe that no one else cares or their desires are universal.

I'm not saying that we can stop the money steamroller flattening the path forward, I'm just saying that quiescence in this case is NOT a virtue, it is a sentence. And every step we make that empowers "average people" over the very rich, while a struggle, serves the greater good.

To your other point, I think we would likely have a different perspective on nearly everything if we were black...

Edit: After rereading I wanted to add that many of my positions on things would likely not change, but my perspective and potentially my reasoning likely would. And while I am angry and frustrated about some things (like the greater chance of going to prison for crimes I might commit while black) being an actual target of that unfairness would necessarily change how I felt about it.
 
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t-dub

Vapor Sloth
Well, looks like Malaysia Airlines lost another Boeing 777 today. It appears that it was SHOT DOWN at altitude over Ukraine by Russian separatists. It appears a Russian Buk-M2 (Russian: "Бук"; English: beech, pron.: /bʊk/ BOOK) ground to air missile was used.

 

grokit

well-worn member
A key question now is whether the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine have access to the kind of missile systems that could reach a plane flying at high altitude.

The separatists have denied having any such systems. But the Associated Press is reporting that one of its journalists saw a launcher that resembled a Russian BUK system - the kind the Ukrainian goverment says carried out the strike - near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier today. The Russian network TV Zvezda, the news network for the Russian military, did report that a Buk fell to separatist hands on June 29th.

Several of the other missile launch systems possessed by the separatists can also reach considerable height - for example the 9K38, can reach up to 11,000 feet.

17.25 More images of possible wreckage are circulating on Twitter.

It must be stressed that we cannot verify the authenticity of these.

crash_01_2978498c.jpg


edit:

Peter Lapso 17.07.2014 16:54
"Ukrainian AA systems BUK M1 and BUK M2 are fully automatic if activated. We know that freedom fighters have some aircrafts. Not long time ago Porosh declared no fly zone over east UA. There is total chaos in UA and right ain't know what is doing left hand. If someone, drunk soldiers-Ukrainians are top drunkards-activated BUK try to hit freedom fighters plane it shot down their own and most likely this one. Not long time ago one of fascists in Rada lamented how inteligence provided false infos. If info was that FF are gona fly their plane then BUK was activated. I see it like that if it was shot down"
 
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t-dub

Vapor Sloth
Little early to be calling who shot that and exactly what was used. No?
Not really. They know the flight track of the plane, where it was when it was hit, and the missile track of what hit it from satellite information that detected the launch. The debris field covers 9 miles they say.
 
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Caligula

Maximus
That may lend to what but not whom.

But who knows? Maybe you're correct. Early media reports of major events are almost never wrong.
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
Well, looks like Malaysia Airlines lost another Boeing 777 today. It appears that it was SHOT DOWN at altitude over Ukraine by Russian separatists. It appears a Russian Buk-M2 (Russian: "Бук"; English: beech, pron.: /bʊk/ BOOK) ground to air missile was used.


To what purpose would this serve the Russian Separatists? Do they consider Malaysia or the folks in Amsterdam as their enemies? I don't get it.
 

Caligula

Maximus
To what purpose would this serve the Russian Separatists? Do they consider Malaysia or the folks in Amsterdam as their enemies? I don't get it.

The theory (I assume) is that it's a case of mistaken identity. Pretty sure it's not super easy to ID something flying at 30+k feet.
 
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t-dub

Vapor Sloth
To what purpose would this serve the Russian Separatists? Do they consider Malaysia or the folks in Amsterdam as their enemies? I don't get it.
The theory (I assume) is that it's a case of mistaken identity. Pretty sure it's not super easy to ID something flying at 30+k feet.
Mistaken ID is the most likely scenario. They shot down another plane earlier where the pilot ejected safely, that is a fact. The "rumor" is they thought it was a Ukrainian cargo plane. The pictures of the debris field are coming in, body parts everywhere . . .
 
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Caligula

Maximus
Not very many people can shoot down a plane at that altitude. So if not the separatists it would have to be the Russian Military. But is there any difference ?


Who knows? Soviet Russian surplus has been floating around that region since the USSR fell.

And how long before we get the jobs coming in saying that the CIA did this to foster international disdain for the Russians?

Obama did it. It's only a matter of time.

They shot down another plane earlier where the pilot ejected safely, that is a fact. The "rumor" is they thought it was a Ukrainian cargo plane. The pictures of the debris field are coming in, body parts everywhere . . .

I Googled that. It's unconfirmed still, but the report is that it was a Ukrainian military jet that was shot down by an air to air missile.
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
The theory (I assume) is that it's a case of mistaken identity. Pretty sure it's not super easy to ID something flying at 30+k feet.

Yeah, I agree. I just posted the first thing that came into my head when I saw that headline.

But if you can't identify what in the hell you are shooting at, why.....................achhh.......nevermind. Fucking senseless.
 

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
I don't think the person in this photo really cares anymore who shot the missile and then couldn't turn it off . . .

Bswkx0XCMAAOGF9.jpg:large
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
I wonder how long it will be before commercial airliners are equipped with ECM. I'm kinda surprised that it isn't mandatory that they are equipped with this as of yet for this scenario was only a matter of time.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
Why the fuck would you take civilians through an active kill zone where a couple of planes have been shot down in the last couple weeks?

Very valid question.

Being that surface-to-air missiles have been provided by Russia to the separatists as well as training in how to use them, Russian officials must be pulling their hair out right about now.

Edit: Word is now that the plane diverted from it's normal flight path to try to dodge a thunderstorm. BAD CHOICE. A classic example of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, eh?
 
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t-dub

Vapor Sloth
Being that surface-to-air missiles have been provided by Russia to the separatists as well as training in how to use them, Russian officials must be pulling their hair out right about now.
Yes. It will be interesting to see what Putin has to say.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
Yes. It will be interesting to see what Putin has to say.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the room where the discussions on this event are taking place in Russia between Putin, the military and their PR-Spin machine. Bet it's fucking intense right about now.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
Is there any evidence that this plane was shot down? I've seen plenty of speculation about surface-to-air missiles and even fighter jets taking this jetliner down, but I think all we know for sure is it crashed.

Have any eyewitnesses come forward, so we can attack their credibility?
 
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