The MMA Discussion Dojo
- Thread starter stonemonkey55
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Chucku - that is exactly the point, he didn't win with his wrestling, he won with his jiu-jitsu. There are no submissions in catch style/freestyle wrestling. Sure you have moves like the banana splits or a crossface that could do damage but submissions aren't something wrestlers are prone to. Most wrestling based MMA fighters (Hughes, Simpson, Velazquez) tend to be ground n pounders as opposed to submission artists. What Brock has shown thus far in his MMA career is amateurish looking boxing with devastating ground and pound. While an arm triangle wouldn't be considered an advanced submission, I would say its probably the 6th likeliest submission behind rear naked chokes, armbars, americanas, triangle choke, darce choke, and guillotines (in no specific order) which is why I was not only surprised he won with a submission, but also with that particular hold.
@chucku - Hey man, I'm sorry for ranting, I didn't know you were more of a casual fan. As you can tell, I am absolutely MANIACAL when it comes to MMA. Probably cause I wish I were 10 years younger so I could compete in it but since I am not Randy Couture, I just watch at home and analyze and analyze.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
That was my first ppv mma fight. I was not disappointed...the co-main event was a good fight, too.
Sticks! glad that you liked it! If you watch more, you will begin to see that MMA is really human chess at its finest. If you remember the co-main event, Akiyama v Leben, Leben worked the MMA version of "rope a dope" to its finest. As the naturally bigger man, he knew that he could wear down Akiyama the longer it went and in the end, he baited Akiyama into dropping his head perfectly into a triangle submission.
It can be the most brutal looking sport, but to me, it is the most beautiful. Fighting really brings out the true character of a person. I used to think of Brock as a bully, one who could dominate but if anyone pushes back, he would fold. He proved that he had the resolve of a true warrior and never had his will broken underneath Carwin. I tend to think that it is easy to do the "right" thing in a casual situation but when you have to make split second decisions in the most unforgiving of circumstances, then you see the true character of a man come out...
It can be the most brutal looking sport, but to me, it is the most beautiful. Fighting really brings out the true character of a person. I used to think of Brock as a bully, one who could dominate but if anyone pushes back, he would fold. He proved that he had the resolve of a true warrior and never had his will broken underneath Carwin. I tend to think that it is easy to do the "right" thing in a casual situation but when you have to make split second decisions in the most unforgiving of circumstances, then you see the true character of a man come out...
Portability
supreme thru sovereignty
personally, i think that in the first round the fight should have been called and carwin should have won. not calling the fight only made carwin throw more punches, thus making him more tired for the second round. if you saw the fight you could easily see how much better carwins striking game was then brocks, when brock threw his first punch he immediately covered his face after and proceeded to slowly walk backwards as carwin threw that lethal uppercut which knocked him down. carwin got tired beating his face in on the ground which left him in a perfect spot to get submitted in round 2.
overall, i think carwin is a better fighter and brock is just really buff. carwin should have won
overall, i think carwin is a better fighter and brock is just really buff. carwin should have won
@portability - Trust me, I am Pro-Carwin and I know you are too since you are from Colorado but you gotta think of it this way. Brock was defending, maybe not in the most aesthetic way, but he was defending.
Why do you think it is the ref's fault for Carwin not being able to finish Brock? It is Carwin fault for not punching a hole through the Brock's face. The referee is there to stop fights if they need to be stopped, in this case, none of Carwin's punches were getting through so no need for it to be stopped.
I've read numerous emails of folks blaming the ref and it really puzzles me. If Carwin couldn't finish Brock, then what is the complaint? That it should have been falsely stopped earlier? Unfortunately, waaaaaaaaaaay too many fights got stopped too early. Studies have shown that punches to the head after you are knocked out are actually less damaging than when you are awake so I say, let these guys get KTFO'd and we'll have less of these guys complaining about early stoppages.
Fact is, Carwin has poor cardio and poor submission defense. I'm not buying his explanation that his body "seized up" that means you ain't in good condition if your body does that. If he works on those two things, I can see him beating Brock but in the end, neither of these guys stand a chance against Cain Velazquez, the true heir to the throne!
Why do you think it is the ref's fault for Carwin not being able to finish Brock? It is Carwin fault for not punching a hole through the Brock's face. The referee is there to stop fights if they need to be stopped, in this case, none of Carwin's punches were getting through so no need for it to be stopped.
I've read numerous emails of folks blaming the ref and it really puzzles me. If Carwin couldn't finish Brock, then what is the complaint? That it should have been falsely stopped earlier? Unfortunately, waaaaaaaaaaay too many fights got stopped too early. Studies have shown that punches to the head after you are knocked out are actually less damaging than when you are awake so I say, let these guys get KTFO'd and we'll have less of these guys complaining about early stoppages.
Fact is, Carwin has poor cardio and poor submission defense. I'm not buying his explanation that his body "seized up" that means you ain't in good condition if your body does that. If he works on those two things, I can see him beating Brock but in the end, neither of these guys stand a chance against Cain Velazquez, the true heir to the throne!
AGBeer
Lost in Thought
What? I guess I didnt follow the post fight comments too much, but Rosenthal did his job and I think he made the right decision(s) Carwin stated that he felt Brock 'go out' a couple of times but on the same hand, ole Joshy was right on top of the action and told Brock he needed to keep moving and defending (which he did) Rogaine said it best - This is a TITLE fight. We dont want a rehash of the Machida/Rua 1 fallout do we?
Carwin needed to decisively TAKE the title from Lesnar and I think the only way he would have done that would to have KOed him completely. I swear, Lesnar and Correria had the same father. (Or uncle) Thats some serious concrete in that melon.
And for the record, I am an anti-BrockHype-Fan. I was rooting for Carwin in this fight and honestly thought he was going to take it. And I was *almost* surprised with the head/arm choke Brock pulled off. Its an easy sub to learn/transition to as a wrestler. SOTN? I think that should have gone to Leben IMO.
Carwin needed to decisively TAKE the title from Lesnar and I think the only way he would have done that would to have KOed him completely. I swear, Lesnar and Correria had the same father. (Or uncle) Thats some serious concrete in that melon.
And for the record, I am an anti-BrockHype-Fan. I was rooting for Carwin in this fight and honestly thought he was going to take it. And I was *almost* surprised with the head/arm choke Brock pulled off. Its an easy sub to learn/transition to as a wrestler. SOTN? I think that should have gone to Leben IMO.
I'd take lebens or lytles sweet inverted triangle arm lock for sotn anyday over brocks arm trangle. Brock earns way too much to be getting these bonuses
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I was rooting for Carwin, as I don't like Brock's WWE attitude/history. But I have a whole new level of respect for Lesner now. He showed a great chin, and maybe, a great strategy. I went into this fight thinking that Carwin would knock him out in the first and that if it went any longer than that, Brock would have the advantage. But you gotta decisively knock the champ out, and Brock was hitting back just enough to show that he was still in it. Carwin is a great fighter, but you gotta be in top shape, and no one had yet forced him to be. I don't know who Velazquez is, so I gotta look him up now.
AGBeer
Lost in Thought
For that comment you get 20 lashes (or Lashleys)stickstones said:
Whats the deal with the rumor of Rashad/Machida 2 for the interim 205 title? (Rua got a yeast infection and might be out the rest of the year) I think there are PLENTY of other worthy 205ers.
Jon 'Bones' Jones especially comes to mind. Hell, even fighters like Ryan Bader, Rich Franklin, Quinton Jackson and even A. Silva come to mind. Neither of these fighters have had to face any of these guys (save Jackson) on their way to the 'top'
We saw what happened in the first Machida/Evans fight and for that I wasnt disappointed. But if we REALLY break it down I can tell you what will be happening in this rematch.
In seeing that both fighters decided to scrap their 'elusive showboater' styles that propelled them to such long reigns as undefeated fighters (both of which outings got them KthefuckOed) they will BOTH adopt this fighting style when the rematch comes. It will end up being a 5 round decision that ends in a draw as neither fighter will either
A. Want to engage and just try to counter punch (as if they were in a fight with Kalib Starnes)
B. Pull a Matt Lindland and hump their opponent to victory
I foresee this as a lose/lose situation for Zuffa as both fighters will then be ejected from the UFC due to poor performance.
AGBeer
Lost in Thought
Dream is basically the 'Phoenix' of what was known as Pride/Heroes. These are (mostly) Japanese fighters and the rules are a wee bit different from the 'standard' UFC rules.
http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/whats_rules.htm (These are what WERE Pride FC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_(mixed_martial_arts)
No ELBOWS are allowed to the head/face. (I kinda like this one)
Knees/Kicks are allowed to a downed opponent (yes, even soccer kicks/stomps) BUT only if BOTH fighters are down.
2 rounds of action - 1st is a 10 min round followed by a 5 minute round
Its in a ring (usually)
The referee can issue cards similar to soccer - Yellow = warning (3 of em and your DQed) Green = a % of the fight purse is deducted
http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/whats_rules.htm (These are what WERE Pride FC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_(mixed_martial_arts)
No ELBOWS are allowed to the head/face. (I kinda like this one)
Knees/Kicks are allowed to a downed opponent (yes, even soccer kicks/stomps) BUT only if BOTH fighters are down.
2 rounds of action - 1st is a 10 min round followed by a 5 minute round
Its in a ring (usually)
The referee can issue cards similar to soccer - Yellow = warning (3 of em and your DQed) Green = a % of the fight purse is deducted
jimbo
winterize
I think Chael Sonnen has lost his freakin' mind...... http://www.lowkick.com/UFC/Chael-Sonnen-says-Lance-Armstrong-gave-himself-cancer-9365
I have this feeling that Anderson Silva is gonna put some hurt on him tonite!
I have this feeling that Anderson Silva is gonna put some hurt on him tonite!
Tap for sure!! Wow, what a fight! Props to chael.
AGBeer
Lost in Thought
Dont effing go there...Plotinus said:
This is the main reason I went from a fan of Chael to GTFOandIhopeyougetstomped.
He tapped
Chael is notorious for screaming "What? I didnt tap" This definitely isnt the first fight its happened, at least this time he manned up and didnt try to deny it after the ref seperated them.
Thank you AG Bear! Asides from this being his second time tapping and then complaining, his Team Quest buddy, Joe Warren did the same shit in his match with Bibiano Fernandes. These guys convince themselves how badass they really are and can't accept reality.
I was at the Oracle Arena last night, a group of the least sophisticated fans ever. Same dude next to me chanting "Silva Silva!" at the beginning of the fight instantly switched to "USA USA!" chants when Sonnen was winning. When Sonnen lost, "I told you Silva is badass!" shiiiiit...these guys... made me less proud of my hometown
I was at the Oracle Arena last night, a group of the least sophisticated fans ever. Same dude next to me chanting "Silva Silva!" at the beginning of the fight instantly switched to "USA USA!" chants when Sonnen was winning. When Sonnen lost, "I told you Silva is badass!" shiiiiit...these guys... made me less proud of my hometown
oh wow, i had no idea of that back story, never seen sonnen fight before. i guess that pretty much settles it, then.
still, i think we can all agree that was a really poor performance from silva. where was his sprawl? and his ground game from the back? did the guy honestly think he was never going to get taken down?
especially after some of the better fights on the main card i thought the title match was disappointing. silva is just too erratic as a fighter for me.
still, i think we can all agree that was a really poor performance from silva. where was his sprawl? and his ground game from the back? did the guy honestly think he was never going to get taken down?
especially after some of the better fights on the main card i thought the title match was disappointing. silva is just too erratic as a fighter for me.
AGBeer
Lost in Thought
LOL Yes, Sonen is a bad ass fighter no doubt about that. I would consider him to be a variant of the 2.0 version of his (boring but winning) team mate Matt Lindland. He kicked some serious ass in the WEC earning his first title shot against the (then supposedly invincible) Paulo Filho. Ironically their first fight was nearly IDENTICAL to this fight with Silva. (Once again he fell inches short of the title)Plotinus said:
Second fight with Filho, Filho didnt make weight so the title option was out again (Sonnen won by dec - but still no title)
WECs heavier weight classes were absorbed into the UFC and here we are today.
And still. No title
Sorry bout your bad luck Mr. Sonnen(R)Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
lwien
Well-Known Member
And for you gamers out there, this quote from the vid above had me in stitches:Purple-Days said:
Black dude - "X,X,B,A,Up,Left,RT,LT,Y,RT &? LT,A,A,A,RB,Left,Right,Left,Up,Y,Y,RT,B,Down,Down,X,LB,X,Y,Y,B,A,Right,Right,Up"
White dude- "X"
I almost don't want to admit this but.... this is a scene from Never Back Down, ok, I admit it, I saw the movie.
