the Michael Brown thread

[Chill Dude]

Sorry, fucked up! Can a mod please fix my quote mistake above. I'm not sure if I can fix that.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

I really think the best thing is to have cameras on cops like go pros. Isnt that what cali is doing?

Anyways lets say @Caligula is right and MB charged the officer. Really needed 6 shots to subdue him? And lets say they did need 6 shots. Does that excuse the way they have acted towards the media and peaceful protesters? Watching live stream they have been EXTREMELY aggressive towards people who are just protesting. This is not the way to treat people and only aggravates an already aggressive situation.

Here is the last police incident that sparked protests, let me know whats your defense for 4 cops in full military gear killing this homeless man. Then when he is on the ground shooting him with beanbags (why didnt they try that first?) and letting their dog loose on him:

See even if your right about this incident, which as you said lets wait to reserve judgement on this particular incident. Still there is a larger issue at hand.

 

[Caligula]

@Caligula Is that your personal transcription or.....

Also.....

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html

Of course this account is from an eye witness so we don't know if its accurate....

No its not, but other than where noted in the x-scipt, its extremely clear and there isn't much left to interpretation. I copy and pasted the transcript off of a reddit feed after viewing/reading along with the video and agreeing with what was said.

Also, thank you for reiterating my point. As I've been saying there are way too many conflicting details, and unanswered questions to be laying the blame at anyone's feet. If you hadn't noticed, quite a few people have already made the case for BM's innocence. I figured to be fair, both sides should be represented... yet I'm not quite sure why it would be looked at negatively to have the same open mind for the other side of the story.

@olivianewtonjohn According to the M.E.'s autopsy report, the last two shots where the ones that actually killed MB. The previous 4 shots caused "grazing wounds", and were not incapacitating by any means. So in all honesty, it does seem that 6 shots was an appropriate amount of ammo to spend.

Also I want everyone to stop conflating issues here. If I havent discussed it, theres a reason for that. Ive not once mentioned police action against protesters or other acts of LE aggression against civilians, baring a handful of very specific examples. On purpose.

Let's just put a stop to those assumptions if that's okay.

 

[Madcap79]

Also, keep in mind that the six shots where the only ones that hit MB. Not sure if it's been released how many shots were actually fired. I think most people find the cops actions to be excessive and that's where the passion comes from. Plus, I think some people have had negative run ins with police and that influences their feelings as well.

 

[Caligula]

Also, keep in mind that the six shots where the only ones that hit MB. Not sure if it's been released how many shots were actually fired.

Target practice and firearms training issues aside, even if the cop missed 100 times before the last 6, it doesn't change the fact that it took that many rounds to get the desired result. If you really want to distill things, it only took 2 shots to take MB down.... sadly (as is the case most of the time), it was the last 2 and not the first. That fact, though, should help lead credence to the officer having used an appropriate amount of action, rather than an inappropriate amount. At least IMO.

I think most people find the cops actions to be excessive and that's where the passion comes from. Plus, I think some people have had negative run ins with police and that influences their feelings as well.

I agree. And that's why details like the things I have been discussing are SO important. People let "guilt by association" rule over logic, and we get burning and looting.

"But they are outraged by this excessive force!"

I understand... but is it truly excessive? Or are people assuming it is excessive based on the narrative they happen to be following or due to a lack of understanding regarding how things work in real life situations? Sadly, a lot of people see things in movies or on CSi and think that's how it really works. Quite understandable, but also a great detriment in cases like this.

 

[Madcap79]

To me personally, based on both accounts, the force was excessive. This is just my feeling. Also, my feeling is that the cop will not face any jail time. AGAIN, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

Even if the cop missed 100 times before the last 6, it doesn't change the fact that it took that many rounds to get the desired result. If you really want to distill things, it only took 2 shots to take MB down.... sadly (as is the case most of the time), it was the last 2 and not the first.



I agree. And that's why details like the things I have been discussing are SO important. People let "guilt by association" rule over logic, and we get burning and looting.

"But they are outraged by this excessive force!"

I understand... but is it truly excessive? Or are people assuming it is excessive based on the narrative they happen to be following or due to a lack of understanding regarding how things work in real life situations? Sadly, a lot of people see things on movies or on CSi and think that's how it really works.

See im not conflating anything. You want to talk about the burning and looting as if its purely in response to this issue. My point is you are missing the whole picture. People are not protesting, burning, and looting just based on the MB issue. Its not like they were all dropped there the day this problem happened. And based on video evidence of how this particular police department is acting I think the protesters have a point. The general attitude of this police department is ridiculous.

Cop aggression is ridiculous. There are literally hundred of hours of footage of cops all across this country acting aggressive and hostile on youtube.

 

[Caligula]

To me personally, based on both accounts, the force was excessive. This is just my feeling. Also, my feeling is that the cop will not face any jail time. AGAIN, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

I understand, and you have every right to that opinion. I am just reminded of the few posters who stated you can never really know oppression until you experience it for yourself. There is much truth to this statement, however the same can be said about a police officer in a situation like this. How many of us can truthfully say they understand what it would be like to be put in that situation?

Just food for thought.

My point is the general attitude of cops is past the point of sanity. Cop aggression is ridiculous. There are literally hundred of hours of footage of cops all across this country acting aggressive and hostile on youtube.

I'm not saying the police are blameless angels, but unless you have some statistics other than adding up hours of youtube video, its kind of disingenuous to say that "the general attitude of cops is past the point of sanity". I mean, that's basically saying that the average attitude of LEOs is beyond insane. E.G. most cops do this.

Assuming thats what you meant, what exactly are you basing this opinion on? YT videos? Social media reports? How much actual footage was spent in order to get that hundred hours of video? How many years did it take countless people to upload that video? How many of those videos give full context of the situation? How much vetting did you do with those twitter feeds and instagram posts?


Is it that "the general attitude of cops is past the point of sanity", or is it more likely that people are inclined to upload videos of cops misbehaving rather than videos of them doing their job properly?

It's almost enough to make one question whats actually going on, don't you think?

 

[mestizo]

I know for a fact that cops attitudes towards civilians have changed for the worst over the years, and part of the problem is the training they receive during the academy. I had a Dominican friend back in the late 90's who was nice and mellow guy, but after the training (indoctrination) he received, he was looking at every person as a potential criminal. I remember one time when we went to visit his sister in the valley, and we where lost searching for her name on one of the buildings directories, there was clearly another individual next to us in the same situation, and my friend started asking him all kinds of questions while his hand was on his gun, BTW my friend wasn't even on duty.
On the way there I remember him telling me how every person in the street is a potential criminal/treat.
Also, does anybody know why the porcentage of soldiers in the military who shoot to kill in battle has increase from 50% to over 90%?
Training. I saw this documentary where the person who modified the training was so proud with the results.

 

[2clicker]

wow this thread moves fast. i did read everything, but wont be replying to it all.

instead check this out.

HERE is Baden saying that the shots were not at close range. and that they may have been up to 30' in distance. Baden also says that there is no sign of a struggle anywhere on MBs body. of which contradicts the feeble story the police have "released". he goes on to say the marks on his face were caused by his face slapping against the ground.

Baden wants to examine the clothing and xrays saying they are crucial. these are currently being withheld by the medical examiners office, but Baden does expect to get access to them.

Baden says how the number of gunshots was originally withheld from the family, by the police, uneccessarily.

then there is Dorian Johnsons version of what happened. likely the closest eyewitness to this mess. he and other eyewitnesses all say the cop was running at MB while shooting.

the pathologist, Parcells says "he may have had his back to the shooter. or he may have been facing the shooter with his over his head or in a defensive position". and also that "we just dont know"

they are saying that a couple of the bullets entered, exited, and re-entered him. first his arms then his chest respectively. and considering where he was shot this would tell one that its very possible his hands were in the air. even likely.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

I'm not saying the police are blameless angels, but unless you have some statistics other than adding up hours of youtube video, its kind of disingenuous to say that "the general attitude of cops is past the point of sanity". I mean, that's basically saying that the average attitude of LEOs is beyond insane. E.G. most cops do this.

Assuming thats what you meant, what exactly are you basing this opinion on? YT videos? Social media reports? How much actual footage was spent in order to get that hundred hours of video? How many years did it take countless people to upload that video? How much vetting did you do with those twitter feeds and instagram posts?


Is it that "the general attitude of cops is past the point of sanity", or is it more likely that people are inclined to upload videos of cops misbehaving rather than videos of them doing their job properly?

It's almost enough to make one question whats actually going on, don't you think?

I agree to an extent but at the same time its not like you can expect anyone to sit there for years doing research on this in order to form an opinion. That seems a bit unrealistic dont you think? I mean lets not act like someone needs to become an expert on a field to form an opinion. As far as im aware there are no useful statistics on this because most departments do not release data on police aggression. And even if they did it would be hard to tell if that aggression was justified or not. So im not sure if I should not have an opinion if that information is not out there? I can see where your coming from on the video evidence and how it might be skewed. But its seems like hearing about these reports is becoming more common dont you think? How many ridiculous swat raids have you read about recently? How many questionable killings?

Do I really need to research this topic to know what I see with my own eyes of increased militarized police and then make the logical leap that maybe there are becoming more aggressive given the video and news stories? Given the lack of data what your asking for seems unrealistic

EDIT: I get where you coming from I do. I applaud your efforts to being more analytical. If you have any data showing police aggression staying the same or decreasing im all ears.

 

[2clicker]

@olivianewtonjohn According to the M.E.'s autopsy report, the last two shots where the ones that actually killed MB. The previous 4 shots caused "grazing wounds", and were not incapacitating by any means. So in all honesty, it does seem that 6 shots was an appropriate amount of ammo to spend.

not incapacitating? I read somewhere that the medical examiner says the head shots OR the chest shots could have killed him. obviously the head shots did indeed finish the job, but that the chest shots could have also killed him.

either the shot to almost the neck or the shot to the right breast could have killed him.

grazing wounds? funny. as was "strong arm robbery". these clowns sure are a hoot.

 

[Chill Dude]

If you really want to distill things, it only took 2 shots to take MB down.... sadly (as is the case most of the time), it was the last 2 and not the first. That fact, though, should help lead credence to the officer having used an appropriate amount of action, rather than an inappropriate amount. At least IMO.

Who cares how many shots? Shooting an unarmed man to death is certainly not an appropriate use of force in most rational peoples minds. One shot is too many!!!

Like you said, at this point there is a lot of speculation going on for sure. All we have to go on is what's been reported. Therefore, we are only left with "plausibility".

That said.. I ask you this. Which is a more plausible scenario when a cop has a gun pointed at you? Do you charge the officer or put your hands up and state "don't shoot"?(Perhaps one in 200 people would choose to charge the cop. I'd also venture to say that of those who choose to charge an officer are either suffering from serious mental disorders, use it as a tool for suicide or maybe out of sorts and prone to violence and aggression due to crack, crystal meth, PCP or other substances. I haven't read any reporting thus far that would put MB in that catagory. I'd venture to say (with no proof whatsoever) that if you take away those three categories, charging an officer would be an extremely rare event.

So which is more plausible?

An unarmed sane man charging a cop who has a gun pointed at his head? ( certainly less than a 1% chance). Or an unarmed man raises his hands above his head shouting "Don't shoot"( perhaps a 99% + chance). Or course this isn't factual or correct statistics, simply an argument stating what is the most plausible action.

I know all the facts have obviously not come out, however, with what's known up to this point it appears much more likely that the cop used excessive force and should be tried for murder!!

 

[Stu]

Sorry, fucked up! Can a mod please fix my quote mistake above. I'm not sure if I can fix that.

Please use the report link instead of making a separate post. Also, you do have 6 hours to edit posts.

Thanks.

 

[invertedisdead]

I do like statistics. Would you like to wager on which of the tools at his disposal has the best track record for fully incapacitating its intended target?

Incapacitated does not mean dead. The pistol certainly has much higher chances of killing, so may be worse at actually incapacitating. You also state that people are trained to fire multiple rounds and to not draw unless ready to take someones life. That all is completely excessive as to what incapacitate actually means. To incapacitate a car is to shoot out the tires, not blow it up with a rocket launcher.

 

[dorkus_molorkus]

God you fuckers are boring.

Lets all watch justice be metted out to the owner of 7/11 who shot that kid 67 times in the back when his hands were up in the air praising Jeebus.

Oh wait none of that quite happened tho. Well im sure that fucker that had his business looted and destroyed did something to someone once.

or not...........

Here is todays livestream of some crazyness.
(the livestream.com one is better than the youtube feed )

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

the st louis police scanner sgain.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/st-louis-county-police-scanner


Todays social unrest proudly brought to you by the events sponsor,

Nonlethal technologies Inc,
If you gotta gas some fucker,
then make sure you gas your unruly mob with Nonlethal Technologies Inc gas.

 

[Caligula]

I know for a fact that cops attitudes towards civilians have changed for the worst over the years, and part of the problem is the training they receive during the academy. I had a Dominican friend back in the late 90's who was nice and mellow guy, but after the training (indoctrination) he received, he was looking at every person as a potential criminal. I remember one time when we went to visit his sister in the valley, and we where lost searching for her name on one of the buildings directories, there was clearly another individual next to us in the same situation, and my friend started asking him all kinds of questions while his hand was on his gun, BTW my friend wasn't even on duty.

I can see how your experience may shape your view of how an officer in this day and age can be, however I fail to see how this correlates to stating that "cops attitudes towards civilians have changed for the worst over the years".

It would be fair to extrapolate that your friend wasn't a police officer prior to the 2000s'. In what way does this speak to the mindset of police a generation or two ago? I can tell you with 100% certainty that the average enlisted soldier has no clue what it was like to be in their specific branch of the military 20, 30 or 50 years ago... I dont see why it would differ for police.

Let me also ask you this... when exactly did this mindset change in police? Were they not whomping the ever living shit out of minorities during the civil rights era? And what about before that? Did the civil rights movement come out of LEOs treating minorities in a fair and even handed way? ...and that really begs the question... were things ever "better"? Or perhaps are we just hearing more about it due to the prevalence of cell phones and cameras and social media and 24/7 news networks?

Also, does anybody know why the porcentage of soldiers in the military who shoot to kill in battle has increase from 50% to over 90%?
Training. I saw this documentary where the person who modified the training was so proud with the results.

You say this like it's a bad thing. When the military is in battle, they are typically fighting for their lives against an adversary INTENT ON KILLING THEM. Now, IDK about you, but if I am in that situation I don't want my life depending on the person next to me who is wasting valuable ammunition by shooting into the air.

HERE is Baden saying that the shots were not at close range. and that they may have been up to 30' in distance. Baden also says that there is no sign of a struggle anywhere on MBs body. of which contradicts the feeble story the police have "released". he goes on to say the marks on his face were caused by his face slapping against the ground.

Baden wants to examine the clothing and xrays saying they are crucial. these are currently being withheld by the medical examiners office, but Baden does expect to get access to them.

Seems like that's not really new information, just the same statements as before which have been worded differently by a copy editor. Of course as they stated a few times, the jury is still out and only time will tell whats really going on.

then there is Dorian Johnsons version of what happened. likely the closest eyewitness to this mess. he and other eyewitnesses all say the cop was running at MB while shooting.

Two things.

"he and other eyewitnesses all say the cop was running at MB while shooting."

1. This kind of makes it sound like every wittiness agrees with that statement, which is incorrect. Not sure if that was on purpose, subliminal, or a flub, but I wanted to highlight this as an example of how we can have things become misconstrued.

2. If that is indeed the case, I would be interested to find out why the officer was "running and gunning". From a logical, tactical and firearms use perspective, that's the last thing you want to be doing in a situation like this if your goal is to actually hit your target. Typically, SOP in a case like that would be for the officer to take a defensive, yet stationary firing stance and send rounds down range until the threat was neutralized. Usually if you have to move in a situation like that, its backwards and not forwards.

the pathologist, Parcells says "he may have had his back to the shooter. or he may have been facing the shooter with his over his head or in a defensive position". and also that "we just dont know"

I agree.

they are saying that a couple of the bullets entered, exited, and re-entered him. first his arms then his chest respectively. and considering where he was shot this would tell one that its very possible his hands were on the air. even likely.

Fair enough. However I cant really think of when I sprint or even jog with my arms at my side. And if the cop missed or grazed Mr. Brown with the first 4 (or more) shots, it wouldn't take much imagination to picture his arms coming up out of instinct to protect his head/body. Again, this information doesn't really tell us much.

I agree to an extent but at the same time its not like you can expect anyone to sit there for years doing research on this in order to form an opinion. That seems a bit unrealistic dont you think? I mean lets not act like someone needs to become an expert on a field to form an opinion. As far as im aware there are no useful statistics on this because most departments do not release data on police aggression. And even if they did it would be hard to tell if that aggression was justified or not. So im not sure if I should not have an opinion if that information is not out there? I can see where your coming from on the video evidence and how it might be skewed. But its seems like hearing about these reports is becoming more common dont you think? How many ridiculous swat raids have you read about recently? How many questionable killings?

Do I really need to research this topic to know what I see with my own eyes of increased militarized police and then make the logical leap that maybe there are becoming more aggressive given the video and news stories? Given the lack of data what your asking for seems unrealistic

EDIT: I get where you coming from I do. I applaud your efforts to being more analytical. If you have any data showing police aggression staying the same or decreasing im all ears.

• I never said you can't have an opinion, or that you need to be an "expert" to form one. I'm simply saying that people with hardline opinions should take a minute to think about all the facets that make up this complex issue. That doesn't mean you have to change your stance, but you should at least temper your view with the fact that at least some of the info you are relying on is exaggerated/biased/out of context/false. Typically, when people do that they refrain from making unfounded or generalized blanket statements. I am of the opinion that being at least vaguely informed about all sides and aspects of a situation is something that we all should take into consideration before have a public discussion on the topic.
• You don't always need statistics to make an informed decision on something. For example, I would like to at least think that its common sense that a MAJORITY (>50%) of the time a MAJORITY of the LEOs (>50%) in this country act appropriately.
• Are the reports becoming more common? Perhaps. And whats changed recently? The evil machine suddenly decided to indoctrinate a new mindset among otherwise kind and good hearted people? Or is it that hundreds of millions of individuals now have the ability to record, edit, and post audio and video 24/7? One might think that the exponential proliferation of this technology has something to do with a recent increase in reports. In other news, apparently EVERYONE now owns cats. I see them ALL THE TIME ON THE INTERWEBS! I'm wondering when that 50/50 split between dog and cat ownership got so skewed in this country?

 

[Caligula]

back to back post due to character limit

not incapacitating? I read somewhere that the medical examiner says the head shots OR the chest shots could have killed him. obviously the head shots did indeed finish the job, but that the chest shots could have also killed him. either the shot to almost the neck or the shot to the right breast could have killed him.

Just because a shot "could have killed him", doesn't mean it would have INSTANTLY killed him. It would be just as fair to say that a shot which nicked an organ "could have killed him", just as long as you don't mention the fact that it would take some time for him to bleed out internally and die. On the other hand, its hard to argue with 2 rounds into the brain.

grazing wounds? funny. as was "strong arm robbery". these clowns sure are a hoot.

Which clowns are you referring to? I got the term "grazing wounds" directly from the statement provided by the Brown's private M.E.

"Forensic pathologist Shawn Parcells, who assisted former New York City chief medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden during the private autopsy, said a bullet grazed Brown's right arm."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/preliminary-autopsy-shows-michael-brown-shot-six-times/

The term was also used by the Brown family attorney in several interviews.

Also this:

Here is the definition of the term as it exists in the basic English lexicon:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/strong-arm

STRONG-ARM:

adjective
1. using, involving, or threatening the use of physical force or violence to gain an objective:
strong-arm methods.


verb (used with object)
2. to use violent methods upon; assault.
3. to rob by force.
4. to coerce by threats or intimidation; bully

Now here is how the law defines the term:

http://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/uniform-crime-reporting-handbook/robbery.html

Robberies wherein only personal weapons, such as hands, fists, and feet, are used (3d) or threatened to be used may be referred to as strong-arms or muggings.

The UCR Program considers a weapon to be a commonly known weapon (a gun, knife, club, etc.) or any other item which, although not usually thought of as a weapon, becomes one in the commission of a crime. Reporting agencies must classify crimes involving pretended weapons or those in which the weapon is not seen by the victim, but the robber claims to possess one, as armed robbery. Should an immediate on-view arrest prove that there is no weapon involved, the agency must classify the offense as strong-arm robbery.

Now, can you explain to me how MB didn't meet those criteria laid out by the definitions above? I'm a little confused.

Incapacitated does not mean dead. The pistol certainly has much higher chances of killing, so may be worse at actually incapacitating. You also state that people are trained to fire multiple rounds and to not draw unless ready to take someones life. That all is completely excessive as to what incapacitate actually means. To incapacitate a car is to shoot out the tires, not blow it up with a rocket launcher.

My friend, you are pissing into the wind by trying to debate terminology. Im not making these terms up, I'm simply using them in an appropriate and educated manner. Don't believe me? Go take a firearms training course and see for yourself.

Of course, they also use the term "eliminate" and "neutralize" quite a bit. I can switch to one of those if it makes you feel better.

 

[mestizo]

@Caligula, Ok, if their attitudes towards civilians haven't changed over the years, you just supported what a lot of people have been saying, the way cops treat civilians suck now, and have always sucked.
Don't you think is time for them to change?

Edit: also, a lot of people join the military for different reasons, and some hope they will never face battle and be in a situation where they have to kill another human being. I have friends who joined for the benefits alone.

 

[Caligula]

@Caligula, Ok, if their attitudes towards civilians haven't changed over the years, you just supported what a lot of people have been saying, the way cops treat civilians suck now, and have always sucked.

I never said that was the case, and fail to see your what you're trying to get at.

Perhaps some elaboration is in order?

My entire point was that we can't say with any certainty that a rise in these reports is due to a change in LEO mentality, instead of recording devices and the intrawebs being in everyone's pocket 24/7. In fact, Id say its just as likely that there are FEWER incidents going on, with yet more and more exposure when it does happen. It would make sense that the prevalence of this technology is tempering LEO reaction, while at the same time making it seem as though its a growing problem. That may or may not be true, but it sure seems like a possibility if I look at it logically.

Edit: also, a lot of people join the military for different reasons, and some hope they will never face battle and be in a situation where they have to kill another human being. I have friends who joined for the benefits alone.

I'm almost at a loss for words here.

First of all, you know what you're signing up for in the military. They have different jobs, and if you pick something that directly relates to combat then you're doing it with your eyes open.

Secondly, even support personnel need to fight on occasion... typically because THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY TRYING TO KILL THEM. So if that's the case, and Private Jackoff next to me is dumping ammo into sandbags instead of the PEOPLE TRYING TO KILL US, guess who just became the biggest piece of shit in the world? BTW, the fact that he was only there for the dental plan and 10% military discount doesn't make things any better.

All of that being said, a vast majority of people join the military hoping they never have to take a life. Thankfully a good number of them also know full well that they are PLEDGING AN OATH to do just that if need be, and that the lives of their follow soldiers depends on them doing their sworn duty.

 

[Chill Dude]

• You don't always need statistics to make an informed decision on something. For example, I would like to at least think that its common sense that a MAJORITY (>50%) of the time a MAJORITY of the LEOs (>50%) in this country act appropriately.

perhaps, but I'd venture to say a majority of LEOs do not act appropriately 100% of the time. I think that's a more appropriate way to look at it.

 

[mestizo]

Not everyone who joins the military is a senator's son, and gets to fly a jet, some people have no choice but to become a foot soldier.

Edit: A cargo plane, or any other high ranking job that doesn't require being in the front lines.

 

[Caligula]

perhaps, but I'd venture to say a majority of LEOs do not act appropriately 100% of the time. I think that's a more appropriate way to look at it.

Yes, this would be a true statement... however it would also be stating the obvious. In fact, that statement would accurately apply to basically anything out in the real world. For example, I challenge you to name one profession where 100% of the individuals act appropriately 100% of the time. You can include Presidents and Popes if you wish.

Not everyone who joins the military is a senator's son, and gets to fly a jet, some people have no choice but to become a foot soldier.

Okay... this actually might have some bearing in reality if the only jobs in the military were flying jets and shooting people in grass huts.

Here's a semi-comprehensive list of the different military occupations which are available to Enlisted service members (non-officers or "low ranking" as you put it) who enlist voluntarily ...aka everyone since Vietnam who doesn't have a college degree or equivalent number of credits:

(And no I don't expect you to read all of that, but I do expect you to get the point)

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/military/military-careers.htm

Types of Enlisted Personnel
The following are examples of types of occupations for enlisted personnel:

Administrative personnel maintain data and files on personnel, equipment, funds, and other military-related activities. They work in a support area, such as finance, accounting, legal affairs, maintenance, supply, or transportation.

Combat specialty personnel train and work as members of combat units, such as the infantry, artillery, or Special Forces. For example, infantry specialists conduct ground combat operations; armored vehicle specialists operate battle tanks; and seamanship specialists maintain ships. Combat specialty personnel may maneuver against enemy forces and positions and fire artillery, guns, mortars, or missiles to destroy those positions. They may also operate various types of combat vehicles, such as amphibious assault vehicles, tanks, or small boats. Members of elite Special Operations teams are trained to perform specialized missions anywhere in the world on a moment’s notice.

Construction personnel in the military build or repair buildings, airfields, bridges, and other structures. They also may operate heavy equipment, such as bulldozers or cranes. They work with engineers and other building specialists as part of military construction teams. Some construction personnel specialize in areas such as plumbing, electrical wiring, or water purification.

Electronic and electrical equipment repair personnel maintain and repair electronic equipment used by the military. Repairers specialize in an area, such as aircraft electrical systems, computers, optical equipment, communications, or weapons systems. For example, weapons electronic maintenance technicians maintain and repair electronic components and systems that help locate targets and help aim and fire weapons.

Engineering, science, and technical personnel perform a variety of tasks, such as operating technical equipment, solving problems, and collecting and interpreting information. They typically perform technical tasks in information technology, environmental health and safety, or intelligence:

• Environmental health and safety specialists inspect military facilities and food supplies to ensure that they are safe for use.
• Information technology specialists manage and maintain computer and network systems.
• Intelligence specialists gather information and prepare reports for military planning and operations.

Healthcare personnel provide medical services to military personnel and their family members. They may work as part of a patient-service team with doctors, nurses, or other healthcare professionals. Some specialize in providing emergency medical treatment in combat or remote areas. Others specialize in laboratory testing of tissue and blood samples; maintaining pharmacy supplies or patients’ records; assisting with dental procedures; operating diagnostic tools, such as x-ray and ultrasound machines; or other healthcare tasks.

Human resources development personnel recruit qualified people into the military, place them in suitable occupations, and provide training programs:

• Personnel specialists maintain information about military personnel and their training, job assignments, promotions, and health.
• Recruiting specialists provide information about military careers; explain pay, benefits, and service life; and recruit individuals into the military.
• Training specialists and instructors teach military personnel how to perform their jobs.

Machine operator and production personnel operate industrial equipment and machinery to fabricate and repair parts for a variety of equipment and structures. They may operate engines, nuclear reactors, or water pumps, usually performing a specific job. Welders and metalworkers, for example, work with various types of metals to repair or form the structural parts of ships, buildings, or other equipment. Survival equipment specialists inspect, maintain, and repair survival equipment, such as parachutes and aircraft life support equipment.

Media and public affairs personnel prepare and present information about military activities to the military and the public. They take photographs, make video programs, present news and music programs, or conduct interviews.

Protective service personnel enforce military laws and regulations and provide emergency responses to disasters:

• Firefighters prevent and extinguish fires in buildings, on aircraft, and aboard ships.
• Military police responsibilities include controlling traffic, preventing crime, and responding to emergencies.
• Other law enforcement and security specialists investigate crimes committed on military property and guard inmates in military correctional facilities.

Support service personnel provide services that support the morale and well-being of military personnel and their families:

• Food service specialists prepare food in dining halls, hospitals, and ships.
• Religious program specialists assist chaplains with religious services, religious education programs, and related administrative duties.

Transportation and material-handling personnel transport military personnel and cargo. Most personnel within this occupational group are classified according to the mode of transportation, such as aircraft, motor vehicle, or ship:

• Aircrew members operate equipment on aircraft.
• Cargo specialists load and unload military supplies, using forklifts and cranes.
• Quartermasters and boat operators navigate and pilot many types of small watercraft, including tugboats, gunboats, and barges.
• Vehicle drivers operate various military vehicles, including fuel or water tank trucks.

Vehicle and machinery mechanical personnel conduct preventive and corrective maintenance on aircraft, automotive and heavy equipment, and powerhouse station equipment. These workers typically specialize by the type of equipment that they maintain:

• Aircraft mechanics inspect and service various types of aircraft.
• Automotive and heavy equipment mechanics maintain and repair vehicles, such as Humvees, trucks, tanks, and other combat vehicles. They also repair bulldozers and other construction equipment.
• Heating and cooling mechanics install and repair air-conditioning, refrigeration, and heating equipment.
• Marine engine mechanics repair and maintain engines on ships, boats, and other watercraft.
• Powerhouse mechanics install, maintain, and repair electrical and mechanical equipment in power-generating stations.

 

[mestizo]

Yeah, but the worst jobs go to poor underprivileged kids that have no choice but to join the military in order to get an chance to a college career after their service. Some of them will not join if their future looked brighter without the military.The ones getting the best jobs are the rich kids from military colleges.

 

[Caligula]

Yeah, but the worst jobs go to poor underprivileged kids that have no choice but to join the military in order to get an chance to a college career after their service. Some of them will not join if their future looked brighter without the military.The ones getting the best jobs are the rich kids from military colleges.

Typically the ones getting the "best jobs" (according to your criteria I suppose) score highest on their ASVAB and other entrance tests, while also having a college degree (among other things, like actually graduating from OCS). This allows them to have their pick of whats available.

Oh you did ROTC in High School, graduated from Harvard with a 4.0 GPA, AND you scored a perfect on your ASVAB? Yes, you get to go to flight school if you want to. Or do linguistics, or WTF ever else you want. Makes sense, no?

Of course there's a very good reason for this, since these people are typically responsible for the largest number of lives and the most expensive equipment.

Regardless, the ratio of support (non-combat) roles FAR outnumbers the number of direct combat roles in any branch of the military. You literally have to sign yourself up for a combat position in order to get there, unless there's an active draft going on.