the Michael Brown thread

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
Yes, this would be a true statement... however it would also be stating the obvious. In fact, that statement would accurately apply to basically anything out in the real world. For example, I challenge you to name one profession where 100% of the individuals act appropriately 100% of the time.

Yeah, i was at Target yesterday and one of the clerks treated me like shit and it was totally inappropriate.

I'm talking about occupations where they use firearms in communities, they need to be held to a much higher standard bordering on perfection. Perhaps the cop that killed Brown acted appropriately during the past 50 stops. That doesn't mean he acted appropriately this time LMAO...
 

Caligula

Maximus
When you demand "borderline perfection" from any Human Being, you're bound to be disappointed.

BTW where is that border anyway? Apparently this officer has had a spotless career.
 

2clicker

Observer
Just because a shot "could have killed him", doesn't mean it would have INSTANTLY killed him. It would be just as fair to say that a shot which nicked an organ "could have killed him", just as long as you don't mention the fact that it would take some time for him to bleed out internally and die. On the other hand, its hard to argue with 2 rounds into the brain.

i dont know man. i dont see the difference. either way he isnt "attacking" anyone with a bullet in his collar. you mentioned...

According to the M.E.'s autopsy report, the last two shots where the ones that actually killed MB. The previous 4 shots caused "grazing wounds", and were not incapacitating by any means.

and that is clearly not true. that was my point. yes we know the head shots are what killed him. but i feel the collar shot and upper chest shot likely would have had he not also been shot in the head. and if they didnt kill him... then maybe he would still be alive...? just a thought.

Which clowns are you referring to? I got the term "grazing wounds" directly from the statement provided by the Brown's private M.E.

the clowns are the cops. they are riding around in their armored clown cars right now. they can fit like 20 of them in there at once. im not here to name call FC family.

random note... they are tear gassing protestors right now who wont leave the street. dont they have a right to assemble? which means that they can sit their asses down in the middle of the street and protest if they want to right? so why are they being gassed?

EDIT... and now the media gets the gas! this is fun!!!
 
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mestizo

Well-Known Member
Typically the ones getting the "best jobs" (according to your criteria I suppose) score highest on their ASVAB and other entrance tests, while also having a college degree (among other things, like actually graduating from OCS). This allows them to have their pick of whats available.

Oh you did ROTC in High School, graduated from Harvard with a 4.0 GPA, AND you scored a perfect on your ASVAB? Yes, you get to go to flight school if you want to. Or do linguistics, or WTF ever else you want. Makes sense, no?

Of course there's a very good reason for this, since these people are typically responsible for the largest number of lives and the most expensive equipment.

Regardless, the ratio of support (non-combat) roles FAR outnumbers the number of direct combat roles in any branch of the military. You literally have to sign yourself up for a combat position in order to get there, unless there's an active draft going on.
@Caligula, I just want to say thank you for engaging in this conversation in a very professional way. Having said that, I don't want the mods to come here and tell us we have derailed the thread by talking about the military only.
You brought up very valid points, I agree with the majority of them.
I have two daughters, and I tried to keep a healthy balance when I teach her about the way we are to behave when confronted with the authorities. But I have had cases that hit close to home where an officer has crossed the line and those things come to mind when I hear in the news what happened to Brown.
I have seen old ladies harassed at the beach for having a glass of wine, after they got their ticket. I had a lawyer friend who was harassed by a security guard outside Rite Aid for no reason, my friend wrote a letter asking for an apology, or he was going to sue the carp out of the store. I witness a kidnapping and called 911, when the officer arrived he treated me like I was lying, until they found the individuals, because I wrote their license plate number.
And countless more.
I happen to be immigrant, who graduated High School at the age of 13 years old, with one of the highest scores in math and science, and what happened when I applied to the military? The recruiting officer told me my grades where to low and it will be better if I attended a trade school and came back after, you know what? Later on I found out he was getting kick backs from the trade school for every applicant he sent there, it really sucks. I met other people at the school with similar experiences.
And that's not all, but it seems that law enforcement think they are above everyone else on moral issues, by the way they treat their fellow human beings,Just look how they react when they are wronged.
On closing: for those if you who have read the New Testament in the Christian Bible, and are familiar with the dialogs Jesus had with the representatives of morality at that time, who happened to be the Pharisees (priest). The harshest comments Jesus made where to them and the scribes (lawyers). If Jesus was walking among us today, he will reserve those comments for law enforcement.

Edit: I almost forgot, a friend's daughter was pulled over in the 90's on the way back home from dropping her daughter at school, when asked to get out of the car, she refused because she was wearing a night gown, the cop beat the shit out of her and when my friend consulted a lawyer at his church, the lawyer told him to forget the incident and move on, he didn't believe they could win the case against law enforcement.
 
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Caligula

Maximus
and that is clearly not true. that was my point. yes we know the head shots are what killed him. but i feel the collar shot and upper chest shot likely would have had he not also been shot in the head.

About that...

"One of the bullets shattered his right eye, traveled through his face, exited his jaw and re-entered at his collarbone, according to the autopsy."

http://ktla.com/2014/08/18/autopsy-results-enough-to-charge-officer-brown-family-attorney-says/

Pretty sure that means your "collar shot" is also one of the two head shots. Unless you don't count being shot through the eye socket as being hit in the head? I'm no medical doctor, but...
 
Caligula,

grokit

well-worn member
Don't they have have rubber bullets they could have used instead?

Rubber bullets can be brutally effective.

e3937890e34177e9771be4d503e5a26a_zpsb3e72f5e.png

From:
Ferguson Police Reportedly Shot Pastor Renita Lamkin With Rubber Bullet During Protest
 

Caligula

Maximus
Sweet bruise. I got a few about that size back when I was dumb enough to play paintball with unregulated pressure settings. Go figure, who woulda thought teenage boys would crank it up to dangerous levels? :lol:

Sucks a lot worse when you get a grouping of 5 of 6 of them though. Ouch.

BTW, a paintball did this:

3517.jpg
 
Caligula,

Been Vapin

Fringe Class
Such "kinetic impact munitions" are meant to cause pain but not serious injury. They are expected to produce contusions, abrasions, and hematomas.[6] However, they may cause bone fractures, injuries to internal organs, or death. In a study of injuries in 90 patients injured by rubber bullets, one died, 17 suffered permanent disabilities or deformities and 41 required hospital treatment after being fired upon with rubber bullets.[7]
 

2clicker

Observer
About that...

"One of the bullets shattered his right eye, traveled through his face, exited his jaw and re-entered at his collarbone, according to the autopsy."

http://ktla.com/2014/08/18/autopsy-results-enough-to-charge-officer-brown-family-attorney-says/

Pretty sure that means your "collar shot" is also one of the two head shots. Unless you don't count being shot through the eye socket as being hit in the head? I'm no medical doctor, but...

even better! a "three fer one"! even more reason to stop shooting.


clearly she was a threat. i think i saw her with her hands up.
 
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Caligula

Maximus
even better! a "three fer one"! even more reason to stop shooting.

Which would mean your talking about either the last, or second to last round fired. At which point does this become arguing over pointless semantics? If the officer was firing in rapid succession like is reported, were talking about literal fractions of a single second between those last two trigger pulls. Even if it was the second to last round that put MB down, I highly doubt there was enough time for the cop to process what just happened between those two shots.
 

2clicker

Observer
Which would mean your talking about either the last, or second to last round fired. At which point does this become arguing over pointless semantics? If the officer was firing in rapid succession like is reported, were talking about literal fractions of a single second between those last two trigger pulls. Even if it was the second to last round that put MB down, I highly doubt there was enough time for the cop to process what just happened between those two shots.

yeah... agreed
 

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
I just wanted to say that I've been following this thread like a hawk, just waiting until I should ABV the shit out of it. I've been pleasantly surprised that the discourse has remained at a civil level and I want to commend you all for that. Let's hope it continues this way.

:peace:
 

Been Vapin

Fringe Class
Holy shit some of the protesters are going crazy. The whole scene right now is something straight out of a movie. 100s of media, 100s of protesters, a lot of cops, tear gas clouds, cops telling reporters to get own BC incoming gunfire, reporters gassed, etc.

Did anyone else see the few times guys in cars were about to drive up to the police line? Talk about tense moments.

I don't usually watch TV, but I caught some Fox news coverage. Shep Smth sounded like he was about to shit his pants when that happend.

The National Guard has been called in.

BvYYJu2CYAAh5Pv.jpg:large
 
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grokit

well-worn member
Thank you! I said the same thing. If he was running at the cop, why not shoot at MB's legs? I doubt he was running in a zig zag pattern. Maybe the cop was just a terrible shot?
I'm starting to think that mb both had his hands up, and was also trying to protect his head against a hail of bullets with his arms, probably falling forward at the end which is why the bullet entered on the top of his head. I do feel bad for this cop, there does seem to be evidence of some kind of a struggle, but in the end the guy was running away unarmed and the cop lost it; now he's on a paid vacation.

To me personally, based on both accounts, the force was excessive. This is just my feeling. Also, my feeling is that the cop will not face any jail time. AGAIN, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
Yeah it sounds like he was clearly subdued before those last few bullets flew.


Is it that "the general attitude of cops is past the point of sanity", or is it more likely that people are inclined to upload videos of cops misbehaving rather than videos of them doing their job properly?
I agree that most cops aren't complete psychos. And I'm sure many if not most of them are decent people. But the bad eggs have a tendency to drag the rest down, especially in a situation like this.

There is a problem in general nationally imo, it's getting worse and the militarization of the local police has to stop; at least kick it up to the state level. The pentagon forked over half a billion to the local cops in one year. There's simply no reason for it when violent crime in the usa is at a 40-year low.


St Louis County police just released the details from their autopsy... yep they have confirmed that there were fatal gun shots! congratulations!
Third one's a charm, now we're just waiting on the feds :cool:

Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon emphasized the role of the federal investigation over local efforts during a series of appearances on Sunday morning news shows.

10628327_10152639233339381_2930348558842027610_n.jpg

;)
 
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grokit

well-worn member
Home » News »
Constitutional Rights Essentially Suspended in Ferguson as Police Raid Homes Door to Door
Nick Bernabe | The Anti-Media

(live)

"According to journalists’ firsthand accounts found in the live streaming video from Tim Pool of Vice News (posted above, but may not be currently live), police or National Guard troops are now sweeping houses door to door in Ferguson, MO.

This is a blatant violation of the constitution under the 4th amendment:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

These door to door searches are presumably in response to shots being fired at authorities, which were supposedly also witnessed by journalists in the area."
...


Scott Olson from Getty Images was arrested too, he was later released tho.
Three more journalists, a trend?

Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson ordered the arrests of Financial Times reporter Neil Munshi, Telegraph foreign correspondent Rob Crilly and Sports Illustrated writer Robert Klemko


when exactly did this mindset change in police?
I think it was when they got the free tanks and rocket launchers.


10574210_732579456790139_4071009919200820492_n.jpg
 
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olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
Constitutional Rights Essentially Suspended in Ferguson as Police Raid Homes Door to Door
Home » News » Constitutional Rights Essentially Suspended in Ferguson as Police Raid Homes Door to Door
Nick Bernabe | The Anti-Media

(live)

"According to journalists’ firsthand accounts found in the live streaming video from Tim Pool of Vice News (posted above, but may not be currently live), police or National Guard troops are now sweeping houses door to door in Ferguson, MO.

This is a blatant violation of the constitution under the 4th amendment:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

These door to door searches are presumably in response to shots being fired at authorities, which were supposedly also witnessed by journalists in the area."
...



Three more journalists, a trend?

"Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson ordered the arrests of Financial Times reporter Neil Munshi, Telegraph foreign correspondent Rob Crilly and Sports Illustrated writer Robert Klemko, according to The Washington Post."
Great article you referenced here is the link for others to see:
http://theantimedia.org/constitutio...n-ferguson-as-police-raid-homes-door-to-door/

Amnsty International is in Ferguson to investigate human rights violations. First time they have reported from the US.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...8/amnesty-international-has-come-to-ferguson/
 

Madcap79

Jack of all trades, master of none.

2clicker

Observer
Home » News »
Constitutional Rights Essentially Suspended in Ferguson as Police Raid Homes Door to Door
Nick Bernabe | The Anti-Media

(live)

"According to journalists’ firsthand accounts found in the live streaming video from Tim Pool of Vice News (posted above, but may not be currently live), police or National Guard troops are now sweeping houses door to door in Ferguson, MO.

This is a blatant violation of the constitution under the 4th amendment:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

These door to door searches are presumably in response to shots being fired at authorities, which were supposedly also witnessed by journalists in the area."
...



Three more journalists, a trend?

Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson ordered the arrests of Financial Times reporter Neil Munshi, Telegraph foreign correspondent Rob Crilly and Sports Illustrated writer Robert Klemko


I think it was when they got the free tanks and rocket launchers.


10574210_732579456790139_4071009919200820492_n.jpg

their right to assemble is being violated as well. the police simply cannot make protestors move form their assembly spot. but they are. and if they dont move they get gassed, shot with rubber, or arrested.

i watched the cops scream at a guy to move and he said "where am i supposed to go"... and w/out answer two cops tackle him and arrest him. it is truly horrible how the police are treating americans here and all over this country. and this shit in ferguson isnt going to end until the police pump the fucking breaks and do their job in accordance to the constitution.

i wonder how many of these cops standing on the line wish deep down inside that they could open fire on all the protestors. you can tell they despise them.

I bet gun sales are skyrocketing from these events.

they are up all around the state.
 

grokit

well-worn member
TOP STORIES

VIOLENCE CONTINUES IN FERGUSON “Strict new protest rules and the presence of the National Guard in Ferguson didn’t prevent fresh clashes with police on Monday night, the ninth night of unrest since unarmed black teenager Michael Brown was shot dead by a white police officer on Aug. 9.” Two men were shot, two fires were started, and 31 people were arrested last night, including a 90-year-old Holocaust survivor. Attorney General Eric Holder is heading to St. Louis tomorrow to oversee the case. The first day of school has been postponed to next week for all schools in the Ferguson-Florissant district. And lawmakers are already evaluating the Pentagon program that has resulted in the dispersion of military gear to police precincts across the country. [HuffPost]

Did you see the follow-up to that video, where at the end the talking head said that paramedics at the scene wanted to administer cpr and were told not to? His body was "on the ground for hours".


This is an interesting perspective:

What It Was Like In The Streets On Ferguson’s Worst Night
After promising change, the police let loose with rubber bullets, tear gas, and flash bombs three full hours before curfew. “They didn’t give us no warning."

enhanced-buzz-20526-1408398886-8.jpg

Lucas Jackson / Reuters

FERGUSON, Missouri — It was a little after 9 p.m., and I was in the McDonald’s parking lot, standing by my car. A police helicopter circled overhead, its spotlight sweeping back and forth.

Then I heard the sound of shattering glass: A rubber bullet had been fired through a window of McDonald’s, which until then, had been one of the few sanctuaries on West Florissant Avenue.

Now I didn’t feel safe anywhere.

State troopers in riot gear and armored trucks moved south on West Florissant, firing flash grenades and tear gas canisters at a crowd of protesters who only minutes before had been chanting, “Fuck the police.”

In a panic, I turned to the crowd of officers behind me — some with arms folded, others holding batons — and sought an explanation: The state-imposed curfew wasn’t set to begin for another three hours. Where were we supposed to go?

The response: “You better get the fuck out of here.”

(lots more)
http://www.buzzfeed.com/joelanderson/what-it-was-like-in-the-streets-on-fergusons-worst-night


John Oliver: "Take it all away from them":

 
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