the addiction debate

[KimDracula]

From reading through it seems like the problem is some anxiety and a hard-line philosophy when it comes to taking any intoxicants into the body. Unfortunately these probably go hand-in-hand and combine to punish the OP.

For the anxiety I recommend more Indica-leaning strains. I also found CBD isolate to be helpful. I am still reducing my Rx of Clonazepam slowly and found that the CBD calms the mind immensely. There's a feeling that I think of as brain fire when my head feels like a nest of live wires spitting sparks. It's somewhat similar to a tweaky meth high or the one that comes with way too much caffeine. The CBD is great for that.

If cannabis is helpful and doesn't have a negative effect on one's life then there's no reason to fret about dependency or that you should be "natural." There's no morality when it comes to living a better life. There's no reason to think you should be wary of something simply because it's good. Don't let your brain invent a problem if there isn't one. Cannabis doesn't have to be a cure-all or even a cure. It can be a treatment that helps you live a better life.

 

[Baron23]

so in other words, ALL strains induce SOME KIND of anxiety?
(also depends on the individual i guess)
or there are some other specific kinds that don't do that at all?

You are asking me this question? Do you even consume this stuff, rozroz?

Seriously, I no idea where you are really coming from.

In any case, @herbivore21 answered the question for you very well, I believe.

Cheers

 

[rozroz]

You are asking me this question? Do you even consume this stuff, rozroz?

Seriously, I no idea where you are really coming from.

In any case, @herbivore21 answered the question for you very well, I believe.

Cheers

What is unclear to you?
all i say is that i do not have "access" to trying many strains, and mainly use Sativa when available because it helps creativity, which is what i seek.
I do know That i cant tell the difference in mental effect between various kinds of strains i did use in he last 2 years..

 

[lwien]

Lots of varying definitions for the term addiction but for me, the most compelling definition is that ANY substance or activity that you KNOW negatively affects your life yet you feel compelled to partake in it anyway, is an addiction and should be addressed as such.

The monkey wrench in what I stated above is that one of the hallmarks of ANY addiction is denial that manifests itself by either one claiming that their actions is not negatively affecting their lives when it obviously is to everyone else around them, and two, when one uses the classic excuse of, "I can quit anytime I want to. I just don't want to now." which is an excuse that I've used myself more than a few times in the past.

 

[invertedisdead]

Some psychologists argue that depression itself can become an addiction.

 

[Tranquility]

Oddly, the pic seemed to fit best here. (From a difficulty choice screen for a game.)

 

[invertedisdead]

The word addiction is like a forest. There are one hell of a lot of trees.
This way no matter what is ailing you the addiction doctor has a room with a view for you. Not to mention the social interaction of religion based recovery groups.

Those "Passages Malibu" commercials sure look nice though...

I want that view sans heroin journey.

 

[rozroz]

But let's say i can get irritated easily, it's my nature, and when times are ok i can live with it rather decently.
Now suppose i start using MJ for whatever reason, and under the influence i can be more calm and soft.
What will hoppen very quickly is i will be more easily irritated without MJ, and sort of lose my natural balance... unless i continue to get high, or to know i will get high in evening etc..

So before i started using MJ i had it all under control and it wasn't a problem.
But now it is.
So isn't that being mentally addicted?

 

[invertedisdead]

But let's say i can get irritated easily, it's my nature, and when times are ok i can live with it rather decently.
Now suppose i start using MJ for whatever reason, and under the influence i can be more calm and soft.
What will hoppen very quickly is i will be more easily irritated without MJ, and sort of lose my natural balance... unless i continue to get high, or to know i will get high in evening etc..

So before i started using MJ i had it all under control and it wasn't a problem.
But now it is.
So isn't that being mentally addicted?

I'm a bit confused, because you say before you used MJ everything was under control and not a problem, but you opened up saying it's in your nature to be easily irritated. Regarding depression, are you bi-polar? Maybe you are experiencing two separate personalities regarding cannabis. You have pretty intense psychological tendencies for something you don't really use very much. 2-3x a week and you feel addicted? Kinda like having a beer once a week and calling yourself an alcoholic. It's one thing to not want feel dependent on any substance, I understand and appreciate that very much, but it's another thing entirely to exaggerate your use to the point you beat yourself up over it.

Have you tried/considered meditation?

 

[rozroz]

@invertedisdead

I specifically said: "let's say--"
For the sake of the argument.
Doesnt have to be me.
Whats that has to do with being bi polar??

Seems i am not understood too well.
Maybe it's my English. Sorry.

 

[invertedisdead]

@invertedisdead

I specifically said: "let's say--"
For the sake of the argument.
Doesnt have to be me.
Whats that has to do with being bi polar??

Seems i am not understood too well.
Maybe it's my English. Sorry.

Bi-polar tendency would explain the love/hate relationship with MJ in my opinion.

Picture this mental conversation: "It helps me, but I don't want to be helped, because I shouldn't be helped, so it doesn't help me."

There appears to be some shame/guilt which is totally understandable given the negative propaganda of this medicine. This makes sense because there is usually shame/guilt associated with depression too, so together you get a compound effect.

I do wish you the best rozroz, you seem like an honest guy just trying to figure it all out. I relate to a lot of your feelings, regardless if I've made it clear or not. I've sometimes felt it wasn't for me, but the most important thing a depressed brother can do is remember to take it one day at a time. Sometimes we focus on making progress or the future so much, we bury ourselves just trying to handle that much weight at once. We can only do and take so much at a time.

 

[Baron23]

Some recent studies proved scientifically everything can be an addiction since you repeat it.

Well, in the age of a 12 step program for just about anything, I suppose I should be too surprised to see an interpretation equating habituation to addiction and, from personal experience, there is a difference clearly not discerned by these studies.

What is unclear to you?
all i say is that i do not have "access" to trying many strains, and mainly use Sativa when available because it helps creativity, which is what i seek.
I do know That i cant tell the difference in mental effect between various kinds of strains i did use in he last 2 years..

Well Rozroz - I didn't mean to be snide, but it just doesn't take very much MJ experience to know that there is often an anxiety component to MJ, that this varies by strain, and that in general sativas induce more anxiety than indicas.

Yes, people react differently and if you are prone to anxiety then anxiety inducing strains will most like have more of a negative effect that on people who are generally anxiety free (at least that's my observation). But for any given individual, yes....some strains have much more anxiety inducing potential than others.

Cheers

 

[rozroz]

I understand you are trying to be as helpful as possible @invertedisdead, and it's amazing that FC has this community.
But just to make sure, i really dont have any serious mental condition.
I am 43 and taking good care of my self.
Maybe it seemed confusing because my English is secong language.
I only shared my thoughts on the matter.

I am simply a very sensitive person who tends to think too much,
And the addiction issue with MJ is something i wanted to discuss on many aspects. Like my last example.
I do not need or seek help, only healthy fruitful discussions, ideas, etc.

 

[invertedisdead]

I understand you are trying to be as helpful as possible @invertedisdead, and it's amazing that FC has this community.
But just to make sure, i really dont have any serious mental condition.

Wow okay, I was under the impression you were depressed!

 

[Squiby]

will be more easily irritated without MJ, and sort of lose my natural balance... unless i continue to get high, or to know i will get high in evening etc..

So before i started using MJ i had it all under control and it wasn't a problem.
But now it is.

It sounds to me like weed may not be for you or the hypothetical situation you describe.

If say, you are more easily irritated without it and feel like you are losing your natural balance... you might want to look for a different solution.

If you feel that you had it all under control before partaking in weed and dealing with depression wasn't a problem, but now it is, it may not be a helpful habit to continue.

If it does not make you feel good, why do it?

I can't say I've ever really been depressed. I am naturally a happy, positive person and I feel that flower has nudged me ever so slightly further in that direction. I also experience no negative effects at all from consuming weed.

I enjoy everything about it. I like the ritual of vaporizing using my Vapcap. I enjoy the effects of several microdose sessions, throughout the day, almost every single day. I consume tiny tiny amounts of Sativa during the day to help with energy and it keeps me productive. It very effectively fights fatigue. The after effects seem to affect my mood in a positive way and I feel satisfied, happy and content after I come down and through the following day even if I don't partake. I never feel a craving to get high and I never really miss it when I'm doing things that should be done straight.

Cannabis is absolutely for me. I love everything about it. I regrettably suspect that it just may not be for you.

 

[BeardedCrow]

I've been to about 100 dispensaries in my life, I've maybe seen ONE person who probably NEEDED medical cannabis.
Id say 99.9% are there (including me) for recreational purpose.
Cannabis is probably as addictive as Iphones.
Try taking an iPhone from a kid...

 

[herbivore21]

I understand you are trying to be as helpful as possible @invertedisdead, and it's amazing that FC has this community.
But just to make sure, i really dont have any serious mental condition.
I am 43 and taking good care of my self.
Maybe it seemed confusing because my English is secong language.
I only shared my thoughts on the matter.

I am simply a very sensitive person who tends to think too much,
And the addiction issue with MJ is something i wanted to discuss on many aspects. Like my last example.
I do not need or seek help, only healthy fruitful discussions, ideas, etc.

Oh man! I think we have a misunderstanding here.

Cross-cultural understandings of mental-illness vary greatly. Many parts of the world understand mental illness very differently. In countries like the US and others, there have been developments in understanding that depression and anxiety are serious conditions to be headed off before they become a bigger issue.

In many societies though older ideas (which were also prominent in the US and others in the past) where we might tend to say 'I am a bit worried' rather than I'm experiencing anxiety (by the way, anxiety is a mental state like you describe yourself getting which may or may not have any associated physical symptoms like panic attacks), or 'I'm a bit blue'. This is almost the opposite of the tendency in places like the US for some people to use medical language like depression and anxiety for milder stuff.

A lot of societies still carry profound negative stigma toward the mentally ill (even those who are experiencing mild mental illness symptoms like it seems you have with the depression and admit to as much). This is culturally communicated just like other social norms, and this means that people who suffer from these symptoms (especially very mildly so) are likely internalize the stigma towards mental illness and think less of themselves if they admit to having such a condition, even a very mild one which is really only even diagnosed so that support can be available to prevent it from getting worse in particularly hard times.

Remember, there are mood-effecting conditions that may only manifest in mild, almost stable depression over the lifespan and not necessarily any other symptoms. These are conditions that are not necessarily considered the most serious mental illnesses, those with these conditions are not consider crazy or delusional, just people with a tendency to be mildly depressed reasonably often like you seem to say.

This is not to say that you definitely have one of these mild conditions, but do consider that this is a possibility and if you have not tried Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, please give it a shot because it is generally more successful for mild depression and you won't have to take medication if you don't want to

By the way man, no hard feelings at all towards you in my previous messages, clearly there has been miscommunication at some points. Also your English is overall actually not bad at all my friend - I think this is more likely a difference in cultural understandings of mental illness.

 

[rozroz]

It sounds to me like weed may not be for you or the hypothetical situation you describe.

If say, you are more easily irritated without it and feel like you are losing your natural balance... you might want to look for a different solution.

If you feel that you had it all under control before partaking in weed and dealing with depression wasn't a problem, but now it is, it may not be a helpful habit to continue.

If it does not make you feel good, why do it?

I can't say I've ever really been depressed. I am naturally a happy, positive person and I feel that flower has nudged me ever so slightly further in that direction. I also experience no negative effects at all from consuming weed.

I enjoy everything about it. I like the ritual of vaporizing using my Vapcap. I enjoy the effects of several microdose sessions, throughout the day, almost every single day. I consume tiny tiny amounts of Sativa during the day to help with energy and it keeps me productive. It very effectively fights fatigue. The after effects seem to affect my mood in a positive way and I feel satisfied, happy and content after I come down and through the following day even if I don't partake. I never feel a craving to get high and I never really miss it when I'm doing things that should be done straight.

Cannabis is absolutely for me. I love everything about it. I regrettably suspect that it just may not be for you.

I wish it was that simple for me.
Maybe its not for me.
But still since i got back to using it,
It really boosted my creativity while focusing on my art.
Without it i can end up not creating anything.

 

[invertedisdead]

I've been to about 100 dispensaries in my life, I've maybe seen ONE person who probably NEEDED medical cannabis.
Id say 99.9% are there (including me) for recreational purpose.
Cannabis is probably as addictive as Iphones.
Try taking an iPhone from a kid...

It's unfortunate because those I know that need it can't get to a dispensary. A lot of these guys are veterans, no vehicle, low income housing. Some have it delivered, but truthfully many can't really afford to go through a dispensary anyways. The ones I know that NEED a large quantity of cannabis definitely can't afford it as their medical bills have left them financially drained.

 

[Squiby]

I wish it was that simple for me.
Maybe its not for me.
But still since i got back to using it,
It really boosted my creativity while focusing on my art.
Without it i can end up not creating anything.

Have you tried microdosing?

 

[rabblerouser]

It's unfortunate because those I know that need it can't get to a dispensary. A lot of these guys are veterans, no vehicle, low income housing. Some have it delivered, but truthfully many can't really afford to go through a dispensary anyways. The ones I know that NEED a large quantity of cannabis definitely can't afford it as their medical bills have left them financially drained.

yeah, in MA i see guys with prosthetic legs semi regularly.

 

[ZC]

I've been to about 100 dispensaries in my life, I've maybe seen ONE person who probably NEEDED medical cannabis.
Id say 99.9% are there (including me) for recreational purpose.
Cannabis is probably as addictive as Iphones.
Try taking an iPhone from a kid...

I really resent this idea. You can't just look at people and know if or why they need cannabis. They might look and seem completely "normal" but a lot of disabilities are invisible.

While I'm sure there are many that use the medical system for recreation, I don't like assuming people don't need their medicine just because you don't physically see anything "wrong" with them.

 

[herbivore21]

I've been to about 100 dispensaries in my life, I've maybe seen ONE person who probably NEEDED medical cannabis.
Id say 99.9% are there (including me) for recreational purpose.
Cannabis is probably as addictive as Iphones.
Try taking an iPhone from a kid...

Man you really can't possibly know if someone 'needs' medical cannabis just by being around them at a dispensary when they are there. There are so many serious health conditions that are invisible to bystanders! Consider that many of the most promising applications of cannabis are for neurological conditions and psychological conditions. These are often invisible conditions and take painstaking work to diagnose for professionals (and usually only psychologists and neurologists who specialize in the relevant conditions are equipped to do the diagnosing, not even all psychs and neuros!) and are simply not within the capabilities of your average Joe Citizen. Of course, there is a likelihood that there is a percentage of people who buy from Cali dispensaries for recreational purposes of course. We need to consider the Cali context though. The Cali medical system as it has taken shape over the years is not an adequately regulated medical system IMO, it is a de facto recreational system - otherwise we wouldn't be walking into a doctors office, paying 50 bucks, getting your card over a skype appointment and then walking downstairs into the dispensary

I do think that recreational should be legal, but man there should be separate, properly regulated medical system done with proper medical scientific rigor. There is so much counter-productive dismissal of genuine Cali medical patients because there is no way to separate who is who in a Cali dispensary given the above. This really doesn't help the genuine sick people. BTW man I'm not referring to your comments here, I have heard much more dismissive ones than that from the Cali scene (if that is even where you are lol, I am just guessing here from what you've said).

I think proper regulation will resolve the problem with negative judgements made about medical patients being 'not genuine medical'. After all, when there's a system for medical separate from everything else, things are different. People don't tend to sit in a doctor/specialist's waiting room which only serves sick people and look at all the other patients and think 'man he's not really sick' do we?

It's unfortunate because those I know that need it can't get to a dispensary. A lot of these guys are veterans, no vehicle, low income housing. Some have it delivered, but truthfully many can't really afford to go through a dispensary anyways. The ones I know that NEED a large quantity of cannabis definitely can't afford it as their medical bills have left them financially drained.

Man the fact that the government won't pay for mmj for vets is a national disgrace. You give orders to someone that make a mess of their life, you fucking pay to clean it up afterwards - whatever works, no matter what exceptions need to be made with regard to prohibition. Ugh.

This is such a real issue that you raise though. Like many medications that are expensive to retail, there needs to be some kind of subsidy program for those most vulnerable patients to still have access. It can't just be a little voluntary dispensary-by-dispensary thing because this will never meet the overall need out there. Sick people tend to have less money because they're sick and it's harder to earn!

 

[rozroz]

Have you tried microdosing?

the quality of the stuff i can get (in Israel, if you do not have Cancer or similar diseases
it's almost impossible to get a prescription).
varies from great to crap.
now that i have a good strain, i start at lowest temp and can really play with micro dosing properly.
if i had many strain options i would surly start using more relaxing ones, with little THC.

 

[Farid]

My Palestinian friends say that Lebanese hash is really cheap and plentiful in the North. Traditional style hash tends to have higher CBN to THC ratio, and I find CBN is less anxiety provoking. Maybe seek cannabis outside of your medical system? I know here in MA that the cannabis in dispensaries is mostly around 20% THC whereas the bud I can get on the black market is about 15% and is roughly 2/3 the price. Now I like a high THC so I go for the medical bud, but if I was looking for more mellow effects I would seek out weaker cannabis.