The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I would love to be a fly on the wall during these recent RNC meetings. Now THAT would be entertaining..........but flys can't laugh. FUCK !!!

I think early on the RNC were hoping to use Trump to energize the campaign and didn't realize they were creating this monster until it was too late.

Kind of like Dr. Frankenstein realizing he doesn't know how to get Frankentrump to lay back down on the table. The best part is that this time the townsfolk will burn the RNC to the ground with those pitchforks and torches in favor of Frankentrump. Hey...you created this thing...now you gotta live with him...It's ALIVE!
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I don't think the immigration problem is a hard issue to explain to children. Their lives are so terrible and there is so much poverty where they live they are willing to face the unknown and go somewhere else to live their lives. I've explained it to my own grandchildren.

It's not just Mexico there are other South American countries where it's unsafe to live. The police aren't even available to help the families from organized crime and violence.

People come to America to live a free life and be able to live where they feed the hungry and poor. A country safer from where they come from. It's not hard to explain.

Edit
Breaking News! Trump hinted he might break away from his pledge that he took. To not form a third independent party during the 2016 election.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
It almost gives credence to the bullies on the school grounds as a viable way to behave, eh?
Other than how we look to the world, I think this is the greatest damage that this Trump candidacy is doing to America. As adults we can watch the Donald and see what an ass he is without it damaging us long term. Our behavior is not still developing, at least in the way kids are. Our sense of right and wrong is likely pretty firmly ingrained, at least for most of us. We are not seeking or depending on role models to help guide our behavior.

But the young people watching this aren't already socialized. The example of an adult, and especially one running for President, acting like a bully and a chauvinist and a misogynist and a bigot/racist right on TV news can only make it more difficult if not impossible to send young people a good message about how to behave. We KNOW what results from "do as I say, not what I do" in families as well as other social settings.

How many new bigots and bullies are we creating, especially among the families of Trump supporters? What will be the long term effects of a dumbed down hostilely aggressive Presidential campaign on the American Electorate, and especially on their children?

I shudder to think...
 

TeeJay1952

Well-Known Member
People come to America to live a free life and be able to live where they feed the hungry and poor. A country safer from where they come from. It's not hard to explain.

Used to be that way but now that we are preoccupied with Corporate Welfare we have very little wherewithal for the actual poor and hungry.
This is a very amazing and perceptive child that asks " Why my ancestors coming here and taking the land from the indigenous people give us the right to ban others from coming here?"
Freedom is a state of being and not a facet of geography. Looking for arguments for why it is OK to ostracize or allow hunger anywhere by anyone is beyond my understanding. Don't think Bernie will prevail but I also think Hillary is the most qualified by a huge margin. I want to make America great some more not again!
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
In Mexico and other South American countries do they give children free breakfast and lunch when they are in school? The lower income families get free and reduced breakfast and lunch in our state. That comes from the federal government so it's wouldn't be just our state. Sorry off topic.

There's a reason that these families come here. It's a better place from where they come from. I know a lot of really nice Hispanic families, I welcome them here. We probably have about 15% Hispanics in our area. It's hard for a community to be dealing with a large community of low income immigrants. Some places it may be a problem, not here
 
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CarolKing,
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His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
An acquaintance of mine does drywall for a living .... you don't want to ask him for his viewpoint on illegal immigrants.

Another acquaintance of mine is a programmer .... you don't want to ask him for his viewpoint on legal immigrants and/or green cards.

I am not 'directly' affected and my view differs from the two above.

Perspective is often in the eye of the person cashing the check.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
It's astonishing how far we've come. A few years back Howard Dean got the hook for giving vent to an indecorous war whoop on tv. Now we get this years crop! Holy crow! How the would-be mighty have fallen.
Its funny, I never really understood how or why that took Dean down. I was quite surprised at the time and I still don't get it.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
Its funny, I never really understood how or why that took Dean down. I was quite surprised at the time and I still don't get it.

His war hoop was portrayed as temporary insanity and why would we ever want a president who could go temporarily insane. We've now graduated to a candidate who is permanently insane and apparently, that's not only just ok, but in fact, preferred.

But yeah, having that instance be Deans downfall never quite made sense to me either.
 

howie105

Well-Known Member
There has always been an ebb and flow in the swing of the pendulum in both parties but what is happening within the Democratic Party is minuscule as compared to what is going on within the GOP.

I see it as a split between the rank and file and the leadership. There is no way the party leadership wants the outrider candidates running off with an election and this time we have seen it starting to happen. I am looking forward to seeing how the shot callers bring it all back in line or at least try both in the short and long term.
 

grokit

well-worn member
For better or worse; we will be entertained, and we will end up with the leadership we deserve.
Even if it's the only inalienable right we have left, we will be entertained:popcorn:!

edit:

"To anyone familiar with Republican electoral tactics, it is clear that Trump is basically saying what their constituency believes -- that black people are lazy, Mexicans are stealing their jobs, torturing Arabs is fun, and women should stay in the kitchen. Of course Republicans cannot come out and say this given they need to attract moderates in general elections (who understand it is a tactic and vote mostly due to economic reasons), but the insinuation is enough to rile up and activate their base of angry white voters.

Trump's willingness to say this out loud is essentially pulling the rug out from beneath the establishment's feet and depriving them of a tactic that has proven successful for decades. Trump just doesn't bother insinuating -- he comes out and says it, much to the delight of the GOP base who instinctively understand that the political classes don't have their best interests at heart.

And this is where it gets interesting. As Krugman points out, Trump has also come out in favor of protecting social security -- a government program the GOP has been trying to dismantle for decades -- and publicly shamed George W. Bush for his invasion of Iraq. These issues are supposed to be off limit for Republican candidates -- sacred cows that can never be slain for fear of undermining the conservative sense of self. Yet here Trump is, arguing in favor of government programs, calling George W. Bush the worst president in history, and winning."


from
http://thedailybanter.com/2016/02/p...-donald-trumps-racism-given-they-invented-it/
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
This comes from David Brooks, a Republican commentator that I usually (not always) disagree with. This time I think he is right on.
-----------------
The Governing Cancer of Our Time

We live in a big, diverse society. There are essentially two ways to maintain order and get things done in such a society — politics or some form of dictatorship. Either through compromise or brute force. Our founding fathers chose politics.

Politics is an activity in which you recognize the simultaneous existence of different groups, interests and opinions. You try to find some way to balance or reconcile or compromise those interests, or at least a majority of them. You follow a set of rules, enshrined in a constitution or in custom, to help you reach these compromises in a way everybody considers legitimate.

The downside of politics is that people never really get everything they want. It’s messy, limited and no issue is ever really settled. Politics is a muddled activity in which people have to recognize restraints and settle for less than they want. Disappointment is normal.

But that’s sort of the beauty of politics, too. It involves an endless conversation in which we learn about other people and see things from their vantage point and try to balance their needs against our own. Plus, it’s better than the alternative: rule by some authoritarian tyrant who tries to govern by clobbering everyone in his way.

As Bernard Crick wrote in his book, “In Defence of Politics,” “Politics is a way of ruling divided societies without undue violence.”

Over the past generation we have seen the rise of a group of people who are against politics. These groups — best exemplified by the Tea Party but not exclusive to the right — want to elect people who have no political experience. They want “outsiders.” They delegitimize compromise and deal-making. They’re willing to trample the customs and rules that give legitimacy to legislative decision-making if it helps them gain power.

Ultimately, they don’t recognize other people. They suffer from a form of political narcissism, in which they don’t accept the legitimacy of other interests and opinions. They don’t recognize restraints. They want total victories for themselves and their doctrine.

This antipolitics tendency has had a wretched effect on our democracy. It has led to a series of overlapping downward spirals:
The antipolitics people elect legislators who have no political skills or experience. That incompetence leads to dysfunctional government, which leads to more disgust with government, which leads to a demand for even more outsiders.

The antipolitics people don’t accept that politics is a limited activity. They make soaring promises and raise ridiculous expectations. When those expectations are not met, voters grow cynical and, disgusted, turn even further in the direction of antipolitics.

The antipolitics people refuse compromise and so block the legislative process. The absence of accomplishment destroys public trust. The decline in trust makes deal-making harder.
We’re now at a point where the Senate says it won’t even hold hearings on a presidential Supreme Court nominee, in clear defiance of custom and the Constitution. We’re now at a point in which politicians live in fear if they try to compromise and legislate. We’re now at a point in which normal political conversation has broken down. People feel unheard, which makes them shout even louder, which further destroys conversation.

And in walks Donald Trump. People say that Trump is an unconventional candidate and that he represents a break from politics as usual. That’s not true. Trump is the culmination of the trends we have been seeing for the last 30 years: the desire for outsiders; the bashing style of rhetoric that makes conversation impossible; the decline of coherent political parties; the declining importance of policy; the tendency to fight cultural battles and identity wars through political means.

Trump represents the path the founders rejected. There is a hint of violence undergirding his campaign. There is always a whiff, and sometimes more than a whiff, of “I’d like to punch him in the face.”

I printed out a Times list of the insults Trump has hurled on Twitter. The list took up 33 pages. Trump’s style is bashing and pummeling. Everyone who opposes or disagrees with him is an idiot, a moron or a loser. The implied promise of his campaign is that he will come to Washington and bully his way through.

Trump’s supporters aren’t looking for a political process to address their needs. They are looking for a superhero. As the political scientist Matthew MacWilliams found, the one trait that best predicts whether you’re a Trump supporter is how high you score on tests that measure authoritarianism.

This isn’t just an American phenomenon. Politics is in retreat and authoritarianism is on the rise worldwide. The answer to Trump is politics. It’s acknowledging other people exist. It’s taking pleasure in that difference and hammering out workable arrangements. As Harold Laski put it, “We shall make the basis of our state consent to disagreement. Therein shall we ensure its deepest harmony.”
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
You know how when you open a fortune cookie and read the fortune out to your companions you are supposed to recite the words "in bed" after the text of the fortune on the strip of paper? The same thing goes whenever somebody says "Trump is winning". Add "35% of republican primary voters".
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
It's scarey to see all these people at Trump's rally. In Alabama Trump said he had 35.000 people. It looked like a lot.
 
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howie105

Well-Known Member
Its funny, I never really understood how or why that took Dean down. I was quite surprised at the time and I still don't get it.

There are all kinds of fuck ups (falling off a stage, throwing up, etc) in a campaign cycle and its up to the candidates staff to cover their butts. Most times they do it but sometimes its too graphic, the media refuses to cooperate or the candidates just can't stop themselves an it gets out. If I remember Dean got his screwup plaster all over and it just kept getting replayed over and over as he slipped into oblivion which is why operatives should never scrimp on PR handlers.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
On behalf of all the people who live in Alabama and are not voting for Trump, you know the democrats blacks, liberals, and even the moderate republicans thanks for the respect.
If they will contact me I will write notes of apology to all 16 of them...

Obviously I know there are more than 16. But I have a feeling I won't need to reorder stationary.
 
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