The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[Farid]

I know that this is getting way off topic here but your post brings up a question that I've pondered for some time. Europe has always had an assimilation problem as compared to the US and it's been this way way before the Syrian refugee issue. Why is that?

Edit: I guess one of the reasons could be is that the US is a relatively new country totally made up of immigrants (not withstanding the Native Americans) which can't be said for European countries, eh?

Europe has a history of nationalistic violence that dates back to the middle ages. The United States, having been founded by immigrants from all different backgrounds makes nationalism separate from race. There is no such thing as a racially pure "American" besides a Native American, whereas in Europe, some would say that there is such a thing as a racially French person, or a racially German person.

To relate that back to this topic, I don't think race is as big an issue in the United States as it is in Europe. I wouldn't expect a Jewish person like Sanders to get nearly as far given the antisemitic culture of Europe. I also think Obama would have been held back if this country were as racist as many European countries.

 

[whereskarlo]

I know that this is getting way off topic here but your post brings up a question that I've pondered for some time. Europe has always had an assimilation problem as compared to the US and it's been this way way before the Syrian refugee issue. Why is that?

Edit: I guess one of the reasons could be is that the US is a relatively new country totally made up of immigrants (not withstanding the Native Americans) which can't be said for European countries, eh?

That's a million dollar question! At first I was going to say America received more hard working immigrants who had to struggle to get there, showing their entrepreneurial spirit and willingness to succeed. But so did many immigrants in Europe.

One defining factor of the US is the no-nonsense approach. If you come you need to carry your own weight and give it your best shot. No room for losers. Europeans hate that and think it's terrible. In Europe it's a more socialistic attitude where immigrants are institutionalized in an attempt to "integrate" them. Those who don't fall in line fall out of society.

Come to think of it, Europeans used to despise Americans for their loud and bombastic (lol) behavior. I think you're right, Europe is old fashioned and addicted to its socialism and bureaucracy which makes it hard for newcomers to thrive. The US is entrepreneurial by nature and people are given a chance to succeed. At the very least you can grab a lawnmower and just go. In Europe you'd probably need a business license and permit for grass cutting or risk fines. It's always the European Commission suing Google and Apple while they're celebrated in the US as success stories.

 

[CarolKing]

@lwien i posted that article regarding Woody Guthrie and Donald Trump's dad several pages back. It was a very good article and tells us why Donald Trump is the man he is today.

 

[lwien]

@lwien i posted that article regarding Woody Guthrie and Donald Trump's dad several pages back. It was a very good article and tells us why Donald Trump is the man he is today.

Oops.......I missed that. Sorry for the repost.

 

[grokit]

I believe almost any republican would be better than Donald Trump.

I wonder about that
He's a bombastic prick, but he may be better than partisan hacks like rubio or cruz.
Let's hope we never have to find out

 

[cybrguy]

My kids have been hearing how important voting is along with open conversations and debates since they were old enough to have ears. They are well aware that as a family we tend to lean more toward democratic ideals but until the conversation below we hadn't talked about who we liked in the primaries.

With the above in mind here's a snipit from a recent conversation with my kids (2-mid to late 20s) and some of their close friends (4)...this conversation began with one of their friends asking if my wife and I were following the primaries this year.....My wife answered that she was for Hillary. I steered clear of who I'm currently leaning towards and said 'I'd like to hear who you are considering voting for'....

Each of them said Bernie. Here's the responses...right, wrong or indifferent when I asked 'Why Bernie'? The top 2 responses were...
- It's time we had a National Healthcare System like other countries.
- The top 1% within the top 10% need to pay substantially higher taxes and need to have their ability to influence the country as whole lessened.

When I said 'Do you think a Jewish Socialist can win and make a difference'? The responses were:
- We already have socialist programs for things like social security, medicare and public schools that are working and good for America.
- I don't care that he's Jewish. (None of these kids are religious for what that's worth)

When I asked how they felt about raising taxes to pay for socialist programs the responses were:
- Bernie is going to tap corporations and the top 400 richest people in America the hardest.
- The amount my taxes will go up will be more than offset by how little I will pay for healthcare.

I'm not debating the accuracy of what these kids think. Nor am I saying they represent their demographic. Just that I was surprised by 6 millennials who were leaning toward Bernie. Call me a stereotypical thinker but I at least thought the young ladies would lean toward Hillary. As for Hillary the standard lines were uttered...Lack of trust, too establishment oriented and she has taken too much money from those she needs to reign in.

The question I wish you had asked, and if you did please tell us, is what do they intend to do when (ok, if) Bernie loses in the Primary. Will they still vote? Will they vote for Hillary. They have this annoying habit of staying home...

 

[whereskarlo]

I wonder about that
He's a bombastic prick, but he may be better than partisan hacks like rubio or cruz.
Let's hope we never have to find out

I find Cruz repulsive, as do I Hillary. There's something very dishonest and callous about them. Trump is playing politics but I have always wondered what could happen to America if an actual businessman/manager type was behind the wheel instead of a politician. I do believe things would get more effective, it comes down to ideology more than ever in a case like that.

 

[cybrguy]

I wonder about that
He's a bombastic prick, but he may be better than partisan hacks like rubio or cruz.
Let's hope we never have to find out

The idea of a Trump presidency scares me quite a bit. But not nearly as much as a Cruz presidency...

 

[CarolKing]

Between all the republican candidates President Jimmy Carter thinks that Donald Trump is more maliable and would be the better choice for the country. Of course he wants a democrat to win. I love Jimmy Carter so I might change my mind about which republican would be worse.

 

[Gunky]

All of the republican candidates suck! Even Rubio, now busy pandering to the xenophobic/anti-Muslim crowd. Cruz's tax scheme would turn us into a failed state. Even Bush, who now looks moderate, is pushing warmed over dubya policies which already failed big time.

 

[gangababa]

Ronald Reagen was malleable. Trump maybe.
Who is molding the clay?

A bad potter makes poor pottery, even with pure clay.
Republican philosophers, priests and pundits are not products of our better-beings.
The future they tell us they want to mold is not friendly to 99% of US.

One who says I,
"I am Republican because I believe the modern Republican party has the answers to America's fears and needs"
will never get my vote.

Flint Michigan!!!!

 

[His_Highness]

The question I wish you had asked, and if you did please tell us, is what do they intend to do when (ok, if) Bernie loses in the Primary. Will they still vote? Will they vote for Hillary. They have this annoying habit of staying home...

Damn! You're right! I should have asked that question.

I know my kids will vote and won't vote for a republican when they do. I'll have to ask my kids to ask their friends that question because you have roused my curiosity. I have a sneaking suspicion you're right and one or two may not vote if Bernie loses. My guess is that the ones that decide to abstain will be the ones who don't care about our glorious plant.

CAN'T WAIT FOR THE HILLARY-BERNIE DEBATE TONIGHT AT 9!!!!!!

 

[grokit]

Trump isn't accountable to anybody; he has his own money and that's a big deal.


How about the "puerto rican refugees" that are turning florida blue?

This could be huge for presidential politics, as well as rubio's future

The financial situation in Puerto Rico is at a crisis point, leading to proposals for a massive bailout that would ostensibly stabilize the island’s economy and protect small investors… but would, in fact, be a tremendous giveaway to Wall Street interests.

It’s a story people should be following across the nation, because it has ramifications for the 2016 election. In fact, Puerto Rico might have already decided the presidential race.

The presidential political angle is simple: thousands of Puerto Ricans have been flowing into Florida, particularly the “I-4 corridor” between Tampa and Orlando. They’re generally Left-leaning voters, and they have an exceptionally high rate of voter participation – voter turnout of eighty percent is not unheard-of in Puerto Rican elections.

A new report about how Puerto Ricans are changing Florida seems to pop up every month in the media. An article in Yahoo News last year floated the idea that the recent wave of arrivals might be reachable by Republicans, but this assertion seems largely on the “sizable number of doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers, lawyers, managers and professors” bailing out of Puerto Rico in its hour of crisis, and the assumption they might vote GOP because they’re career-oriented and live in upscale neighborhoods.

A September 2015 post from Fox News Latino found both Republican and Democrat teams working Puerto Rican events in Florida, battling for a share of the million-strong population, with a thousand new arrivals pouring into Central Florida every week. They voted for Barack Obama by an overwhelming margin in 2012.

more:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ontagion-today-puerto-rico-tomorrow-illinois/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/puerto-rico-rubio-florida-2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/03/b...kruptcy-in-puerto-ricos-debt-crisis.html?_r=0

 

[lwien]

I just watched the first half hour of the Democratic Debate on MSNBC and I gotta tell ya, this is the absolute best debate that I have ever seen. Watching these two politicians sparring against one another was like watching a great boxing match or MMA fight, or tennis match, etc. They both just really went at each other fiercely and passionately, but they both did it so brilliantly. It literally made all of the GOP debates seem like nothing more than a playground scuffle by a bunch of screaming spoiled little elementary school brats.

I have no idea what the next hour will show but I really enjoyed the first 30 minutes of this. THIS is what a debate SHOULD be.

 

[Chill Dude]

No matter what I do not want Hillary or Bill Clinton back in the White House. If the nominee is not Bernie Sanders I would rather join a boycott the vote movement than vote for Hillary Clinton. I am completely done with the Clinton thing and I hope other democrats send her packing down the road to be a full time granny.

So you'd rather see Trump, Cruz or Rubio in the White House? A no vote is a vote for the republican nominee. Everyone needs to be involved in the political process...

I'm for Bernie, but I would proudly vote for Hillary should she become the nominee!

 

[CarolKing]

A great debate. Wow, Bernie's response on NAFTA. He is doing really well. Agreed, the democrats make the republicans look like a bunch of bickering teenage girls. The moderators are doing a good job too.

Edit
He keeps sticking it to Hillary regarding campaign reform. I take that back about most of the questions. Stupid about asking them would they ask each other to be Vice President.

I like Rachel Madow.

Bernie's dad was an immigrant from Poland.

Where was Bill? Hillary looked alone at the end. He needed to be there.

 

[HillaryClinton]

I'm for no one, I hate everyone.

(No Lie)

 

[Gunky]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...pineless_coward_or_a_dangerous_extremist.html

Personally, I’m inclined to cut Rubio some slack. He had a busy day on the campaign trail and probably didn’t have time to read or see what Obama had said. But in that case, what possessed him to characterize the speech at all? And this isn’t the first time Rubio has misrepresented an Obama speech on this subject. Two months ago, after the San Bernardino, California, attack, Obama delivered similar remarks in a nationally televised address. In response, Rubio immediately went on Fox News and exploded: “The cynicism! The cynicism tonight, to spend a significant amount of time talking about discrimination against Muslims. Where is there widespread evidence that we have a problem in America with discrimination against Muslims?”
At that time, in early December, it’s possible that Rubio was simply ignorant. But that excuse won’t fly anymore. As many reporters have noted since then, the annual rate of hate crimes against Muslims in the United States has been five times higher after 9/11 than it was before. In
the most recent annual report, Muslims are the only group that suffered an increase in hate crimes. They endured far fewer attacks than Jews did, but 70 percent more than Christians did. Yet Rubio, while scoffing at anti-Muslim discrimination, routinely laments the plight of American Christians who feel stigmatized for their beliefs.

 

[Chill Dude]

A great debate. Wow, Bernie's response on NAFTA. He is doing really well. Agreed, the democrats make the republicans looks like a bunch of bickering teenage girls. The moderators are doing a good job too.
.

I agree, the MSNBC moderators did a great job.. They didn't keep interrupting and scolding the candidates like some other moderators. It was all about Bernie and Hillary and they basically let them slug it out over the issues without all the ego and drama

 

[CuckFumbustion]

I'm not debating the accuracy of what these kids think. Nor am I saying they represent their demographic. Just that I was surprised by 6 millennials who were leaning toward Bernie. Call me a stereotypical thinker but I at least thought the young ladies would lean toward Hillary. As for Hillary the standard lines were uttered...Lack of trust, too establishment oriented and she has taken too much money from those she needs to reign in.

Good for those critical thinking young ladies! They got their sights on their future. Where it's going to be all about how well you run the country. My stereotype being that they repeat what their parents say. But the kids today are a different breed. Be glad for that.

 

[HillaryClinton]

Why would any lady respect me, my man cheated on me and I stayed bros.

 

[CuckFumbustion]

I find it amusing that people will start groups to help separate Hillary's ties to former lobbies to make her more 'electable'. Maybe we should have a counseling centers to help politicians break their ties with corporations and there addiction to influence. Some local politicians don't even bother to campaign, much less run on a platform.

Here's a quandary. How do you get a mandate for things to get done in Washington without influence? It is currency in political circles. Who you know? While we all are having some sort of stimulating discussion trying to make sense of the issues.

But it is a different beast on the hill. If I remember some books and articles that show how the sausage is really made, I'll be sure to pass it on.

Trump worriers, if he isn't the kingmaker like I'm predicting and he get's traction, I'd be worried about Donald fatigue after inauguration. He has mentioned that phenom happening during campaigning. Then there is the prospect of 11 more months of Ted Cruz making everybody uncomfortable.

 

[howie105]

So right after commenting that things had been fairly civil to this point the definition of progressive pops and the civil thing takes a hit. This could be a informative stage of the run maybe I can learn something about the candidates I did not see before.

 

[His_Highness]

Based on the BernHill debate last night I'm still kinda riding the fence and as I've mentioned before.... that barb wire is starting to hurt. I thought Hillary was a tiny bit more on her game but not enough to get me off that fence. I went into the debate leaning toward Bernie and by the time the debate was over I was back to sitting straight up.

- Bernie's responses to foreign policy questions were weak in comparison to Hillary. Yeah...I know that's her thing. Bernie even said so.
- A few times I was waiting for Bernie to expound 'with details instead of sound bites and I didn't get them. Hillary seemed to have more substance to contribute in some cases. This struck me when he defended his approach to healthcare as not a complete dismantling of Obamacare but didn't clarify it further.
- I felt like Hillary flip flopped on the higher education topic. If I remember correctly she was way closer to Bernie in that area in the first debate.
- Hillary's Goldman Sachs speaking engagement, Super Pac money and voting for the Iraq invasion are some heavy baggage to carry but I thought she did an adequate job of it.

Opinions are like, well you know what they're like....anyone else?

 

[CuckFumbustion]

Opinions are like, well you know what they're like....anyone else?

Opinions are like buttonholes? Everybody has at least one. But that's my bowdlerized opinion.
Thanks for your takeaway and assessment of the speech. I might get enough stomach to actually watch it.
You might want to get a saddle for riding that fence in comfort for next few weeks. It's 'buttonhole' season.