The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

grokit

well-worn member
:uhh: What's a neoconservative republican warmonger to do?


Cornered Neocons: Trump’s heresy on foreign policy has put Republican hawks in nightmare scenario — backing Hillary Clinton
Clinton represents the status quo on foreign policy — aligning her far more with neocon values than Trump


Bill Kristol, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Robert Kagan (Credit: AP/Reuters/CBS)

“The war in Iraq was a big, fat mistake. All right? The war in Iraq, we spent $2 trillion, thousands of lives…We should’ve never been in Iraq. We have destabilized the Middle East. You call it whatever you want…They lied. They said there were weapons of mass destruction. There were none. And they knew there were none.”

~ Donald Trump​

A Trump nomination is a nightmare for the Republican establishment. There are many reasons why that’s so, some more obvious than others. To begin with, a Trump-led ticket would mean not just a third consecutive term for the Democrats, it would also result in down-ballot defeats and perhaps even the loss of their majority in the Senate – that’s reason enough to panic.

But one of the less discussed concerns surrounding Trump has to do with foreign policy; specifically, the fact that Trump doesn’t have one, and what he has said scares the hell out of Republican hawks. We saw a glimpse of this at a recent Republican debate, in which Trump popped the conservative bubble and said what no one else on that stage would – that the Iraq War was a mistake; that zealots exploited questionable intelligence for ideological purposes; and that military adventurism has made us and the world less safe. These are all indisputably true claims, and yet Republicans can’t accept them.

It’s heresy in the GOP to question the neoconservative paradigm – just ask Rand Paul. It’s assumed, as an article of faith, that America is the moral leader of the world; that we must not only defend our values across the world, we must also use force to remake it in our image. This is the thinking that gave us the Iraq War. It’s the prism through which most of the GOP still views international politics. Trump – and Bernie Sanders – represents a departure from this paradigm.

Although it’s unlikely to happen, a Trump-Sanders general election would have been refreshing for at least one reason: it would have constituted a total rejection of neoconservatism...

(more)
https://www.salon.com/2016/03/04/co...io_backing_hillary_clinton/?source=newsletter
 
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Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
So, this was on MSNBC this morning! No censors! :lol:


0tNwp5l.jpg
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
The thing that's most interesting to me in all of this is what is going to happen to the GOP. It's literally tearing itself apart. Will a third party arise out of all this? Will the GOP even exist after all of this and if it does, what in the hell will it look like? And, if it goes to a contested convention and the GOP electorate gets nullified and left in the dust, how will all that anger amongst it's electorate manifest itself.

While all of these shenanigans are entertaining, there is a real danger in all of this, regardless if Trump gets nominated or not.

Trump is fanning the flames of discontent much like Hitler did. Seems to be right of his playbook and when you see all of the vitriol, both verbal and physical, AND idolization at both the debates as well as at his gatherings, the similarities are staggering.

Some scary shit going on here.
 
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CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
I'm already hearing stirrings about the structure of the delegate process for the RNC. Much less Romney's plan for a brokered convention. Now they want us to get involved with their madness to stop Drumpf. :tinfoil: Oh wait he backed off from that pre-debate speech. Perhaps the RNC are planning to dump Trump on a technicality or some sort of shenanigans if he doesn't implode in time. So that whole process will hopefully be brought to light before it gets tampered with.
I agreed with Romney about civility until about 2/3 of the way in. Then came the twist. Then the appalling falsehoods that are too unpalatable to be taken seriously. Another typical Romney presentation. :lol:
 
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CuckFumbustion,

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
CNN said that Ted Cruz won the Kentucky Caucus and he's doing well in Maine. Maybe Trump overdid it the other night during the debate. Maybe what Romney said in his speech the other day hit a nerve with some voters.

Sanders is doing well today too. Too early yet to say for sure.
 
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CarolKing,
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His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
@CarolKing - I think Kentucky and Maine are closed primaries. Trump does much better in the open primaries. The open versus closed differences may be the reason Trump is claiming he is energizing the party with higher numbers than the previous primaries.
 
His_Highness,
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Donald Trump didn't go to the CPAC Convention today. I had read that there were going to be many republicans that were going to walk out when he spoke. Maybe that's why he didn't show up there?

Edit
Oops yes I made a mistake on the previous post I meant Kansas where Cruz won - overdid it with the Snoops Dream. Both states start with a "K".
 
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CarolKing,

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Donald Trump didn't go to the CPAC Convention today. I had read that there were going to be many republicans that were going to walk out when he spoke. Maybe that's why he didn't show up there?

I read an article today saying he dropped the CPAC because he doesn't do well in the closed primaries and he wanted to do more events in the closed states.

But...I think it's a combination of the two ... I think he knows he's worn out his republican welcome when it comes to the standard bearers so why take the CPAC beating when his time would be better spent glad handing at closed primary states.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
Always thought strychnine was better than arsenic.

Considering what's going on with the GOP, the DNC must be going like:

P7wcRm5.gif


Donald Trump didn't go to the CPAC Convention today. I had read that there were going to be many republicans that were going to walk out when he spoke. Maybe that's why he didn't show up there?

According to the head of CPAC, the reason why Trump dropped out was that he wanted to set the ground rules and not have any questions asked of him by the audience and CPAC said that they will not change their rules for any one candidate.

CNN said that Ted Cruz won the Kentucky Caucus

I think you meant Kansas. Kentucky is just beginning to come in.
 
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TeeJay1952

Well-Known Member
Note from Louie C K


P.S. Please stop it with voting for Trump. It was funny for a little while. But the guy is Hitler. And by that I mean that we are being Germany in the 30s. Do you think they saw the shit coming? Hitler was just some hilarious and refreshing dude with a weird comb over who would say anything at all.

And I’m not advocating for Hillary or Bernie. I like them both but frankly I wish the next president was a conservative only because we had Obama for eight years and we need balance. And not because I particularly enjoy the conservative agenda. I just think the government should reflect the people. And we are about 40 percent conservative and 40 percent liberal. When I was growing up and when I was a younger man, liberals and conservatives were friends with differences. They weren’t enemies. And it always made sense that everyone gets a president they like for a while and then hates the president for a while. But it only works if the conservatives put up a good candidate. A good smart conservative to face the liberal candidate so they can have a good argument and the country can decide which way to go this time.

Trump is not that. He’s an insane bigot. He is dangerous.

He already said he would expand libel laws to sue anyone who “writes a negative hit piece” about him. He says “I would open up the libel laws so we can sue them and win lots of money. Not like now. These guys are totally protected.” He said that. He has promised to decimate the first amendment. (If you think he’s going to keep the second amendment intact you’re delusional.) And he said that Paul Ryan, speaker of the house will “pay” for criticizing him. So I’m saying this now because if he gets in there we won’t be able to criticize him anymore.

Please pick someone else. Like John Kasich. I mean that guy seems okay. I don’t like any of them myself but if you’re that kind of voter please go for a guy like that. It feels like between him and either democrat we’d have a decent choice. It feels like a healthier choice. We shouldn’t have to vote for someone because they’re not a shocking cunt billionaire liar.

We should choose based on what direction the country should go.

I get that all these people sound like bullshit soft criminal opportunists. The whole game feels rigged and it’s not going anywhere but down anymore. I feel that way sometimes.

And that voting for Trump is a way of saying “fuck it. Fuck them all”. I really get it. It’s a version of national Suicide. Or it’s like a big hit off of a crack pipe. Somehow we can’t help it. Or we know that if we vote for Trump our phones will be a reliable source of dopamine for the next four years. I mean I can’t wait to read about Trump every day. It’s a rush. But you have to know this is not healthy.

If you are a true conservative. Don’t vote for Trump. He is not one of you. He is one of him. Everything you have heard him say that you liked, if you look hard enough you will see that he one day said the exact opposite. He is playing you.

In fact, if you do vote for Trump, at least look at him very carefully first. You owe that to the rest of us. Know and understand who he is. Spend one hour on google and just read it all. I don’t mean listen to me or listen to liberals who put him down. Listen to your own people. Listen to John Mccain. Go look at what he just said about Trump. “At a time when our world has never been more complex or more in danger… I want Republican voters to pay close attention to what our party’s most respected and knowledgeable leaders and national security experts are saying about Mr. Trump, and to think long and hard about who they want to be our next Commander-in-Chief and leader of the free world.”

When Trump was told what he said, Trump said “Oh, he did? Well, that’s not nice,” he told CBS News’ chief White House correspondent Major Garrett. “He has to be very careful.”
When pressed on why, Trump tacked on: “He’ll find out.”

(I cut and pasted that from CBS news)

Do you really want a guy to be president who threatens John McCain? Because John McCain cautiously and intelligently asked for people to be thoughtful before voting for him? He didn’t even insult Trump. He just asked you to take a good look. And Trump told him to look out.

Remember that Trump entered this race by saying that McCain is not a war hero. A guy who was shot down, body broken and kept in a POW camp for years. Trump said “I prefer the guys who don’t get caught.” Why did he say that? Not because he meant it or because it was important to say. He said it because he’s a bully and every bully knows that when you enter a new school yard, you go to the toughest most respected guy on the yard and you punch him in the nose. If you are still standing after, you’re the new boss. If Trump is president, he’s not going to change. He’s not going to do anything for you. He’s going to do everything for himself and leave you in the dust.

So please listen to fellow conservatives. But more importantly, listen to Trump. Listen to all of it. Everything he says. If you liked when he said that “torture works” then go look at where he took it back the next day. He’s a fucking liar.

A vote for Trump is so clearly a gut-vote, and again I get it. But add a little brain to it and look the guy up. Because if you vote for him because of how you feel right now, the minute he’s president, you’re going to regret it. You’re going to regret it even more when he gives the job to his son. Because American democracy is broken enough that a guy like that could really fuck things up. That’s how Hitler got there. He was voted into power by a fatigued nation and when he got inside, he did all his Hitler things and no one could stop him.

Again, I’m not saying vote democrat or vote for anyone else. If Hilary ends up president it should be because she faced the best person you have and you and I both chose her or him or whoever. Trump is not your best. He’s the worst of all of us. He’s a symptom to a problem that is very real. But don’t vote for your own cancer. You’re better than that.

That’s just my view. At least right now. I know I’m not qualified or particularly educated and I’m not right instead of you. I’m an idiot and I’m sure a bunch of you are very annoyed by this. Fucking celebrity with an opinion. I swear this isn’t really a political opinion. You don’t want to know my political opinions. (And I know that I’m only bringing myself trouble with this shit.) Trump has nothing to do with politics or ideology. He has to do with himself. And really I don’t mean to insult anyone. Except Trump. I mean to insult him very much. And really I’m not saying he’s evil or a monster. In fact I don’t think Hitler was. The problem with saying that guys like that are monsters is that we don’t see them coming when they turn out to be human, which they all are. Everyone is. Trump is a messed up guy with a hole in his heart that he tries to fill with money and attention. He can never ever have enough of either and he’ll never stop trying. He’s sick. Which makes him really really interesting. And he pulls you towards him which somehow feels good or fascinatingly bad. He’s not a monster. He’s a sad man. But all this makes him horribly dangerous if he becomes president. Give him another TV show. Let him pay to put his name on buildings. But please stop voting for him. And please watch Horace and Pete. - Louis C.K.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
I've always liked Louis C.K. . Now I have a reason to like him even more. Simply.................brilliant. He has this unique way of stripping everything down to it's bare essentials. He does it in his comedy and he did it here.

Thank you for sharing that, TJ.

Edit: Gotta add that while I agree with CK's comparison to Hitler, that that comparison for many of his supporters is not a turn-off but rather one of the main reasons why they like him.
 
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macbill

Oh No! Mr macbill!!
Staff member

lwien

Well-Known Member

lwien

Well-Known Member
Fucking Fox News. Simply amazing.

Here is their headline:
Why the 'Dilbert' creator is supporting Donald Trump

Mar. 06, 2016 - 6:14 - Cartoonist explains his support of the GOP candidate on 'Fox & Friends'


Now watch the video and tell me how in the hell that that headline is true.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/47887382...ing-donald-trump/?intcmp=hphz01#sp=show-clips

There is nowhere in that video that even hints that the creator of Dilbert is supporting Trump. As a matter of fact, the exact opposite is true.

But.....it is an interesting take on why Trump has so many supporters.
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
Meh, the Dilbert take is actually the same take as everybody else. Trump has no real program or policy. He pokes at people's insecurities, fears, prejudices, hatreds, etc. and tells them their problems are caused by various scapegoat foreigners, minorities, and so on.

The poverty and hopelessness of the white working class Americans are in fact not caused by immigrants taking their jobs away, not caused by foreign countries eating their lunch, not caused by a government that supposedly takes away from them and redistributes to members of minorities. The real cause of languishing working class economy is greedy capitalists who suck in ever more wealth while denying working class people a raise and who remorselessly ship their jobs to cheap sweatshops overseas. The problem is caused by a republican orthodoxy which characterizes helping the lower classes as 'dependency' while it shovels the lion's share of wealth, welfare, sweetheart deals and special breaks toward the top 1% creating ever greater disparities between rich and poor. It is caused by a republican orthodoxy that tries to silence workers, destroy their unions and their union's sources of funding and stop them from using collective bargaining. It's caused by a shitty, underfunded system of education that fails them. It's caused by dumbass republican anti-government ideas that somehow preclude ever updating our roads, bridges and other infrastructure, even at a moment where interest rates are near zero and the stimulus would ripple through the economy, employing a lot of those same disconnected, angry, working class whites and increasing tax revenue! There's more but you know the drill.
 
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mestizo

Well-Known Member
Meh, the Dilbert take is actually the same take as everybody else. Trump has no real program or policy. He pokes at people's insecurities, fears, prejudices, hatreds, etc. and tells them their problems are caused by various scapegoat foreigners, minorities, and so on.

The poverty and hopelessness of the white working class Americans are in fact not caused by immigrants taking their jobs away, not caused by foreign countries eating their lunch, not caused by a government that supposedly takes away from them and redistributes to members of minorities. The real cause of languishing working class economy is greedy capitalists who suck in ever more wealth while denying working class people a raise and who remorselessly ship their jobs to cheap sweatshops overseas. The problem is caused by a republican orthodoxy which characterizes helping the lower classes as 'dependency' while it shovels the lion's share of wealth, welfare, sweetheart deals and special breaks toward the top 1% creating ever greater disparities between rich and poor. It is caused by a republican orthodoxy that tries to silence workers, destroy their unions and their union's sources of funding and stop them from using collective bargaining. It's caused by a shitty, underfunded system of education that fails them. It's caused by dumbass republican anti-government ideas that somehow preclude ever updating our roads, bridges and other infrastructure, even at a moment where interest rates are near zero and the stimulus would ripple through the economy, employing a lot of those same disconnected, angry, working class whites and increasing tax revenue! There's more but you know the drill.
And to add a little to this post above.
It pisses me off that politicians are so fucking liars when they blame minorities for the ills of this country.
Either they are stupid, which doesn't qualify them for office, or they are plain and simple lying to the American public.
Why can they have balls and go after the real culprits.
Wall Street bankers, warmongers, private prisons system and the politicians supporting that, etc. etc. They are the people raping the country of its wealth, not minorities.
But it is easier to blame the group of people that are the weakest to defend themselves.
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
And to add a little to this post above.
It pisses me off that politicians are so fucking liars when they blame minorities for the ills l of this country.
Either they are stupid, which doesn't qualify them for office, or they are plain and simple lying to the American public.
Why can they have balls and go after the real culprits.
Wall Street bankers, warmongers, private prisons system and the politicians supporting that, etc. etc. They are the people raping the country of its wealth, not minorities.
But it is easier to blame the group of people that are the weakest to defend themselves.

One word.............scapegoat, a very biblical term right out of Leviticus but over the centuries it hasn't changed much. Sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to be a goat back then. :uhoh:
 
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