The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

grokit

well-worn member
I'm not sure if Bernie will end up as an 8 years president because of his age. He will be 83 at the end of his first term. In a perfect world Bernie would be 5 years younger.
Then it's a perfect world:love::tup:

Bernie is 74, and will be 75 in september. That makes him 79 at the end of his first term; 83 would be his age at the end of the second. Imo he's in as good of health as hillary (age 68) or the donald (age 69).
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I'm a privacy advocate, but imo Trump has this one right (at least on the surface).
:freak: What can I say, even a broken clock is right a couple of times a day:

Republican frontrunner Donald Trump backs FBI on Apple ruling
Y'all are missing the point. Encryption is binary, you either have it or you don't. You can't have a little encryption any more than you can be a little pregnant.

If Apple could give the government a way in to their devices they would be giving that to others as well. As we have seen it is virtually impossible for the government (or anyone else) to keep a secret. Is everyone really willing to give up encryption as a technology? What about industrial espionage? What about banking security? What about stock trading and finance? This is NOT optional, folks...
 

grokit

well-worn member
Y'all are missing the point. Encryption is binary, you either have it or you don't. You can't have a little encryption any more than you can be a little pregnant.

If Apple could give the government a way in to their devices they would be giving that to others as well. As we have seen it is virtually impossible for the government (or anyone else) to keep a secret. Is everyone really willing to give up encryption as a technology? What about industrial espionage? What about banking security? What about stock trading and finance? This is NOT optional, folks...

It seems like you didn't read through my post:

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the FBI request for access did not mean they were asking for a "backdoor" - or unauthorised access - into the company's device or for it to be redesigned. "They are simply asking for something that would have an impact on this one device," he told reporters on Wednesday.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
They can't get to the data without decripting it. Anything that Apple could create to decrypt the data could be used on other phones. They will have created a backdoor. Not gonna happen unless the government forces it and then the whole world loses... Major.
 
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His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I'm sorry. Can you tell me what some of the "extreme positions" the Democrats have "staked out" are? Not that I don't think there are any, I just wish you could point some out so I know what to be defensive about...

Based on the posts I've seen here lately I may have an answer for what some consider extreme:
Ugg. 5.3% growth? Suuuuuuure... Magic astericks. We have NEVER had that kind of growth, but Bernie can do it with his magic beans. Watch out for the giant, tho...
 
His_Highness,

Magic9

Plant Enthusiast
Gunky said:
I watched that interview with Friedman. It's worthless. The whole point is that in order to make it work Friedman has to posit 5.3% growth, which is fantasy.

You can argue about the findings of Friedman. You can even call it "fantasy econ". But by claiming that it is "Sanders' fantasy econ", it is a disservice to truth. Since Sanders never said it.

Gunky said:
I went to the link (here) from Bernie's campaign site and it also struck me that the payment methods, on the right side of the page, were all wonderful, just wonderful and highly unlikely to happen. It's like a liberal wish list! The only thing left off is everybody's pony...

Let me know when Clinton lays out her plan.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
One curious aspect is Apple's ambiguity about whether a) it's impossible to decrypt the info on the phone or b)they don't wish to go there.
Nothing is impossible with enough time and effort (and money) and I'm sure Apple with all the codebase could eventually break their encryption. Doing so would seriously damage their product and the whole encryption technology. It's hard to imagine their cooperation short of threats of jail...
 
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grokit

well-worn member
They can't get to the data without decripting it. Anything that Apple could create to decrypt the data could be used on other phones. They will have created a backdoor. Not gonna happen unless the government forces it and then the whole world loses... Major.
So are you saying that hillary, obama and the fbi are all wrong on this?

"Democratic hopeful Hillary Clinton has previously called for a "Manhattan-like Project" to address the issue of encryption, in reference to top-secret efforts by the US in developing nuclear weapons during World War Two. She said in December she hoped law enforcement agencies would work together in partnership with technology companies to provide access to encrypted technology used by terrorists.

FBI director James Comey has been critical of Google and Apple in recent months for creating new encryption technology that allows "terrorists to go dark".

But Jonathan Godfrey, vice president of the App Association which represents companies in the mobile app community, highlights the importance of maintaining "the strongest security to keep our most sensitive, private data safe" as smartphone and tablet consumers increasingly expect access to their most important data through the cloud."

It's an interesting issue to be sure.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Yes, if they say there needs to be a way to break encryption. I want that data too, but not at the cost of losing encryption. The cost is too high.
 
cybrguy,

grokit

well-worn member
Nothing is impossible with enough time and effort (and money) and I'm sure Apple with all the codebase could eventually break their encryption. Doing so would seriously damage their product and the whole encryption technology. It's hard to imagine their cooperation short of threats of jail...
Yes, if they say there needs to be a way to break encryption. I want that data too, but not at the cost of losing encryption. The cost is too high.
"The court had ordered the technology company to alter Farook's iPhone so that the FBI could make unlimited attempts at the passcode without the risk of erasing the data - Apple has provided default encryption on its devices since 2014, allowing only users with knowledge of the passcode to access its contents."

:hmm: It sounds like the fbi just wanted the access passcode, not an encryption bypass?
 
grokit,

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
So are you saying that hillary, obama and the fbi are all wrong on this?

"Democratic hopeful Hillary Clinton has previously called for a "Manhattan-like Project" to address the issue of encryption, in reference to top-secret efforts by the US in developing nuclear weapons during World War Two. She said in December she hoped law enforcement agencies would work together in partnership with technology companies to provide access to encrypted technology used by terrorists.

FBI director James Comey has been critical of Google and Apple in recent months for creating new encryption technology that allows "terrorists to go dark".

But Jonathan Godfrey, vice president of the App Association which represents companies in the mobile app community, highlights the importance of maintaining "the strongest security to keep our most sensitive, private data safe" as smartphone and tablet consumers increasingly expect access to their most important data through the cloud."

It's an interesting issue to be sure.

Where is Jack Bauer when we need him :lmao:

Seriously though...it is a slippery slope and I wish we didn't have to ride the slide for the sake of safety. I would like to see Apple do the decryption in-house and supply the info but not the technology AND then promptly update the encryption to something new afterwards. I know, I know....this is as likely to happen as Bernie's economic numbers :rofl:
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
Hillary and the FBI and so on probably are wrong about it. Hillary does not understand encryption, nor do most of the candidates. The whole idea of modern encryption is not to make it impossible to decode; just so difficult and time consuming that it becomes a practical impossibility. If Apple could crack their encryption, so could others (FBI, NSA, etc). What the politicians really want is some rule leaving call metadata unencrypted. Which kinda defeats the purpose of encryption.
 

howie105

Well-Known Member
If they roll on the phone its not just the camel coming into the tent its the whole camp. At the very least they will make the fed take them to court so they can continue the fight at a later date as new security protocols arise.

As what?
It sounds like they just want to take a look at the data, not get the encryption key :2c:

edit: trump is agreeing with obama, and hillary on this issue not just me :\

Its things like this agreement that lets me hold out a little hope for us all. Of course I wouldn’t trust any of them with my dogs.

Apologies to the Mods I did that double post thing again.
Modnote: Apology accepted. Posts merged.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
The crux, from cook:

"Rather than asking for legislative action through Congress, the FBI is proposing an unprecedented use of the All Writs Act of 1789 to justify an expansion of its authority.

The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force,” trying thousands or millions of combinations with the speed of a modern computer.

The implications of the government’s demands are chilling."


So trump is wrong, and this issue should be left to our dysfunctional congress to decide :tup:

From 1789; Dog help us :dog:!
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
The Electability Argument Unravels – Bernie Beats Hillary In ALL Hypothetical Matchups

"Hillary’s supporters want voters to believe that we have to nominate Mrs. Clinton or risk losing the election. This argument is built on lies, as the only available data shows that Bernie Sanders does better in all hypothetical matchups against Republicans than Hillary."
I am gonna say this one more time, but (I hope) this will be the last time because I hate repeating myself. THE GENERAL ELECTION POLLS SAY NOTHING ABOUT HOW BERNIE SURVIVES 1/2 BILLION DOLLARS IN NEGATIVE ADVERTISING! Ahem...

Hillary Clinton KNOWS that she can't attack Bernie for being a socialist because her party doesn't hate socialism. She is clear that that would hurt her campaign so it isn't going to happen. The Republicans obviously have no such restraint. THEY WILL attack him for being a socialist, and that will hurt him very badly. If we had a well educated electorate this would not be such a powerful condemnation, but we don't, so it is. And it will likely bring him down, or at least hurt him very badly. And we will likely have a republican president.
 

grokit

well-worn member
I am gonna say this one more time, but (I hope) this will be the last time because I hate repeating myself. THE GENERAL ELECTION POLLS SAY NOTHING ABOUT HOW BERNIE SURVIVES 1/2 BILLION DOLLARS IN NEGATIVE ADVERTISING! Ahem...

Hillary Clinton KNOWS that she can't attack Bernie for being a socialist because her party doesn't hate socialism. She is clear that that would hurt her campaign so it isn't going to happen. The Republicans obviously have no such restraint. THEY WILL attack him for being a socialist, and that will hurt him very badly. If we had a well educated electorate this would not be such a powerful condemnation, but we don't, so it is. And it will likely bring him down, or at least hurt him very badly. And we will likely have a republican president.
Thanks for making it clear how much your opinion differs from the facts, once again :tup:
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
But isn't Bernie doing better than predicted already? Still early yet

Maybe people care less about socialism than the experts think because people now realize socialist programs are actually good for the low and middle classes?
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I am gonna say this one more time, but (I hope) this will be the last time because I hate repeating myself. THE GENERAL ELECTION POLLS SAY NOTHING ABOUT HOW BERNIE SURVIVES 1/2 BILLION DOLLARS IN NEGATIVE ADVERTISING! Ahem...

Hillary Clinton KNOWS that she can't attack Bernie for being a socialist because her party doesn't hate socialism. She is clear that that would hurt her campaign so it isn't going to happen. The Republicans obviously have no such restraint. THEY WILL attack him for being a socialist, and that will hurt him very badly. If we had a well educated electorate this would not be such a powerful condemnation, but we don't, so it is. And it will likely bring him down, or at least hurt him very badly. And we will likely have a republican president.

As I've said earlier in this thread ... I don't put much store in polls since you can usually find another poll to contradict the one that favors your view. So c'mon @cybrguy ... show us your poll. Wait ... that didn't come out right.

In any case, according to the article the polls mentioned were based on 'the only available data'.
 
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