The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[grokit]

One of the many reasons holding the Senate is so important.

The gop has actually had control of both houses of congress for over a year now

 

[Chill Dude]

What is most common between Bernie and Donald is that they are both selling the public a bogus bill of goods. Neither can accomplish what they promise they intend to do, but it doesn't matter to their followers because they are so angry with the staus quo that they will support anyone who promises to destroy it. The fact that they cant do what they promise (many of their followers must realize this) is less important than expressing their anger.

Whoa now, that is a low blow to us Bernie supporters. I appreciate your opinion, but it's only your opinion, others feel much different. Your post is insinuating that Bernie supporters are basically stupid and are being duped by what you would describe as a pie in the sky bogus revolution that could never achieve any of his agenda. I take offense to that..

Being a progressive I believe( as to other progressives) in striving for lofty liberal based ideas delivering more social justice than we currently have in our broken system. Now, we're not naive to the point we think Bernie can immediately achieve all of his agenda, especially with the current conservative majority in congress. However, if we elect a progressive, we can start the conversation for change and empower the people to fight for social justice and economic fairness. It may take 5 or 10 years and it may be that some of the agenda will never come to be, but that doesn't mean we don't keep fighting for what we believe as progressives!

In my view, we have a rare opportunity right now to elect a true progressive. If the choice is Trump or Sanders, I feel Bernie has an excellent chance at being elected. The polls(at least at this time) show that this is the case and Bernie would trounce Trump and his extreme right wing racist agenda!

 

[Gunky]

What is most common between Bernie and Donald is that they are both selling the public a bogus bill of goods. Neither can accomplish what they promise they intend to do, but it doesn't matter to their followers because they are so angry with the staus quo that they will support anyone who promises to destroy it. The fact that they cant do what they promise (many of their followers must realize this) is less important than expressing their anger.

Sadly, what they don't realize is that selecting EITHER of them to occupy the White House would do incredible damage, not just to America, but to how we are viewed around the world and any influence we may have in moving humanity forward. And should we lose that influence, who gets it as a result may lead to the next world war...

This is pretty scary stuff...

Bernie isn't selling a bogus bill of goods. Bernie is right about campaign finance, influence of 1%, inequality issues, etc. He's right about most of that stuff. He's great right up to the part where we talk about how he is going to change that. He says 'a political revolution'. But based on our experience with Obama, that doesn't seem likely at all. Bernie has the vision thing down but unfortunately it's not gonna fly. If you want someone who might be effective in implementing some change, even if not vast revolutionary change, Clinton is a better bet, IMO.

 

[grokit]

There seems to be a war for control of the gop, between the koch bros (alec) and trump

And between those two I'll take trump.

edit: This is all pretty but it's real, and #5 is the scariest of all imo:

http://www.alternet.org/economy/ale...ost-anti-democratic-and-science-denying-ideas
and
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/11...-koch-brothers-congressional-republicans.html

 

[lwien]

Thank goodness Obama will be able to appoint someone else.

That would be an exercise in futility.

 

[cybrguy]

Bernie isn't selling a bogus bill of goods.

Bernie is making promises he can't keep. That is a bogus bill of goods. I'm not saying what he wants is bogus. What he wants is what we ALL (progressives) want. But he has absolutely no way to deliver it, and implying that he can is deceptive. And if people vote for him based on that deception, we will end up with a republican in the White House. And that serves none of us...

 

[Chill Dude]

@Gunky you may be correct that Clinton would be most likely to be able to implement incremental change quicker than achieving the revolutionary change that Bernie speaks of, but is that good enough for you? I mean right now with the conservative congress, it would be hard for any democratic president to accomplish much. My whole point is BIG change takes time! Society in general is becoming more liberal especially in regard to social issues. The milliniels are leaning further left than ever.. That said, don't you see the possibility of Democrats controlling the Senate and even the house in the not so distant future? And if that happens, yes I think It's possible for a true progressive President to push for radical change and social and economic justice!

 

[lwien]

Obama needs pull out his brass knuckles on this one --- if he has a set. Possibly THE single most important appointment of Obama's entire presidency would be to replace Scalia.

There is no way in hell that a Republican held Senate is going to approve anyone that he appoints.

It's going to be up to our next prez to do this.

Too bad he can't do this under an Executive Order, eh?

 

[Chill Dude]

Bernie is making promises he can't keep. That is a bogus bill of goods. I'm not saying what he wants is bogus. What he wants is what we ALL (progressives) want. But he has absolutely no way to deliver it, and implying that he can is deceptive. And if people vote for him based on that deception, we will end up with a republican in the White House. And that serves none of us...

How is Bernie deceiving anyone? He never promised being able to achieve his agenda immediately. But he did promise to fight like hell and achieve what he can in regards to common sense not so radical changes. People need to have patience. Big ideas take time and a grassroots campaign of change. What's so radical about social and economic justice?

 

[Gunky]

@Gunky you may be correct that Clinton would be most likely to be able to implement incremental change quicker than achieving the revolutionary change that Bernie speaks of, but is that good enough for you? I mean right now with the conservative congress, it would be hard for any democratic president to accomplish much. My whole point is BIG change takes time! Society in general is becoming more liberal especially in regard to social issues. The milliniels are leaning further left than ever.. That said, don't you see the possibility of Democrats controlling the Senate and even the house in the not so distant future? And if that happens, yes I think It's possible for a true progressive President to push for radical change and social and economic justice!

Well I kind of agree with you up to a point that we should aim high and all that. I fear that Bernie is ill-equipped to handle the actual - ie not very revolutionary - role he would inevitably play were he elected. He is great thumping podiums and making speeches, but how effective would he be as head of the executive branch under the constrained circs we know he is going to face? That is the job these two guys are applying for. When I look at it dispassionately and think about who might get results...

 

[cybrguy]

How is Bernie deceiving anyone?

Bernie is promising you a revolution. It's not gonna happen and after 30+ years in government he knows it isn't going to happen. So, if he is promising you something he knows you aren't gonna get, isn't that deception?

 

[lwien]

Tonights debate should be interesting, eh? Could get kinda nasty.

 

[Gunky]

Bernie is making promises he can't keep. That is a bogus bill of goods. I'm not saying what he wants is bogus. What he wants is what we ALL (progressives) want. But he has absolutely no way to deliver it, and implying that he can is deceptive. And if people vote for him based on that deception, we will end up with a republican in the White House. And that serves none of us...

I think it is not as bad as all that. He is advocating a direction and goals which are not very achievable at present. He is pretty vague in terms of what he actually expects to accomplish in his first term, for example. Strictly speaking he isn't promising much of anything. I agree it sounds great but recent experience suggests not much is achieveable in the way of big, radical change at this point.

 

[Chill Dude]

Bernie is promising you a revolution. It's not gonna happen and after 30+ years in government he knows it isn't going to happen. So, if he is promising you something he knows you aren't gonna get, isn't that deception?

He is promising a revolution, but not one that achieves his entire agenda immediately.. As I said previously, a revolution in politics takes years , not days.

 

[lwien]

a revolution in politics takes years....

In my opinion, in the US..........decades.

 

[grokit]

Americans can achieve anything, even a political revolution,
if enough of US are inspired enough to get behind their new president
The alternative seems to be trump vs. the koch bros buying our democracy one state at a time.

 

[cybrguy]

Tonights debate should be interesting, eh? Could get kinda nasty.

The heat is on, and they know this is for all the marbles. Trump is the last bully standing. I'm making popcorn...

Americans can achieve anything, even a political revolution,
if enough of US are inspired enough to get behind their new president

I don't disagree with this at all. I just don't think there are enough of us pulling in the same direction.

 

[Chill Dude]

In my opinion, in the US..........decades.

Perhaps, but does that mean you not try? Does that mean you don't vote with your core values? Does that mean you just give up, stay at home and say fuck it on Election Day?

 

[cybrguy]

Perhaps, but does that mean you not try? Does that mean you don't vote with your core values? Does that mean you just give up, stay at home and say fuck it on Election Day?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. And I, personally, will tilt at windmills all day long as long as doing so doesn't expose my balls to someone I know wants to crush them with a rock. I know better, my balls already hurt.

 

[Chill Dude]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. And I, personally, will tilt at windmills all day long as long as doing so doesn't expose my balls to someone I know wants to crush them with a rock. I know better, my balls already hurt.

May I be so bold as to inquire who'd you vote for should Sander's get the nomination?

 

[cybrguy]

I would probably vote for Sanders. If Bloomberg decided to enter the race I would have to think about it. There would be no way I would vote for any of the republicans.

If it looked like Bernie had been beaten to his knees, which is what I would expect to happen, I would likely vote for Bloomberg.

 

[Chill Dude]

I would probably vote for Sanders. If Bloomberg decided to enter the race I would have to think about it. There would be no way I would vote for any of the republicans.

If it looked like Bernie had been beaten to his knees, which is what I would expect to happen, I would likely vote for Bloomberg.

That makes sense then because you're obviously more of a moderate if you'd even consider Bloomberg.

 

[macbill]

I look forward to tonight's debate. Infighting is fun! Pass the popcorn...

 

[Farid]

Michael "Stop and Frisk" Bloomberg who thinks that only minorities should not be able to own guns... He's not popular enough to have any chance at winning, so your whole thing about not letting the Republicans win goes out the window there. Sanders might be in for a fight, but he's got a much greater chance than Bloomberg.

 

[cybrguy]

That makes sense then because you're obviously more of a moderate if you'd even consider Bloomberg.

I am definitely not on the far left, but I consider myself a liberal progressive. This is far from my first rodeo. This will the the 12th Presidential election I have voted in.

I have only voted for a republican once. I will vote for Bloomberg only if it becomes apparent that Bernie has been SO savaged for being a "democratic" socialist that he is sure to lose.

Hopefully Hillary will win the nod and this won't be an issue.