The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

grokit

well-worn member
I believe the 2016 news cycle will determine who we elect as the next "leader of the free world".

If the economy completely melts down/causes more bail-outs, sanders wins.
If assholes with guns ramp up the mowing down of innocent people, hillary wins.
But if these assholes are muslim, or we have "another 9/11", hellooo president trump.

Putting it in this perspective makes it hard to decide what to "root for".
:popcorn:
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Exactly what they were hoping to do with the "leaked" announcement.
I have no intention of voting for Bernie in the primary. If your assessment is correct he is trying to influence the primary and has not in my regard.

And he could only influence my vote in the general by running and he will only do that if he thinks he can win, and he can't against Hillary and knows it.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
I believe the 2016 news cycle will determine who we elect as the next "leader of the free world".
But if these assholes are muslim, or we have "another 9/11", hello president trump.
:popcorn:
Could Trump be the push & prod that ISIS wants to provoke their Jihad? Will heinous terrorist acts escalate exponentially to bring Trump's finger closer to the nuclear button, as well as their own? Who will push the BIG button first? So far I've not seen a significant increase in ISIS related incidents, but as we grow closer to election, maybe, as you suggest, they will dominate the news cycle with an exponential escalation of terrorist acts and usher in a President Trump, IDK.
 

howie105

Well-Known Member
I've seen the phrase/sentiment that 'I wouldn't vote for so and so unless they could win' a few times. I myself have lamented having to vote for someone who could win versus the person I would most want to win.

I get that when the smoke clears and the primary is over that someone might vote along party lines and might vote for the candidate they didn't prefer during the primary.

Everyone has the right to vote the way they see fit whether it's a primary or the general election but I can't help but wonder ...... are we being true to ourselves if we vote for who can win instead of who you want to win?....at least during the primary?

Edit...easy for me to ask since I'm independent :o


The life of a political independent can be full of introspection, thought, conflict and sometimes doubt but you always get an amusing perspective.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Everyone has the right to vote the way they see fit whether it's a primary or the general election but I can't help but wonder ...... are we being true to ourselves if we vote for who can win instead of who you want to win?....at least during the primary?
I am a lot less concerned about whether I am "true to myself" than I am about the prospect of a President Cruz or a President Trump. I will do almost ANYTHING I can to prevent that eventuality. That easily includes voting for someone other than my first choice. No sweat.
 

grokit

well-worn member
I'm thinking that ISIS will bring in the dirty bombs in executive-looking briefcases.
Time to build trump's taj ma-wall ;)

611266d0547ac9d348c9b94d6336d4cd.jpg

:bang:
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
January 24, 2016 4:00 PM
Cruz (Out of) Control

Wingnut World is freaking out over a new video by Peter Sinclair of the Yale Project on Climate Change Communication that points out the duplicity of Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz’s assertion that global warming somehow stopped in the late-1990s:
After watching the video, you can’t help wondering whether Texas voters feel any embarrassment about sending a shameless liar like Cruz to the United States Senate. Then again, you can say the same for the folks who are showing up to Donald Trump rallies, the folks delusional enough to think the bigoted billionaire knows a damn thing about “making America great again.”

What attracts somebody to a con like Ted or Don? I can’t help going back to those old articles about Americans addicted to right-wing media. If your cognitive abilities have been compromised by the filth of Fox and the lies of Limbaugh, you’ll believe “anything…except the truth,” as Janeane Garofalo observed in 2009.

A civilization simply cannot survive if large portions of that civilization have declared war on facts. When you think of the legions of Americans who truly believe that either Trump or Cruz are fit to be the forty-fifth president of the United States, don’t you wonder if something has gone deeply wrong in American society?

There was a fascinating exchange on the January 15 edition of HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher in which Maher, interviewing former Vice President Al Gore, suggested that religion was the main driver of anti-science sentiment in the United States. In response, Gore suggested that religion and science can coexist, citing Pope Francis’s 2015 encyclical Laudato Si. We can dispute who’s right—but we cannot dispute the fact that Trump and Cruz have become de facto deities in the eyes of far too many Americans.

The rise of Cruz and Trump proves that President Obama was very, very wrong a dozen years ago when he declared, “There’s not a liberal America and a conservative America—there’s the United States of America.” As much as we wish it weren’t the case, there are indeed two Americas—one that embraces science and one that lies about it, one that welcomes immigrants and one that wants those immigrants to go back to where they came from, one that wants to move forward and one that is backward. Those are facts—and like the evidence of human-caused climate change, we ignore those facts at our peril.

UPDATE: More from Peter Sinclair, Dana Nuccitelli, David Appell and Benjamin Santer and Carl Mears.
SECOND UPDATE: More from Peter Sinclair, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, the AP and Eric Boehlert.
THIRD UPDATE: More from Media Matters, the Young Turks and Kevin Drum.
FOURTH UPDATE: More from Peter Sinclair and Media Matters.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Yeah but it'll be the best wall ever built, in the history of all walls.

greatwalloftrump.jpg

:razz:
Yeah, but will there be gold-plated ice cold water fountains at all the guard posts? I want my tax dollars spent well! And what about all the airline, coastline marine, and Canadian border entry points? Let's not forget the ever-present subliminal Manchurian media entry points hypnotizing the sleeping dreaming populace...
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
I think what really scares republicans is the thought that their choice may boil down to Cruz or Trump (which Lindsay Graham called bullet or poison). Mittens got something like 59% of the white vote and still lost; does anyone really believe either Cruz, who has extremely radical views and is a very nasty person, or bigot, xenophobe and misogynist Trump is going to do better? Either one will end up like Goldwater or McGovern and probably do considerable damage to republican House and Senate majorities. The party has been encouraging all sorts of craziness for years and now the worm has turned. The republican party is imploding. Party bigwigs are so scared of Cruz they are now suggesting this shitty racist demagogue Trump might be ok! Can you believe it? Meanwhile what passes for intelligentsia among republicans have all banded together to condemn Trump in the National Review. They are so fucked!
 
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grokit

well-worn member
:razz: Free ice cream!
Win a Limited Edition Bernie’s Yearning Ice Cream Pint


4ec1ab_c026b62a5a5347468a6823d64e36ad3c.jpg
4ec1ab_4fdbf9844bb54d6fac9b90dbbd65dd10.jpg

:drool:

Artists and cultural leaders from Killer Mike to Danny DeVito are banding together to endorse Bernie Sanders. While Killer Mike showed his support by interviewing Bernie in an Atlanta barber shop, and DeVito publicly compared Sanders to Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ben Cohen (of Ben & Jerry’s fame) is #feelingthebern in his own sweet, sweet way.

Cohen, the co-founder and former CEO of Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream, whipped up a limited-edition batch of Bernie Sanders ice cream at home in his kitchen in Vermont. He made a total of 40 pints of Bernie’s Yearning, 25 of which he donated to Sander’s campaign.

While you can’t pick up a pint at your local grocery store, you can enter to win one of the 25 pints—all of which are autographed by Cohen—on berniesyearning.com.

The politically charged flavor features “a thick disk of solid chocolate” covering the top of plain mint ice cream. On the back of the pint, it explains that the chocolate disc represents “the huge majority of economic gains that have gone to the top 1% since the end of the recession. Beneath it, the rest of us.”

An ice cream that sums up what’s fundamentally wrong in this country? Sounds delicious.

And here are instructions for eating, according to Cohen: “You take your spoon and you whack that big chocolate disc into little pieces and mix it around,” he told New York Daily News. Get it? The action is representative of spreading the wealth and bridging the gap between rich and poor. “There you have it, Bernie’s Yearning.”

CLTB1_RUYAACRUG.png


CLSy-WfUMAAq2HQ.jpg


:rockon:
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
The differences between Obama and Sanders matter

01/25/16 04:34 PM

Paul Krugman noted the other day that there’s a “mini-dispute among Democrats” over who has the best claim to President Obama’s mantle: Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. The New York Times columnist made the persuasive case that the answer is obvious: “Mr. Sanders is the heir to candidate Obama, but Mrs. Clinton is the heir to President Obama.”

The framing is compelling for reasons that are probably obvious. As a candidate, Obama was the upstart outsider taking on a powerful rival – named Hillary Clinton – who was widely expected to prevail. As president, Obama has learned to temper some of his grander ambitions, confront the cold realities of governing in prose, and make incremental-but-historic gains through attrition and by navigating past bureaucratic choke points.

But the closer one looks at the Obama-Sanders parallels, the more they start to disappear.

Comparing the core messages, for example, reinforces the differences. In 2008, Obama’s pitch was rooted in hopeful optimism, while in 2016, Sanders’ message is based on a foundation of outrage. In 2008, red-state Democrats welcomed an Obama nomination – many in the party saw him as having far broader appeal in conservative areas than Clinton – while in 2016, red-state Democrats appear panicked by the very idea of a Sanders nomination.

At its root, however, is a realism-vs-pragmatism debate, with Sanders claiming the former to Clinton’s latter. New York’s Jon Chait argues that this kind of framing misunderstands what Candidate Obama was offering eight years ago.
The young Barack Obama was already famous for his soaring rhetoric, but from today’s perspective, what is striking about his promises is less their idealism than their careful modulation.​
What Obama did eight years ago, Chait added, was make his technocratic pragmatism “lyrical” – a feat Clinton won’t even try to pull off – promising incremental changes in inspirational ways.

That’s not Sanders’ pitch at all. In many respects, it’s the opposite. Whatever your opinion of the Vermonter, there’s nothing about his platform that’s incremental. The independent senator doesn’t talk about common ground and bipartisan cooperation; he envisions a political “revolution” that changes the very nature of the political process.

The president himself seems well aware of the differences between what Greg Sargent calls the competing “theories of change.” Obama had a fascinating conversation late last week with Politico’s Glenn Thrush, and while the two covered quite a bit of ground, this exchange is generating quite a bit of attention for good reason.

THRUSH: The events I was at in Iowa, the candidate who seems to be delivering that now is Bernie Sanders.

OBAMA: Yeah.

THRUSH: I mean, when you watch this, what do you – do you see any elements of what you were able to accomplish in what Sanders is doing?

OBAMA: Well, there’s no doubt that Bernie has tapped into a running thread in Democratic politics that says: Why are we still constrained by the terms of the debate that were set by Ronald Reagan 30 years ago? You know, why is it that we should be scared to challenge conventional wisdom and talk bluntly about inequality and, you know, be full-throated in our progressivism? And, you know, that has an appeal and I understand that.

I think that what Hillary presents is a recognition that translating values into governance and delivering the goods is ultimately the job of politics, making a real-life difference to people in their day-to-day lives. I don’t want to exaggerate those differences, though, because Hillary is really idealistic and progressive. You’d have to be to be in, you know, the position she’s in now, having fought all the battles she’s fought and, you know, taken so many, you know, slings and arrows from the other side. And Bernie, you know, is somebody who was a senator and served on the Veterans’ Committee and got bills done. And so the–

THRUSH: But it sounds like you’re not buying the – you’re not buying the sort of, the easy popular dichotomy people are talking about, where he’s an analog for you and she is herself?

OBAMA: No. No.

THRUSH: You don’t buy that, right?

OBAMA: No, I don’t think – I don’t think that’s true.
The electoral salience of comments like these remains to be seen, but the president is subtly taking an important shot at the rationale of Sanders’ candidacy. For any Democratic voters watching the presidential primary unfold, looking at Sanders as the rightful heir to the “change” mantle, here’s Obama effectively saying he and Sanders believe in very different kinds of governing, based on incompatible models of achieving meaningful results.
 

grokit

well-worn member
Bill lobs a softball, Bernie hits it out of the park:goon:!

Morning Joe 1/25/16 Duration: 6:26
The Morning Joe panel discusses the weekend in Democratic 2016 news.

Joe: Bernie's message clear; Hillary's is jumbled
Top Talkers: Bernie Sanders is leading in Iowa by a narrow margin, but he maintains a wide lead in N.H., according to the latest CBS News/YouGov poll.

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/joe-bernie-s-message-clear-hillary-s-is-jumbled-608209475785

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/


:sherlock:
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I think it's fucking hilarious, and I just fucking love it. If only they would indict Trey Gowdy and Darrel Issa along the same lines of fraud and wasting taxpayers money on witch hunts.

Especially Issa. Unfortunately Issa was clever enough not to generate fake IDs and documents. At least that have been found...

Edit: correct spelling indict
 
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His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Huh? Nobody commented yet on last night's CNN debates?!?!? You guys are slipping :cool:

I'll start it off then.....

I thought each participant did a fantastic job. Maybe even better than prior debates but then again the format may have had more to do with that.

If I had to rate them from a best to worst standpoint:
- Hillary: She was personable, impressively knowledgeable and had some pretty good impromptu responses which showed how quick she can think on her feet. IMO best performance to date.
- Bernie: Drove home his positions relentlessly....letting the chips fall where they may sometimes. I still like many of his positions, clarity may not be his best friend though and maybe he should lighten up a little.
- O'Malley: Great job! Best yet. Sometimes I felt he was too practiced but the passion came through more for me. I would have no problem voting for him and while I think he came in third place.....I think he would kick the crap out of whatever the republican candidate brought to the table if he were to win the primary......which at this point does not look likely.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
uh? Nobody commented yet on last night's CNN debates?!?!?

IMHO, Bernie won it.

I think it's fucking hilarious, and I just fucking love it. If only they would indite Trey Gowdy and Darrel Issa along the same lines of fraud and wasting taxpayers money on witch hunts.

Especially Issa. Unfortunately Issa was clever enough not to generate fake IDs and documents. At least that have been found...

I remember working with Issa when he owned Directed Electronics, maker of Viper Alarms (car alarm manufacturer). He was an asshole back then as well.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Anti-Sanders attack ad isn’t quite what it seems to be

01/26/16 09:20 AM

By Steve Benen
Republicans have made no secret of the fact that they’d prefer to run against Bernie Sanders in the general election. Whether or not their assumptions are correct is a separate question, but GOP officials, convinced that the senator would be easy to defeat, have gone out of their way to help Sanders in the Democratic race.

It’s what made this New York Times report stand out as noteworthy.
A “super PAC” founded by the former TD Ameritrade executive Joe Ricketts is spending more than $600,000 on a television ad in Iowa lashing Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont as “too liberal” in the final days of his close race against Hillary Clinton in the state’s caucuses. […]

The spot is expected to be backed by $600,000 in spending on television ads, and there will be additional expenditures on radio and digital advertising.​
At first blush, the move may seem encouraging to Sanders supporters. After all, if Republicans have gone from defending Sanders to attacking him, maybe it means GOP insiders are getting scared of the Vermont independent?

It’s a nice idea, but that’s not what’s going on here. In fact, far from an attack ad, this commercial, backed by a prominent Republican mega-donor, is the latest evidence of the GOP trying to help Sanders, not hurt him.

Indeed, in this case, it’s hardly even subtle. This commercial touts Sanders’ support for tuition-free college, single-payer health care, and higher taxes on the “super-rich.” It concludes that the senator is “too liberal,” which isn’t much of an insult in an ad directed towards liberal voters in Iowa.

In other words, we’re talking about a Republican mega-donor investing in a faux attack ad to help Sanders win because he sees Sanders as easy to beat in November.

It’s the mirror image of the tactic Sen. Claire McCaskill (D) used in the 2012 U.S. Senate race in Missouri, when she invested in ads intended to boost then-Rep. Todd Akin (R) in his primary race, with commercials touting his far-right positions and calling him “too conservative.” The point was to make Akin look better in the eyes of Missouri Republicans so he’d win the primary, making it easier for the incumbent Democrat to defeat him on Election Day.

It worked beautifully. Akin won the primary and then McCaskill won the election by over 15 points.

Ricketts’ super PAC is running the same play from the same playbook. McCaskill herself called it out overnight, saying on Twitter, “I see you Joe Ricketts. And I know exactly what you’re up to. #ToddAkin Don’t fall for it Iowa Dems.”

Whether Democratic voters care that Republicans are desperate to help Sanders is unclear; many Dems may simply conclude that the GOP is wrong about the senator’s national prospects. But the existence of a Republican campaign to boost the Vermonter is no longer in doubt.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Huh? Nobody commented yet on last night's CNN debates?!?!? You guys are slipping :cool:
IMHO, Bernie won it.
All the candidates did well as there was little push back. I think it was pretty much a Rorschach test. If you are a Bernie fan you will think Bernie won, a Hillary fan you will think Hillary won. I don't know about O'Malley (I don't know any O'Malley fans) but I suspect the same.

Clearly I am a Hillary fan, but it looked really obvious to me that Bernie is great is his wheelhouse talking about wall street and our terribly unfair distribution of wealth, but just doesn't have command of the rest of the job. And I have NO IDEA why he seems to think that he can get any of his revolutionary agenda through congress. Its not gonna happen short of completely Democratic government in all 3 branches.

The POTUS cannot be a one trick pony, there is too much required of the job.

And Bernie is calling for a revolution. I don't disagree that America needs some revolutionary change, but I know that America is NOT prepared to manage all that change at once. It HAS to be incremental or it won't happen. And Bernie doesn't have time to wait...
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
All the candidates did well as there was little push back. I think it was pretty much a Rorschach test. If you are a Bernie fan you will think Bernie won, a Hillary fan you will think Hillary won.

Gotta disagree a little here - I was leaning toward Bernie but still felt Hillary did a bit better. This debate caused me to climb back on the fence and boy is that barb wire starting to hurt.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
All the candidates did well as there was little push back. I think it was pretty much a Rorschach test. If you are a Bernie fan you will think Bernie won, a Hillary fan you will think Hillary won. I don't know about O'Malley (I don't know any O'Malley fans) but I suspect the same.

I'm a Hillary fan but I still think Bernie won it. Just came as as more succinct and more sincere.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Personally I thought it was one of Hillary's best events. I thought it pretty clearly showed why she is better qualified. Bernie did nothing wrong, he just doesn't have wide enough command on what is required of the job. For me. Hillary does. And Hillary's not coming from the far left edge makes it easier for people right of middle to cooperate with her and her ideas.

This isn't going to be easy for anyone. Our country is sorely divided. But it is a lot easier to progress if we can come together somewhat instead of standing at the extremes firing at the middle. The republican idea that we are better to have no functioning government than one that compromises to make progress must be defeated or we merely hover in place or go backwards. That serves no one.
 
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