The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[cybrguy]

The missing piece from the GOP’s anti-Obama pitch on guns
01/06/16 08:42 AM—Updated 01/06/16 08:44 AM

By Steve Benen
In his remarks yesterday on addressing gun violence, President Obama tried his best to lower the rhetorical temperature. “I’m not on the ballot again; I’m not looking to score some points,” he said. “I think we can disagree without impugning other people’s motives or without being disagreeable. We don’t need to be talking past one another.”

It was right around that time that Ted Cruz’s presidential campaign posted an “OBAMA WANTS YOUR GUNS” message online, alongside a fake image of the president in a military helmet, which appeared to be designed to resemble a Nazi propaganda poster from World War II.

So much for disagreeing without impugning other people’s motives.

Obviously, Cruz wasn’t alone. Even before the president spoke, Republican presidential candidates were apoplectic about Obama making modest, incremental changes to current law, which even the NRA concedes would have little practical effect.

Away from the campaign trail, congressional Republicans began making threats about blocking the White House’s policy.

Leading Republicans on the House Appropriations Committee and from the party’s conservative wing vowed to use the appropriations process to block Obama’s executive actions and deny the president the necessary funding to implement some of his proposals.

“What the president has done is unconstitutional and any action Congress can take, we should, including appropriations,” said Rep. Ken Buck (R-Colo.) a member of the House’s Freedom Caucus.

Before the administration’s policy was even announced, one GOP lawmaker raised the specter of shutting down the Justice Department over gun policy.

There was, however, one missing element in the Republican’s pushback.
At no point yesterday did any Republican candidates or lawmakers point to anything specific in the president’s policy that they found objectionable. Not one measure, not one idea, not one initiative, not one paragraph, nothing.

Marco Rubio said Obama’s approach “undermines” the Second Amendment, but he didn’t (and couldn’t) say how. Carly Fiorina said the president’s incremental changes to implementing current law are “lawless,” but she offered nothing in the way of substantiation.

This isn’t just about pointing and laughing at the inanity of criticisms so painfully foolish that Republican voters ought to feel insulted. It’s not even about the degree to which yesterday helped prove why policy debates are effectively impossible in D.C. right now.
Rather, the broader point here is that Republicans have abandoned the pretense of seriousness. The dirty little secret, which went largely unmentioned yesterday, is that GOP officials simply couldn’t find any specific problems with the White House’s plan, so they screamed bloody murder just for the sake of doing so.

The lobbying arm of the National Rifle Association, for crying out loud, was willing to say on the record in reference to Obama and his team, “They’re not really doing anything.”

Republicans understood this, but they had to break with the NRA, go through the motions, and throw a tantrum anyway, because in their minds, that’s what the political circumstances require.

It was a rather pathetic spectacle, even by contemporary standards, on an issue of great national significance. Republicans didn’t spend the day outraged; they spent the day lying. The difference matters.

 

[grokit]

The Donald loses his campaign soundtrack to a hippie from Vermont

Unsurprisingly, Donald Trump’s presidential campaign kicked off like the joke that it is. The billionaire reality TV mogul came out in front of a crowd of partially paid supporters to Neil Young’s “Rockin’ in the Free World” (and while riding down on an escalator, no less). Beyond the fact that the song is actually a critique of Republican George H. W. Bush’s presidency and the social policies that lead to income inequality, Trump’s use of the song was inappropriate because Young never gave him permission.

Young said in a statement that Trump “was not authorized to use ‘Rockin’ in the Free World’ in his presidential candidacy announcement.” The statement added that, “Neil Young, a Canadian citizen, is a supporter of Bernie Sanders for President of the United States of America.”

Trump’s camp claimed they paid both ASCAP and BMI for rights to the song, but would cease from using it out of respect to Young. The singer, meanwhile, out of respect to his own political beliefs, has turned around and given Trump’s opponent Sanders permission to use “Rockin’ in the Free World”.

Sanders, the Democratic candidate from Vermont, walked out to the track at a rally in Denver attended by an overflow audience of 4,500 people. Folks were reportedly standing in the atrium and lacrosse fields outside the auditorium to hear Sanders speak; as far as we know, none of them were paid to be there.

Watch footage of Sanders’ “Rockin’ in the Free World”-aided entrance below (scroll to the 5:00 mark).

 

[Stu]

Watch footage of Sanders’ “Rockin’ in the Free World”-aided entrance below (scroll to the 5:00 mark).

 

[CarolKing]

• Rose Hamid, a 56-year-old flight attendant, stood up during Donald Trump's rally
• She was silently protesting his anti-Muslim rhetoric

Rock Hill, South Carolina (CNN)A Muslim woman wearing a hijab was escorted out of Donald Trump's campaign event on Friday by police after she stood up in silent protest during Trump's speech.

Rose Hamid, a 56-year-old flight attendant sitting in the stands directly behind Trump, stood up Friday during Trump's speech when the Republican front-runner suggested that Syrian refugees fleeing war in Syria were affiliated with ISIS.

Trump has previously called for a temporary ban on Muslims entering the U.S.

Despite her silence, Trump supporters around her began chanting Trump's name -- as instructed by Trump campaign staff before the event in case of protests -- and pointed at Hamid and Marty Rosenbluth, the man alongside her who stood up as well.

As they were escorted out, Trump supporters roared -- booing the pair and shouting at them to "get out." One person shouted, "You have a bomb, you have a bomb," according to Hamid.

"The ugliness really came out fast and that's really scary," Hamid told CNN in a phone interview after she was ejected.

Major Steven Thompson of the Rock Hill Police Department told CNN Hamid was kicked out of the event because the campaign told him beforehand that "anybody who made any kind of disturbance" should be escorted out.


I'm going to lose faith in the American people if they vote this hate munger into office. I will have to move to Canada. It was probably for the woman's safety to have her removed. I would be worried someone would hurt her. It's so disappointing when I see people acting like this.

 

[lwien]

Here is an interview from her after she was kicked out:

 

[cybrguy]

Very impressive woman. People like her on both sides are our only chance to fix this. It CAN happen, but it WONT happen on its own...

Donald Trump needs to be shown as the narcissistic asshole that he is. People need to understand that he cares very little, if at all, about them. He can't be allowed to lie with impunity, because he does it at such a volume that it is difficult to shout him down. But we HAVE to try. If we don't it could all go negative in ways we haven't seen...

It IS up to us, folks. This is becoming the status quo, and we can't let that happen.

 

[CarolKing]

I know Bill Clinton made mistakes but I love him anyway, with all his faults. This was from 5 days ago.

The strategy is simple and beautiful. Instead of mocking Donald Trump, Bill Clinton is warning America to take him seriously because the Republican frontrunner is saying what he really believes. The warning that Trump will try to do everything that he is campaigning on such as building a wall on the US southern border and banning Muslims from entering the country highlights Trump’s extremism.


The second part of Bill Clinton’s statement that voters also have to examine whether or not Trump has any chance of doing what he wants to do was a logical deconstruction of Trump’s credibility as a candidate. What Clinton was suggesting is that Donald Trump should be taken seriously, but he has no chance of accomplishing the things that he claims he wants to do if he gets elected.


In other words, Clinton isn’t going to directly give Trump the attention that he craves, but he is also not to going interfere with self-destruction that is unfolding within the Republican primary.

Former president Clinton’s comments were the first hints of how the Clinton campaign will handle Trump if he is the Republican nominee. They see where Trump’s weakness is. Behind the bluster is an empty candidate with no realistic chance of being successful.

 

[Snappo]

Trump presents a very real threat because the majority of our population operates on a soap opera mentality blind to all but the actors bold enough to hog center stage and promise the universe - all that glitters is gold. Facebook and cable tv are the opiate delivery systems that will ultimately succeed in doping down the masses to their knees and at the feet of the exalted horned one.

 

[grokit]

Donald Trump needs to be shown as the narcissistic asshole that he is. People need to understand that he cares very little, if at all, about them.

How's this (for starters):

Trump Orders Security To Toss Sanders Supporters Into The Cold And Take Their Coats – Video

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump ordered his security team to evict a group of Bernie Sanders supporters from a Thursday night rally in Vermont.

He also ordered them to confiscate their coats, forcing them to endure below-freezing temperatures.

Trump told security “throw them into the cold,” as the protesters chanted “Bernie, Bernie, Bernie!”

“Don’t give them their coats,” Trump continued, adding: “No coats! Confiscate their coats.”

“It’s about 10 degrees below zero outside. … You can keep his coat; tell him we’ll send it to him in a couple of weeks,” Trump continued.

The Hill reports that “The Sanders supporters had planned to infiltrate the Trump rally, but many were thwarted as Trump security screened attendees and ejected those who didn’t declare allegiance to the billionaire.”

You can watch Trump’s disgraceful behavior in the clip, below:

 

[cybrguy]

I'm sure they didn't really keep their coats. This is typical Trump sound like a tough guy bullshit. I'm quite sure if he ever got mugged he would shit his pants.

 

[gangababa]

 

[cybrguy]

FIRE!

 

[grokit]

I'm sure they didn't really keep their coats. This is typical Trump sound like a tough guy bullshit. I'm quite sure if he ever got mugged he would shit his pants.

Perhaps his security staff didn't follow his orders, but those were his instructions.

More importantly, who's going to reign in his supporters?

He described it as "unlike any political event I've ever seen," and he and others captured a number of incidents on video. Around 10 minutes into the event, an African-American protester began shouting and disrupting the speech. He was quickly engaged physically by Trump's security personnel. As they forced him to the ground, a woman shouted, "Let him get up!" Meanwhile, a man can be heard saying, "Light the motherfucker on fire."

Are there any queers in the theatre tonight?
Get 'em up against the wall.
And that one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me.
Get him up against the wall.
And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a coon.
Who let all this riffraff into the room?
There's one smoking a joint, and another with spots!
If I had my way I'd have all of you shot!

 

[cybrguy]

Well, that's really the problem it seems to me. It isn't really Trump himself so much as what he does to/with his supporters. Like Sarah Palin did. He gets them all jazzed up and they do stupid thing. He takes away the societal superego that suppresses the nastiest of impulses that people have. The ones that we usually keep under control or at least under wraps by our social agreement. If he, as a candidate for the highest office in the land, isn't expected to keep those social compacts agreed on by polite society, why should they? He is the ultimate permission giver, changing the rules of conduct to something more base and gut level and less constrained. It can be pretty shocking to folks used to playing by the rules or "doing the right thing". It can't be a good direction for the country.

 

[howie105]

I don't know what is worse not being able to see our own faults in others or seeing them and not caring.

 

[Snappo]

I don't know what is worse not being able to see our own faults in others or seeing them and not caring.

While in a glass house we all throw stones, no exceptions. Many of us emulate the proverbial bull in a china shop, now and then, few exceptions. I am aware of only one "bullish" candidate who leaves large sharp shards of shattered glass in the wake of every step he takes, irrespective of venue. I am also aware of only one or two candidates who tread rather carefully as if to walk on rice paper.

 

[gangababa]

The Bhagavad Gita total pegs Trump in chapter 16, Krishna's descriptions of 'becoming' (daivic-godly) and 'unbecoming' (asuric-demonic) dispositions (human persona).

"Those who are totally deluded due to lack of discrimination say, 'I have
wealth. I was born in a very good family. Who else is there who is equal
to me? I will act for my benefit. I will give (for my glory). I will enjoy." (15)

"Those who are self-glorifying, vain (conceited), filled with pride and
arrogance because of their wealth, perform actions that are proper in name
only, acting not according to ethics (but) out of self-promotion." (17)

Trump supporters (trump-pets) are called out as asuras (not nice) in verse 7

"People who have qualities belonging to the asuras do not know what is
Proper to do and what is to be withdrawn from. There is neither inner
purity nor proper conduct, nor truthfulness in them."(7)

 

[howie105]

While in a glass house we all throw stones, no exceptions. Many of us emulate the proverbial bull in a china shop, now and then, few exceptions. I am aware of only one "bullish" candidate who leaves large sharp shards of shattered glass in the wake of every step he takes, irrespective of venue. I am also aware of only one or two candidates who tread rather carefully as if to walk on rice paper.

My concern in this case is not the candidates (different kettle of fish) because they can be trusted to always play to their base regardless of party. I am just amazed by what some of their supporters are willing to call for in response to the opposition, like loss of their right to vote, freedom to express an opposing view and even expulsion from the country. If this sort of insanity was just coming from one party I could accept it as a failed political belief structure but it doesn’t it comes from both parties. What that says about citizens in both parties is pretty sad.

 

[cybrguy]

My concern in this case is not the candidates (different kettle of fish) because they can be trusted to always play to their base regardless of party. I am just amazed by what some of their supporters are willing to call for in response to the opposition, like loss of their right to vote, freedom to express an opposing view and even expulsion from the country. If this sort of insanity was just coming from one party I could accept it as a failed political belief structure but it doesn’t it comes from both parties. What that says about citizens in both parties is pretty sad.

I left this here for a long time hoping that someone else would reply to it so I could be comfortable that other people see the truth. So much for that idea.

So, there is only one problem with your point. It is complete bullshit, of course, and is a reflection of people internalizing the media's ridiculous fear of appearing to have a bias that results in them constantly putting forward a false equivalency claim that does nothing but obscure the truth. BOTH PARTIES DO NOT DO IT!!! There is ONLY ONE PARTY trying to keep people from voting. There is ONLY ONE PARTY trying to keep people from speaking out. There is ONLY ONE PARTY saying that people from particular countries or who follow certain religions shouldn't be allowed to come here or should be thrown out in mass if they have succeeded in doing so.

Only ONE PARTY holds these beliefs. Only ONE PARTY violently eject people with different views from their rallies and encourages the crowd to abuse them. Only ONE PARTY wants to turn away millions running for their lives. Only ONE PARTY is willing to accept a candidate for the highest office in the land who is an OPEN BIGOT, who PROMOTES INGNORENCE and INTOLERENCE, and who suggests that if you don't agree with him THERE IS NO PLACE FOR YOU HERE! Only ONE PARTY.

This is not a hard concept to follow. The parties are NOT THE SAME and they PROMOTE DIFFERENT VALUES AND DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES. They are as similar as dogs and cats.

ONLY ONE PARTY promotes the positions you described, and in case you have missed the point, it is NOT THE DEMOCRATS!

 

[Farid]

I know some very good people who are conservative, who feel that the Republican party does not represent them. Just as I know tons of great people who are liberal who feel they are not represented by the Democratic party. I think that the party divide is what has allowed Trump to be successful, and it sickens me. That said, I think that carte blanche statements vilifying conservatives by the other side is ammunition for Trump to feed his supporters, just as the threat of Trump in the white house is use by Clinton as a scare tactic.

 

[Snappo]

I left this here for a long time hoping that someone else would reply to it so I could be comfortable that other people see the truth. So much for that idea.

So, there is only one problem with your point. It is complete bullshit, of course, and is a reflection of people internalizing the media's ridiculous fear of appearing to have a bias that results in them constantly putting forward a false equivalency claim that does nothing but obscure the truth. BOTH PARTIES DO NOT DO IT!!! There is ONLY ONE PARTY trying to keep people from voting. There is ONLY ONE PARTY trying to keep people from speaking out. There is ONLY ONE PARTY saying that people from particular countries or who follow certain religions shouldn't be allowed to come here or should be thrown out in mass if they have succeeded in doing so.

Only ONE PARTY holds these beliefs. Only ONE PARTY violently eject people with different views from their rallies and encourages the crowd to abuse them. Only ONE PARTY wants to turn away millions running for their lives. Only ONE PARTY is willing to accept a candidate for the highest office in the land who is an OPEN BIGOT, who PROMOTES INGNORENCE and INTOLERENCE, and who suggests that if you don't agree with him THERE IS NO PLACE FOR YOU HERE! Only ONE PARTY.

This is not a hard concept to follow. The parties are NOT THE SAME and they PROMOTE DIFFERENT VALUES AND DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES. They are as similar as dogs and cats.

ONLY ONE PARTY promotes the positions you described, and in case you have missed the point, it is NOT THE DEMOCRATS!

I'm not seeing one party espousing all those despicable attributes, but I am seeing one candidate of a particular party doing that. And I tend to believe that the other candidates who share in that party don't want to be associated in any way with The One, and are embarrassed to share the debate stage with him.

 

[cybrguy]

Right, because all the other republican candidates have come out to say they are FOR immigration reform, and ALLOWING in Syrian refugees, promoting background checks, and supporting gay marriage, and eliminating voting restrictions. I must have just missed it.

If you think Donald Trump is the only problem with todays republican party you aren't paying much attention, it seems to me.

 

[lwien]

I'm not seeing one party espousing all those despicable attributes, but I am seeing one candidate of a particular party doing that.

But according to the polls, the majority of Republicans are aligned with him, no?

 

[CarolKing]

According to the polls (if you believe polls) Trump has like 37% of the republican support. That's a long way from winning the republican endorsement. I'm still hoping Trump will say something sooooo outlandish and stupid most republicans will turn away. I hope that's possible.

I don't like Ted Cruz but he would be better than Trump. I'm not a republican. I vote democrat so I will vote for whoever is the democrat's candidate. I'm not always happy with my choices that I have. I didn't like Al Gore but I voted for him anyway. What a different world we would be living in if he had gotten elected instead of Gorge Bush.

I like Bernie Sanders but he isn't doing very well. He is a little old and maybe would only be able to complete one term

I would be happy if they would do away with the electoral college.

The Republican Party has splintered. You have the Tea Party nut cases which are the Sarah Palin admirers and the regular republicans.

Edit
If Hillary wins all we will hear from the Republicans is all about Benghazi and Bill Clinton's infidelities. They are such poor losers. Remember when Bill was president all we heard about was all the women he had been with from the other party. Get to the damn issues. They forget how well the economy was back then.

Donald Trump doesn't really have any plans other than building a wall and blowing up ISIS. Every other day for him is a different person to attack. One day it's Bill Clinton the next day is Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz.

This bullshit about Ted Cruz not being an American citizen is so stupid. That shows that Trump doesn't have any substance. Those that are following him are too crazy or stupid to understand that.

 

[Snappo]

@cybrguy - I hope we can share differing viewpoints without being disparaging with our remarks.