The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread
- Thread starter CarolKing
- Start date
KimDracula
Well-Known Member
Why does it make you feel better to write in a vote for Sanders and yet silently hope for a Clinton win grokit?
I wasn't assuming anything about you, yogoshio. I'm expressing my viewpoint just like you.
I wasn't assuming anything about you, yogoshio. I'm expressing my viewpoint just like you.
grokit
well-worn member
That's my conundrum. But it's really not, as neither vote will count for jackshit in my state.
HighSeasSailor
Well-Known Member
My only comment is that the fact that this is still a close race is as much indictment of Hillary Clinton as anything. Donald Trump is the most virulently hated person to run for high office in recent memory, maybe in my lifetime, and yet it's still not certain that she will defeat him. I can scarcely imagine how even a devoted Democrat could defend a candidate that is failing so badly against such an incredibly easy opponent. Think about what a profound fuckup Hillary truly is, to be a professional politician barely keeping her head above water against someone with zero political experience whose previous career was/is a comically shady businessman and reality TV show star. She's running against a cross between Lex Luthor and Jerry Springer, and yet her lead is within the margin of statistical error!
Bernie Sanders is a socialist, a word that's practically anathema in American politics, and yet it's almost undeniable that he'd win this election by the widest margin since Reagan if he were running, on the simple basis of the fact that he looks like a man who has cooked his own dinner and pressed his own tie at least once in his life and doesn't have a long history of shady backroom dealings and public scandals, nor a tendency to say moronic things on the record that generalize whole groups of people.
She even managed to validate Trump's conspiracy theory rantings, so that now she's succeeded in making Trump look credible in the eyes of many Americans, something not even his own paid staff could accomplish.
2016: The year both candidates' platform is "Hey at least I'm not THAT asshole!" and both of them have a point.
Bernie Sanders is a socialist, a word that's practically anathema in American politics, and yet it's almost undeniable that he'd win this election by the widest margin since Reagan if he were running, on the simple basis of the fact that he looks like a man who has cooked his own dinner and pressed his own tie at least once in his life and doesn't have a long history of shady backroom dealings and public scandals, nor a tendency to say moronic things on the record that generalize whole groups of people.
She even managed to validate Trump's conspiracy theory rantings, so that now she's succeeded in making Trump look credible in the eyes of many Americans, something not even his own paid staff could accomplish.
2016: The year both candidates' platform is "Hey at least I'm not THAT asshole!" and both of them have a point.
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I wonder......do the republicans want HRC as their opponent? I think they do.
If a republican could find a way to charge her with something, or find something strong enough to cause her to step down, would they use it? If I were a republican I wouldn't want her to step down. Her candidacy is about the best they can do for themselves. They can continue with the leaks and such .... taking her down an inch at a time but never really taking her out. Take her out and they end up with a more likable, trustworthy opponent. That's gotta be the last thing they want.
If a republican could find a way to charge her with something, or find something strong enough to cause her to step down, would they use it? If I were a republican I wouldn't want her to step down. Her candidacy is about the best they can do for themselves. They can continue with the leaks and such .... taking her down an inch at a time but never really taking her out. Take her out and they end up with a more likable, trustworthy opponent. That's gotta be the last thing they want.
Interesting angle... but do the Republican elite really want Drumph? Seems to me that their silence at Tramp's idiocy speaks of voluminous embarrassment. Wondering what whispers shush in their backroom strategy sessions. Only two months left to drop the other shoe which may not be big enough still to kick someone's ass out of the park.
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For something a little different in this thread....
Ah yes, media TRUTH
One could wonder if some of The Donald's zingers float right over their heads, hmm, slanting is more fun?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Seeking a weekend break from his campaign rallies, Donald Trump jetted to his yacht, which was docked off the coast of Italy. He invited Pope Francis and the press corps on board for a Saturday afternoon cruise. It was a rather windy day. The Pope's little hat, his zucchetto, was blown from his head and into the water.
A crewman began lowering a boat to retrieve the zucchetto. Trump told the crewman not to bother. Trump climbed down the yacht's ladder, walked across the waves, picked up the zucchetto, walked back to the yacht, and handed it to the Pope.
The Pope and the press corps were amazed. Donald Trump could actually walk on water!
Speculation immediately began as to how ABC, CNN, NBC, The Washington Post, and The New York Times would report this miraculous event to the rest of the world.
The next morning, The New York Times headline read . . . .
DONALD TRUMP CAN'T SWIM
Ah yes, media TRUTH
One could wonder if some of The Donald's zingers float right over their heads, hmm, slanting is more fun?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Seeking a weekend break from his campaign rallies, Donald Trump jetted to his yacht, which was docked off the coast of Italy. He invited Pope Francis and the press corps on board for a Saturday afternoon cruise. It was a rather windy day. The Pope's little hat, his zucchetto, was blown from his head and into the water.
A crewman began lowering a boat to retrieve the zucchetto. Trump told the crewman not to bother. Trump climbed down the yacht's ladder, walked across the waves, picked up the zucchetto, walked back to the yacht, and handed it to the Pope.
The Pope and the press corps were amazed. Donald Trump could actually walk on water!
Speculation immediately began as to how ABC, CNN, NBC, The Washington Post, and The New York Times would report this miraculous event to the rest of the world.
The next morning, The New York Times headline read . . . .
DONALD TRUMP CAN'T SWIM
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@Msek I understand what you are getting at with the above video but there are many crazy folks out there that aren't smart enough to figure that all out. I'm smart enough to understand and don't really need someone to explain Trump to me.
I've seen enough of his brand of politics and innuendos to last a lifetime. It's shoot now and ask questions later is what most sane people are afraid of. Trump needs to weigh what he says. He wings it a lot of the time. Some people will take what he says literally. Common sense is out the window with Mr. trump.
I've also seen his crazy speeches at his rally's and how the audience are shouting racial slurs. The hatred is enough to turn my stomach. I just can't understand the ugliness.
IMO Trump has gotten way too much news coverage and given a free pass on way too many statements and actions. He's unfit to be a leader of my country.
I've seen enough of his brand of politics and innuendos to last a lifetime. It's shoot now and ask questions later is what most sane people are afraid of. Trump needs to weigh what he says. He wings it a lot of the time. Some people will take what he says literally. Common sense is out the window with Mr. trump.
I've also seen his crazy speeches at his rally's and how the audience are shouting racial slurs. The hatred is enough to turn my stomach. I just can't understand the ugliness.
IMO Trump has gotten way too much news coverage and given a free pass on way too many statements and actions. He's unfit to be a leader of my country.
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Amoreena
Grown up Flower Child
The outcome of a presidential election is NEVER certain until AFTER the people have voted! And even then, something (like the hanging chad incident) can screw things up. That's a fact and certainly not due to flaws in a candidate.
Once again I have to say it... I'll never forget his horrific mocking of the disabled reporter. That did it for me. And IF he were capable of speaking with clear sane intention without faux shoe leather in every mouthful, he wouldn't be such an easy media spin target. Drumph's so deeply-rooted and overtly ego-maniacal persona is such that the harder he tries to conceal it the more obvious he makes it. I think he figures (why try?), admitting to self at least how compulsively impulsive he is. He does give me hope in one conceptual aspect of future existence though, and that is in the possibility of life after death a/k/a reincarnation, for if Drumph isn't the indomitable spirit of Napoleon Bonaparte reborn in the present day flesh, there is hardly any other way to explain it, and life as we know it may be eternally doomed to be from dust to dust.
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grokit
well-worn member
Barring a dramatic unforeseen event, this contest will probably come down to turnout at the polling booth more than anything else. Drumpf's supporters seem to be way more passionate than killary's, even if she has more supporters overall. Passionate supporters, especially but not limited to those that are riled up in church against an existential threat, are the ones that most reliably get out the vote. Remember the millennials never voted like they promoted, at least in the primaries compared to their output and influence on social media. Without bernie in the race, I don't know if I would count on them in november either. I wonder if this could be the missing x-factor as far as the polls go, whether or not killary can inspire the millennials enough to actually show up at the polls and vote. I sincerely hope that they do but...
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TeeJay1952
Well-Known Member
Sorry I've been away from my computer..
You both have good points. It would be almost impossible for the house to choose a libertarian president. But after seeing how this campaign has unfolded, I think anything is possible. Anyways I was just saying that it is technically possible, even if it is extremely unlikely to happy.
Well the whigs and democrats were the two major parties before the republicans took over the whigs mostly because people were tired of slavery as you said and the whigs were for slavery. I think the republican party was less than a decade old by the time Lincoln was elected so I'd say that's pretty young. Not really sure how many republicans were in the house or senate by that time though.
My main point was that it is possible for him to win. Highly unlikely, especially since he has missed this first debate, but possible.
You both have good points. It would be almost impossible for the house to choose a libertarian president. But after seeing how this campaign has unfolded, I think anything is possible. Anyways I was just saying that it is technically possible, even if it is extremely unlikely to happy.
Well the whigs and democrats were the two major parties before the republicans took over the whigs mostly because people were tired of slavery as you said and the whigs were for slavery. I think the republican party was less than a decade old by the time Lincoln was elected so I'd say that's pretty young. Not really sure how many republicans were in the house or senate by that time though.
My main point was that it is possible for him to win. Highly unlikely, especially since he has missed this first debate, but possible.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Oh Yes!
Welcome Back
by D.R. Tucker
September 18, 2016 7:30 AM
Thank God.
I’m sure I wasn’t the only person who had that reaction to the news that GQ had hired Keith Olbermann to discuss the demented dynamics of the 2016 presidential election. It has been five long years since Olbermann was controversially forced out of MSNBC; Olbermann’s departure was profoundly painful for those who appreciated his courageous condemnation of former President George W. Bush, former Vice President Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Bill O’Reilly, the Koch Brothers and the Tea Party movement during his eight-year run on the trailblazing program Countdown.
It’s so good to have Olbermann back. Progressives need their wonks, their activists, their philosophers, their organizers and their strategists–but they also need folks who know how to stand up and strip the bark off the right wing. No one–no one–is better at that task than Olbermann.
(I know I posted this vid before, but once is not nearly enough...)
I never quite understood why certain progressives wring their hands about Olbermann’s style, why he’s seen in some circles as too harsh, too abrasive, too sarcastic, too much. We can’t all be nice. We can’t all be civil. Movements need people who can throw elbows, who can give it to the ideological adversary as viciously as that adversary can dish it out, who aren’t timid when it comes to calling out BS.
Olbermann has always had a clear-eyed understanding that conservatism is the enemy, that the conservative vision inevitably leads to more destruction, more depravity, more deceit, more dysfunction. He recognizes that conservatism–the ideology that gave us Ronald Reagan, Newt Gingrich, George W. Bush and Donald Trump–is a metastasizing cancer within the American body, and that if that cancer is left untreated, the American body will be consigned to hospice care.
Before Gretchen Carlson and Andrea Tantaros stood up to Roger Ailes, Olbermann stood up to him. Before the world recognized just how radical Donald Trump was, Olbermann denounced his demagoguery. He is a pioneer without fear, and like his former MSNBC colleague Chris Hayes, it is wrong that Olbermann’s accomplishments have largely gone without respect.
As you listen to Olbermann excoriate Trump, you realize just how much America misses and needs this man. Who else is willing to state plainly that Trump is a clear and present danger to America’s best ideals and values? Who else is willing to point out that Trump is empowering white supremacists in a manner we haven’t seen since George Wallace’s heyday? Who else is willing to stand up to the forces of false balance and declare that Trump is a sick puppy–and that if he becomes the 45th President, he will lift his leg on the Constitution?
We wouldn’t need a Keith Olbermann if we had a mainstream media that did its job without fear or favor, a Fourth Estate that favored facts, a press corps that didn’t genuflect to power. We need a Keith Olbermann to fight the pollution of our democracy for the same reason we need a carbon tax to fight the pollution of our atmosphere: to prevent our world from descending into chaos.
It’s great to have you back, Keith. Ignore the haters, the folks who can’t, or won’t, understand you. Keep doing what it takes to help our wounded country mend–and never, ever stop kicking right-wing rear end.
UPDATE: More from Olbermann.
Welcome Back
by D.R. Tucker
September 18, 2016 7:30 AM
Thank God.
I’m sure I wasn’t the only person who had that reaction to the news that GQ had hired Keith Olbermann to discuss the demented dynamics of the 2016 presidential election. It has been five long years since Olbermann was controversially forced out of MSNBC; Olbermann’s departure was profoundly painful for those who appreciated his courageous condemnation of former President George W. Bush, former Vice President Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Bill O’Reilly, the Koch Brothers and the Tea Party movement during his eight-year run on the trailblazing program Countdown.
It’s so good to have Olbermann back. Progressives need their wonks, their activists, their philosophers, their organizers and their strategists–but they also need folks who know how to stand up and strip the bark off the right wing. No one–no one–is better at that task than Olbermann.
I never quite understood why certain progressives wring their hands about Olbermann’s style, why he’s seen in some circles as too harsh, too abrasive, too sarcastic, too much. We can’t all be nice. We can’t all be civil. Movements need people who can throw elbows, who can give it to the ideological adversary as viciously as that adversary can dish it out, who aren’t timid when it comes to calling out BS.
Olbermann has always had a clear-eyed understanding that conservatism is the enemy, that the conservative vision inevitably leads to more destruction, more depravity, more deceit, more dysfunction. He recognizes that conservatism–the ideology that gave us Ronald Reagan, Newt Gingrich, George W. Bush and Donald Trump–is a metastasizing cancer within the American body, and that if that cancer is left untreated, the American body will be consigned to hospice care.
Before Gretchen Carlson and Andrea Tantaros stood up to Roger Ailes, Olbermann stood up to him. Before the world recognized just how radical Donald Trump was, Olbermann denounced his demagoguery. He is a pioneer without fear, and like his former MSNBC colleague Chris Hayes, it is wrong that Olbermann’s accomplishments have largely gone without respect.
As you listen to Olbermann excoriate Trump, you realize just how much America misses and needs this man. Who else is willing to state plainly that Trump is a clear and present danger to America’s best ideals and values? Who else is willing to point out that Trump is empowering white supremacists in a manner we haven’t seen since George Wallace’s heyday? Who else is willing to stand up to the forces of false balance and declare that Trump is a sick puppy–and that if he becomes the 45th President, he will lift his leg on the Constitution?
We wouldn’t need a Keith Olbermann if we had a mainstream media that did its job without fear or favor, a Fourth Estate that favored facts, a press corps that didn’t genuflect to power. We need a Keith Olbermann to fight the pollution of our democracy for the same reason we need a carbon tax to fight the pollution of our atmosphere: to prevent our world from descending into chaos.
It’s great to have you back, Keith. Ignore the haters, the folks who can’t, or won’t, understand you. Keep doing what it takes to help our wounded country mend–and never, ever stop kicking right-wing rear end.
UPDATE: More from Olbermann.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
That was a good video. You know I like William Weld his running mate, better than Gary Johnson. He really is my favorite person throughout all of the nominees. I will add personally I like him. I don't want Trump so much that it's just too much of a gamble this time around. I just can't do it at this point. Trump is so scarey for me to fathom as a president.
A vote is so important but an individual choice to make. Everyone needs to live with the choice that they make and feel good about it. I feel that I've made my choice at this point but you never know what might happen before Election Day. I do like Tim Kane he's my second favorite.
To be honest I don't know Weld's stance on things. I like him personally. If he were against abortion I would have to change my mind. I know Tim Kane said he changed his mind on that.
I don't agree with the Liberatatian philosophy.
I changed some of my above post.
A vote is so important but an individual choice to make. Everyone needs to live with the choice that they make and feel good about it. I feel that I've made my choice at this point but you never know what might happen before Election Day. I do like Tim Kane he's my second favorite.
To be honest I don't know Weld's stance on things. I like him personally. If he were against abortion I would have to change my mind. I know Tim Kane said he changed his mind on that.
I don't agree with the Liberatatian philosophy.
I changed some of my above post.
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cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Cute vid. If only Johnson/Weld was a reasonable alternative. It's not.
And if 2/3 of Americans "would vote for anyone else", why is Johnson poling around 7 or 8%?
Starting to sound like Weld may drop out soon anyway for fear of helping Trump. Does Johnson have anyone else he could fill his spot with?
Edit: I haven't seen anyone else pushing the idea of Weld dropping out other than Bernstein so it may be that he is just trying to promote his book. I don't know. We'll see soon.
And if 2/3 of Americans "would vote for anyone else", why is Johnson poling around 7 or 8%?
Starting to sound like Weld may drop out soon anyway for fear of helping Trump. Does Johnson have anyone else he could fill his spot with?
Edit: I haven't seen anyone else pushing the idea of Weld dropping out other than Bernstein so it may be that he is just trying to promote his book. I don't know. We'll see soon.
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yogoshio
Annoying Libertarian
I love the premise of the site it's advocating. They match you to an opposing party member who also will not vote their party, which completely removes the false notion of "wasting a vote," which to me the only vote wasted is the one not placed, but I digress...
In regards to polling numbers, you have to remember the verbage and availability of polls that include Johnson/Weld are few and far between. And he has had almost no media exposure.
In regards to polling numbers, you have to remember the verbage and availability of polls that include Johnson/Weld are few and far between. And he has had almost no media exposure.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Right, because that is certain to be handled honestly. Ah hahahaha...
Sadly, there are still states that allow you to photograph your completed ballot so someone who paid you to vote a certain way can verify it.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Again with the Sid Blumenthal Conspiracies?
by D.R. Tucker
September 18, 2016 2:50 PM
MSNBC’s Joy Reid noted yesterday that her colleague Chris Hayes established in 2007 that birtherism was created and promoted by the far-right. So are we really supposed to believe that skepticism about President Obama’s place of birth was the handiwork of…longtime Clinton associate Sidney Blumenthal?
This dubious claim, now being relentlessly hyped by the right-wing blogosphere, originates from James Asher, a former Washington bureau chief for the McClatchy news service, who would have us believe that Blumenthal is the head birther-in-chief:
The Washington Post‘s Fact Checker certainly seems to think Asher’s claims are ten pounds of bull in a five-pound bag:
Maybe it’s just me, but I’d take Blumenthal’s credibility over that of Asher, who has a track record of embracing the ethically dubious Wikileaks and the far-right Daily Caller, downplaying the Holocaust denialism of former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the class warfare of 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney, showing affinity for Russian propaganda sources and smearing the Clinton Foundation.
Of course, Blumenthal was not a member of Clinton’s 2008 campaign staff, and it’s profoundly unlikely that he would encourage journalists to pursue a path of inquiry that would a) obviously lead nowhere and b) make both himself and Clinton look like colossal fools.
Obviously, Blumenthal was, and is, a pro-Clinton partisan as well as a journalist. However, based on the last few months of his Twitter feed, which is long on attacks on Clinton and short on attacks on Trump, it seems that Asher is one of the legions of journalists who believe that when Clinton breathes (or coughs), she’s engaging in corruption.
by D.R. Tucker
September 18, 2016 2:50 PM
MSNBC’s Joy Reid noted yesterday that her colleague Chris Hayes established in 2007 that birtherism was created and promoted by the far-right. So are we really supposed to believe that skepticism about President Obama’s place of birth was the handiwork of…longtime Clinton associate Sidney Blumenthal?
This dubious claim, now being relentlessly hyped by the right-wing blogosphere, originates from James Asher, a former Washington bureau chief for the McClatchy news service, who would have us believe that Blumenthal is the head birther-in-chief:
James Asher said that longtime Hillary Clinton personally told him to look into where President Obama was born back in 2008. Blumenthal and one unpaid volunteer are so far the only ones in Clinton’s sphere who have been alleged so far to have engaged in any birther talk during that election.
Well, Asher told McClatchy that not only did Blumenthal request they look into it, but they actually looked into it:
“During that meeting, Mr. Blumenthal and I met together in my office and he strongly urged me to investigate the exact place of President Obama’s birth, which he suggested was in Kenya. We assigned a reporter to go to Kenya, and that reporter determined that the allegation was false.
“At the time of Mr. Blumenthal’s conversation with me, there had been a few news articles published in various outlets reporting on rumors about Obama’s birthplace. While Mr. Blumenthal offered no concrete proof of Obama’s Kenyan birth, I felt that, as journalists, we had a responsibility to determine whether or not those rumors were true. They were not.”
Blumenthal responded by telling McClatchy, “This is false. Period.”
Well, Asher told McClatchy that not only did Blumenthal request they look into it, but they actually looked into it:
“During that meeting, Mr. Blumenthal and I met together in my office and he strongly urged me to investigate the exact place of President Obama’s birth, which he suggested was in Kenya. We assigned a reporter to go to Kenya, and that reporter determined that the allegation was false.
“At the time of Mr. Blumenthal’s conversation with me, there had been a few news articles published in various outlets reporting on rumors about Obama’s birthplace. While Mr. Blumenthal offered no concrete proof of Obama’s Kenyan birth, I felt that, as journalists, we had a responsibility to determine whether or not those rumors were true. They were not.”
Blumenthal responded by telling McClatchy, “This is false. Period.”
The Washington Post‘s Fact Checker certainly seems to think Asher’s claims are ten pounds of bull in a five-pound bag:
James Asher, former D.C. bureau chief of McClatchy, tweeted on Sept. 16 that Clinton ally Sidney Blumenthal had met with him to ask for an investigation into birther rumors in 2008. Asher told McClatchy that Blumenthal “strongly urged” him to “investigate the exact place of President Obama’s birth, which he suggested was in Kenya.” McClatchy assigned a reporter to go to Kenya, and the reporter found the allegation was false, Asher said.
We reached out to Asher, but he did not respond to our requests for further explanation. Blumenthal, declining to elaborate further, said in a statement to The Fact Checker: “This is false. Period. Donald Trump cannot distract from the fact that he is the one who embraced and promoted the birther lie, and bears the responsibility for it.”
We reached out to Asher, but he did not respond to our requests for further explanation. Blumenthal, declining to elaborate further, said in a statement to The Fact Checker: “This is false. Period. Donald Trump cannot distract from the fact that he is the one who embraced and promoted the birther lie, and bears the responsibility for it.”
Maybe it’s just me, but I’d take Blumenthal’s credibility over that of Asher, who has a track record of embracing the ethically dubious Wikileaks and the far-right Daily Caller, downplaying the Holocaust denialism of former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the class warfare of 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney, showing affinity for Russian propaganda sources and smearing the Clinton Foundation.
Of course, Blumenthal was not a member of Clinton’s 2008 campaign staff, and it’s profoundly unlikely that he would encourage journalists to pursue a path of inquiry that would a) obviously lead nowhere and b) make both himself and Clinton look like colossal fools.
Obviously, Blumenthal was, and is, a pro-Clinton partisan as well as a journalist. However, based on the last few months of his Twitter feed, which is long on attacks on Clinton and short on attacks on Trump, it seems that Asher is one of the legions of journalists who believe that when Clinton breathes (or coughs), she’s engaging in corruption.
Silat
When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
I heard from someone that Drumpf has AIDs, has raped many young woman, was born in Russia and is not an American, wants to subvert the constitution and will hand over power to Putin if elected.
I am not saying any of that is true.
I am saying that I heard it from many many people.
I have sent detectives to Russia and they have found shocking information.
/s
To be fair and balanced, Trump has been accused of rape and it is working its way through the courts.
See how easy it is?
That is how the reich does it.
I am not saying any of that is true.
I am saying that I heard it from many many people.
I have sent detectives to Russia and they have found shocking information.
/s
To be fair and balanced, Trump has been accused of rape and it is working its way through the courts.
See how easy it is?
That is how the reich does it.