The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[ClearBlueLou]

My biggest worry right now is Trump becoming Prez.

My second biggest worry, which sometimes overshadows the one above, is what's gonna happen AFTER the election regardless who wins. If Trump wins, the minorities in this country are going to feel VERY threatened, VERY fearful, and VERY angry. If Hillary wins, the uneducated white majority in this country are going to feel VERY threatened, VERY fearful, and VERY angry. My fear is how in the hell is that fear and anger going to play out. People do some crazy shit when they're fearful and angry and the reaction to that fear and anger will be the same, with the same intensity, regardless who wins.

yes, this - very MUCH this.

 

[BD9]

How about one is Liederkrantz cheese and the other is Swiss... each is featured on a separate menu and at a different restaurant... pick your cheese and restaurant of choice,

You may have just ruined cheese for me.............

This election does have the stench of a nice Limburger though.

 

[lwien]

So I just posted the pic in the thread titled "Products That Make You Go..........Hmmmmm?!?.

BUT...........the following is a new deluxe version with gold plated attachments and genuine corinthian leather used on the bellows. This item, designed to blow smoke up your ass, will only be available through Trump Enterprises and includes the Trump family crest emblazoned on the top of the finely crafted teak carrying case.

This item is personally carried and used by all of Donald Trump surrogates but now, he is offering it to you, his supporters, so that you too can use it, not only on yourself but your loved ones as well, along with your most cherished acquaintances.

I present to you.........."The DELUXE Version"

 

[Gunky]

Perhaps the phrase "lesser of two evils" confounds some into thinking this is a comparitive bundle being weighed on the same scale - failing to grasp that it is not, necessarily. How about one is Liederkrantz cheese and the other is Swiss... each is featured on a separate menu and at a different restaurant... pick your cheese and restaurant of choice, if you feel you must... and hold your nose if you feel you must.

No. You're just making the same parity with malodorous cheese. Don't you see how this 'lesser of two evils' rhetoric gives cover to voting for Trump? Both are bad, therefore it doesn't make much difference which I choose. I'm unhappy with now, so how about Trump to shake things up? Saying they are both bad confuses a clear-cut issue and makes it murky. It's a very wrong, inaccurate description which disguises the true state of affairs and suggests that what is in fact a vast qualitative difference is just a small quantitative difference, turning a night and day, life and death distinction into a matter of degree. Words matter.

If you really don't want Trump, if you view him as a different kind of candidate and a threat, shouldn't you be emphasizing the night and day differences between Trump and his opponent, not minimizing those differences and talking up the (supposed) similarities?

 

[Snappo]

Prospective voters will cut the cheese in whatever manner of analyses suits them best. Some will cut with a scalpel and then parse the microscopic flotsam making of whatever quantitative & qualitative derivatives suits their particular foregone conclusions best. I think a butter knife cutting into the issues at this long endured point does the job well enough without forcing us to overthink and fall to anyone else's side of the fence. If I had a choice between buying life insurance from Captain Hook or Hannibal Lecter I'd probably hedge my bet with the captain, at least at a gut level. In either case I'd move to the country well-hidden inside miles and miles of protected forest.

 

[CarolKing]

I stated the "lesser of two evils" is a saying. I don't believe Hillary is evil is what I stated. I think we are picking fly shit out of pepper. Another saying, but it's not literally true. Right?

What we are getting off our chest in our little fuckcombustion world, I don't think will change the election one bit. Trump is dangerous I think we all agree with that.

Edit
Trump is saying stupid stuff again. I'm glad. He wants Hillary's security folks guns taken away? Joking again about an assassination. Which shows how dangerous he is. He's is looking like the country idiot as we have seen for the last year and a half. I'm at the point where I change the channel when Trump's surrogates are talking him up. I don't want to hear it.

We've seen Hillary Clinton support black citizens ever since she's been in the public eye. Trump only wants to visit the black communities when he wants their vote. He is so transparent in what he says and does. He will find a word or phrase and keeps repeating it. It gets into these racist heads and they just go with it.

It's so disappointing seeing such hatred. I feel sad about it, kinda depresses you seeing all this anger. I guess that's what 8 years of a black president will do to some people. Really too bad I thought we had grown from a nation further than that.

Common Bernie and Elizabeth Warren my favs. Fire up the liberals and the folks under 30. Just get out and vote. Make sure you are registered. I keep adding to my post.

 

[His_Highness]

- Lesser of two evils.
- Neither of the two cheeses mentioned earlier will appeal to someone who is lactose intolerant (You could substitute lactose intolerance in this case to being a Bernie supporter).
- Here's another....Of the two farts, the second one is sweeter smelling. Can't wait to start sniffing, right?

No matter how you write the above.... both choices suck. The difference is in the eye of the beholder as to the degree of suckiness. To some they are equally disgusting choices. To others one choice is less repellent than the other.

So to those who feel Trump is a more sucky choice than HRC.....I couldn't agree more which is why I will vote for HRC.

To those like myself, who would have preferred Bernie....they both still suck. It's how much they suck that is the debate point as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ClearBlueLou]

I stated the "lesser of two evils" is a saying. I don't believe Hillary is evil is what I stated. I think we are picking fly shit out of pepper. Another saying, but it's not literally true. Right?

What we are getting off our chest in our little fuckcombustion world, I don't think will change the election one bit. Trump is dangerous I think we all agree with that.

The ones who don't agree aren't talking, so adjustments should be made

 

[Snappo]

Just because we reduce our opinions here to cliche' and banality doesn't mean we haven't given considerable deliberative critical thought to our choices. I personally don't respect that assumption, and further don't like being told how to think. I am of course always open to revision, but in the final analyses that will always come of my own volition.

 

[His_Highness]

It comes down to self-control so maybe you folks who think Trump will trip himself up in a direct debate are correct. I hope so BUT.....if he can control himself and use the same trick his hired political guns use.....this isn't anywhere near a sure thing.

Haven't you folks noticed that whenever someone asks a hired Trumper or Trumpette to explain a Trump statement that they NEVER answer the question. They simply re-direct. It makes the moderator nuts and it works every time. If they can teach this to Trump it will frustrate Hillary and the moderator something fierce. We're all dependent on him losing his shit.

If you saw Bill Mahar and Kellyanne Conway's debate last night you saw what I was alluding to above. I give them both credit for the debate but I thought Kellyanne won. Bill broke out the big guns with references like Kellyanne's kids and what they learn from watching Trump. Still, no matter what bullets Bill fired off and no matter how solid the truth behind the bullets were...Kellyanne deflected all of it and made her own points occasionally.

Every time someone says 'Trump finally did it. He went to far. This one is going to destroy his chances.' I compare the new 'went-to-far' thing to the previous ones and always come away thinking many of the previous ones were worse. Trump's like Jason from Friday the 13th and Kellyanne is his very effective, yet diabolically crazy mother.

As of right now....we have nothing near a decisive HRC lead and the momentum is not on our side.

 

[Snappo]

You can lead a horse to water, but try and try as you might, you can't make him choke on it.

 

[KimDracula]

Conway doesn't win debates. She dodges and pivots like a politician. You can give her credit for doing her job but you might also say the same of a professional thief. She's a villain who makes her living pushing horrible leaders.

As long as our young voters don't abandon sense with third party candidates or apathy we should be okay. The naivete of voting for a candidate that can't win while we have Trump on the ticket will never make sense to me. You would think the endorsements of Sanders and Warren would help. We're not gonna get a comfortable lead even if it turns out to be a big electoral victory. The divisions between the parties are just too strong. Most Republicans will come home to that ape.

My biggest worry right now is Trump becoming Prez.

My second biggest worry, which sometimes overshadows the one above, is what's gonna happen AFTER the election regardless who wins. If Trump wins, the minorities in this country are going to feel VERY threatened, VERY fearful, and VERY angry. If Hillary wins, the uneducated white majority in this country are going to feel VERY threatened, VERY fearful, and VERY angry. My fear is how in the hell is that fear and anger going to play out. People do some crazy shit when they're fearful and angry and the reaction to that fear and anger will be the same, with the same intensity, regardless who wins.

Here's the thing about the aftermath: if Trump wins these things will all happen plus whatever actual mistakes he makes every day while president. If Hillary wins the people who you think will be angry are the people who are always angry. These are the angry old white men and FOX news viewers who busy themselves looking for scapegoats and grousing about how the world used to be. Those people are supposed to be angry because they are reactionaries in a world that must progress.

 

[cybrguy]

My biggest worry right now is Trump becoming Prez.

My second biggest worry, which sometimes overshadows the one above, is what's gonna happen AFTER the election regardless who wins. If Trump wins, the minorities in this country are going to feel VERY threatened, VERY fearful, and VERY angry. If Hillary wins, My fear is how in the hell is that fear and anger going to play out. People do some crazy shit when they're fearful and angry and the reaction to that fear and anger will be the same, with the same intensity, regardless who wins.

I agree with this, but there is a critical point that must be included and made when describing this comparison between the populations fear.

Should Trump win and "the minorities in this country are going to feel VERY threatened, VERY fearful, and VERY angry", that fear and anger and sense of threat is appropriate and self protecting. There WILL BE GOOD REASON for them to be angry and afraid. Their very well being will be more threatened and they are LIKELY to suffer more abuse than they already do.

Should Hillary win, and "the uneducated white majority in this country are going to feel VERY threatened, VERY fearful, and VERY angry", that emotional response will be INCORRECT, UNNECESSARY and spurred on by a hostile and aggressive (segment at least of the) republican electorate, AND some significant portion of the 535 elected members of congress whose job it is to do just the opposite in bringing people together and soothing their fears.

This is another area where IT IS CRUCIAL TO POINT OUT THAT THESE FUTURES ARE NOT EQUIVALENT AND THE RATIONALS FOR THEM ARE NOT THE SAME.

There is very little that is the same between these two campaigns and the America they promise to create is very different. We need to spend as much time as we can talking about those differences.

 

[macbill]

I'm afraid the debate will devolve into both candidates calling each other "Lying Liar". I may wait for the transcript.

 

[gangababa]

Reactionaries in a real world that must progress, are regressive- not conservative.

In a world , static in imagination, conservatives are not reactionary.

In a world of evil choices, choices must be made.
Bad behavior (what ever else evil may imply) causes disturbance.
In a real world, choices are never easy. Situational ethics is real.
Vote, if you must, against Hillary because people die in the real world of evil international arms manufacturers, merchants and users.

Vote 3rd party, if you must, for your own feelings rather than for the nation.
Know this though, if you respect that stopping bad behavior is righteous, vote or the one more likely to bring disturbance, not destruction.

Would you hire your gardener to do your colonoscopy? Your auto mechanic for floral wedding arrangements? Your proctologist to cater the wedding? Turn over your Mercedes over to the garbage man for repair?

Why turn your country over to a con man?

 

[cybrguy]

I'm afraid the debate will devolve into both candidates calling each other "Lying Liar". I may wait for the transcript.

Actually I am expecting this to be a great debate, and I wouldn't miss it for anything. It could be anywhere along the line between illuminating and excruciating, and it could very well be both in a big way.

If Trump is tranked, he may be able to keep his shit together but he will be dull. There will be no teleprompter for him to rely on.

If he is not, I am confident his thin skin will erupt like a volcano. It's not like we don't all know where MANY of his buttons are. Hillary's debate prep folks certainly do. There are an awful lot of ways to push him off the rails, I would think...

 

[yogoshio]

Why turn your country over to a systemic liar, war monger, weapons dealer for ISIS, and human rights violations ignorer?

Or someone willing to rig an election, lie under oath, change stances based on political popularity, and help perpetuate America's overseas empirical control?

You all can pretend like its impossible to compare Trump and Clinton, but that doesn't make it illogical. They are both pathological liars, both egotistical, both maniacal, but they just happen to present these characteristics in very different ways.

 

[CarolKing]

If Trump doesn't do well in the debates he will just blame the moderator and say that it was rigged. He had said he didn't want Anderson Cooper. He had been complaining about the dates of the debates that it was rigged. The dates had been chosen a long time ago.

I'm looking forward to the debates and hope that Trump bombs big time. You're right he won't have a TelePrompTer he will be like a "deer in the headlights". I give Kellyanne Conway credit for Trump's partial transformation. She is just a highly paid mouthpiece and adviser to the wicked. Trying to tame and teach the unteachable. She trying to legitimize this lowlife.

 

[lwien]

This is another area where IT IS CRUCIAL TO POINT OUT THAT THESE FUTURES ARE NOT EQUIVALENT AND THE RATIONALS FOR THEM ARE NOT THE SAME.

In spite of the reasons and rationals, in spite of who is right and who is wrong, the impact of the fear and anger could very well be the same.

 

[KimDracula]

Why turn your country over to a systemic liar, war monger, weapons dealer for ISIS, and human rights violations ignorer?

Or someone willing to rig an election, lie under oath, change stances based on political popularity, and help perpetuate America's overseas empirical control?

You all can pretend like its impossible to compare Trump and Clinton, but that doesn't make it illogical. They are both pathological liars, both egotistical, both maniacal, but they just happen to present these characteristics in very different ways.

No, man. Is it too hard to resist oversimplification? These two aren't at all similar. It is also telling that these things are rattled off about Clinton without any effort to explain or substantiate them. There are legitimate critiques of the way our government does things but to attribute them all to one person is laughable. To then compare these things somehow to Trump is even more ridiculous and lazy.

 

[yogoshio]

Her stance on gay marriage went from a deeply held conviction in 2014 to having "always supported it" in the debates. She lied about the number and type of devices used under oath during the hearings. She and DWS were found to have aided in controlling the press in regards to primary election news reports. As SoS she was solely responsible for signing off on weapons deals which increased 800% under her oversight. Weapons were sold to known human rights violators in exchange for foundation donations. She admitted to sending weapons to groups that were aliases for ISIS in Syria.

These items have been substantiated with links to Salon.com, huffpo, washington times, wikileaks, etc. multiple times throughout this thread. Just because there's not a link in every post doesn't make it any less real.

 

[TeeJay1952]

 

[His_Highness]

Many of us democrats can't take the blinders off our own opinions long enough to recognize that 'personal opinions is all they are'. A strongly felt opinion is not always a fact even if you believe it to be.

There are some who view the election in simple terms:
- More of the same (Gridlock)
- Change for the sake of change (Stop the gridlock and get something done)

Most of us who post in this thread don't hold so simplistic a viewpoint. Unfortunately it's the simplistic viewpoint holders that need to be brought around and here's why.....read those two simple terms again with an eye on who it sounds better for.

 

[KimDracula]

Her stance on gay marriage went from a deeply held conviction in 2014 to having "always supported it" in the debates. She lied about the number and type of devices used under oath during the hearings. She and DWS were found to have aided in controlling the press in regards to primary election news reports. As SoS she was solely responsible for signing off on weapons deals which increased 800% under her oversight. Weapons were sold to known human rights violators in exchange for foundation donations. She admitted to sending weapons to groups that were aliases for ISIS in Syria.

These items have been substantiated with links to Salon.com, huffpo, washington times, wikileaks, etc. multiple times throughout this thread. Just because there's not a link in every post doesn't make it any less real.

1. Yep, she's far from perfect. It would have been nice if Democrats like the Clintons and even Obama had been overtly and loudly on the right side of everything from jump, but politics is a game of perceptions and calculation. What is more important is fighting for what's right over time. Look at the alternative. Do we expect any Republican, let alone Donald Trump to be anything but enemies of progress when it comes to equal rights?

2. These concerns regarding weapons deals and our costly adventures in foreign policy are concerns that I share. Administrations of both parties have done controversial, even heinous things in this sphere with the definite edge in stupidity and ulterior motives going to the GOP again. Again also we are faced with the reality that Trump is not going to be the answer to this. He would only make things worse.

I don't make my arguments because I think Clinton is right about everything. Even the most successful American presidents have done awful things of which we should be ashamed. This seems likely to continue, unfortunately. While this shouldn't keep us from criticizing our leaders it shouldn't make decisions like the one we are now faced with any more difficult. Clinton is flawed like all others but the things we don't like about her cannot be fixed with a Trump presidency. A vote for any other candidate is only going to help Trump. We're never gonna get a perfect leader so we just have to choose the best available option.

EDIT: Sure, like grokit says, if you're in a solidly red or blue state you're not necessarily helping one or the other. In this case, however, I would just stay home if I felt somehow slimy choosing any of the available options.

 

[grokit]

My choice is still the same. Voting exclusively for my self-interests, killary would give me the health care I need if she gets a cooperative congress. Another big if. Writing in bernie if she doesn't stand a chance in my state anyways, would give me protest vote satisfaction for this election and the system that enabled it.

The funny thing is when I tell a drumpf supporter that I'm writing in bernie/voting 3rd party, they tell me that I may as well be voting for "evil killary". When I tell a killary supporter the same thing, they tell me that a vote for a 3rd party might as well be a vote for "orange hitler" as maher puts it. Funny right ha ha.

Today's email headlines are brought to you by the "daily liberal blast" into my mail box; these are all four of them, and the only one that doesn't mention drumpf by name mentions the confederate flag instead.

Trump’s Disastrous Immigration Plan Would Cost U.S. Economy $1.6 Trillion

The Real Problem With Donald Trump’s Trickle-Down Tax Plan

This Is How You Handle A Truck With The Confederate Flag On It

Trump Shows His Hand, Reveals Plan To Hijack The Debates