The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

Gunky

Well-Known Member
Obama has been fairly straightforward recently about the perils of regime change. What Clinton says sounds a bit more muscular but amounts to the same thing: we'll help where we can but the impetus to establish and defend a government cannot come from us. When it does it falls apart the moment we leave. Repubs such as Rubio and Bush still haven't learned this lesson.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Well, folks, it looks to me like the Republican party is doing Hillary a great favor. They are assuring her election by breaking their promise to the Donald. They are gathering to attack him, and that will "reasonably" be construed as treating him unfairly and assuring his run as a third party. He can't win, that way, but he CAN assure the republican loses.
---------------------------------

GOP Operative Plans ‘Guerrilla Campaign’ Against Donald Trump
Move comes as growing number of Republicans fear damage to party’s image and ‘Hillary Clinton will become president’
BN-LJ591_TRUMP__P_20151120151234.jpg

Liz Mair, a well-connected GOP operative, is planning a ‘guerrilla campaign’ backed by secret donors aimed at knocking Donald Trump out of the presidential race.

By
Beth Reinhard and
Janet Hook


The Republican establishment, increasingly alarmed by the enduring strength of Donald Trump’s presidential bid, is ratcheting up efforts to knock him out of the race, including the first attempt to unite donors from rival camps into a single anti-Trump force.

A well-connected GOP operative is planning a “guerrilla campaign” backed by secret donors to “defeat and destroy” the celebrity businessman’s candidacy, according to a memo reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

A super PAC supporting Ohio Gov. John Kasich is airing a series of ads targeting Mr. Trump. Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush struck with his bluntest attacks yet on Friday, and the super PAC associated with the Club for Growth, an economic conservative group, is trying to raise money to resume attack ads that it has run in Iowa against Mr. Trump.

Together, the efforts seem to represent a turning point in the GOP contest, in which other campaigns have previously been skittish about taking on Mr. Trump so directly. The sense of urgency has mounted in part because Mr. Trump continues at or near the top of GOP polls, even after many predicted that the Paris terror attacks would lead voters to turn to a more seasoned candidate.

The most concerted effort is Trump Card LLC, the self-styled guerrilla campaign being launched by Liz Mair, the former online communications director of the Republican National Committee.

“In the absence of our efforts, Trump is exceedingly unlikely to implode or be forced out of the race,” according to the Trump Card memo. “The stark reality is that unless something dramatic and unconventional is done, Trump will be the Republican nominee and Hillary Clinton will become president.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-operative-plans-guerrilla-campaign-against-donald-trump-1448050937
 

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
Well, folks, it looks to me like the Republican party is doing Hillary a great favor. They are assuring her election by breaking their promise to the Donald. They are gathering to attack him, and that will "reasonably" be construed as treating him unfairly and assuring his run as a third party. He can't win, that way, but he CAN assure the republican loses.
---------------------------------

IDK, Trump is certainly the vindictive type, and I can see if he was beat up and forced out of the race due to aggressive anti- Trump ad campaigns, he would want to run as a third party Candidate and be the spoiler. However, on the other hand ,The Donald is a narcissist with an extremely inflated ego thus may not want to put the time and effort into a campaign he has no chance of winning. Trump is all about winning! After all, winning has always has always been a central part of his entire business career. No matter who he destroys in the process..

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out if in fact they attack him as aggressively as some say they will.
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Even after being told that the New Jersey police have debunked his fairy tale, Trump continues to lie during a phone interview with ABC:

“There were people that were cheering on the other side of New Jersey where you have large Arab populations. They were cheering as the World Trade Center came down. I know it might be not politically correct for you to talk about it, but there were people cheering as that building came down — as those buildings came down, and that tells you something. It was well covered at the time.”

Listening to this guy cover one lie with another makes my stomach turn.

How could anyone listen to him and sincerely believe in him? He’s the biggest joke in America’s presidential history.
He's trying to stir up hate in America.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Yeah, maybe. Or maybe he is just waking up the hate that is already there. We didn't used to see it. It was quieter. And it wasn't shared with everyone, just other haters. Now we all get to see it, and those that kept it inside now have a candidate.

Sarah brought it out first. And the power it gave her made Trump realize he could use it. This is the hate that made Sarah and the tea party. Don't expect it to go away any time soon. It is now just another tool in the toolbox. Beware its jagged edges...
 

KimDracula

Well-Known Member
Yeah, maybe. Or maybe he is just waking up the hate that is already there. We didn't used to see it. It was quieter. And it wasn't shared with everyone, just other haters. Now we all get to see it, and those that kept it inside now have a candidate.

Sarah brought it out first. And the power it gave her made Trump realize he could use it. This is the hate that made Sarah and the tea party. Don't expect it to go away any time soon. It is now just another tool in the toolbox. Beware its jagged edges...

I'm very disturbed at how easily so many Americans turn to nationalist/religious bigotry, hate, and fear when we are so relatively safe compared to the rest of the world. I fear that this sect could grow much larger when this country is inevitably attacked by Islamic terrorists again on a large scale. Too many of us seem so eager to surrender freedoms and Liberal values when this particular type of scary stuff happens. Strangely, however, as long as it is everyday American gun violence or police murder those same people are unmoved. It is possible for a perfect storm to occur that could potentially leave us with a leader like Trump at some point in the future. It's not terrorism I'm really afraid of here at home; it's the reaction to terrorism I fear.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Not all of American history is pretty. Along the continuum of the American experiment we were closer to legal slavery in America than modern times when 937 Jews trying to escape Nazi Germany were turned away from American shores on the St Louis in 1939. That was an embarrassing mistake tarnishing the promise of an open hand and safety from persecution, what we stood for even then. We have learned to regret that mistake, as we have learned to regret putting many of our own citizens in camps because they looked like and shared ancestors with the enemy.

Now, some 75 years later, a large segment of the American public, particularly many who are charged with protecting our nation and our promise of freedom and security, want to turn away another group of victims that have done nothing wrong and only want to live in peace. Is THAT the America that we love? Is THAT what we stand for? Are we so afraid that our principles and promises are discarded when the going gets tough and terrorists threaten us? Is that who we have become? I don't think so. If we give more than lip service to our ideals than we HAVE to do the right thing and offer sanctuary to these frightened and persecuted souls being chased by murdering thugs using a bastardization of a great religion as a shield from responsibility.

Whether or not we are obliged to send our soldiers to war to stop this carnage, the very least we can do is provide some safety to the thousands running for their lives. We are still Americans, even if we have lost our way...
 

grokit

well-worn member
It's time that america turned the page to a new reality, because going "old school" on the rest of the world isn't working for anybody but the elites, as they prey on the rest of humanity by keeping us at each other's throats. The current trends of alienation and individualization are perfect for the divide and conquer crowd.
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Just go shopping; without the federal ACA subsidies you would be paying a whole lot more for health insurance. It's not like you have to accept it, you can still buy insurance in the private marketplace. But speaking of sticker shock, I don't think you will like any of your your non-subsidized choices.

Welcome to socialism, american-style :cheers:!
(edit: where the healthcare corporations get even bigger subsidies than the citizens being cared for)

Took your advice and called an independent agent for a direct quote. Here's the ACA result I posted prior with more detail:
- ACA for 2016 = $1350 per month for medical and dental. Silver plan, $7200 deductible, no co-pays, cost coverage kicks in after deductible. Tried to do a apples to apples with the silver cobra plan but that would have cost me between $1500 to $1700.

Couple things to note when going direct:
- Going direct/off-market means they can deny me coverage for pre-existing issues. The wife and I have to answer the usual questionnaire for underwriting.
- Going direct means I would likely have to pay the ACA penalty for 2016 which on average is equal to a month's premium.
- The wife and I answered the questions and we would be approved going direct.

Going Direct Cost:
1- $1120 premium, $5000 deductible, preventative covered 100% and $50 copay for doctor visits.
2- $800 premium, $5000 deductible, preventative covered 100% and no copay. Must meet deductible and then 100% covered
.

Option 1 - If the penalty is $1350 and the 12 month direct premium cost is $13440 the total cost per year without the deductible in the mix is $14,790 per year for going direct.
Option 2 - If the penalty is $1350 and the 12 month direct premium cost is $9600 the total cost per year without the deductible in the mix is $10,950 per year for going direct.

Compared to the ACA at $1350 per month = $16,200 per year for a much higher deductible and no co-pay.

When I said to the agent that going direct was allowing the insurance companies to cherry pick the healthy people and making it harder for the ACA to meet its objectives he said...'very few people bother looking into the direct option since they believe a larger covered population will result in less cost and they don't want to pay the penalty'.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Going direct means I would likely have to pay the ACA penalty for 2016 which on average is equal to a month's premium.
This is not the right place for this discussion, but I don't get this. You have to pay a penalty for going off the exchange? Why would that be, I thought the penalty is for not being insured...
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
@cybrguy - There's a 'Minimal Essential Coverage' guideline that must be met and 'Most' plans meet the guideline as long as the plan meets what's called the 'Individual Shared Responsibility' coverage. I have to look deeper into it and will call the independent agent again to see specifically why he felt I might have to pay the penalty.

There are percentage coverage thresholds that must be met along with services like maternity and newborn care that each ACA plan includes whether you like it or not. I don't need nor want child dental or birth-care coverage as an example and by going direct I can decide not to include them.

I'm not sure this thread is the wrong place for this discussion since it will be a huge part of the 2016 candidate platform.....or should be. On second thought you are probably right since we are getting into the weeds (Pun intended :D) and should either create a new thread or do the PM thing.
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
Ok guys, lets not freak out too much. Check out the following:
http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/07/24/poll-republican-party-approval-ratings-lowest-in-decades/

All of this talk here is primarily who is going to win the Republican primary. When it gets to the general election, they will lose regardless who their candidate is, but they will only lose if the Democrats turn out and vote.

The way I see it, if some crazy GOP candidate becomes our next Prez, it is totally the fault of lazy Democrats who say to themselves:

"I'm not going to vote because it won't make a difference anyway."
to
"I'd rather be sitting at Starbucks sipping my latte rather than standing in line for a voting booth."
to
"There's no way that my country is going to vote in some racist GOP candidate. They don't really need my vote to keep him out."

I almost have as much disgust over the top three scenario's as I do with Trump.
 
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Adobewan

Well-Known Member
Ok guys, lets not freak out too much. Check out the following:
http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/07/24/poll-republican-party-approval-ratings-lowest-in-decades/

All of this talk here is primarily who is going to win the Republican primary. When it gets to the general election, they will lose regardless who their candidate is, but they will only lose if the Democrats turn out and vote.

The way I see it, if some crazy GOP candidate becomes our next Prez, it is totally the fault of lazy Democrats who say to themselves:

"I'm not going to vote because it won't make a difference anyway."
to
"I'd rather be sitting at Starbucks sipping my latte rather than standing in line for a voting booth."
to
"There's no way that my country is going to vote in some racist GOP candidate. They don't really need my vote to keep him out."

I almost have as much disgust over the top three scenario's as I do with Trump.
I might add all the Bernie Sanders supporters who will hear, "You're throwing your vote away!" enough times to believe it and not go out and vote.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
November 25, 2015 4:04 PM
A Post-Truth Party
I once defined Palinism as Bushism stripped of all its redeeming features. I think that’s still true, but now it’s the entire Republican Party that is Bushism stripped of its redeeming features. It’s interesting to look back at how this unfolded. As I wrote back in 2010, President Bush weaponized the stupid, but it took McCain to deploy it.

What happened, I believe, is that something broke on the right when they were forced to spend September and October of 2008 pretending that it would be okay if Sarah Palin were elected vice-president. The only way to maintain that stance was to jettison all the normal standards we have for holding such a high office. But it also entailed simply insisting that the truth doesn’t matter.

And so, now, seven years down the road, it’s gotten to the point that Republicans have realized that they can say anything they want and just blame media bias if anyone calls them on their lies.

Palin basically invented this is a survival strategy after she fell on her face in her first big interview with Katie Couric. It’s now more than a survival strategy. It’s the Republican Party’s modus operandi.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
To many of you who have no idea who Killer Mike is, he is your favorite rapper's favorite rapper. While he may not have the household name recognition of Kanye or Jay Z, throughout his career, Killer Mike, born Michael Render, has kept a hardline political edge. In fact, he is pretty much known for his distrust of traditional American leaders of all kinds.

aptopix-dem-2016-sanders.jpg
DAVID GOLDMAN/AP
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders sits with rapper Killer Mike at the Busy Bee Cafe in Atlanta.
In great part, that's why having a guy like Bernie Sanders win over the endorsement of Killer Mike actually resonates deeply with hip hop heads around the country. Mike is not the type of dude who throws these endorsements out every election year, but it's actually deeper than that. Killer Mike's endorsement of Bernie Sanders was impassioned, well-reasoned, purposeful, and realistic.
 

grokit

well-worn member
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
As bad as you believe that Bush and the GWB presidency was, it would be little more than the opening act for someone like Trump or Cruz. I suspect we would all be looking back at GWBs presidency as the "good old days". The damage that Trump or Cruz could do is hard to even imagine. Not just to the country, but to the way we are viewed by the world...
 

grokit

well-worn member

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Over the Rainbow

I’m one of those folks who thought Adele was perhaps the most overrated singer around. I absolutely could not understand why she had such a large fanbase, and I was mystified when she won a slew of Grammys for 21 three years ago.

It wasn’t until I heard her recent single “Hello” that I understood why Adele is so popular. The song is the real deal: emotionally sweeping, skillfully written, flawlessly performed. The song was so hypnotizing that I literally had to force myself to stop watching the video after watching it ten consecutive times. I consider it one of the greatest songs ever written, and I feel embarrassed that I previously scorned this singer.

It’s a sign of profound social progress that the video’s depiction of an interracial relationship has generated so little controversy; remember when people hyperventilated over Madonna having a black love interest in 1989’s “Like a Prayer” video? A generation from now, people will wonder why it was considered controversial to have interracial relationships depicted in popular culture.

They will wonder the same thing about same-sex relationships in popular culture. December 9 will mark the tenth anniversary of the release of Brokeback Mountain, Ang Lee’s Oscar-winning romantic drama starring Jake Gyllenhaal and the late Heath Ledger. Remember the great wingnut freakout over that film—a ideological meltdown that allegedly extended into the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences itself? Remember how your right-wing friends and neighbors went on and on about how Hollywood was supposedly glorifying sodomy and deviancy?


The right-wing reaction to Brokeback Mountain was, much like the notorious 2008 McCain-Palin rallies, an early sign of the path that took us to Donald Trump. Conservatives threw a fit over gay cowboys for the same reason they threw a fit over black presidents; they are locked in a 1950s-era vision of the world, and cannot tolerate anything that deviates from that vision. Attacking change is their way of “making America great again.”

The folks who attacked Brokeback Mountain ten years ago still have no shame or regret. They still see Hollywood as the new Gomorrah, perverting young minds with such radical concepts as the notion that gay men and women are people too. They still regard multiculturalism and diversity as sick, dark, radical. They still don’t understand why the rest of us have moved on and have grown up.

We should never forget the hateful voices that attacked Lee, Ledger, Gyllenhaal and Universal Pictures for making Brokeback Mountain. We should also never forget that those hateful voices have lost their fight against progress, against modernity, against reality. We win. They lose.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
That one isn't campaign oriented enough. Have this one... ;)


As climate talks open, many candidates flunk science test

11/30/15 12:48 PM—Updated 11/30/15 01:37 PM

By Steve Benen
Officials from around the world began high-level talks in Paris today, as the United Nations climate change conference kicked off a 10-day gathering intended to combat the intensifying climate crisis. President Obama is on hand and delivered a speech to attendees this morning.

The U.S. leader’s challenges are obvious. For one thing, there’s plenty of international resistance to making any kind of short-term sacrifice to deal with global warming, and given the scope of the crisis, dramatic changes are required. For another, the Obama administration has to deal with the fact that an entire American political party is actively trying to sabotage American officials’ efforts at the Paris gathering.

But there’s also the fact that the president, who’s been laying the groundwork for these talks for quite a while, only has one year remaining in office, and much of the work will have to continue after Obama’s successor is elected. Depending on who that successor is, that could be very good news for our environmental future or very bad news.

MSNBC’s Tony Dokoupil had an interesting report over the holiday weekend on the candidates’ preparedness on the issue.

The Associated Press invited eight climate and biological scientists to grade the scientific accuracy of candidates in both parties. The material included debates, published interviews and tweets. The candidates’ names were not known to the reviewers. As an added protection against bias, the scientists were selected by professional scientific societies.

The grades, which ran from 0 to 100, were mostly abysmal. Texas Sen. Ted Cruz was the strongest and the wrongest, receiving a grade of 6 points for accuracy. All eight evaluators placed Cruz dead last. Michael Mann, a Pennsylvania State University meteorology professor, wrote of Cruz’s statements: “This individual understands less about science (and climate change) than the average kindergartner.”

Of course, with Cruz, it’s often difficult to know whether and when he’s playing a political game. Is he actually ignorant or is he saying foolish things he knows to be wrong in the hopes of winning votes from his party’s right-wing base?
Regardless, if Cruz fared the worst, who fared the best?

I put together this chart showing the results by candidate, with red columns for Republicans and blue columns for Democrats.
11.30.15.jpg
 
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