lwien
Well-Known Member
And it all started when we invaded Iraq, no? Would this clusterfuck have happened if we didn't? No idea, but to me, it sure as hell seems to be the catalyst for all this crap.
The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread
- Thread starter CarolKing
- Start date
And it all started when we invaded Iraq, no? Would this clusterfuck have happened if we didn't? No idea, but to me, it sure as hell seems to be the catalyst for all this crap.
grokit
well-worn member
I would just add that nothing happens by accident, when you have kissinger-esque think tanks leading the way. Chaos serves our agenda quite well, so we created the conditions for isis/isil/daesh to rise
yogoshio
Annoying Libertarian
I think thats a potential argument, but these people were already there, just under different names and affiliations. Also, Isis took many from Al Queda and the Taliban that had broken apart. In my opinion this was caused by a poor exit from the area and a poor understanding of the tribalistic nature of the middle east. Trying to set up a democracy when the dominant religion demands a theocracy, mixed in with the leaving behind of weapons and ammunitions without proper oversight led to this situation, which was under Obama and Hilary's design.
I don't pretend to know how to have done it any better, but definitely leaving weapons (or in the case of Syria giving it to them
) is definitely the Commander in Chiefs reponsibility.
I don't pretend to know how to have done it any better, but definitely leaving weapons (or in the case of Syria giving it to them
) is definitely the Commander in Chiefs reponsibility.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
Oh yeah . . . weren't they great? Not sure if they even still manufacture Methaqualone.LUDES !!!
Speaking of melting your face off look at Time Magazine's new cover . . .
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Silat
When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
Nope. Wrong again. ISIS came about because of the BUSH/CHENEY Project for the New American Century Plan that failed completely when they lied us into war.
When they took out Hussein they opened the region to the extremists like ISIS.
The rise of ISIS can be traced back to the civil war between Shiites and Sunnis in Iraq, sparked by the U.S. invasion, which toppled Saddam Hussein’s regime, said Vali Nasr, the dean of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. “Sunnis in Iraq were not reconciled to losing power ― to the rise of a Shiite government in Iraq,” Nasr said. It was in the subsequent insurgency that Sunnis who went on to join ISIS “honed their ideology and political relevance in the region,” he continued.
And the brilliant Cheney and fiends removed all the Bathists from government and disbanded the military and created a sectarian government. Those disenfranchised bolstered the ranks of the extremist groups and morphed into ISIS.
This whole debacle is on Bush/Cheney and the neocons.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...refused-sign-plan-place-leave-10000-troops-i/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ma-isis_us_57ace92fe4b007c36e4dd7a3?section=&
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Silat
When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
NRA Death Merchants Hit Clinton For Having Secret Service Protection
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/08/nra-death-merchants-hit-clinton-having
And then some past Donald statements:
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/08/nra-death-merchants-hit-clinton-having
And then some past Donald statements:
lwien
Well-Known Member
Yup. They were the best. They were moved to Schedule 1 in 1984, so basically, outlawed in the US.
lwien
Well-Known Member
From Ronald Reagan's daughter, Patti Davis:
To Donald Trump:
I am the daughter of a man who was shot by someone who got his inspiration from a movie, someone who believed if he killed the President the actress from that movie would notice him. Your glib and horrifying comment about "Second Amendment people" was heard around the world. It was heard by sane and decent people who shudder at your fondness for verbal violence. It was heard by your supporters, many of whom gleefully and angrily yell, "Lock her up!" at your rallies. It was heard by the person sitting alone in a room, locked in his own dark fantasies, who sees unbridled violence as a way to make his mark in the world, and is just looking for ideas. Yes, Mr. Trump, words matter. But then you know that, which makes this all even more horrifying.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/ronald-reagans-daughter-blasts-trumps-verbal-violence/story?id=41292972
To Donald Trump:
I am the daughter of a man who was shot by someone who got his inspiration from a movie, someone who believed if he killed the President the actress from that movie would notice him. Your glib and horrifying comment about "Second Amendment people" was heard around the world. It was heard by sane and decent people who shudder at your fondness for verbal violence. It was heard by your supporters, many of whom gleefully and angrily yell, "Lock her up!" at your rallies. It was heard by the person sitting alone in a room, locked in his own dark fantasies, who sees unbridled violence as a way to make his mark in the world, and is just looking for ideas. Yes, Mr. Trump, words matter. But then you know that, which makes this all even more horrifying.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/ronald-reagans-daughter-blasts-trumps-verbal-violence/story?id=41292972
Gunky
Well-Known Member
grokit
well-worn member
An Open Letter to Ivanka Trump from Michael Moore: 'Your Dad Is Not Well'
It's time for an intervention.
Dear Ivanka:
I’m writing to you because your dad is not well.
Every day he continues his spiral downward—and after his call for gun owners to commit acts of violence against Mrs. Clinton, it is clear he needs help, serious help. His comments and behavior have become more and more bizarre and detached from reality. He is in need of an intervention. And I believe only you can conduct it.
He trusts you. He believes in you. Although I don’t know you personally, you seem to be a very smart and together woman. I think he will listen to you. He must because he is now not simply a danger to himself, he has put the next president of the United States in harm's way. He has encouraged and given permission to the unhinged and the deranged to essentially assassinate Hillary Clinton. Her life is now in worse danger than it already was—and should anything happen, that will not only be on his head but also on those closest to him if they stand by and do nothing.
I say this with the utmost kindness, care and concern for you, and I know you will do the right thing. Bring him in, off the road, away from the crowds. Now. Tonight.
And when you do, here is what a good friend of mine, a former counselor and social worker, Jeff Gibbs, suggests that you say to him:
Ivanka, I have faith in you that you can do this. I know I’ve called your dad crazy before, but I was speaking politically, not clinically. This has gone beyond crazy. The entire nation—in fact, the entire world—needs you to step forward and do the courageous thing history will praise you for: the loving act of a brilliant daughter who also loved her beleaguered country enough to say her father wasn’t well and needed help.
Thank you, Ivanka.
Yours,
Michael Moore
Michael Moore is an Academy Award-winning filmmaker and bestselling author.
It's time for an intervention.
Dear Ivanka:
I’m writing to you because your dad is not well.
Every day he continues his spiral downward—and after his call for gun owners to commit acts of violence against Mrs. Clinton, it is clear he needs help, serious help. His comments and behavior have become more and more bizarre and detached from reality. He is in need of an intervention. And I believe only you can conduct it.
He trusts you. He believes in you. Although I don’t know you personally, you seem to be a very smart and together woman. I think he will listen to you. He must because he is now not simply a danger to himself, he has put the next president of the United States in harm's way. He has encouraged and given permission to the unhinged and the deranged to essentially assassinate Hillary Clinton. Her life is now in worse danger than it already was—and should anything happen, that will not only be on his head but also on those closest to him if they stand by and do nothing.
I say this with the utmost kindness, care and concern for you, and I know you will do the right thing. Bring him in, off the road, away from the crowds. Now. Tonight.
And when you do, here is what a good friend of mine, a former counselor and social worker, Jeff Gibbs, suggests that you say to him:
Dad, we need to have a chat. Are you feeling okay? Do you have a minute? Please sit down. Because this isn’t going to be easy. No, I am not pregnant. No, what is going on is… is… I am really, really worried about my father. About you.
Dad, I owe everything to you. You’ve built an empire, a brand and a business for the ages. You have taken care of me, inspired me and, through your example, have made me who I am: a self-confident, honest-to-a-flaw, woman.
But Dad, I am deeply worried. You haven’t been yourself lately. The father I know is not a hater, not someone who encourages violence. Dad, you used to be A LIBERAL. You raised me as a liberal! The Clintons were your friends—Chelsea is one of my best friends! And now you’re joking that Hillary should be assassinated? Really?
Dad, I hate to say this, but you’re making me scared, you’re making my friends scared, and you’re scaring the whole country.
Dad… Dad, sit down! They’ll wait. I am not finished. Don’t get angry. Try to listen.
Yes, I know they love it, the crowd goes wild. But not for YOU. They don’t love YOU. They love the show that you put on. But people who hunger for red meat will turn on you in a minute. No, they don’t love you. I love you. I will always love you. And I see you hurting yourself—and you’re hurting ME, Dad.
Don’t get upset! You’re still the handsomest billionaire I know. I will always love you. Melania will always love you. Vladimir will always love you… OK, maybe that wasn’t funny. But you get my point. This running for president thing is destroying the dad I have known and loved. And honestly, you and I both know you didn’t really want this job to begin with! You just wanted to make a point. OK, well, POINT MADE! You did it! Now, let’s stop and get some help.
I am asking you, right now, to give it up. To leave the race. Let that nice man from Indiana run things. Your place in history is secure. You need to withdraw. Move on, for your sake, for the country’s sake, for my sake.
The man who raised me was the man who, for no charge, built a huge ice rink in Central Park for all the people to use! You struck deals with some of the biggest assholes on the planet in finance and politics and yet remained friends, mostly. You built a family that loves you. I want that dad back! And I worry that, if you don’t stop now, neither you nor the country will ever recover.
There, there, Dad, it’s okay, let it out. Let it out, because I know beneath that gruff, tough, handsome exterior is a little boy who just never got enough love. And that little boy needs some time to find himself again.
Let’s you and I walk out there right now. The cameras are all set up and waiting. You can make up whatever excuse you want. You can blame whomever you want. You’re good at that! I just know this can’t go on, and you know it, too.
Take my hand, let’s end this. And by tomorrow you and I will be sipping martinis on our yacht in the Hamptons with Chelsea and the friends we still have left. I love you, Dad. Let’s do this. That’s right, take my hand, here we go…
Dad, I owe everything to you. You’ve built an empire, a brand and a business for the ages. You have taken care of me, inspired me and, through your example, have made me who I am: a self-confident, honest-to-a-flaw, woman.
But Dad, I am deeply worried. You haven’t been yourself lately. The father I know is not a hater, not someone who encourages violence. Dad, you used to be A LIBERAL. You raised me as a liberal! The Clintons were your friends—Chelsea is one of my best friends! And now you’re joking that Hillary should be assassinated? Really?
Dad, I hate to say this, but you’re making me scared, you’re making my friends scared, and you’re scaring the whole country.
Dad… Dad, sit down! They’ll wait. I am not finished. Don’t get angry. Try to listen.
Yes, I know they love it, the crowd goes wild. But not for YOU. They don’t love YOU. They love the show that you put on. But people who hunger for red meat will turn on you in a minute. No, they don’t love you. I love you. I will always love you. And I see you hurting yourself—and you’re hurting ME, Dad.
Don’t get upset! You’re still the handsomest billionaire I know. I will always love you. Melania will always love you. Vladimir will always love you… OK, maybe that wasn’t funny. But you get my point. This running for president thing is destroying the dad I have known and loved. And honestly, you and I both know you didn’t really want this job to begin with! You just wanted to make a point. OK, well, POINT MADE! You did it! Now, let’s stop and get some help.
I am asking you, right now, to give it up. To leave the race. Let that nice man from Indiana run things. Your place in history is secure. You need to withdraw. Move on, for your sake, for the country’s sake, for my sake.
The man who raised me was the man who, for no charge, built a huge ice rink in Central Park for all the people to use! You struck deals with some of the biggest assholes on the planet in finance and politics and yet remained friends, mostly. You built a family that loves you. I want that dad back! And I worry that, if you don’t stop now, neither you nor the country will ever recover.
There, there, Dad, it’s okay, let it out. Let it out, because I know beneath that gruff, tough, handsome exterior is a little boy who just never got enough love. And that little boy needs some time to find himself again.
Let’s you and I walk out there right now. The cameras are all set up and waiting. You can make up whatever excuse you want. You can blame whomever you want. You’re good at that! I just know this can’t go on, and you know it, too.
Take my hand, let’s end this. And by tomorrow you and I will be sipping martinis on our yacht in the Hamptons with Chelsea and the friends we still have left. I love you, Dad. Let’s do this. That’s right, take my hand, here we go…
Ivanka, I have faith in you that you can do this. I know I’ve called your dad crazy before, but I was speaking politically, not clinically. This has gone beyond crazy. The entire nation—in fact, the entire world—needs you to step forward and do the courageous thing history will praise you for: the loving act of a brilliant daughter who also loved her beleaguered country enough to say her father wasn’t well and needed help.
Thank you, Ivanka.
Yours,
Michael Moore
Michael Moore is an Academy Award-winning filmmaker and bestselling author.
lwien
Well-Known Member
The letter, signed by over 70 Republicans.........
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...rs-urge-priebus-to-cut-off-trump-funding.html
What they are suggesting in that letter could very well come to pass but there's so much damage that has already been done to the GOP and to a bit lesser extent, our country, that it boggles my mind that the GOP didn't do this a long time ago. The GOP has a very good chance of losing the Senate and the Congress along with the Whitehouse. Bottom line......they fucked up. A lot of lawmakers/politicians are going to lose their elections and therefore, their jobs over this and guys like Giuliani, their reputations as well so there is a bit of a cloud in a silver lining here.
btw, that letter linked above is on TOP of the letter from the 50 GOP national security advisors.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...rs-urge-priebus-to-cut-off-trump-funding.html
What they are suggesting in that letter could very well come to pass but there's so much damage that has already been done to the GOP and to a bit lesser extent, our country, that it boggles my mind that the GOP didn't do this a long time ago. The GOP has a very good chance of losing the Senate and the Congress along with the Whitehouse. Bottom line......they fucked up. A lot of lawmakers/politicians are going to lose their elections and therefore, their jobs over this and guys like Giuliani, their reputations as well so there is a bit of a cloud in a silver lining here.
btw, that letter linked above is on TOP of the letter from the 50 GOP national security advisors.
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Silat
When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
More on the rise of ISIS.
The root of ISIS was the firing of the Iraqi armed forces concocted by the dream team of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Bremer.
The resistance to the coalition occupation of Iraq was organized by Baathists.
The purging of the Baathists from government posts was a big reason for the rise of ISIS.
The purge is an important detail, especially since they were replaced with Shiite Iran stooges.
Even though Baathists are secular, they used Islamic motives as a recruiting tool.
Eventually they linked up with al Qaeda, and later developed their own mythology based on recreating the caliphate, aka the Ottoman Empire.
That dream seems to become more elusive as time goes by, although it appears many Sunnis scattered throughout the middle east and elsewhere secretly like the idea.
The real problem isn't to defeat ISIS on the battlefield, it's defeating the mythology, which has found fertile ground among Sunni Arabs who feel mistreated by the west and other powers, including Iran and Russia.
That's why it was important to restore diplomatic relations with Iran, they're the only local power dedicated to thoroughly defeat ISIS. The Persians don't want to see another Arab empire. The US can't defeat ISIS, because their very presence in the region is why ISIS exists.
Trump and his followers are wrong.
Sending more troops would strengthen the ISIS mythology, giving it more legitimacy to exist.
The root of ISIS was the firing of the Iraqi armed forces concocted by the dream team of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Bremer.
The resistance to the coalition occupation of Iraq was organized by Baathists.
The purging of the Baathists from government posts was a big reason for the rise of ISIS.
The purge is an important detail, especially since they were replaced with Shiite Iran stooges.
Even though Baathists are secular, they used Islamic motives as a recruiting tool.
Eventually they linked up with al Qaeda, and later developed their own mythology based on recreating the caliphate, aka the Ottoman Empire.
That dream seems to become more elusive as time goes by, although it appears many Sunnis scattered throughout the middle east and elsewhere secretly like the idea.
The real problem isn't to defeat ISIS on the battlefield, it's defeating the mythology, which has found fertile ground among Sunni Arabs who feel mistreated by the west and other powers, including Iran and Russia.
That's why it was important to restore diplomatic relations with Iran, they're the only local power dedicated to thoroughly defeat ISIS. The Persians don't want to see another Arab empire. The US can't defeat ISIS, because their very presence in the region is why ISIS exists.
Trump and his followers are wrong.
Sending more troops would strengthen the ISIS mythology, giving it more legitimacy to exist.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Parallels with JFK
by Nancy LeTourneau
August 12, 2016 1:50 PM
Rebecca Onion reminds us that this flier was making the rounds in Dallas, Texas in the days before President John F. Kennedy was assassinated.
It is hard to avoid the parallels to what we are witnessing today. The one big difference is that we’re not just hearing that kind of thing from fringe groups – it is coming directly from the Republican presidential nominee.
That prompted me to go back and re-read something Frank Rich wrote back in 2011 titled, “What Killed JFK: The hate that ended his presidency is eerily familiar.”
But if the JFK story has resonance in our era, that is not because it triggers the vaguely noble sentiments of affection, loss, and nostalgia that keepers of the Kennedy flame would like to believe. Even the romantic Broadway musical that bequeathed Camelot its brand is not much revived anymore. What defines the Kennedy legacy today is less the fallen president’s short, often admirable life than the particular strain of virulent hatred that helped bring him down. After JFK was killed, that hate went into only temporary hiding. It has been a growth industry ever since and has been flourishing in the Obama years. There are plenty of comparisons to be made between the two men, but the most telling is the vitriol that engulfed both their presidencies.
One has to wonder if this kind of hatred is endemic to the “American experiment” or if it is something we will eventually overcome. Luckily, it is not embraced by a majority of people in this country. But based on what we have been witnessing over these last 8 years, it is obviously still alive and well in some quarters and is being exploited by a narcissistic bully in this presidential election.
I’ve been thinking lately that I don’t mind the idea that Republicans disagree with President Obama or Hillary Clinton on policy issues related to things like the size of government and the role of this country around the globe. Those are things that we can discuss. What is unacceptable are accusations like the one’s contained in that flier about “treason;” when opponents suggest that Democratic leaders aren’t patriotic and are accused of giving aid and comfort to the “enemy” (no matter how that is defined). That isn’t about political disagreement – it is about hatred being exploited by leaders in order to gain power. I suppose that as long as citizens in this country are willing to be exploited in that way…the hatred will continue.
by Nancy LeTourneau
August 12, 2016 1:50 PM
Rebecca Onion reminds us that this flier was making the rounds in Dallas, Texas in the days before President John F. Kennedy was assassinated.
It is hard to avoid the parallels to what we are witnessing today. The one big difference is that we’re not just hearing that kind of thing from fringe groups – it is coming directly from the Republican presidential nominee.
That prompted me to go back and re-read something Frank Rich wrote back in 2011 titled, “What Killed JFK: The hate that ended his presidency is eerily familiar.”
But if the JFK story has resonance in our era, that is not because it triggers the vaguely noble sentiments of affection, loss, and nostalgia that keepers of the Kennedy flame would like to believe. Even the romantic Broadway musical that bequeathed Camelot its brand is not much revived anymore. What defines the Kennedy legacy today is less the fallen president’s short, often admirable life than the particular strain of virulent hatred that helped bring him down. After JFK was killed, that hate went into only temporary hiding. It has been a growth industry ever since and has been flourishing in the Obama years. There are plenty of comparisons to be made between the two men, but the most telling is the vitriol that engulfed both their presidencies.
One has to wonder if this kind of hatred is endemic to the “American experiment” or if it is something we will eventually overcome. Luckily, it is not embraced by a majority of people in this country. But based on what we have been witnessing over these last 8 years, it is obviously still alive and well in some quarters and is being exploited by a narcissistic bully in this presidential election.
I’ve been thinking lately that I don’t mind the idea that Republicans disagree with President Obama or Hillary Clinton on policy issues related to things like the size of government and the role of this country around the globe. Those are things that we can discuss. What is unacceptable are accusations like the one’s contained in that flier about “treason;” when opponents suggest that Democratic leaders aren’t patriotic and are accused of giving aid and comfort to the “enemy” (no matter how that is defined). That isn’t about political disagreement – it is about hatred being exploited by leaders in order to gain power. I suppose that as long as citizens in this country are willing to be exploited in that way…the hatred will continue.
grokit
well-worn member
Hillary channeling bernie;
Clinton economic speech: anti-Trump, with a dash of Sanders (+video)
Her economic speech Thursday aimed to energize the Democratic left that didn't support her in the primaries, while appealing to middle-class voters, even Republican ones, who reject Trump.
Not just to beat drumpf;
About A Third Of Bernie Sanders’s Supporters Still Aren’t Backing Hillary Clinton
We can see that the convention did help persuade some Sanders voters to switch. But about a third of Sanders’s voters are undecided or still going with a third-party candidate when given the choice.
It's NOT (just) about the economy, stupid(!);
Hillary Clinton’s Embrace of Kissinger Is Inexcusable
Bernie Sanders should call on her to repudiate him as the war criminal he is.
Edited for punctuation; just try and put a semicolon inside parenthesis, it's not possible!
Clinton economic speech: anti-Trump, with a dash of Sanders (+video)
Her economic speech Thursday aimed to energize the Democratic left that didn't support her in the primaries, while appealing to middle-class voters, even Republican ones, who reject Trump.
Not just to beat drumpf;
About A Third Of Bernie Sanders’s Supporters Still Aren’t Backing Hillary Clinton
We can see that the convention did help persuade some Sanders voters to switch. But about a third of Sanders’s voters are undecided or still going with a third-party candidate when given the choice.
It's NOT (just) about the economy, stupid(!);
Hillary Clinton’s Embrace of Kissinger Is Inexcusable
Bernie Sanders should call on her to repudiate him as the war criminal he is.
Edited for punctuation; just try and put a semicolon inside parenthesis, it's not possible!
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gangababa
Well-Known Member
The root of ISIS is in the never-right-minded thinking of the PNAC team that staffed the first Bush administration (names above and many more too).
Their Project for a New American Century (talk about the hubris of big plans, but no planning) wanted to invade Iraq years before the activist Republican Supreme Court Justices destroyed Democracy by deciding the 2000 election.
They encouraged then President Clinton to invade and overthrow a sovereign functioning government (a crime).
They expected (even in 2003) an 'Iraqi Spring' of grassroots democracy to bloom in the weeded soil of a Baathist-less garden of Eden, even as they over-fertilized with too much shit (e.g. Abu Ghraib).
The team obviously never read the Bhagavad Gita and were ignorant of (deliberately ignored) cause and effect and uncontrollable consequences.
Remember the looting immediately after invasion forces occupied Baghdad but (a war crime) ignored policing?
Further, the virulently destructive insanity seen in Sunni radical middle-east jingoists is a direct export of Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism.
That PNAC expected to manage one century is completely confusing considering the centuries of conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran (in previously named iterations); politics long preceding the Prophet and subsequent Shia-Sunni centuries.
Profit for producers of weapons precedes civil society, it seems.
If Trump supporters were honest enough to recognize their ignorance and to use the WWW to seek wisdom, not widgets, they might acknowledge how complicated international affairs and history and politics and diplomacy and wise leadership are.
I know my ignorance, and in that is wisdom.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I think it is very unfortunate, and not well considered, when a President or other world leader only has advisors they agree with, and have no advisors that can counsel other views. You can start with President Lincoln and his "team of rivals". Obama took the same approach, including Republicans in his cabinet.
I have NO problem with Hillary going to Kissinger (or even worse) for prospective and other views. That doesn't mean she has or will act on his advice. But the perspective is very valuable and absolutely useful, no matter how she may decide issues.
grokit
well-worn member
The danger this country—and the world—faces is not fascism but the leveraging of the fear of fascism for more horrible economic policies and more war. As Bill Kristol tweeted, “When Dems are finished running vs Trump’s foreign policy, they’ll be more hawkish than me.”
"Kissinger is a unique monster. He stands not as a bulwark against Donald Trump’s feared recklessness and immorality but as his progenitor. As Richard Nixon’s aide-de-camp, Kissinger helped plan and execute a murderous, illegal foreign policy—in Southeast and South Asia, Southern Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America—as reckless and immoral as anything Trump now portends. Millions died as a result of his actions. Kissinger and Nixon threatened to use nuclear weapons, and, indeed, Kissinger helped inscribe the threat of “limited nuclear war” into doctrine. Kissinger, in the 1970s, not only dug the hole that the greater Middle East finds itself in, but, as an influential cheerleader for both the first Gulf War in 1991 and its 2003 sequel, helped drive the United States into that ditch.
Kissinger’s crimes aren’t just related to covert murder, genocide, and illegal bombing. In 1975, for example, as Gerald Ford’s secretary of state, he helped Union Carbide set up its chemical plant in Bhopal, India, working with the Indian government and helping secure a loan from the Export-Import Bank of the United States to cover a portion of the plant’s construction. Then, after the plant’s 1984 chemical-leak disaster, Kissinger Associates, the consultancy firm he set up after leaving the State Department, represented Union Carbide, helping to broker, in 1989, a $470 million out-of-court settlement for victims of the spill. The payout was widely condemned as paltry in relation to the scale of the disaster: The spill caused nearly 4,000 immediate deaths and exposed another half a million people to toxic gases. Kissinger Associates is a private company—Kissinger famously quit as chair of the 9/11 Commission so he wouldn’t have to reveal his client list—so the fees it extracted from Union Carbide for this service is unknown. But Bhopal is a good example of the way Kissinger, as a private consultant, profited from the work he did as a public servant (for Kissinger’s role in negotiating the settlement, see the 1988 letter obtained by the environmental reporter Rob Edwards, found here; also, see New York Times reports that Kissinger’s firm had an account with Union Carbide).
Kissinger’s role in helping to create today’s immiserating global economy and structural inequality didn’t start with NAFTA. As Gerald Ford’s secretary of state, Kissinger was key to making sure Saudi Arabia’s and, until its revolution, Iran’s growing mountain of petrodollars were recycled through private banks and arms merchants in Germany, the United Kingdom and the United States—undercutting Third World demands that capital be used to fund a more equitable global economy, what was then called a New International Economic Order. Likewise, in Latin America and Eastern Europe, Kissinger Associates profited from what one of its consultants called the “massive sale” of public utilities and industries, a sell-off that, in many countries, was initiated by Kissinger-supported dictators and military regimes (Kissinger’s fudging of the line between public policy and private finance, especially as it relates to the arms trade and petroleum extraction, echoes through many of the controversies of the Clinton Foundation; see David Sirota and Andrew Perez’s reporting, especially “Clinton Foundation Donors Got Weapons Deals from Hillary Clinton’s State Department” and “As Colombian Money Flowed to Clintons, State Department Took No Action to Prevent Labor Violations”). This sell-off was part of the global transformation to what is commonly called “neoliberalism,” and what in this campaign season has come to be known as Clintonism, as opposed to Sanders’s vision of a restored New Deal: the privatization of the world’s political economy and, in the name of “free trade,” its transformation into a series of speculative bubbles, cyanide-spewing open-pit mines, and toxic spills."
more:
https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clintons-embrace-of-kissinger-is-inexcusable/
"Kissinger is a unique monster. He stands not as a bulwark against Donald Trump’s feared recklessness and immorality but as his progenitor. As Richard Nixon’s aide-de-camp, Kissinger helped plan and execute a murderous, illegal foreign policy—in Southeast and South Asia, Southern Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America—as reckless and immoral as anything Trump now portends. Millions died as a result of his actions. Kissinger and Nixon threatened to use nuclear weapons, and, indeed, Kissinger helped inscribe the threat of “limited nuclear war” into doctrine. Kissinger, in the 1970s, not only dug the hole that the greater Middle East finds itself in, but, as an influential cheerleader for both the first Gulf War in 1991 and its 2003 sequel, helped drive the United States into that ditch.
Kissinger’s crimes aren’t just related to covert murder, genocide, and illegal bombing. In 1975, for example, as Gerald Ford’s secretary of state, he helped Union Carbide set up its chemical plant in Bhopal, India, working with the Indian government and helping secure a loan from the Export-Import Bank of the United States to cover a portion of the plant’s construction. Then, after the plant’s 1984 chemical-leak disaster, Kissinger Associates, the consultancy firm he set up after leaving the State Department, represented Union Carbide, helping to broker, in 1989, a $470 million out-of-court settlement for victims of the spill. The payout was widely condemned as paltry in relation to the scale of the disaster: The spill caused nearly 4,000 immediate deaths and exposed another half a million people to toxic gases. Kissinger Associates is a private company—Kissinger famously quit as chair of the 9/11 Commission so he wouldn’t have to reveal his client list—so the fees it extracted from Union Carbide for this service is unknown. But Bhopal is a good example of the way Kissinger, as a private consultant, profited from the work he did as a public servant (for Kissinger’s role in negotiating the settlement, see the 1988 letter obtained by the environmental reporter Rob Edwards, found here; also, see New York Times reports that Kissinger’s firm had an account with Union Carbide).
Kissinger’s role in helping to create today’s immiserating global economy and structural inequality didn’t start with NAFTA. As Gerald Ford’s secretary of state, Kissinger was key to making sure Saudi Arabia’s and, until its revolution, Iran’s growing mountain of petrodollars were recycled through private banks and arms merchants in Germany, the United Kingdom and the United States—undercutting Third World demands that capital be used to fund a more equitable global economy, what was then called a New International Economic Order. Likewise, in Latin America and Eastern Europe, Kissinger Associates profited from what one of its consultants called the “massive sale” of public utilities and industries, a sell-off that, in many countries, was initiated by Kissinger-supported dictators and military regimes (Kissinger’s fudging of the line between public policy and private finance, especially as it relates to the arms trade and petroleum extraction, echoes through many of the controversies of the Clinton Foundation; see David Sirota and Andrew Perez’s reporting, especially “Clinton Foundation Donors Got Weapons Deals from Hillary Clinton’s State Department” and “As Colombian Money Flowed to Clintons, State Department Took No Action to Prevent Labor Violations”). This sell-off was part of the global transformation to what is commonly called “neoliberalism,” and what in this campaign season has come to be known as Clintonism, as opposed to Sanders’s vision of a restored New Deal: the privatization of the world’s political economy and, in the name of “free trade,” its transformation into a series of speculative bubbles, cyanide-spewing open-pit mines, and toxic spills."
more:
https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clintons-embrace-of-kissinger-is-inexcusable/
lwien
Well-Known Member
Pennsylvania is a must win for Trump. Clinton is leading him there by 10 points. Trump says that if he loses, she cheated so this could very well be a preview of what's to come if Trump loses the general election that he says is rigged.
"The only way we can lose, in my opinion -- I really mean this, Pennsylvania -- is if cheating goes on."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/12/politics/donald-trump-pennsylvania-cheating/index.html
"The only way we can lose, in my opinion -- I really mean this, Pennsylvania -- is if cheating goes on."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/12/politics/donald-trump-pennsylvania-cheating/index.html
grokit
well-worn member
He uses "in my opinion" the same way we do here, as a disclaimer for talking out of his ass
lwien
Well-Known Member
He uses "in my opinion" the same way we do here, as a disclaimer for talking out of his ass
Kinda like when he says....."Many people say....", or "I heard that...". It absolves him for taking ANY responsibility whatsoever along with not putting up anything to back up his statements.
"I heard that Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim. Many people say that. I don't know.......it's just what I've heard." He can play that game with any crazy shit that comes into his head. What's totally amazing is that his followers think, "Well, if many people say that, it must be true."
I've lived for 72 years and I have NEVER EVER seen this kind of mass stupidity.......ever.
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Gunky
Well-Known Member
The repubs are squirming pretty bad at this moment. Trumps poll position has taken a dive and in all likelihood will continue to dive, because Trump being Trump, the more people are exposed to him in the context of the presidency, the less they like him. Down ballot repub candidates are trying to figure out which is less damaging to them - throw Trump under a bus or support him (but not too much). So quite a few vulnerable repubs will dump him. Meanwhile Trump will keep saying outrageous things because he can't help himself, so more repubs will pull away, the polls get worse, etc. My guess is when he gets down by 15-20% consistently in the more critical states, Trump will find some reason to pull out. Things will probably get even worse for Trump when the debates occur. He can't change his approach (bullshit and appeals to voters fears and prejudices) but what worked in the republican primaries won't work now.
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ReggieB
Well-Known Member
We use imho because it is exactly that, our humble/honest opinion, not fact and none of try and dress it up as such, at least that's what I think imho.Kinda like when he says....."Many people say....", or "I heard that...". It absolves him for taking ANY responsibility whatsoever along with not putting up anything to back up his statements.
"I heard that Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim. Many people say that. I don't know.......it's just what I've heard." He can play that game with any crazy shit that comes into his head. What's totally amazing is that his followers think, "Well, if many people say that, it must be true."
I've lived for 72 years and I have NEVER EVER seen this kind of mass stupidity.......ever.
@Gunky all I see is angry republicans on tv trying to defend the indefensible time and time again, it's never theirs or their candidates fault, always someone else, barely any that make it on prime time even acknowledge that he's done anything wrong. If they're not doing that, they're attempting to revive a dead horse so they can flog it again, making spurious and tenuous leaps/links. I think those people are just as dangerous as trump as they will still be around after trump is defeated.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I agree. Totally different than what Trump does. As a matter of fact, when using "imho", you are taking ownership of your opinion, while Trump is not taking ownership of anything because he is talking about OTHER peoples opinions. Exactly the opposite.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Trump tells things as a fact then 2 days later tells everyone he was kidding or joking. It's insane.
Just what we need as a president a self proclaimed intertainer. Sometimes tells statement as fact and sometimes it's a joke. It's up to us to figure it out. Trump is playing games with the press and the American people.
He's making fun of the public that doesn't get him. Which is everybody. Even his supporters are scratching their heads.
The RNC is going to need a Trumpsitter at his events. Maybe that's what Reince Priebus was doing yesterday.
Edit
Kristina Pierson Trump's surrogate keeps screwing up with accurate info on CNN. It doesn't make her or Trump look like they know what they are talking about. I wish CNN wouldn't use her as a source.
Just what we need as a president a self proclaimed intertainer. Sometimes tells statement as fact and sometimes it's a joke. It's up to us to figure it out. Trump is playing games with the press and the American people.
He's making fun of the public that doesn't get him. Which is everybody. Even his supporters are scratching their heads.
The RNC is going to need a Trumpsitter at his events. Maybe that's what Reince Priebus was doing yesterday.
Edit
Kristina Pierson Trump's surrogate keeps screwing up with accurate info on CNN. It doesn't make her or Trump look like they know what they are talking about. I wish CNN wouldn't use her as a source.
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