The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[cybrguy]

After reading some of my own posts I feel a need to express something due to my seemingly anti-republican rhetoric in this thread and possibly elsewhere. Even if it doesn't look that way I DO understand that all republicans are not bad people and all republicans do not believe the (tea) party line presented by the current crop of republican leadership. Moderate republicans have been chased out of the party for the most part due to the effort by repub leadership to primary anyone who is not an ideological extremist/purist and to otherwise punish anyone who doesn't fall in line with their extremist agenda. Many have left the party, or hang on in the hope that sanity returns and we can all go back to work. So, among the rank and file there are still many fine people who don't believe or support all the bullshit, but are still republicans.

But, just as it is CRITICAL for moderate Muslims to stand up and INSIST that the way of the jihadists and other fundamental violent extremists IS NOT ISLAM but is a corruption and bastardization of their religion, moderate Republicans NEED TO DO THE SAME. If the crazies like Cruz and Gomert and (dare I say) Trump DON'T represent you, you need to stand up and SAY SO, because THEY are the loudest voices and all that the rest of us hear. Otherwise those of us who want progress and sanity and progressive change have no reason to not lump you in to the crazy pile with those idiots who throw science and reason and even humanity under the bus, crushed by the sheer weight of their perverted world view.

The American political experiment REQUIRES (at least) 2 parties in opposition working through their differences through communication and compromise and cooperation. It CANNOT work with 1 party who wants to govern and one party who only wants to bring the government down and intentionally stop it from functioning. This way is only paralysis and failure. And the costs of this, especially at this time in history, are way too high...

 

[lwien]

This whole extreme right wing tea party Republican thing is nothing new.

Google The John Birch Society and Barry Goldwater.

 

[cybrguy]

Absolutely correct, but it was never so mainstream, or seemingly mainstream as it is today. Other than possibly at the time of the Civil War. Must that be the next step?

I was only 10 in 64, so I don't remember how it felt as I was a child. So, I am going by reading not experience of the time.

 

[CarolKing]

One Democrat governor won't allow Syrian immigrants and that's Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire the rest are all republicans.

You guys have some great posts in this thread, very good info. @cybrguy @Gunky @grokit @His_Highness

 

[grokit]

There are people on the Republican side publicly beginning to wonder, what if they nominate one of these bozos and then Hillary slips on a banana peel? President Trump? Even President Rubio is not a good feeling.

One way for Hillary to neutralize sanders would be to offer him the VP slot, which would also be a great life insurance policy for her once she gets elected. Even though I favor sanders, this scenario may be better for him as well, considering his age. He could just serve one term if he wanted for example. The main thing I worry about for 2016 is democrats underestimating the obama backlash, which could be considerable.

 

[cybrguy]

I am so disgusted by what is coming out of the mouths of the Republican candidates. Especially given the fealty they insist they have with the bible. A good reason to ignore what people SAY they stand for and watch what they do. And one of the WORST of them is a Baptist minister. So much for the path of Jesus...

 

[grokit]

I am so disgusted by what is coming out of the mouths of the Republican candidates. Especially given the fealty they insist they have with the bible. A good reason to ignore what people SAY they stand for and watch what they do. And one of the WORST of them is a Baptist minister. So much for the path of Jesus...

You have to remember, they are simply pandering to a diminished electorate. I feel bad for true conservatives, because there is no more room for that ideology in today's tea party gop.

Case in point, I'm not going to post it but this is what's happening down south:
Just When You Thought The GOP Couldn’t Sink Any Lower….

 

[CarolKing]

Our fundamentalist Christians spew the hate the worst. In the bible it tells folks to love and protect each other. "Be your brothers keeper". I was brought up with a very religious mom so I remember quite a few bible verses. Jesus would be appalled at their actions, they give Christians a bad name. Common people practice what you preach - you bunch of fucking Hippocrates

My sister is a republican and she spews hate like these people. She loves George W Bush and she lives in Texas. I'm glad she lives far away. When we're together we don't talk politics.

 

[cybrguy]

You have to remember, they are simply pandering to a diminished electorate.

Is that supposed to engender sympathy? Give them permission? Be an excuse? (I know you don't think so, grokit)

The more they do these stupid things the more they assure a Democratic victory. I'm hoping they continue so the dems can sweep the election.

Heaven forbid they might try to calm the electorate and encourage them to do the right thing and act like the land of immigrants we are BY DESIGN. Have they no recollection of what MADE this country? Or do they really believe that that was only a good policy then?

 

[lwien]

I would wager that if you ask a typical Republican that if they had their druthers, would they wish that the US was ONLY inhabited by white Christians or inhabited by a multi racial/multi religious population, that they would answer with the former.

Sounds vaguely familiar to the ISIS doctrine, eh? Only the names have changed to protect the innocent.

It's just the other side of the same coin.

The reason why Republicans are saying what they are saying is that they are scared and what REALLY scares the shit out of them is that whites (they) are slowly becoming a minority in this country and that members of organized religions are dwindling. Oh, and we're gonna take their guns away.........

 

[cybrguy]

Nevermind that those ships have sailed and there is no going back. And that the chance of taking anyone's guns away is substantially lower than Trump being made king for life.

 

[Gonzo]

Trump and Carson truly scare me.

I never thought I would hear myself say the words, but I told my wife the other night "I would prefer Ted Cruz as president".


I then felt a little sick inside and had to sit down.

Crazy world we're living in

 

[Gunky]

Check out appearances by Bernie Sanders and Ben Carson on tonight's (tuesday) PBS News Hour. Sanders is right on and succinct as usual. Carson is slippery and evasive and didn't help himself, in my view. He strikes me as a bullshitter. He may be a brain surgeon but he doesn't know squat about being prez.

 

[cybrguy]

I think Trump and Carson would potentially do more damage to the country generally due to their total ignorance of government, but in terms of policy, Cruz scares me just as much and so does Huck. I think Rubio and Bush might do less damage and might hire people to help them that might be more reasonable.

Truth is, they all frighten me enough that I will do all I can to get a Democrat elected, and preferably Hillary. My greatest fear is probably the Supreme Court and the long term damage one of those guys could do.

 

[CarolKing]

All three republicans would be a disaster: Trump, Carson or Cruz. I can't decide which is worse ~ my vote is Cruz would be worse. They are all batshit.

I want to add Chris Christy to my list, he doesn't have a chance IMO. The bridge-gate thing screwed up his chances. Trump is the only one of those choices that wouldnt stop legal cannabis.

 

[grokit]

Rand Paul is the only acceptable republican to me, he's a poor substitute for his father but perhaps more of a realist. Any other gop'er would be much more of a disaster, and maybe the end of America as we know it.

Having said that I think coulter is probably right, at least as far as the republican nomination goes

 

[His_Highness]

The reason why Republicans are saying what they are saying is that they are scared and what REALLY scares the shit out of them is that whites (they) are slowly becoming a minority in this country and that members of organized religions are dwindling. Oh, and we're gonna take their guns away.........

Gotta disagree with white's slowly becoming a minority statement - it's happening pretty fast from my perspective. It looks to me like Latin Americans will be the majority in no time. The irony is the younger Latin Americans don't tend to speak Spanish so we won't have to hear the refrain about assimilation and learning English.

 

[cybrguy]

Before posting this I thought about whether it belongs in this thread and decided in the affirmative because, to a great extent, the President is talking about what the Presidential Candidates are saying, not JUST republicans generally...

----------------------
Obama offers GOP a lesson in what ‘tough’ actually means
11/18/15 08:41 AM—Updated 11/18/15 01:28 PM

By Steve Benen
President Obama has heard the Republican reactions to Friday’s terrorist attacks in Paris, and it seems safe to say he’s unimpressed.

“When candidates say we shouldn’t admit 3-year old-orphans, that’s political posturing,” Obama said at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit in Manila – making a veiled reference to GOP candidate and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. “When people say we should have a religious test, and only Christians, proven Christians, should be admitted, that’s offensive, and contrary to American values.”

He added, taking another jab: “These are the same folks often times that say they’re so tough that just talking to (Russian President Vladimir) Putin or staring down ISIL (ISIS) or using some additional rhetoric will solve the problem – but apparently they’re scared of widows and 3-year-old orphans.”

Obama added, “At first they were worried about the press being too tough on them in the debates. Now they’re worried about three-year-old orphans. That doesn’t sound very tough to me.”

And while these comments were no doubt emotionally satisfying for those who’ve grown tired of watching Republicans try to exploit fear and ignorance to advance their own demagogic agenda, the president’s comments were also constructive on a specific front.

“We are not well served when, in response to a terrorist attack, we descend into fear and panic. We don’t make good decisions if it’s based on hysteria or an exaggeration of risks,” Obama said. “I cannot think of a more potent recruitment tool for ISIL than some of the rhetoric coming out of here in the course of this debate. They’ve been playing on fear to score political points or to advance their campaigns and it’s irresponsible. It needs to stop because the world is watching.”

This wasn’t just empty rhetoric. The point about ISIS “recruitment tools” is of particular importance because it offers American political leaders a timely reminder: if you’re making things easier for ISIS, you’re doing it wrong.

The enemy is not some inscrutable foe with a mysterious worldview. As they’ve made clear many, many times, ISIS leaders want to be described in explicitly religious terms. They want to be characterized as a “state” and an existential threat to the West. They want to turn the West against refugees. ISIS leaders have a narrative – that Western leaders hate their faith – and they’re desperate to have their enemies reinforce that narrative as often, and as enthusiastically, as possible.

And in response, Republicans want to describe ISIS in explicitly religious terms. American conservatives keep describing ISIS as a “caliphate” and an existential threat to the West. The right has turned against refugees. Some Republicans have gone so far as to suggest Christians should explicitly be given preferential treatment over Muslims, effectively providing fodder for the very ISIS narrative the terrorists are eager to push.
Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting for a moment that Republicans are somehow deliberately trying to bolster ISIS’s agenda. That’s absurd; there are no ISIS sympathizers in mainstream American politics.

Rather, the point is that Republicans are inadvertently making things easier for ISIS when they should be doing the opposite. The Washington Post’s Michael Gerson, a former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, went so far yesterday as to argue that American conservatives are “materially undermining the war against terrorism” and making a challenging situation worse.

All our efforts are undermined by declaring Islam itself to be the enemy, and by treating Muslims in the United States, or Muslims in Europe, or Muslims fleeing Islamic State oppression, as a class of suspicious potential jihadists. […]

f U.S. politicians define Islam as the problem and cast aspersions on Muslim populations in the West, they are feeding the Islamic State narrative. They are materially undermining the war against terrorism and complicating the United States’ (already complicated) task in the Middle East.

Vox’s Zack Beauchamp added that turning away Syrian refugees specifically helps ISIS.
ISIS despises Syrian refugees: It sees them as traitors to the caliphate. By leaving, they turn their back on the caliphate. ISIS depicts its territory as a paradise, and fleeing refugees expose that as a lie. But if refugees do make it out, ISIS wants them to be treated badly – the more the West treats them with suspicion and fear, the more it supports ISIS’s narrative of a West that is hostile to Muslims and bolsters ISIS’s efforts to recruit from migrant communities in Europe.
The fewer refugees the West lets in, and the chillier their welcome on arrival, the better for ISIS.

I’m not blind to the complexities of national-security policy in this area, and I’m reluctant to be blithe in over-simplifying matters, but I’d ask U.S. policymakers and candidates to consider a straightforward test:

1. Are you doing exactly what ISIS wants you to do?
2. If the answer is “yes,” stop.

 

[Chill Dude]

I think Rubio and Bush might do less damage and might hire people to help them that might be more reasonable.

I agree with that statement. I'm defiantly a Clinton supporter, but Rubio and Bush would be the best of a crazy bunch. Carson, Trump and Cruz absolutely terrify me. If foreign policy and national security remains a top focus in the election cycle, I think this bodes well for Clinton. I think voters( even moderate republicans and independents) will view her favorably in terms of foreign policy knowledge and relationships with world leaders. Who has the knowledge, experience and judgement to keep us safe? Moderates and independents will give Clinton a hard look IMO.

If Trump, Carson or Cruz got the nomination and somehow got elected I would be very worried. World War 3??

 

[cybrguy]

This won’t help the U.S. look any better: “While American politicians compete in the wake of the Paris terror attacks to see who can most hysterically denounce the possibility of accepting Syrian refugees, French President Francois Hollande said Wednesday that his country will follow through on its pre-attack commitment to take in 30,000 Syrians fleeing that country’s conflict.”

So, do you think the Republican candidates have the capacity for embarrassment? Probably not. What do the French know anyway...

 

[Gunky]

Ted Cruz today announced that he would be laying for Obama behind the cafeteria after school ("Come insult me to my face!"). Five bucks says Obama knocks him down.

 

[TeeJay1952]

If no one is paying attention to you....start a fight!

 

[Chill Dude]

So, do you think the Republican candidates have the capacity for embarrassment? Probably not. What do the French know anyway...

Exactly right..the Right will bash Clinton for her stance on the Syrian refugee issue... Look Clinon is on the same page as those French lefties!! they'll try to call her out as being weak on terrorism.. I think when the dust settles Clinton will have the upper hand.

Having a religion test on the Syrian refugees is the dumbest thing I've heard from the conservatives this week!! That would give ISIS leverage in their propaganda to demonstrate to the middle eastern region that the US has no compassion and is the enemy of all Muslims.

 

[Gunky]

It's amazing, isn't it? Virtually every republican candidate is stepping in doo-doo and it's a totally unforced error. Oh it won't do them any harm with their bigoted base, but neither will it help, since they are all doing it. So they get nothing out of it but come the general all of these stupid statements will come back to haunt somebody...

Jeb Bush has also, on the strength of one terrorist event in Paris and a couple days of reflection, decided to invade Syria with US troops. Um, somebody correct me if I am wrong, but didn't we do something similar to that before? And then after a decade of 'standing up the Iraqi military' and government, the moment we left everything went all to hell in a hand-basket? As Obama has obligingly pointed out, we can invade and take over no sweat. We have an amazing, peerless military. The problem is: what happens after we bomb the shit out of it and roll all over the country in tanks and shoot lots of bad guys (and a number of unlucky good guys)? Occupy the place forever? Jeb! still hasn't learned anything.

 

[CarolKing]

On CNN said that the house moves to block Syrian and Iraq refugees from entering this country.

Trump now wants to possibly have U.S Muslims register with the government. He said he wouldn't rule it out.