The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
lwien said:
We need to have as much hate and fear of a Trump presidency as they have of a Clinton presidency.
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No, sorry, I disagree. I'm not going from hope and change to hate and fear. That is what Trump wants from me, and I am not offering it. I think the Democrats can win this election with positive messages about the future. Yes, a healthy concern and understanding of what a Trump presidency would look like, and reminders that we reap what we sow. But I don't believe that the message needs to be their message turned around. That doesn't serve America. It can't just be about stopping Trump. It has to be what we are heading for, what we want to happen. A safer, fairer, more cooperative country based on hope for the future rather than fear of Trumps worse case America. That's what I think.
lwien said:
That will only happen if the Dems MAKE it happen.
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And don't misunderstand. I'm not saying this isn't true, it IS true. But I don't think we need that negative campaign to do it.
 
J

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
cybrguy said:
And don't misunderstand. I'm not saying this isn't true, it IS true. But I don't think we need that negative campaign to do it.
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I would love to agree with you but fear is one of our most dominate motivators if not THE most dominate motivator. It's built into our survival DNA.

We have to be fully motivated to vote en mass in order to beat Trump and I simply don't think that hope and a positive message of the future can be be enough to fuel that motivation although, I wish from the bottom of my heart that I am wrong on this.
 
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CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
There is a chance that Trump could win. I think it's wise to have that attitude amongst progressives and democrats. Folks need to unite together. I'm with @lwien there is strength in numbers. We can do more together than fractured.

Put the scare in people that The Donald could end up being the president. So dammit get off your sofas and phones and vote. if not registered, get registered in the area where you live. Your life could depend on it. I don't have the attitude that Hillary has it in the bag. She needed someone like Warren, Booker or Sanders on the ticket IMO. If there wasn't all the baggage I wouldn't have that attitude.
 
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GetLeft

GetLeft

Well-Known Member
I'm not thinking an epic loss. That's some wishfulness. The republicans will rally around him and that means that there will be a battle to win. No one's rolling over.

I'm looking forward to next week, because fear mongering is an effective tool. My fourteen year old was watching and following Trumps' 'good guy / bad guy' logic. "He's right about that, isn't he?" I'd have to suggest as a response that it only seems right if one's not really thoughtful about things. Next week, we'll see that one need not rely on fear mongering. That there are folks out there who are a little more thoughtful about things, a little more grounded in reality, and who know how to communicate to others a little more effectively exactly what it is they think, and why.
 
Gunky

Gunky

Well-Known Member
Trump is a dangerous loose cannon who is already beginning to scare the crap out of our allies. Obama has recently sent lots of US soldiers and equipment to the Baltic NATO states to make clear to Putin that we won't accept further aggressive behavior, little green men infiltrating etc against our NATO allies. Trump for his part is helping by suggesting we might not honor our treaty obligations to those members! Apparently he appeals to some people, like those awful delegates (who kind of worry me), so we should not underestimate him or be complacent. Working daily in our favor, of course, is Donald J. Trump. Today he shot himself in the foot by going back to the Ted Cruz brouhaha. This can only take votes away from Trump but he can't help himself. Once the dems start picking at him and his sleazy history of business dealings, with his thin skin he will be unable to resist lashing out and settling more scores... It would be great if Hillary could really get him angry at the debates.

Ivanka has, at times, played the charming sidekick to Trump in his more unsavory business dealings. In 2006, she helped sell spots in a future Baja California condo complex that bore the Trump name. While the Trump organization earned $500,000 for their branding and sales efforts, all the people convinced by her and her father’s promises lost their money when the outside developer failed to build anything. She denied any fault, telling CBS News that her family had “lived up to our obligation under a license agreement.”
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The above story is pretty much standard Trump business arc: Trump walks away with bags of money, the business falls apart and fails, everybody else loses.
 
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yogoshio

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
Joel W. said:
Today's bombshell DNC email leak proves that top Democratic officials conspired to sabotage Bernie Sanders throughout the primary to ensure a win for Hillary Clinton.
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GOP splintering on the outside, DNC splintering on the inside. But historically the Dems are a more forgiving bunch when it comes to detractors. Dems seem to have much more party unity despite the arguing factions. GOP tend to oust naysayers.
 
grokit

grokit

well-worn member
If he gets elected, there will ultimately be a new word to add to our vocabulary: trumpopocolypse :uhh:

The political pendulum will be in full swing this fall, for a wide variety of reasons. Unfortunately a lot of swing voters that voted for hope and change in 2008 have ended up disappointed. Not that it's obama's fault; he is now a scapegoat for those that are looking to make america great again, an equally pointless platitude.

Incremental change doesn't work in a democracy as evenly divided as ours, because the side that wins always undoes the losing side's "progress", and faces opposition getting its own agenda in place. This is why bernie is calling for nothing less than a revolution. Of course, we could always end up with tyrannical despot-in-waiting and a treasonously friendly congress, working under an emergency-suspended constitution.

:science: But that could never happen in a democracy like ours, right?

edit: How's that for fearmongering :o
 
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CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I think we all know why hope and change didn't happen. Obama had good intentions IMO.:bang:

Republicans want us to forget the last 8 years how they blocked Obama at every turn. I'm for one pissed off. I'm not pissed at the Democrats either.

You may want to vote for the other Independant party and the Green Party but we know they can't win. Go with the person you know has a chance in hell.

I'm so angry with what I saw this week with the republican convention. I can't live in America with Trump as president. Last night I was so pissed i told my husband if he votes for Trump I seriously wondered about his thinking process. I told him we could have a nuclear war. i think he is writing in Kasich's name when he votes.

I hope we make it through this presidential election.

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@grokit I am pissed at the DNC. im not happy with the way Bernie was treated. They need to find another chairman of the DNC other than Wasserman Shultz before the next election. When she speaks at the convention I hope she is bood.

I'm sure Bernie was probably asked if he would take the VP spot but he wouldn't take it. He's a proud man and will stand behind his principals. I can tell he's not 100% happy with endorsing Hillary. He doesn't want Trump as the next president.

Sometimes we take the good with the bad unfortunately, That is the goal for most progressives and democrats, not to allow Trump close to the Oval Office. This isn't a normal election with Trump in the mix.
 
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GetLeft

GetLeft

Well-Known Member
grokit said:
those that are looking to make america great again
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I take a little solace in the fact that these guys (white people who gleefully relish and rant and rave about the wonders of the 'america' of the fifties/forties/etc.) are disappearing. As all can plainly see, they're fussing up a storm as they're headed out the door. (Human nature and all.) Even all those farmers for trump folks, and the folks who say they 'just trust him' and they 'know he'll do what's right.' How many of them are there, really? Enough to win an election in 2016? Maybe. Enough to bring 'america' back? Sorry. If it's not gone, it's going. And it won't be coming back. Someone like Jon Stewart needs to smack these folks. Oh wait. He did last night ;)



grokit said:
How's that for fearmongering :o
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Effective.
 
ReggieB

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
wunderkind

wunderkind

.....
grokit said:
This is weird, because the gop put opposition to the tpp trade agreement, as well as support for restoring the glass-stegal banking/investment firewall, into their platform recently. These are a couple of substantive, competitive differences in policy over clinton, and he didn't even bring them up in his fucking speech, which to me goes to the point that he doesn't really want the job. He briefly touched on trade, but didn't mention the tpp, and never brought up bankers/wall street at all.
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Hey just want to point out that he actually does mention the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) beginning at the 53:30 minute mark. You probably missed it, it was a long speech! 75 minutes! :o This is an important issue to a lot of tuned in Trump and Sanders supporters, but I think the average voter isn't really aware of it at this point. Hopefully that will change.
 
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ClearBlueLou

ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
cybrguy said:
After Trump loses in epic fashion, the Republican party is going to have to coalesce in some fashion. There is a pretty good chance, it seems to me, that it will be the people who rejected Trump that end up being the leaders of whatever the new party ends up being. People like Kasich and Cruz and some of the other folks who refuse to get in line behind the Donald (while Romney may be a player, I don't think he will be a leader).

It will be an interesting political science experiment however it turns out.
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The GOP can always FAIL to do so...and the people who have left Trump hanging out on a limb are the same people who have been running the Republican party for the last 40 years, so that is perfectly predictable.... The people we've seen dominating the convention and the party this season are the insurgents, the crazies, the extremists who keep getting packed into Congress as if MORE crazy were a solution to any of our problems (oddly parallel to events during the French Revolution, during which the mobs kept packing the Assembly with ever-more-extreme representatives of ever-more-extreme points of view (which, in passing, is how the orientation of left and right in politics got its origin)).

IOW odds are that there will be NO shift in power from old to new, as the main difference is in willingness to begin shooting, and in acceptable casualty numbers: even if the GOP collapses, ALEC, the US Chamber of Commerce, the multinationals, the hardshell Christian racist "right" and the various vast piles of hereditary wealth would remain in place and the rest of the slow-motion takeover machinery would remain in motion. Of course, the possibility exists for Trump and the Klan and the Joel's Army crowd to roll up US society in a ISIS/Taliban-like wave of single-minded ruthlessness, in which case we're in a civil war whether we recognize it or not.

Short of that complete takeover, lack-of-support-for-Tramp is not going to be much of a badge of honor: the party has shredded itself, and re-coalescence is virtually impossible - even if all participants in the dance agreed to try. The same entrenched positions, the same demands, the same artificial-reality extras, will all be in place, and the various power-bases will likewise remain in play, until we achieve either homeostasis or harmony - or are ultimately defeated.

A kinda famous protest sign (wish I had it to link) said "this shit is fucked up and bullshit"; still the best comment on the state of the political parties in the US.

wunderkind said:
Hey just want to point out that he actually does mention the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) beginning at the 53:30 minute mark. You probably missed it, it was a long speech! 75 minutes! :o This is an important issue to a lot of tuned in Trump and Sanders supporters, but I think the average voter isn't really aware of it at this point. Hopefully that will change.
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have not encountered any 'tuned-in' Trump supporters - I hear more about Agenda 21 than the TPP from them: the common denominator is - I believe - Alex Jones, which is kind of the opposite of being tuned-in...it is also apparently where Tramp gets a lot of his wacko crap, so....
 
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TeeJay1952

TeeJay1952

Well-Known Member
shit-is-fucked-up-bullshit.png

I don't agree, but there you go.
 
His_Highness

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Tim Kaine? Congrats on finding a democrat that might actually appeal a little to the repubs and centrists.

I find myself riding the fence on this one.

He has stated that he has a faith based issue with abortion but is behind a woman's right to choose and has voted as such.

Has also stated that marijuana is a gateway drug :doh:
 
CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I think most of us that have been following the democrats since last summer, it was obvious that the DNC favored Hillary Clinton.
We talked about it at length on this thread.
I think that this will again take a little sparkle off of Hillary.
It will make it harder for her to get the Bernie Sanders voters. They might choose to not vote. The democrats keep shooting themselves in the foot too.

I'm hoping Donald Trump keeps saying crazy stuff so people won't vote for him.
I sure hope he doesn't start acting presidential, all of a sudden.
I'm happy for Twitter - he's definitely addicted to making stupid comments.
 
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