The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I'm angry with the Democratic Party for not giving a larger pool of folks to choose from for president. We basically had two people in the running. It seems like no matter what, the majority of the main stream democrats were going to tie themselves to Hillary Clinton's skirt.

With all the baggage and the hint of untruthfulness we seem to be stuck with our choices. I wish this info would have come out 3 or 4 months ago during the caucuses or primary.

I wish Bernie had a chance.

This FBI probe will hang around like a bad cancer and I'm afraid eat away at the democratic popularity. Voters will choose Trump out of anger. I'm not so sure this is going to to go away anytime soon.

I'm angry with Hillary Clinton for being so ignorant of technology. Who in the hell was advising her? We want our leaders smarter than we are.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Hillary has taken a big blow and trump will spin it hard.
Personally, I don't think it is such a big blow. She has been exonerated by both Justice AND the FBI. Trump can spin it however he likes, he has zero credibility and his opinion is meaningless.

That Bush should never been been reelected goes without argument from me, tho not apparently for a majority of voters in 2004. You can't MAKE people do the right thing, all you can do is convince them with the facts, or whatever you think will move them where you want them. I would love to believe that the facts would be all that one needs, but apparently in this day and age facts no longer hold the sway they should and once did.

Just take a look, for example, at how many Americans believe in angels or believe that the world is only 6000 years old. They just opened up a "museum" in Kentucky that uses that "fact" as the principle truth of their raison d'être. Nevermind that basic science blows that completely out of the water.
 

grokit

well-worn member
Just take a look, for example, at how many Americans believe in angels or believe that the world is only 6000 years old. They just opened up a "museum" in Kentucky that uses that "fact" as the principle truth of their raison d'être. Nevermind that basic science blows that completely out of the water.
My point is that these people vote, and their vote counts just as much as yours or mine.

As far as the fbi exonerating hillary, to me it seems that comey threw her under the bus, then said fuck it by not recommending prosecution, even after he detailed how she broke various laws/statutes. And as far as this case goes, that impromptu meeting with bill surely affects the credibility of the justice department.

:myday:
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
As far as the fbi exonerating hillary, to me it seems that comey threw her under the bus
But that is exactly the thing. Comey DIDN'T throw her under the bus. For him to have done that he would have had to be her ally. He isn't her ally, he is the head of the FBI. He was chosen for that job by the President because he believes that Comey is an honest and knowledgeable public servant, not a compatriot. He's a Republican from the Bush admin, after all. But an honest one. Remember, Comey is the guy who kept (at the time) assistant AG Gonzales and Andy Card, Bush's chief of staff, from trying to force Ashcroft to authorize their illegal wiretapping scheme while he was laying in a hospital bed deathly ill.

Comey is not Clinton's friend, and if he had believed she should be prosecuted, and especially if he though it would succeed on its merits, he would have recommended indictment in a flash. But he WONT play political games, and I admire him for that, as I did when he stopped Gonzales. Not only because I agree with the decisions, but because they were the right decisions made under great pressure.
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
I agree, Comey's repudiation is not that big a deal. Corpus delicti! A crime must have been proven to have occurred before a person can be convicted of committing that crime. Comey says no prosecutable crime was committed. So the FBI is recommending drop the matter completely. But Comey couldn't quite help himself giving his opinion about Clinton's handling of emails: she and her people were extremely careless, etc etc. Dog farts. He had nothing, despite a year of looking into it and deafening cheerleading from the repubs. The supposed classified material appears to be largely chimeric and Comey was simply unable to prove that any damage was done or harm intended. , Thinking the repubs would lionize him, Comey had another little moment in the spotlight where he got to chastise Hillary Clinton (whether it is appropriate for law enforcement to publicly and with their official hat on slam people they have declined to prosecute is a matter for you to decide). Little did he know they were about to crucify him for not recommending prosecution.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
New Senate Bill Would Strip Hillary Clinton’s Security Clearance



New legislation introduced Thursday morning by Republican Sens. Cory Gardner (Colo.) and John Cornyn (Texas) would revoke security clearances from Hillary Clinton and her top aides during her tenure at the State Department.

The bill, coined the TRUST Act, follows FBI director James Comet’s Tuesday announcement that Clinton and her staff “were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.”

Gardner said that the FBI’s decision not to recommend charges has forced Congress to take action.

“The FBI’s investigation into Secretary Clinton’s personal email server confirmed what Americans across the country already know: Secretary Clinton recklessly accessed classified information on an insecure system–establishing a vulnerable and highly desirable target for foreign hackers,” Gardner said. “If the FBI won’t recommend action based on its findings, Congress will. At the very least, Secretary Clinton should not have access to classified information, and our bill makes sure of it.”

Cornyn said Clinton has shown that she can’t be trusted.

“Access to classified information is a tremendous responsibility, and should only be entrusted to those who will treat that information with the care it deserves,” Cornyn said. “When individuals mishandle our country’s most sensitive information they jeopardize national security and shouldn’t be trusted with such an important responsibility.”

House Speaker Paul Ryan and leading lawyers have both argued in the wake of the FBI assessment that Clinton should not be given the classified intelligence briefings that are commonly given to presidential candidates.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced on Wednesday evening that the Justice Department would not pursue charges against Clinton.

Lynch’s involvement in the case has been complicated by the fact that she had a private meeting with former president Bill Clinton in the final week of the FBI’s investigation.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-...ill-would-revoke-clintons-security-clearances

:myday:
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
He had another little moment in the spotlight where he got to chastise Hillary Clinton (whether it is appropriate for law enforcement to publicly and with their official hat on slam people they have declined to prosecute is a matter for you to decide on), thinking the repubs would lionize him. Little did he know they were about to crucify him for not recommending prosecution.
Just like poor Chief Justice Roberts. Republicans have no room for conscience. It is ideology all the way, and if you break with it you are dirt, no matter how much water you carried for them in the past.
New Senate Bill Would Strip Hillary Clinton’s Security Clearance
Good luck getting that passed. Nothing but theater...
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Just because a crime wasn't committed that doesn't mean Hillary made good choices. Past decisions usually predicts future actions. What Comey said was very troubling to me as a democrat. The republicans will have a field day until the election. Trump is a nut case for sure. A lot can happen between now and Nov.

This election season has turned into a real circus. The rest of the World is laughing at us. We have 2 liars and one is crazy and one is trying to keep her head above water. Hillary hasn't addressed the FBIs decision. The police officer's murders gave her an extra day. I'm not sure what she can say. Hillary already said she wished that she hadn't used her own server. She did it and lied about part of it. She could have done major damage to the country's security. Things that can't ever be fixed. Maybe putting many lives in jeopardy because of convenience.

Is she going to say possibly she was just mistaken? Maybe she didn't mean to cause any harm. The plain truth is she did. Harm to our country because folks may vote for Trump instead of her.
A major clusterfuck of great proportions.

Edit yes I mean she lied about some of the emails. She should have said she didn't know for sure, since it involved so many. Hoping that she gave all of them over. The server at home was too risky too. I can't believe everyone thought it was OK. Like the folks that worked under her. The younger folks would have been more computer savvy and know the risks. This wasn't all that long ago either.

Not sure whether she should get a medal? The jury is out on that one. Hillary has done some really great things, one of them health insurance for school children of low income families under 18. Schools are able to help families get signed up for free medical insurance. That was Hillary not Obama Care. This happened back in the late 1990s.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
Besides making us look foolish in the eyes of the world, this also sets a very poor precedent at home.

With hillary not even getting a slap on the wrist for these transgressions/crimes/poor decisions/whatever, what is to stop future high-level cabinet officials from employing private email servers of their own?

Seriously, as the man said; we are either a nation of laws, or we are not :nope:

:myday:
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
People keep saying she lied, she lied about the emails. You mean she said she didn't send or receive stuff marked classified? Because as lies go that was awfully damn near to the truth. Out of tens of thousands of emails they found three that were ostensibly classified and two of those by mistake? Keep in mind as head of the State Department she is one of the very people involved in deciding what is and isn't classified. She's handling a very great deal of classified material. And in all that after laboring for a year, fishing for wrong-doing, the FBI comes up with one email or something? She should get a medal.
 

grokit

well-worn member
Yet the headlines persist. I would add to the info below that there is a fourth lie that I've read about, the claim that there was only one wireless device with access to the email server when in fact there were four. It was in a much better article that concentrated on the legal aspects of the four lies, I can't find it now.

edit: Imo if the dnc doesn't do some emergency vetting at the convention, this election will be entirely negative campaigning and a race to the bottom. Hillary won the "battle", but the scars will never heal and they may cost her the war. Even if she does win, more gridlock and a special prosecutor for starters.

This article features a couple of clips of popular shows, that show what the mainstream is being fed atm.


The Jig Is Up: Even Liberals Are Tired of Hillary’s Lies

The FBI proved that Hillary was a liar. She lied about why she used a private server, she lied about not sending classified information through it, and she lied about handing over all her emails.

Her lies were so obvious that even liberals caught the hint.

James-Comey-Hillary-Clinton.jpg


On The Daily Show, Trevor Noah railed against her lies, yelling, “Did Hillary tell the truth about ANYTHING?”

(link to video)

Here’s an excerpt:

Hillary’s entire campaign has been the idea that she is the responsible candidate, sound judgement, disciplined, dependable. Hillary Clinton is basically the Volkswagen of candidates. She’s the efficient practical choice that’s been in the game for years and now, just like Volkswagen turns out there is a whole lot of [bleep] she’s been hiding from us.


On the Nightly Show, Larry Wilmore had a panel discussion/thumb-sucking ring as his liberal guests tried to come to terms with their corrupt queen’s lies.

(link to video)

“I was leaning towards Hillary because Trump [is] horrible, but now I’m like, UGH,” complained guest Rory Albanese.

Welcome to reality, liberals! Hillary’s lies are only going to get more obvious from here.


http://twitchy.com/twitchys-3839/2016/07/07/the-jig-is-up-even-liberals-are-tired-of-hillarys-lies/

:myday:
 
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Krazy

Well-Known Member
I don't think much of it any time someone uses buzz phrases like "the liberals" or "the conservatives". If you are going to True Scotsman like that please include a bullet pointed check list of your assumed stereotype.

I am currently more disgusted with the R party because of Trump. But full credit to the Ds for lowering their own bar because "Hey, at least she isn't Trump!"

Why do I feel like we are in the movie Moon Over Paradore?
mop-051.jpg
 

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
Not sure it does make you look foolish in the eyes of the world, I think you put too much importance on some aspects of yourselves, unless you meant the republicans looking foolish for having to field donald trump and their attempts to win by any means necessary?

Personally, I'm more worried about the dallas PD using a robot to kill a man, it's one step away from drone usage on US citizens, who knows, it may even have been the first drone death of a us citizen.
 
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Farid

Well-Known Member
Not sure it does make you look foolish in the eyes of the world, I think you put too much importance on some aspects of yourselves, unless you meant the republicans looking foolish for having to field donald trump and their attempts to win by any means necessary?

Personally, I'm more worried about the dallas PD using a robot to kill a man, it's one step away from drone usage on US citizens, who knows, it may even have been the first drone death of a us citizen.

Definitely not the first use of a drone on a US citizen, Anwar Al Awlaki was killed with a drone. Not to mention, this guy was an active shooter, so it's not like the drone was deployed for no reason. I am against unmanned, armed droned being used in regular surveillance, but the surveillance drones they use are not armed.
 
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ReggieB

Well-Known Member
Definitely not the first use of a drone on a US citizen, Anwar Al Awlaki was killed with a drone. Not to mention, this guy was an active shooter, so it's not like the drone was deployed for no reason. I am against unmanned, armed droned being used in regular surveillance, but the surveillance drones they use are not armed.
Sorry, I should have said on US soil, my mistake. If there wasn't a history of collateral damage when using drones aggressively then I probably wouldn't have as much concern but unfortunately that's not the case.
 

Krazy

Well-Known Member
The drone thing reminds me of Edward Snowden in a way. No one with an understanding of tech and politics was surprised at the Snowden "revelations". It was possible so of course the powers that be; national, criminal, and corporate; were doing it.

Remember the AA-12 shotgun autocopter platform from 10 years back?
gun%20005.jpg



Now even a palm of your hand micro drone can be weaponized with a dollop of C-4. IR sensors for body heat combined with swarm software and you have a near future dystopian horror story. All with existing tech.

Culturally we are like the proverbial frog in slowly heating water. At some point not only will the citizens of rich countries become OK with killer robots, they will demand such. And that is no matter who we have as leaders.
 

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
The media are already trying to justify it and you can see the poor logic shining through, the only way to tackle weapons is more weapons.
 
ReggieB,

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Bernie Sanders On Green Party Ticket? Jill Stein Offers To Make Way For Vermont Senator’s Presidential Bid


At a time when Americans are demanding an alternative to the two main presidential candidates, the Green party’s probable presidential candidate has offered Bernie Sanders a chance to continue his bid for the White House.

Jill Stein is expected to be endorsed at the party’s August convention in Houston, with 5 percent of the likely voters supporting her, according to a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll. TheGuardian reported her as saying that “overwhelming” numbers of Sanders supporters would rather vote for the Greens than Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.


“I’ve invited Bernie to sit down explore collaboration — everything is on the table,” she said in the interview. “If he saw that you can’t have a revolutionary campaign in a counter-revolutionary party, he’d be welcomed to the Green party. He could lead the ticket and build a political movement,” Stein added, offering to step aside.

more:
http://www.ibtimes.com/bernie-sande...tein-offers-make-way-vermont-senators-2390239
 

ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
New Senate Bill Would Strip Hillary Clinton’s Security Clearance



New legislation introduced Thursday morning by Republican Sens. Cory Gardner (Colo.) and John Cornyn (Texas) would revoke security clearances from Hillary Clinton and her top aides during her tenure at the State Department.

The bill, coined the TRUST Act, follows FBI director James Comet’s Tuesday announcement that Clinton and her staff “were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.”

Gardner said that the FBI’s decision not to recommend charges has forced Congress to take action.

“The FBI’s investigation into Secretary Clinton’s personal email server confirmed what Americans across the country already know: Secretary Clinton recklessly accessed classified information on an insecure system–establishing a vulnerable and highly desirable target for foreign hackers,” Gardner said. “If the FBI won’t recommend action based on its findings, Congress will. At the very least, Secretary Clinton should not have access to classified information, and our bill makes sure of it.”

Cornyn said Clinton has shown that she can’t be trusted.

“Access to classified information is a tremendous responsibility, and should only be entrusted to those who will treat that information with the care it deserves,” Cornyn said. “When individuals mishandle our country’s most sensitive information they jeopardize national security and shouldn’t be trusted with such an important responsibility.”

House Speaker Paul Ryan and leading lawyers have both argued in the wake of the FBI assessment that Clinton should not be given the classified intelligence briefings that are commonly given to presidential candidates.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced on Wednesday evening that the Justice Department would not pursue charges against Clinton.

Lynch’s involvement in the case has been complicated by the fact that she had a private meeting with former president Bill Clinton in the final week of the FBI’s investigation.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-...ill-would-revoke-clintons-security-clearances

:myday:
Prob'ly not much of a surprise, but Cornyn clearly has no idea what kinds of acts are explicitly excluded by the Constitution - but then, he's a Constitutional scholar, I'm sure, all about the original intent, no?; still I'd think someone would remember that old black gang, bills of attainder:

Article 1, Sec. 9, Clause 3:
"No bills of attainder or ex post facto laws shall be passed."

Why? Because it is the JUDICIAL branch that determines guilt and punishment - NOT the Congress.
Bills of attainder & ex post facto laws have no purpose but to USURP the power of the judiciary by fiat: it would be the flagrant violation of the Constitution that "conservatives" keep announcing they've found in some subtext of Obama's - an even more flagrant violation than Congress' obstinacy in holding the nation and its people hostage (in protest of a black man in THE White House, despite their implausible denials) or the Senate's refusal of their advice and consent to nominees for high appointed office.

These things are power plays that rip at the basic agreements that hold us together as a society, they are wholly toxic to freedom: if individuals - singly or in groups - can be targeted as 'guilty' by LEGISLATION and PUNISHED by legislation that specifically targets them then none of us are safe at all. It was ONE of George 3's specific 'crimes requiring redress' in the Declaration.

That's why we shall not have them. By EXPRESS order of our CHARTER.
 

macbill

Oh No! Mr macbill!!
Staff member
All politicians lie. It's what they do. They don't answer direct questions they don't like. They obfuscate. So we have to decide: given the two candidates, who do you want to have their fingers on the launch buttons of war. Who do you trust more? Trump University? Right.
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
As long as the choice is between an untrustworthy, unlikable politician and a untrustworthy, unlikable, unintelligent, loose cannon of a reality show star.... the democrats are in good shape.

This whole thing blows up if someone well known, reputable and likable joins the fun to take advantage of the best house in a bad neighborhood situation we got ourselves in and..... it could happen.

EDIT: If the reputable and likable politician to be named later is a republican running out of sheer disgust for the presumptive choices.....I don't want to even consider how this plays out.
 
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ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
After a lifetime of being too conservative-libertarian for my radical liberal friends and too radically left for my conservative-libertarian friends, I find the whole vote-Trumpkins-to-protest-Clinton notion to be beyond bizarre: everything I've seen (including the Jessica Williams "focus group" :rolleyes:) convinces me that this is an intentional smear on Sanders supports; 'sokay, it's been going on for most of the primary season, an that's really not the point: the point is, imagining that anyone could be so mad at HRC that they would vote Comb-Over as if there he had real similarity to Sanders is just ...cracked.

It's been a tough season; people say stupid things and say things stupidly when they're angry.
My guess is, anyone who ends up voting for Trump was probably going to vote for him in the first place
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
All politicians lie. It's what they do. They don't answer direct questions they don't like. They obfuscate. So we have to decide: given the two candidates, who do you want to have their fingers on the launch buttons of war. Who do you trust more? Trump University? Right.
Exactly that's why people are fed up and ready to for go this year's election. I've voted in every presidential election and so I'll vote in this one. People that aren't so dedicated feel like they are done dealing with our politicians. Even state politicians that vote for a shitty medical cannabis laws because of the money it will generate. They actually lied to the voters. Fuck all of them!

I would think some of Hillary's fans are really disappointed in her. They expected more of her. I know I did. I'm sad and angry. I'm not a fan but thought she was more honorable than this.:disgust::rant:
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Journey to the Center
by D.R. Tucker
July 9, 2016 11:30 AM

Who knew that Bernie Sanders’s appointees to the Democratic platform committee were into self-mutilation? How else does one explain their willingness to cut off their noses to spite their faces?

I don’t quite understand the logic of trying to force the platform to adopt every last one of the Vermont Senator’s preferred issues, in particular issues that could severely damage the presumptive Democratic nominee in the general election. Particularly eyebrow-raising is the effort to push the platform to promote a fracking ban, as well as a carbon tax:

Hillary Clinton supporters may have given a nod to rival Sen. Bernie Sanders by calling for tougher banking laws and highlighting other positions he’s championed in drafting the Democratic Party’s platform.But their rejection of a carbon tax and a fracking ban has enraged some environmentalists and validated the concerns of some in the Sanders camp that Clinton is too tied to corporate interests to press as hard as they’d like on issues such as climate change…

Clinton’s campaign has said U.S. natural gas production helps reduce greenhouse gas emissions by moving energy use away from coal. She has instead focused on preventing damage attributed to hydraulic fracturing – the controversial process used by natural gas and oil drillers.As for a carbon tax, she said it’s unlikely to pass the Republican Congress.[Sanders platform-committee appointee Bill] McKibben, in an email, said the coming election appeared to be a factor for platform writers. Clinton’s supporters in the group were concerned that environmental protections could hurt her in November in battleground states such as Pennsylvania.Sanders’s appointees cannot calm the concern that if the Democratic platform endorses a ban on fracking, such an endorsement would jeopardize Clinton’s chances of winning fracking-friendly states such as Pennsylvania and Ohio. (God bless New York for banning fracking, but not every state is there yet, unfortunately.) Nor can Sanders’s supporters alleviate the anxiety that if the platform endorses a carbon tax, such an endorsement would imperil the extensive efforts over the past nine years to firm up bipartisan support for this compelling concept by making this policy a politically polarized one.

There is an argument–a very painful one from a progressive perspective, yes, but a real one nonetheless–that in an election that will feature hyper-aggressive efforts to suppress Democratic votes in the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s 2013 gutting of the Voting Rights Act, Clinton must position herself firmly in the center-left, not as a Sanders-style progressive, in order to attract the non-Democratic votes she would need to win the general election. The argument that she must position herself to the left of the 2008 and 2012 Barack Obama cannot survive logical scrutiny.

A boldly progressive Democratic platform might appeal to the sensibilities of Sanders supporters, but there is a real risk that it could repel, for example, the sort of folks who swooned over John McCain in 2000 and Jon Huntsman in 2012. Former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman’s recent suggestion that the Democratic and Republican parties are becoming equally unhinged is annoying, to say the least, but if there are indeed large numbers of voters who buy into that worldview, Clinton cannot, under any circumstances, afford to alienate those voters.

For the foreseeable future, the Democratic Party will be a coalition of progressives and centrists. That’s the very definition of a big tent. It is illogical and dangerous to use the Democratic platform as a way to signal that centrists ought to be forced out of that tent. That’s something former EPA Administrator Carol Browner, a Clinton appointee to the platform committee, understands, especially as it pertains to climate:

[D]ebating the merits of different policy solutions is quite different from setting up a litmus test for what it takes to be “serious” about climate change. And that is what the Sanders campaign and its representatives have done, claiming that the Democratic platform falls short because it does not include their preferred amendments to enact a carbon tax and immediately ban all oil and gas production through hydraulic fracturing.

If we were to accept that a carbon tax and a fracking ban are the only “right” policies, every state that we consider a climate leader would fail the test. California has some of the most ambitious climate targets in the country, with a governor and state legislature that support climate action. But as the pioneering chair of their Air Resources Board, Mary Nichols, told our committee, California uses a range of standards, incentives and other tools to meet its climate targets—because that is what the state’s leaders find most effective. They have decided to regulate fracking, rather than ban it outright. They put a price on carbon, but through a cap-and-trade program, not a carbon tax. Even Sanders’ home state of Vermont does not have a carbon tax.

Browner also notes:

[W]e do face a serious threat to the future of our country and our planet: the possibility that Donald Trump, a man who has said climate change is a hoax, could succeed Barack Obama as president of the United States.

If the final version of the Democratic platform effectively sabotages Clinton’s chances of winning the general election, how exactly does that advance the progressive cause? The noted British philosopher Mick Jagger observed that you can’t always get what you want. Someone should remind Sanders’s appointees on the committee that if you try to get what you want, you may well end up with absolutely nothing.
 
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