TeeJay1952
Well-Known Member
Presidential Pardon to Secretaries of State to clear up murkiness.
The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread
- Thread starter CarolKing
- Start date
lwien
Well-Known Member
Ivanka, his daughter, should run for office one day. She's a great speaker..........better actually than anyone that's run for office this year besides the fact that she's drop dead gorgeous.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Trump continues to Tweet and call Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas. That's a good sign Trump is still going to go about acting like a second grader. Very condescending to Native Americans. He doesn't get it. He's still not acting presidential in the least.
I was thinking that the GOP put him on a leash but maybe he doesn't have the self control even though they are keeping a close eye on him. Let's see if Trump gets pissed and rebels against the republicans for talking bad about him.
He really does need to cancel his Twiiter account, but then we wouldnt be able to hear all these stupid, moronic comments that will get him in trouble.
A meeting with Hillary and Elizabeth Warren this morning. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she might be the VP.
Some Republicans want to stop Trump at the convention. I hope this gets more entertaining. I can't wait. GOP can't find anybody to offer though. The judge statements he was making finally got the republicans really extra worried. Its funny to see them scurrying around trying to figure out how to save the party.
I was thinking that the GOP put him on a leash but maybe he doesn't have the self control even though they are keeping a close eye on him. Let's see if Trump gets pissed and rebels against the republicans for talking bad about him.
He really does need to cancel his Twiiter account, but then we wouldnt be able to hear all these stupid, moronic comments that will get him in trouble.
A meeting with Hillary and Elizabeth Warren this morning. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she might be the VP.
Some Republicans want to stop Trump at the convention. I hope this gets more entertaining. I can't wait. GOP can't find anybody to offer though. The judge statements he was making finally got the republicans really extra worried. Its funny to see them scurrying around trying to figure out how to save the party.
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HellsWindStaff
Dharma Initiate
Someone mentioned Trump and the "silent majority" a few pages back, meant to touch on it, don't think I ever did.
Do you guys think this is true?
I do actually think that there may be a case for that.. I found this article:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/1/monica-crowley-how-donald-trump-is-resurrecting-th/
That kind of touches on it. While I don't fully agree with her idea of the lefts "aim is to sow chaos and violence" I do think there is something kind of to this.
It also helps explain how Trump is able to say ridiculous things and still seemingly has support; are those that support him, could their support be almost a reflection of their disappointment with the political correctness of the world?
Just some thoughts I had. The "silent majority" thing had me thinking.........also my IRL experiences had me thinking. I've had numerous friends/casual acquaintances go out of their way to "sell me" on Sanders OR Clinton (much less Clinton). Just in casual chit chat at a restaurant or if I run into them in town or something....Regardless of the points they've brought up (some I agree some I disagree) I don't seem to have the same experience with Trump supporters.
Do you guys think this is true?
I do actually think that there may be a case for that.. I found this article:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/1/monica-crowley-how-donald-trump-is-resurrecting-th/
That kind of touches on it. While I don't fully agree with her idea of the lefts "aim is to sow chaos and violence" I do think there is something kind of to this.
It also helps explain how Trump is able to say ridiculous things and still seemingly has support; are those that support him, could their support be almost a reflection of their disappointment with the political correctness of the world?
Just some thoughts I had. The "silent majority" thing had me thinking.........also my IRL experiences had me thinking. I've had numerous friends/casual acquaintances go out of their way to "sell me" on Sanders OR Clinton (much less Clinton). Just in casual chit chat at a restaurant or if I run into them in town or something....Regardless of the points they've brought up (some I agree some I disagree) I don't seem to have the same experience with Trump supporters.
neverforget711
Well-Known Member
Little bit. Its like fight club where it is there but not meant to be expressed otherwise . it explain the strength with males as they defer to the charmistic alpha male Tyler Durden fill-in. The democrats ended up alienating white men, that isn't what inclusion and diversity walked in with but nevertheless you see the output of identity politics.
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
My understanding is that prior to Obama formally announcing his support and admiration for Hillary, he met with Bernie. Since Bernie still hasn't officially dropped out I can't help but wonder what that meeting was about. Anyone want to opine on the purpose for Bernie and Obama meeting in advance like that?
Was it just professional courtesy on Obama's part to let Bernie know it was coming? Did Obama ask Bernie to drop out? Would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that meeting.....
Was it just professional courtesy on Obama's part to let Bernie know it was coming? Did Obama ask Bernie to drop out? Would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that meeting.....
thisperson
Ruler of all things person
Your guess is as good as mine.
Just found this.
Just found this.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I think it needs to be done delicately because Hillary is going to need Bernie's supporters. I'm sure that was part of the discussion. If Bernie goes Hillary's way too quickly, he will lose the voters that have been following him.
I think a Trump's presidency should be enough to scare most sane people.
Edit
Yes each to their own. Trump would be an absolute nightmare. We have a choice of bad and horrible. I pick bad.
I think a Trump's presidency should be enough to scare most sane people.
Edit
Yes each to their own. Trump would be an absolute nightmare. We have a choice of bad and horrible. I pick bad.
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I don't think that President Obama would presume to ask Bernie to drop out... that will takes it's course naturally without any urging from anyone, and Bernie knows that better than anyone. I do think it to be a possibility that realism and pragmatism were discussed as going hand in hand with a bid for the vice presidency. This would draw all of Bernie's supporters into Hillary's camp with few abstaining from their vote, and also help to keep Bernie's revolution alive while hopefully serving to keep Hillary somewhat honest.
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cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I don't think the POTUS cares if Bernie drops out. And I think he's right. It really doesn't matter anymore. The general has begun and it is Trump against the world.
As I have said before, a chimpanzee would be a better choice than Trump.
I don't think ANYONE can control him. Even morality. He has no superego. He can't see beyond his own reach.
The GOP has no leash that can hold him. They have nothing he wants but money, and he thinks he can get that without them. So much for that "self funded campaign". As far as his rebelling against the repubs, I think you can count on that.
The President was getting ready to endorse Hillary, and he isn't the kind of guy to do that without letting Bernie know it was coming so he could prepare instead of just reacting. Often when Bernie responds to something he hasn't seen before his response is ... less considered and sometimes not what he means (I think).
I kinda wish Hillery's forces would back off Trump a little until the convention is over. There is still time at the convention to throw out their rules and refuse to make him the nominee, and they could choose someone who might actually win. I don't think that would be a good thing. It would certainly explode the party and probably the city of Cleveland...
Silat
When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
Libertarians = Each state's right to be as bigoted as it wants to be without Federal interference
Some libertarians are for people to be able to marry who they want in a state that grants that right.
It is the rest of their ideology that is suspect. They do not want the federal government involved in protecting civil rights nationally.
Here is their platform from when one of the KOCHS was the Libertarian candidate.
KOCH GAME PLAN which is the plan you hear from most of the GOP leadership. Paul Ryan advocates much of this.
When David Koch ran as the Vice Presidential candidate on the Libertarian ticket this was their platform for that year. It is a manifesto of what David and Charles Koch expect to receive in return for their large investment in American politics.
• We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”
• “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”
• “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”
• “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”
• “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”
• “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
• “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
• “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”
• “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”
• “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”
• “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”
• “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”
• “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”
• “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”
• “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”
• “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”
• “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”
• “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”
• “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”
• “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”
• “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”
• “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”
• “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”
• “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”
• “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”
• “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”
Every single one of these ideas is rooted in John Birch Society dogma that they learned from their antiAmerican government bigot father who was a bigwig in the Bircher movement.
Keep this list handy. Pass it on as often as possible.
You're going to need it in the days to come.
thisperson
Ruler of all things person
I've seen a Bernie speech in congress or the Senate, where he gives that same rundown. Scary.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@thisperson I've never heard Bernie say many of these things on the above post. It's is scary. Some of those things I've heard him say. I wouldn't have supported Bernie if he had said all of that. This sounds like the Tea Party. Except for the separation of church and state.
« Here’s the Best Article Ever on the Fact that Ted Cruz is Literally the First Openly Reconstructionist/Theocracy Candidate to Run for President
Here’s My VIDEO (3 min) Where I “Explain” the DONALD to You »
An open letter to the Republican establishment leadership
February 21, 2016 by Frank Schaeffer 383 Comments
This is just part if the article.
CK
Dear Republicans,
When I was a religious right activist in the 1970s and 1980s. I fondly remember staying with my friends Jack and Joanne Kemp in their home in Washington DC. Jack was the quintessential establishment Republican of that day. He would go on to run as the vice presidential candidate with Bob Dole.
Jack hosted a meeting at the Rayburn House in Washington DC for 50 Congressman and Senators one night in the early 1980s when he presented the film series I produced and directed “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?”.
By the 1990s right wing American politics had moved far away from the kind of conservatism Jack Kemp once represented. Where Jack reached out to minorities and got funding for housing and urban urban development projects, the right wingers in the GOP began to try to undo such things as affirmative action.
Where Jack had close friends in the black community and generally projected an image of tolerance far beyond mere conservative politics, the GOP became more and more about whites only agendas and was increasingly defined by excluding gays and trying to roll back women’s rights.
Jack and I had a mutual friend in William F. Buckley. He visited my father in Switzerland where Mom and Dad had their ministry of L’Abri called by the New York Times “a part seminary and part think tank.”.
I remember having tea with Bill several times. The three of us sat on my father’s chalet balcony discussing the ugliness of the John Birch society that Bill had stood up against. He’d used the National Review magazine to repudiate them. Dad complemented Bill on having “salvaged conservatism” from people Dad and Bill both referred to as “weirdos” and “nut jobs.”
Fred Koch, was a leader of the John Birch Society. These were the people Dad and Bill called weirdos. Bill gave his life to trying to rescue conservatism from these extremists.
Charles Koch followed his father’s footsteps into the John Birch Society in Wichita, Kansas, a hub city for the organization. He purchased and held a “lifetime membership” until he resigned in 1968. The John Birch Society Wichita, bookstore was stocked with attacks on the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, and Earl Warren. And Charles Koch funded the John Birch Society’s promotional campaigns, bought advertising in its magazine, and supported its distribution of right-wing radio shows.
The Koch sons would later revive the spirit of the John Birch society under a new more respectable name: the “Tea Party.”
Given that the Tea Party-dominated Republican Party became the party of the “You Lie!” Obama-obstruction era, the Koch brothers had succeeded in reintroducing the very note of hysterical paranoid racism into American politics. This was what Bill did had worked so hard to repudiate.
Bill would have never said Obama wasn’t a real American, let alone have gone along with the “birther” or “he’s a Muslim” nonsense.
« Here’s the Best Article Ever on the Fact that Ted Cruz is Literally the First Openly Reconstructionist/Theocracy Candidate to Run for President
Here’s My VIDEO (3 min) Where I “Explain” the DONALD to You »
An open letter to the Republican establishment leadership
February 21, 2016 by Frank Schaeffer 383 Comments
This is just part if the article.
CK
Dear Republicans,
When I was a religious right activist in the 1970s and 1980s. I fondly remember staying with my friends Jack and Joanne Kemp in their home in Washington DC. Jack was the quintessential establishment Republican of that day. He would go on to run as the vice presidential candidate with Bob Dole.
Jack hosted a meeting at the Rayburn House in Washington DC for 50 Congressman and Senators one night in the early 1980s when he presented the film series I produced and directed “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?”.
By the 1990s right wing American politics had moved far away from the kind of conservatism Jack Kemp once represented. Where Jack reached out to minorities and got funding for housing and urban urban development projects, the right wingers in the GOP began to try to undo such things as affirmative action.
Where Jack had close friends in the black community and generally projected an image of tolerance far beyond mere conservative politics, the GOP became more and more about whites only agendas and was increasingly defined by excluding gays and trying to roll back women’s rights.
Jack and I had a mutual friend in William F. Buckley. He visited my father in Switzerland where Mom and Dad had their ministry of L’Abri called by the New York Times “a part seminary and part think tank.”.
I remember having tea with Bill several times. The three of us sat on my father’s chalet balcony discussing the ugliness of the John Birch society that Bill had stood up against. He’d used the National Review magazine to repudiate them. Dad complemented Bill on having “salvaged conservatism” from people Dad and Bill both referred to as “weirdos” and “nut jobs.”
Fred Koch, was a leader of the John Birch Society. These were the people Dad and Bill called weirdos. Bill gave his life to trying to rescue conservatism from these extremists.
Charles Koch followed his father’s footsteps into the John Birch Society in Wichita, Kansas, a hub city for the organization. He purchased and held a “lifetime membership” until he resigned in 1968. The John Birch Society Wichita, bookstore was stocked with attacks on the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, and Earl Warren. And Charles Koch funded the John Birch Society’s promotional campaigns, bought advertising in its magazine, and supported its distribution of right-wing radio shows.
The Koch sons would later revive the spirit of the John Birch society under a new more respectable name: the “Tea Party.”
Given that the Tea Party-dominated Republican Party became the party of the “You Lie!” Obama-obstruction era, the Koch brothers had succeeded in reintroducing the very note of hysterical paranoid racism into American politics. This was what Bill did had worked so hard to repudiate.
Bill would have never said Obama wasn’t a real American, let alone have gone along with the “birther” or “he’s a Muslim” nonsense.
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Farid
Well-Known Member
It's funny, the same tired "hold your nose and vote" for somebody you don't like sentiment is just as strong on both sides. So whenever a Hillary supporter gets on my cause for not "holding my nose" and voitng for her, I chuckle and think to myself, that's exactly what's gotten Trumps so far, people holding their nose and voting for him because they see him as the only option against Clinton. I see it in my gun owning friends, who hate Trump but hold their nose and vote for him because of Clinton's anti gun crusade. I see it in my Muslim friends who vote for Trump because they are conservative, despite Trump's anti Muslim rhetoric.
So instead of blaming people like me who did not vote for either shit candidate, maybe blame the mainstream voting masses for forcing you to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
And maybe consider voting Libertarian even if you don't agree with everything they stand for because the issues Johnson and Sanders disagree on have much less an impact on the globe than the issues they agree on. I know a lot of Libertarians who supported Sanders while he was strong, and if Sanders drops out, it would be a huge show of unity if Sanders supporters support Johnson instead of Clinton of Stein. I'm trying to convince my father that since I voted for his candidate, Sanders, in the primary, that if Sanders drops out he should vote for my candidate, Johnson, in the general. He wants to vote for Jill Stein, but my argument is that either vote is a throw away vote. It means more if one candidate can take those numbers and at least show that their cause has momentum. I think Johnson's message is much broader in the sense that it appeals to all Americans, versus Stein's approach of only appealing to the fringe left. If anything that's the one thing that made Sanders special to me. Despite being far left he appealed to the right, much like how Johnson appeals to the left.
So instead of blaming people like me who did not vote for either shit candidate, maybe blame the mainstream voting masses for forcing you to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
And maybe consider voting Libertarian even if you don't agree with everything they stand for because the issues Johnson and Sanders disagree on have much less an impact on the globe than the issues they agree on. I know a lot of Libertarians who supported Sanders while he was strong, and if Sanders drops out, it would be a huge show of unity if Sanders supporters support Johnson instead of Clinton of Stein. I'm trying to convince my father that since I voted for his candidate, Sanders, in the primary, that if Sanders drops out he should vote for my candidate, Johnson, in the general. He wants to vote for Jill Stein, but my argument is that either vote is a throw away vote. It means more if one candidate can take those numbers and at least show that their cause has momentum. I think Johnson's message is much broader in the sense that it appeals to all Americans, versus Stein's approach of only appealing to the fringe left. If anything that's the one thing that made Sanders special to me. Despite being far left he appealed to the right, much like how Johnson appeals to the left.
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Gunky
Well-Known Member
Amazing read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html
Trump made money by bilking investors, stiffing contractors and suppliers, and sucking huge sums out of companies as they went bankrupt. Some of it appears to have been illegal. The big picture is this guy is a total fraud and parasitic asshole.
The whole libertarian thing is a mutant form of republican tax-free, regulation-free, welfare-free, you-are-on-your-own anarchistic future utopia worship. Long term it has no prayer and short term what they want further increases inequality and the gap between rich and poor. In other words, libertarians are the anti-Bernie.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html
Trump made money by bilking investors, stiffing contractors and suppliers, and sucking huge sums out of companies as they went bankrupt. Some of it appears to have been illegal. The big picture is this guy is a total fraud and parasitic asshole.
The whole libertarian thing is a mutant form of republican tax-free, regulation-free, welfare-free, you-are-on-your-own anarchistic future utopia worship. Long term it has no prayer and short term what they want further increases inequality and the gap between rich and poor. In other words, libertarians are the anti-Bernie.
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TeeJay1952
Well-Known Member
In life you cannot control what others do. You do control yourself. If you want to stare at one part of the puzzle and decide on that, do so. But I suggest you step back and look at the big (whole)picture. It may make a difference in your actions, but then again maybe not.
lwien
Well-Known Member
I don't blame you, Farid. I just don't understand it, purely from a logical point of view.
We KNOW that the overwhelming odds are that there will only be two possibilities here to occupy the whitehouse. Why does it not make sense to vote for the lesser of two evils?
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I'm going to be voting for Hillary Clinton the lesser of the 2 evils. Donald Trump is not something our country needs or wants. He puts me a a bad mood every time I see him on TV. I can't imagine having to see him for 4+ years acting like the king of America, being the bigot and racists he is.
I'm hoping Trump doesn't win and he is left feeling I embarrassed and humiliated in the end. Also I hope he goes bankrupt again.
I'm hoping Trump doesn't win and he is left feeling I embarrassed and humiliated in the end. Also I hope he goes bankrupt again.
thisperson
Ruler of all things person
Here's what I meant.
I agree with Gunky on this.
@Farid I would say that if you were feeling the Bern, Jill Stein has more in common with Bernie than Johnson.
Key in Bernie's platform was Universal Healthcare, $15 Min Wage, and extending the k-12 system to public colleges too. I don't think Johnson wants any of those things. Could be wrong, I haven't looked at the Libertarian party since I was 17.
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lwien
Well-Known Member
Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil
And your point is.....?
What I'm getting at is that if you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, the most evil one has a better chance of winning. Why would anyone want that?
The issue, like most issues, is not black and white here but rather shades of gray, eh, or to put it another way, it's not a good or bad choice here, as we would all much prefer, but rather a less bad choice.